Who made the first (European) SUV?

peasant · 23-10-2007 12:54pm #1

SUV as in semi-pretend offroad vehicle ...not your good old Landy.

Was it Simca/Talbot/Matra with this?

probably not ...that led a pretty lonely existence and was gone again before the term SUV even appeared.

So, who did?

get yer anoraks

ednwireland · 23-10-2007 1:37pm

i remember those, looks a bit like a discovery not that i'm accusing anyone of anything

G Luxel · 23-10-2007 1:43pm

I think it was probably the Range Rover of I970, but thats off the top of my head. The Worlds first one was by Willys/Jeep with the Grand Wagoneer, built until 1991.

Kali · 23-10-2007 1:43pm

Proper modern-day SUV (as in actually luxurious?) .. I'd go with a 1990 Mercedes G-Class

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_W463

alias no.9 · 23-10-2007 1:48pm

First European SUV - Range Rover

peasant · 23-10-2007 2:03pm

Hmm yeees ...

But Range Rover and Merc G class are still proper off-roaders.

I'm thinking more along the lines of semi-useless "soft roaders" like this one:

:D:D

TomMc · 23-10-2007 2:41pm

Lada have (had) ones for some time now.

& then http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossover_SUV

richie_rvf · 23-10-2007 2:50pm

But that Lada is good off road so is disqualified

What about the original Fiat Panda 4x4??

alias no.9 · 23-10-2007 3:11pm

peasant wrote: »

Hmm yeees ...

But Range Rover and Merc G class are still proper off-roaders.

I'm thinking more along the lines of semi-useless "soft roaders" like this one:

:D:D

I kind of guessed you meant soft roaders but was being a little bit of a pedant. The term SUV really originates from passenger versions of american pick up trucks. Their original raison d'être was to evade strict emissions legislation in the US since they were heavy enough to be classified as light trucks rather than cars, and as such, were alowed to pollute more. The term has evolved or been. abused depending on perspective, to cover just about any car with a raised ride height.

Anyway, enough of the pedantry, thanks for posting that picture of the golf. I saw one on the N6 just west of loughrea, probably 6 years ago or so. It was travelling in the opposite direction so I barely got a glance of it. I thought I was going mad, either that or somebody had way too much spare time on their hands and had modified their golf.

alias no.9 · 23-10-2007 3:12pm

richie_rvf wrote: »

But that Lada is good off road so is disqualified

What about the original Fiat Panda 4x4??

The rancho is older and the panda was surprisingly good on the rough stuff too.

RobAMerc · 23-10-2007 3:14pm

wasn't the Matra Rancho a 2 wheel drive ? I think they were totally useless off road.

I plagued my dad to get one so much he bought me a dinky one - came with a trailer too.

If its not the first SUV I don't know what is - all the Landies and range rovers were never developed as SUV thats why they work off road.

prospect · 23-10-2007 3:37pm

The panda 4x4, particularly the first one, have an excellent off-road reputation.

This is because they are so light, and because the wheels are so close to the four corners of the vehicle, it allows it to climb up and off steep inclines. It is just a pity they haven't stuck a 1.4JTd engine in one of them.

richie_rvf · 23-10-2007 3:38pm

prospect wrote: »

The panda 4x4, particularly the first one, have an excellent off-road reputation.

Actually, now that you mention it - every one I have seen have been off-road

:D:D

prospect · 23-10-2007 3:40pm

richie_rvf wrote: »

Actually, now that you mention it - every one I have seen have been off-road :D:D

:eek:

ba-dumm tshhhh

richie_rvf · 23-10-2007 3:41pm

Sorry - couldn't resist - just been reading the one-liners section!!

Terrontress · 23-10-2007 3:44pm

RobAMerc wrote: »

wasn't the Matra Rancho a 2 wheel drive ? I think they were totally useless off road.

I plagued my dad to get one so much he bought me a dinky one - came with a trailer too.

If its not the first SUV I don't know what is - all the Landies and range rovers were never developed as SUV thats why they work off road.

Did the dinky one have a folding rear seat with a lever down on the underside?

I had one of those!

unkel · 23-10-2007 3:47pm

peasant · 23-10-2007 3:56pm

unkel

I see your Mehari and raise you this:

But all those (including the Rancho) were pre the SUV craze ...so which vehicle actually kicked it off for the masses in the late 90's?

