Web Site design

Macca206

Im looking to have a website designed for my driving school. I have all the information I want published so its just a case of someone copying and pasting this to a new site. Unfortunately I dont know how so was wondering if anyone knew how much this would cost? Ive got the domain name and hosting so its just the web design that I need. Anyone able to quote me? The site would have 1 main page and 4 sub pages coming off it

aidan_walsh

I'll leave this open so the OP can get ball park figures for what he wants based on previous experience. However, if the OP is looking to solicate a website, I suggest that he look at the Jobs Wanted section of adverts.ie.

Gordon

Try this site for a template.

smdweb

Depending on the type/cost of hosting, the style of site (i.e. if it was based around your company logo and colours or not), and any other features (e.g. booking / email forms) this type of site could cost between €500 and €800. This price also differs between the type of web design company you get to do the work for you.
Look at the portfolio pages of web design companies and see the quality of their work - and get a few estimates from different companies before making your decision (ensure you give them all the information you currently have and full details of what you expect).

Laslo

smdweb wrote: »

this type of site could cost between €500 and €800

I would have said anywhere between €500 and €5,000 depending on who's working on your site (a bedroom Web designer or a creative hot shot of 10 years... someone knocking the site out in Front Page or someone meticulously handcrafting the XHTML/CSS so that it meets accessibility requirements, standards compliance and contains meaningful, semantic markup)

Design takes time. For a site, even a brochure site, to be properly designed, following brand, is going to take a minimum of 2 days and that doesn't include the markup. Anyone who says they can knock out a site for you for €500 is likely going to do your business a serious disservice. Then again, it depends on the size of your business and your budget. Not everyone can afford serious professionals.

smdweb

Very Good Point ! .. nothing worse than a badly designed site.

I was basing my reply on the original post, "...a case of someone copying and pasting this to a new site ..." - the budgetary limits of the original poster would play a part !

Macca206

Yeah its just a standard site.. all I need is for them to get my phone number off it really and to be able to email. The content (which is already written) is more important than the actual design (so long as it looks neat and tidy)

zardette

Macca206 wrote: »

Yeah its just a standard site.. all I need is for them to get my phone number off it really and to be able to email. The content (which is already written) is more important than the actual design (so long as it looks neat and tidy)

never that simple :rolleyes:

you are providing a service and the internet can be as good as listing on the golden pages . For example if someone is looking for a driving school in your area you want to make sure that when they type that into the search engine that find your service! so proper links ...a good business plan for your site is important ...or you may have a section on tips for passing the driving test ...or a link to Rules of the Road so that your website is informative and people visit your site and know of the good quality service that you provide.

here is so more info on that ....
http://www.moregoogletraffic.com/

Z

Macca206

Thanks Ive had a quick look at that site.. its basically ways to increase the number of hits when someone does a google search? For this do i basically pay google a fee or the web designer?

CoNfOuNd

You can pay Google to get advertising space on the side of their search results, but can't pay them for anything related to the search results themselves.

To get a high ranking in the search results your site has to have a good SEO (Search Engine Optimization). Most webdesigners will do some basic work on your sites SEO, such as putting appropriate keywords on your pages so the search engines will find them, but another way to get a higher ranking is to have other sites link to yours. The only way to do this is by putting interesting/informative stories on your site (as zardette suggested) - going beyond the basic contact details.

Laslo

Macca206 wrote: »

Yeah its just a standard site.. all I need is for them to get my phone number off it really and to be able to email. The content (which is already written) is more important than the actual design (so long as it looks neat and tidy)

Well if you're looking to do it on the cheap, I would recommend having a look at some Template Monster templates that you can buy for about $60 or so. Keep in mind though that they're not likely to be accessible, optimised for Google or future-proofed in any way. But it might be a good start while you build your business up.

jhegarty

I think the question is how much will it cost, but how good a site I will get for € x ?

You site can be done (really badly) for €200 by someone who downloaded a pirated copy of frontpage and setup in business .... or €5000 someone who will setup a booking site which hands all your booking and scheduling for you , and spends a week getting the style sheets just right.....


so whats the budget , and we will tell you what that should buy ?

Laslo

jhegarty wrote: »

or €5000 someone who will setup a booking site which hands all your booking and scheduling for you , and spends a week getting the style sheets just right.....

