Archbishop's wife converts to Catholicism

Michael G

The wife of a Church of Ireland Archbishop has converted to Catholicism (see here). She is of course to be warmly welcomed, and the reasons for her conversion are private, but I can't help wondering about it. There must be extraordinary spiritual and intellectual strength behind it. She has obviously concluded that the Catholic Church has essential qualities which the Church of Ireland does not, such as the Apostolic Succession and valid sacraments. I can't believe that the vapid Catholicism-lite of the Irish church had much to do with it (they prefer to call themselves Christians and play down the separate Catholic identity). She must have thought this out for herself. What a remarkable woman.

JimiTime

Michael G wrote: »

The wife of a Church of Ireland Archbishop has converted to Catholicism (see here). She is of course to be warmly welcomed, and the reasons for her conversion are private, but I can't help wondering about it. There must be extraordinary spiritual and intellectual strength behind it.

Yeh, twas a bit of a mad story. I think the Archbishop deserves a mention for his reaction to it also. Does make you wonder.

She has obviously concluded that the Catholic Church has essential qualities which the Church of Ireland does not, such as the Apostolic Succession and valid sacraments.

I'd just like to bring attention to this for anyone who thinks the RCC gets a rough deal on these boards. I think this is quite typical of RC posters. I don't mind it as such, but don't go whinging if someone speaks against the RCC. You guys dish it out yourselves!

BrianCalgary

Your post does a good job of not contradiction, but going back on itself.

First here you say it is a private affair for her reasons:

Michael G wrote: »

The wife of a Church of Ireland Archbishop has converted to Catholicism (see here). She is of course to be warmly welcomed, and the reasons for her conversion are private, but I can't help wondering about it..

Then here you go on to give reasons why she converted.

Michael G wrote: »

There must be extraordinary spiritual and intellectual strength behind it. She has obviously concluded that the Catholic Church has essential qualities which the Church of Ireland does not, such as the Apostolic Succession and valid sacraments. I can't believe that the vapid Catholicism-lite of the Irish church had much to do with it (they prefer to call themselves Christians and play down the separate Catholic identity). She must have thought this out for herself. What a remarkable woman.

Bottom line: you haven't a clue why she did.

robindch

I'm with Brian on this one -- while you're ok to conclude fairly safely that she must have decided that the catholic church was the right one after all, you're way out on a limb to say that this required amazing spiritual or intellectual strength. And when I hear of switches like this, I'm reminded of what quite a few posters here have said, which is that people should look around and find a church that they like. So I'm wondering if rather than having these amazing qualities, she simply wasn't happy with what she felt in the CofI and looked around and picked the catholic church?

What I'd like to understand in all of this is the catholic bishop's reported writing of a "personal letter to all his priests ahead of a diocese meeting today in Westport alerting them of the news". Sounds like gloating to me, but perhaps there's another explanation?

PDN

robindch wrote: »

What I'd like to understand in all of this is the catholic bishop's reported writing of a "personal letter to all his priests ahead of a diocese meeting today in Westport alerting them of the news". Sounds like gloating to me, but perhaps there's another explanation?

I would hope he was just asking them to handle the matter sensitively.

As for this woman swapping one denomination to another, fair play to her. I think it is extremely healthy for people to belong to a religion or denomination as a matter of choice rather than due to an accident of birth. If Catholicism is what floats her boat then so be it.

philologos

It's not the Archbishop. The Bishop of Tuam's wife, according to the link you gave.

Michael G

JimiTime wrote: »

I think this is quite typical of RC posters. I don't mind it as such, but don't go whinging if someone speaks against the RCC. You guys dish it out yourselves!

What is typical of RC posters? And you certainly won't find me whingeing; I have no problem with robust debate.

Because the Catholic church in Ireland is (mostly) so wet, with priests trying as far as possible to play down what is distinctive about the Faith, I was wondering what led this woman to conclude that she should convert.

As a troublesome right-wing Papist I don't recognise any validity in ideas like "finding the church that suits you" or "swapping denominations". They are not all equivalent. I am speculating that she has come to the same conclusion.

orestes

Christmas dinner could get interesting in that house!

JimiTime

Michael G wrote: »

What is typical of RC posters?

I already explained. Perching yourself on high. I also said that I didn't really mind that so much, but then to complain when someone speaks against catholic doctrine, crying foul. Maybe you haven't cried foul, but others have that have had a similar stance to yourself.

Capt'n Midnight

Have I got this straight ?

Catholic clergy can't marry, but catholics can marry clergy of other religions.

BrianCalgary

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Have I got this straight ?

Catholic clergy can't marry, but catholics can marry clergy of other religions.

From what I understand the Catholic Church does give dispensation in this type of case. I think even that if the Bishop wished to convert he could be welcomed as a priest and maintain his conjugal relationship with his current wife.