Max_Damage · 23-10-2007 4:56pm

peasant wrote: »

so which vehicle actually kicked it off for the masses in the late 90's?

It was the Hummer H1 if I remember correctly. Arnie Schwarzenegger converted a military Humvee for civilian use. The sheep followed suit.

colm_mcm · 23-10-2007 6:40pm

Mini Moke?

peasant · 23-10-2007 7:16pm

get with it colm ...

what's that two posts further up?

Hagar · 23-10-2007 7:20pm

Unimog.

colm_mcm · 23-10-2007 8:21pm

peasant wrote: »

get with it colm ...

what's that two posts further up?

I didn't recognise it in camoflauge!

meathstevie · 23-10-2007 8:31pm

I think it might have been Citroen with a 4x4 version of the 2CV they built on a very limited scale for the Elf-Acquitaine oil company in North Africa in the fifties. As far as I remember correctly what I read a couple of years ago the basicly powered both axles with seperate 600cc standerd 2CV engines.

meathstevie · 23-10-2007 8:35pm

And let's not forget the German ( vw) kubelwagen from the late 30's and and early 40's. This yoke was widely used by the Nazi military

colm_mcm · 23-10-2007 8:38pm

hardly an SUV then! depends on what they termed 'sport' I suppose.

alias no.9 · 24-10-2007 8:24am

meathstevie wrote: »

I think it might have been Citroen with a 4x4 version of the 2CV they built on a very limited scale for the Elf-Acquitaine oil company in North Africa in the fifties. As far as I remember correctly what I read a couple of years ago the basicly powered both axles with seperate 600cc standerd 2CV engines.

You mean the Citroen 2cv Sahara.

Again, it was fairly capable off road so doesn't really meet the soft roader requirements.

prospect · 24-10-2007 8:28am

Well, the first 4x4 I remember being used soley as a family car was a Daihatsu Fourtrak...

TomMc · 24-10-2007 8:38am

^^^ Suzuki as well, but neither are European!

barryfitz · 24-10-2007 8:40am

The fourtrak was too good offroad to be an SUV

peasant · 24-10-2007 9:04am

So, would it be the jacked up estates like Audi Allroad and Volvo Cross Country then ?

prospect · 24-10-2007 9:36am

How about listing all European SUV's and then deciding which was the first out there..

Alfa Romeo Matta:

Spook_ie · 24-10-2007 10:33am

How about the VW Kommandeurwagen 4x4, as there were only ever 3 ( yes, THREE ) built it must qualify on some terms or other.....

MercMad · 24-10-2007 3:07pm

I plagued my dad to get one so much he bought me a dinky one - came with a trailer too.

.................I had a red Corgi one, well detailed as was the norm for Corgi at the time. I loved it !

I suppose since term is short for Sport Utility Vehicle that would make sense that it was derived from a US pick up utility truck.

So my guess would be for a similar 2WD pick up..................wasn't there a HiLux 2wd, and a similar Mazda thing !

Then again they were hardly "sporty" !

I think in Europe most were actually based on hardcore 4x4 mechanicals. The Frontera Sport was 4x4 but phucking useless off road especially with its standard baloon road tyres !

The Santa Fe was the first "jeep" looking thing with 2wd but surely there was many more before it, I juts cant think of any that were shlte off road. The Suzuki's were pretty good.

BTW it was actually Matra that came up with the whole "Espace" thing, the people carrier, maybe they were pioneers !

prospect · 24-10-2007 3:23pm

MercMad wrote: »

.......

The Frontera Sport was 4x4 but phucking useless off road especially with its standard baloon road tyres !

Was pretty usless on the road too.....

I'd agree with this. It is the earliest European 'SUV' that I can remember, i.e. it is a car disguised as an off-road vehicle.

The problem with a lot of 'SUV's' now days is that some of them are very capable off road, and probably better than a lot of the old credible 4x4's, (the likes of the Land Rover Defender are exceptions).

AsphaltRisin' · 24-10-2007 3:40pm

alias no.9 wrote: »

The rancho is older and the panda was surprisingly good on the rough stuff too.