Personally I wouldn't touch an eCommerce site for €5,000. The very minimum I've ever done a brochure site for was about €3,000. Booking engine, CMS', etc. you're talking well up closer to €10,000.

The point I'm trying to make is that the €5,000 I mentioned above was for a professional entry-level site. Not an eCommerce site/booking engine and/or CMS.

BRENSH

My god 10 grand for a website. WOW I never thought they would cost so much. My friend is not a professional webdesigner but he is good at it. Im fairly good at it myself but I would need help.

His site is [snipped].

He would make your site for a very resonable price.

I can build CMS and all that stuff from the ground up. I think you "professionals" charge too much.

You can get soo many free cms online its not even funny.

Here is an example.
[snipped]

EDIT: We're not here to advertise our wares, thanks. Aidan.

DJB

10k is nothing for a site... depending on the functionality... I've done a number for 10k+ and they wouldn't be overly complicated but would need the extra hours put in.

I agree with smdweb. I was actually thinking 500 - 5k depending on who you get. I'd advise that you work out what your budget is and contact a couple of companies about doing the work. Remember, you get what you pay for. The closer the 5k mark you can get, the better! However, that's not always possible due to budgets. If you want a decent presence, you should be looking to be allocating at least 2.5k/3k to this.

I'd suggest you contact www.vitalspark.ie and ask them to quote for it. I believe their rates are very keen and I've only heard good things about their service. [mod: I have no affiliation with vitalspark... just trying to point the guy in the right direction]. Get other quotes in too from around your area. Do a search on google for "web design [your town/city]" and contact a few of them. When you get 3/4 quotes in, you can do a comparison and pick the one with the best portfolio that fits in with your budget (but don't just take anyone... if they don't suit, keep looking).

I hope this helps! Rgds,

Dave

Laslo

BRENSH wrote: »

My god 10 grand for a website. WOW I never thought they would cost so much. My friend is not a professional webdesigner but he is good at it. Im fairly good at it myself but I would need help.

His site is [snipped].

He would make your site for a very resonable price.

I can build CMS and all that stuff from the ground up. I think you "professionals" charge too much.

You can get soo many free cms online its not even funny.

Here is an example.
[snipped]

EDIT: We're not here to advertise our wares, thanks. Aidan.

Welcome to the real world. You say you're not a professional... and it shows. I can only assume that the mods expect you were trying to advertise your wares. Do you have a computer science degree? A qualification in interactive media? If not, you shouldn't be advertising professional Web services.

For a fairly small, data-driven site with CMS. Let's say 4 different templates with however many number of pages being run off Expression Engine (free version) and a contact form... and full design and branding of course as well as proper mark-up and testing. You're talking at least €4,600. Add eCommerce functionality, merchant integration, etc. and you're talking around €6,500 at least. A lot more, depending on exact requirements.

I know this may seem daunting to many clients but there are much cheaper ways of doing it. But pay for what you can afford and don't try to do something like eCommerce or even a CMS on the cheap. A few branded, static templates are better than an attempted Web application build by some idiot cowboy.

Laslo

DJB wrote: »

10k is nothing for a site... depending on the functionality... I've done a number for 10k+ and they wouldn't be overly complicated but would need the extra hours put in.

I've worked on sites with client-determined budgets of over €500k. It's only moronic cowboys like BRENSH above who fail to understand the potential size, complexity and cost of enterprise level Web projects. I would imagine that it's probably down to a lack of any 3rd level education. Not that I have a problem with self-taught folk at all - but you can spot the bandwagon jumping dummies a mile off.

DJB wrote: »

I agree with smdweb. I was actually thinking 500 - 5k depending on who you get. I'd advise that you work out what your budget is and contact a couple of companies about doing the work. Remember, you get what you pay for. The closer the 5k mark you can get, the better! However, that's not always possible due to budgets. If you want a decent presence, you should be looking to be allocating at least 2.5k/3k to this.

I would second that. You could get a static but very well designed and branded site, perhaps with a contact form and marked-up properly for around €3,220 ex VAT.

DJB wrote: »

I'd suggest you contact www.vitalspark.ie and ask them to quote for it. I believe their rates are very keen and I've only heard good things about their service.

