Irish graduate med schools

Nothingcompares

Can anyone tell if me a graduate from the RCSI med school would be significantly differently trained from a graduate from UL? In other words, is the UL course more geared towards producing GPs and if you had a different type of clinical discipline in mind should you lean towards RCSI?

Or does it matter because all specialist training comes during intern years?

Any other general advice on the graduate programmes or each college's respective merits also appreciated.

Robbiethe3rd

RCSI is better as it has a reputation, that's about it in theory, it won't necessarily gear you towards surgery, although they help out enormously in whatever avenue you want to choose after graduation.

eth0_

iirc they are all following a similar curriculum, and just like with a regular medical degree, you study a bunch of specialties before you graduate. What you want to specialise in after you graduate is up to you.

RCSI is horrendously expensive though..

tallaght01

Medical schools are just a place where people tell you stuff. I very much doubt that there's any measurable difference between them at all. They all teach more info than you'll ever need outwith your specialty anyway

The real learning taks place after graduation.

I would base a choice of medical school purely on the basis of potential for a good social life.

Nothingcompares

eth0_ wrote: »

iirc they are all following a similar curriculum, and just like with a regular medical degree, you study a bunch of specialties before you graduate. What you want to specialise in after you graduate is up to you.

RCSI is horrendously expensive though..

are they not exactly the same for EU students? 12k from the student and 13k top up from government?

I would imagine RCSI would be more competitive to get into but at this stage they both look much more attractive than Poland.

Vorsprung

Well as they say themselves http://www.ul.ie/medicalschool/docs/BMBS_GradEntry08_WEB.pdf here, they will be putting a lot greater emphesis on primary care. 21 weeks of GP seems pretty excessive though!!!

Traumadoc

Is the real reason they were set up was to balance the gender inequality that seems to be developing?

eth0_

I thought it was to stop the large attrition levels of newly qualified doctors leaving the profession?
They think people who already have a degree and life experience under their belt will be more sure that medicine is the career for them, and the 4 year degree makes it more attractive than the 'normal' med degree.

Traumadoc

Not many people leaving medicine, they may leave the country allright, but thats been ongoing for years.
I think that the real reason is the need for doctors, and especially with the working hours directive- which has been ignored because it suits the NCHDs (large overtime pay)and HSE, but legally its a bit of a minefield and will have to be changed once some junior doc decides to take legal action.

tallaght01

I don't think the working time directive has neccesarily been ignored, has it? I was under the impression that Ireland had until 2009 to get the hours down to 48 per week for junior docs. Once that kicks in I don't think anyone will be able to ignore it.

I might even come back home once we're working a 48 hour week.

They're going to have to improve the basic salary pretty dramatically though, if they want any juniors to stay in the country.

Carsinian Thau

From what I've read of both of them, they're prety similar. I'd base the decision as to which place would be easiest to live in. A medical degree from one medschool in Ireland is going to be exactly the same as any other medical degree from any other medschool in Ireland.
It's the work you do after the degree that really matters...

Traumadoc

tallaght01 wrote: »

I don't think the working time directive has neccesarily been ignored, has it? I was under the impression that Ireland had until 2009 to get the hours down to 48 per week for junior docs. Once that kicks in I don't think anyone will be able to ignore it.

I might even come back home once we're working a 48 hour week.

They're going to have to improve the basic salary pretty dramatically though, if they want any juniors to stay in the country.

Most places I have worked seem to ignore the rules.


4.3 Maximum weekly working time Between 1st August 2004 and 31st July 2007, an employer may not allow a doctor to work for more than 58 hours a week, averaged over the reference period described below.

Between 1st August 2007 and 31st July 2009, an employer may not allow a doctor to work for more than 56 hours a week, averaged over the reference period described below.

A 48-hour average working week is due to be introduced from 1st August 2009. Further guidance will be issued at this tim

tallaght01

Traumadoc wrote: »

Most places I have worked seem to ignore the rules.


4.3 Maximum weekly working time Between 1st August 2004 and 31st July 2007, an employer may not allow a doctor to work for more than 58 hours a week, averaged over the reference period described below.

Between 1st August 2007 and 31st July 2009, an employer may not allow a doctor to work for more than 56 hours a week, averaged over the reference period described below.

A 48-hour average working week is due to be introduced from 1st August 2009. Further guidance will be issued at this tim

My impression was that the working time directive hasn't been ignored. I was told it just didn't apply to Ireland, that the govt had negotiated a delay. I've not worked in Ireland for along time, so i don't know if it's true. BUt I almost came home for a neonatal job. I spoke to the consultant in Dublin, and he told me the WTD wasn't being implemented until 2009. So, I said, bollocks to that. I'm not goin back to 72 hour on-calls!

But, what I'm getting at is that the WTD doesn't exist in Ireland, ergot it's not being ignored. But I'm happy to be corrected.

On local level, I agree with you about it being ignored. I mean, in the UK we had a maximum working week of 56 hours. And in theory I'm only rostered for 56 hours a week. Having said that, I've never worked a 56 hour week in my life. We're all just expected to work more hours than we're rostered. In theory, though, it hasn't been "ignored" at a health board level, There are still junior docs in the uk who leave work immediately when their 56 hours are up, and there's nothing anyone can do to stop it. And why should we, in fairness. Maybe we all need to grow some balls and walk out when our pid time is up. Before I left the UK, I was doing at least 20 hours per week unpaid. Happy to report that I left work on the dot of 4pm today in New Zealand though

Traumadoc

!

I had the same problem before I left for Australia I worked 140 hours one week ( 24 hours off!!). I had to cover two collegues who were away.
I did not know what to do when I went to Oz only working 37 hours a week.

Even better was I went part time there only worked 18 hours before overtime kicked in, so I could work 3 shifts and get the same pay as doing 4 when working full time.


Back in Ireland HR are screwing my junior staff, they dont pay overtime for work after 5pm as they are supposed to.
I used to be ripped off the same way(SJH), IMO were useless. I took action myself and got thousands.

http://www.dohc.ie/issues/european_working_time_directive/guidance.pdf?direct=1
What a joke