Ha ha yeah that's quite true.. for a crap car they're actually surprisingly useful.. myself and a friend bought one for 30 pounds old money and it was actually able to drive in far rougher places than we expected. we had some chunky colway off road tyres on it and it certainly did better than any other 1 litre car could have

alias no.9 · 24-10-2007 3:40pm

prospect wrote: »

I'd agree with this. It is the earliest European 'SUV' that I can remember, i.e. it is a car disguised as an off-road vehicle.

The frontera was a badge engineered isuzu, so it was really a japanese design. To call it a car disguised as an off roader is also wrong. It was just as bad on the road as it was off road, if not worse, and also featured a ladder frame chassis with seperate body.

alias no.9 · 24-10-2007 3:48pm

AsphaltRisin' wrote: »

Ha ha yeah that's quite true.. for a crap car they're actually surprisingly useful.. myself and a friend bought one for 30 pounds old money and it was actually able to drive in far rougher places than we expected. we had some chunky colway off road tyres on it and it certainly did better than any other 1 litre car could have

They had an extra low first gear, that let them move up some pretty steep inclines. Second to fifth were geared the same as first to fourth on a four speed box.

MercMad · 25-10-2007 9:45am

alias no.9 wrote: »

The frontera was a badge engineered isuzu, so it was really a japanese design. To call it a car disguised as an off roader is also wrong. It was just as bad on the road as it was off road, if not worse, and also featured a ladder frame chassis with seperate body.

.........yeah thats true !

I think it was called the Rodeo !

Kali wrote:

Proper modern-day SUV (as in actually luxurious?) .. I'd go with a 1990 Mercedes G-Class

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_W463

............but then the W461 was introduced in 1979, okay it wasn't a luxury version, but if thats the criterion then the Range Rover predates it considerably. Also all G-Wagens are formideable off road vehicles .....you know what they say " when your Land Rover gets stuck in the shlte.........tow
it out with a G-Wagen "

zilog_jones · 25-10-2007 2:12pm

MercMad wrote: »

I think it was called the Rodeo !

Nah that was the US name. In Japan it was the Isuzu MU or Mysterious Utility - chronic name for a chronic car

alias no.9 · 25-10-2007 4:15pm

I think the 3 door was the MU and the 5 door the rodeo. It also sold as a honda in the US.

zilog_jones · 26-10-2007 8:47pm

Nah, the 5 door was the MU Wizard - even worse!

Rodeo was US Isuzu name - it was also sold as the Honda Passport there.

colm_mcm · 26-10-2007 8:56pm

zilog_jones wrote: »

In Japan it was the Isuzu MU or Mysterious Utility - chronic name for a chronic car

Some Japanese cars have bizzare initialed names:

Mitsubishi FTO (Fresh Touring Orginisation)
Toyota RAV4 (Recreational Active Vehicle)
Honda HR-V (Hybrid Recreation Vehicle)
Honda CR-V (Comfortable Runabout Vehicle)
Toyota MR2 (Midship Runabout)
Honda CRX (Compact Renaissance)

Max_Damage · 27-10-2007 9:19am

Toyota MR2 (Midship Runabout)

WTF?

zilog_jones · 27-10-2007 8:48pm

Midship is another term for mid-engine - seems to be only used in Japan these days. The Honda Beat was subtitled "Midship Amusement". Japan is silly.

E92 · 27-10-2007 9:22pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

Some Japanese cars have bizzare initialed names:

Mitsubishi FTO (Fresh Touring Orginisation)
Toyota RAV4 (Recreational Active Vehicle)
Honda HR-V (Hybrid Recreation Vehicle)
Honda CR-V (Comfortable Runabout Vehicle)
Toyota MR2 (Midship Runabout)
Honda CRX (Compact Renaissance)

HR-V stood for High Ride Vehicle in Japan! But yeah it was what you said it was for Europe. And it was Compact Recreational Vehicle for the UK(and therefore Ireland)!

The worst acronoym is without a doubt MPV as in Mazda MPV. Talk about stating the obvious!

martin1016 · 29-10-2007 11:04am

I think the Mercedes ML was the start of the luxury / D4 / chelsea tractor style market. The ML kicked the SUV into the trendy market away from the hardcore off roading set like the Landrover, Range Rover, Patrol, Landcruiser etc types