I would second the Vitalspark recommendation. If you're looking for a freelancer with less overheads than, say, a Dublin-based agency then I can recommend Ken Stanley. He's a fairly experienced veteran at this stage and has just gone solo (hence the holding page)

DJB wrote: »

Get other quotes in too from around your area. Do a search on google for "web design [your town/city]" and contact a few of them. When you get 3/4 quotes in, you can do a comparison and pick the one with the best portfolio that fits in with your budget (but don't just take anyone... if they don't suit, keep looking).

Precisely, shop around a bit and get some quotes.

BRENSH

Im not advertising anything. Sorry if I ment to. I did not mean to annoy or irritate anyone. I seem to have a habit of doing that. Sorry!!! I can see where you are coming from. It is just that I have a hard time understanding how could it cost so much for a website. Im doing an honours degree in "Computer Engineering" and Im not a cowboy. Fair play to you all in the business. After computer engineering I would do Webdevelopment as an alternative course.

Again I would like to apologize.

Trojan

Hi all,

There is a world of difference between professional web design and amateur design. This is fairly reflected in a huge difference in price and the quality of the final product.

I know the car analogy is somewhat overused, but consider the price difference between say a 1997 Fiat Panda and a 2007 Audi A8 - it's a lot more than twice the price.

However, the flip side is that there are cowboys out there masquerading as professionals, and charging professional-level prices for shoddy workmanship. The trick is to find out how to tell the difference - testimonials (but make sure they're legitimate), recommendations from other companies, friends.

--

Disclosure: We (LogOn.ie) sometimes offer web design as part of our internet marketing services. We quite often put our clients in touch directly with 3rd party web development teams when we are overbooked (which is happily quite often at the moment ).

zardette

one advantage I see of using a company is that they usually have a team of developers. Which means there is someone
1. Designing the code (code behind)
2. Designing the front end - normally a graphic designer
3. A TESTER some one testing the code and the website .... this is one of the most important part. If your webpage doesn't work people will just skip it ....or worse still if your webpage is hard to navigate people will just get frustrated and not use your site.
I seen a webpage with the simplest thing as the wrong phone number !! :eek:
Attention to detail is a must but not all good programmers are good at checking detail ... and it hard to check your own work!

and as for having a computer science degree hmmm not sure it helps that much you learn stuff like design patterns ...... and Object-oriented programming which has it place ...for a webpage what I would look for is a company that understand the requirements of the customer and is easy to work with.
........:cool:

Z

Laslo

BRENSH wrote: »

It is just that I have a hard time understanding how could it cost so much for a website.

When you leave college and join us in the real world, you'll have a better idea. If you start up your own business, you'll wonder where you'll need to recoup the 200+VAT that you spent talking to your Accountant for 60 whole minutes. You'll wonder about how you're going to fund the months that you spent mastering Ruby, Web standards, etc.

This industry isn't a joke (although you'd be forgiven for mistaking it for one) and, as Trojan said, there's a big difference between an amateur and a pro. Their prices vary too.

zardette, there is no advantage to using a larger Web company. I've worked with some of the bigger and more respected ones in Ireland and they don't have a clue and, most of the time, produce utter crap. You're better off getting a team of talented, experienced freelancers together with the appropriate skills required.

Trojan

Just to give some example differences between quality and shoddy design practices. Shoddy, cowboy designers often:

• Create sites that look bad
• Create sites that have broken links
• Create sites with Javascript or image map based navigation only
• Create sites that don't work in anything but IE4 Testing: "Well, it works in IE4 on my machine!"
• Create 100% Flash based websites that have zero search engine footprint or
• Create 100% image based websites with no alt tags (that have zero search engine footprint)
• Use table based layouts, font tags and spacer gifs
• Don't know what SEO is
• Think they know what SEO is and do it wrong (worse)
• Accessibility: "what's that?"
• Way underprice their competion because of their own lack of standards and then slag the professionals off as being "overpriced".
• Create fake testimonials on their website with false endorsements from 3rd parties
• Sell templates as "complete websites"

alanjgrace

Trojan wrote: »

[*]Accessibility: "what's that?"
[/LIST]

You forgot about - putting icons on their webpages to say they are compliant or Valid XHTML 1.0 strict when they arent...link

Trojan

Nice spot, removed If you didn't realise, he's linked to my site's failing validation (it was validating when we added the icon originally - updates broke it - d'oh I really wish Wordpress WYSIWYG generated valid code.

DJB

I hate when that happens!

alanjgrace

They were only small errors but just thought id point it out when i was looking at your site - which looks well by the way.

jhegarty

If you want to know what could be out there, have a read here :http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055156468

msg11

Do it yourself, really, sorry guys, but it really is the only way I like to go about things because, I havent got the money to fork out for that type of stuff, and second well I like learning the code etc...

But I suppose if your the flip side of me then, hummm, I guess. Your allowed pay someone to do it. But 5G ? Bit far fetched.. That and awful amount of money to pump into any part of a buissness, and about these cowboys. I agree there are alot out there, but there are many people who are great coders and do it for a cheap reasonable price like 200euro. Which I cannot see a problem with.

And just vaildated my site... Its valid XHTML 1.0 Strict. Interesting stuff...

alanjgrace

jhegarty wrote: »

If you want to know what could be out there, have a read here :http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055156468

I think it was pretty much agreed towards the end of that post that the OP of that did it as a hoax or a skit so i wouldnt pay too much attention to the site the topic is based around.

forbairt

msg11 wrote: »

Do it yourself, really, sorry guys, but it really is the only way I like to go about things because, I havent got the money to fork out for that type of stuff, and second well I like learning the code etc...

The majority of people don't like learning the code and so on though and to be honest if you're coming from a computer illiterate background you're going to have to make a huge investment in terms of time

Laslo

msg11 wrote: »

there are many people who are great coders and do it for a cheap reasonable price like 200euro

Show me a 'great coder' who'll do you a website for 200 quid. Utter nonsense. This is a profession and to do it right takes years of learning, knowledge and mastery. Don't come on here, completely ignorant, and undermine it. You don't do your children's fillings for them, you let your dentist do it (I hope) - there are qualified professionals in something as 'remedial' as Web development too, believe it or not.

Anyway, you sound like you need to go to Template Monster. Good luck to you.

henbane

Given that someone can make €200 in three shifts in McDonalds, I'm pretty sure I don't want anyone designing my site for the same cash. Why is web design seen as unskilled labour? Any twát can put up a site but design is a real skill. Do you really want your potential customers dealing with a cheap & nasty website?

Sully

I see where a lot of people are coming from when there talking about high prices.. but, from my own experience - you can get professional & SEO friendly sites done at a nice price (not deep into the thousands like some companies). I suppose it does depend on the company though.

I always felt that in Ireland, webdesign can be very expensive (amongst other things). Elsewhere, things can be cheaper.

For this type of site, id be think around 500-1k would be a suitable mark for a few pages with text. If your getting into stuff like shopping carts, content management systems things can get expensive (if the company makes their own - if they use open source, it shouldnt make a huge difference)

Laslo

Sully wrote: »

I see where a lot of people are coming from when there talking about high prices.. but, from my own experience - you can get professional & SEO friendly sites done at a nice price (not deep into the thousands like some companies). I suppose it does depend on the company though.

I'd love to see one of these professional '& SEO friendly' 1k sites. Can you show me a few examples?

Sully

Id like to feel that most of my portfolio are professional and SEO Friendly. Im open to correction, but a number of sources said all is okay.

Neither of my sites have gone above 900 to-date as most of it has been basic work. Iv been told from other companies that im to cheap, but thats entirely my choice.

Laslo

Sully wrote: »

Id like to feel that most of my portfolio are professional and SEO Friendly. Im open to correction, but a number of sources said all is okay.

Neither of my sites have gone above 900 to-date as most of it has been basic work. Iv been told from other companies that im to cheap, but thats entirely my choice.

It is, entirely. If you can afford to bring a professional service at that price then more power to you. I know I can't. My costs are well over 900 by the time I've even outsourced the design (I outsource it to a professional rather than trying to do it myself)

Anyone who 'does websites' on their own - clients beware.

forbairt

Laslo wrote: »

Anyone who 'does websites' on their own - clients beware.

OI!!! I do websites on my own

DJB

Yeah... me too!

[trumpet] Some of us are talented enough to be able to design and code! [/trumpet]

matt-dublin

Laslo wrote: »

It is, entirely. If you can afford to bring a professional service at that price then more power to you. I know I can't. My costs are well over 900 by the time I've even outsourced the design (I outsource it to a professional rather than trying to do it myself)

Anyone who 'does websites' on their own - clients beware.

i does too!

but again it all depends on what the client wants...
for a standard static html site, which validates against w3c and is lightly seo friendly i would charge anywhere between 700 and 1500, but again i would have to take into account the complexity of their request, design and man hours.

But for a CMS wether it be custom built by myself, or joomla dotnetnuke etc we're talking a whole other ballpark. I've seen people paying stupid money for cms systems when they really didn't need one. I think thats where the overpriced designing comes into play.

But saying that, and correct me if i'm wrong, i think most designers now recommend what they think the client should use, wether it be cms or not. I know i certainly do, and if i feel the client needs a CMS, ill suggest one, otherwise i would suggest a static site with a maintanance agreement.

randombar

Definitely agree that there is a big difference between part time and full time developers but at the end of the day it all depends on what your website does and what it offers, i keep going back to the likes of bebo and cringing, it's a horribly put together website but is making millions! I suppose there's exceptions to every rule!

Sully

Well iv managed to sucesfully get a designer and a developer outside of Ireland and a reasnoable price. Which is why I can offer afforadble work.

I tried the route in Ireland, getting staff, but the prices being asked for such simple projects was unbelivable. No PHP or design - just pure HTML/CSS for a few pages going up as far as 5K. Im sorry but thats over pricing.

Although saying that, I have an Irish Designer and an Irish Coder who are reasnoably priced. Not silly teenagers either. The work is done on time, validates and is SEO Friendly. Iv seen the people offering cheap prices, and iv turned them down as the quality of their work was poor. So its a mixed market really.

Laslo

God. A slew of incredibly talented people on here who can design and develop. It'd make you wonder why the quality of Irish websites it utter, utter s**t. :rolleyes:

DJB

Laslo wrote: »

God. A slew of incredibly talented people on here who can design and develop. It'd make you wonder why the quality of Irish websites it utter, utter s**t. :rolleyes:

Cause you're looking at the sites we didn't do!

matt-dublin

DJB wrote: »

Cause you're looking at the sites we didn't do!

seconded!

but really, you should look to these guys: http://webpageireland.com/ apparently they really really know their stuf

Sully

Laslo wrote: »

God. A slew of incredibly talented people on here who can design and develop. It'd make you wonder why the quality of Irish websites it utter, utter s**t. :rolleyes:

Probably because this type of service is expensive in Ireland, so people outsource to those who don't have as good work quality as us.

Just because you can design and develop, does NOT mean your design quality will be poor. You can be talented at both you know!

Laslo

Sully wrote: »

You can be talented at both you know!

You can think you're talented at both but realistically very few are at professional with both disciplines. There are probably plenty of people who think they are... but that's another story.

Sully

Laslo wrote: »

You can think you're talented at both but realistically very few are at professional with both disciplines. There are probably plenty of people who think they are... but that's another story.

I assume this is your experience. Iv found different..

There isnt a huge number, ill admit, but it is possible and there is plenty out there!

Lawdie

matt-dublin wrote: »

but really, you should look to these guys: http://webpageireland.com/ apparently they really really know their stuf

Guys I've looked at both DJBs work and the above and I wouldn't rank either.
If the developers own site is poorly designed how can someone justify hiring them. In fairness to DJB the site was at least somewhat aesthetically appealing but still weakly designed. The webpageireland site appears to have been ported from microsoft word.

Sully a point to note is just because someone is cheaper it does not automatically mean their work is poorer, that the expensive counterpart.

The earlier poster was right, Irish web design has a long way to go!

CoNfOuNd

Lawdie > webpageireland.com shouldn't be taken seriously, and if you are talking about vitalspark, I think they have a good portfolio section on their site to demonstrate the professional work they do. Besides, we don't know what either company price their design work at..

Lawdie

Yes I am a twat.
I missed the facetious comment on them. Sorry.
Its lack of sleep.

DJB

Lawdie wrote: »

Guys I've looked at both DJBs work and the above and I wouldn't rank either.
If the developers own site is poorly designed how can someone justify hiring them. In fairness to DJB the site was at least somewhat aesthetically appealing but still weakly designed. The webpageireland site appears to have been ported from microsoft word.

Sully a point to note is just because someone is cheaper it does not automatically mean their work is poorer, that the expensive counterpart.

The earlier poster was right, Irish web design has a long way to go!

The recommendation of the webpageireland.com was a pisstake I believe!

I'd love to defend myself and my work but I just couldn't be arsed!

Now, where did I leave my copy of frontpage 98... it's around here somewhere!