Mrs. MacGyver

As a member of the Church of Ireland myself I think the womans choice was correct for her. She must have wrangled with her conscience a great deal. She is a strong woman who made the right life choice for herself after much deliberation. i'm not going to question why she did it but accept that she found her own path to God. It's not an issue about which is the 'right' or 'wrong' religion.

Michael G

Mrs. MacGyver wrote: »

It's not an issue about which is the 'right' or 'wrong' religion.

We could all be getting into a debate which might turn acrimonious, unnecessarily. Whether there is a "right" religion or not, only God knows. Protestants think we Catholics have added extra bits that are only made up; we think Protestants have bits missing. We both think we are right. Jews and Muslims think both of us have added made-up bits; and for the most part they hate one another.

Every one of us, however, believes that his or her faith is complete, and every one of us believes that the others haven't got the full picture or have extraneous bits in theirs.

JimiTime

Michael G wrote: »

Every one of us, however, believes that his or her faith is complete, and every one of us believes that the others haven't got the full picture or have extraneous bits in theirs.

I don't believe my faith is complete. Thats actually the crux of my point. I'm not pointing the finger at you saying I have the answers. I'm saying we all fall short. Yes I have issues with Catholic doctrine, but I don't extend that to say 'and I know the real truth'. What I do see, is where certain doctrine contradicts biblical teaching. I think that the fundamental is to believe in God, and his Son Jeus Christ. Believe that he impaled and was raised in 3 days. To be a Christian is to have faith in this fact, and in turn to 'LIVE' as Jesus exemplified. Most of the bells and whistles that we argue over (not to belittle them), make for good theocratic discussion and reasoning, but its not worth anything, if you are not 'living' Christ.

PDN

I'm with Jimi on this. I think it is wrong to present the picture as though Protestants and Catholics alike are each convinced that their church is right and that everyone else is wrong.

Most non-Catholics belong to churches with certain creeds, however, they recognise the validity of churches with different creeds. A member of the Assemblies of God, for example, has a different Statement of Faith to a Baptist, but they acknowledge each other as legitimate expressions of Christianity and are quite prepared, when they finally get to heaven, to discover that their respective churches were mistaken in one or two of their minor beliefs.

The Roman Catholic Church, however, claims that it is the one true Church. It has historically made the claim that there is no salvation outside the Church of Rome. Therefore it claims to possess absolute truth in every small point of doctrine, and it denies the validity of other churches. It is not alone in this. The Russian Orthodox Church, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, David Koresh and others have all made similar claims.

That, in my opinion, is a fundamental difference. Most non-Catholics see themselves as part of a gloriously diverse universal Church, with plenty of variation in our approaches to doctrinal issues that are not fundamental to the faith. Therefore we are usually prepared to admit that our particular branch of the Church may be mistaken in some minor matters.

Michael G

JimiTime wrote: »

I don't believe my faith is complete.

I do. Though I wouldn't describe it as "my" faith, because it is not something that I devised for myself. It is a separate entity to which I have committed myself because I believe that the entire truth - in so far as God can be understood in human terms - is contained in it. Naturally I consider myself fortunate (or "blessed" might be a better word) to be in this position, because it owes nothing to me. By the same token I would never dream of suggesting that I am more perceptive, holier, or better than anyone else. The claims I make are for the Church, not for myself.

JimiTime

Michael G wrote: »

I do. Though I wouldn't describe it as "my" faith, because it is not something that I devised for myself.

Of course its not. Its a figure of speech. My faith is 'devised' from bible teaching, Christs example and prayer. My relationship with God is a personal one. all of these encompass my faith.

By the same token I would never dream of suggesting that I am more perceptive, holier, or better than anyone else. The claims I make are for the Church, not for myself.

Of course you dont. Your church make those claims on your behalf. To say that you believe in this papal authority 'you are' suggesting that you are more holier and better than others. What you may be trying to say, is that you dont claim to be holier or better than the authorities of your church.

Fanny Cradock

Michael G wrote: »

I do.

That must be a nice position to be in

Michael G

JimiTime wrote: »

To say that you believe in this papal authority 'you are' suggesting that you are more holier and better than others. What you may be trying to say, is that you dont claim to be holier or better than the authorities of your church.

With respect, I am not "trying to say" anything; I am saying clearly and exactly what I mean.

JimiTime

Michael G wrote: »

With respect, I am not "trying to say" anything; I am saying clearly and exactly what I mean.

Fair enough. then you are just mistaken in what you are saying. As i said, by believing in papal authority, you are saying that you are holier, better than others by proxy.

Michael G

JimiTime wrote: »

by believing in papal authority, you are saying that you are holier, better than others by proxy.

No I am not. God asks people to do different things, and – as the proverb says – He tempers the wind to the shorn lamb. One of my tasks, only one of many and not one which was always welcome or easy, is to be faithful to the Catholic Church. It does not mean I am better than anyone else; it is just one of my tasks. Many others have that one as well, but none of them have the same collection of tasks as I do; while others are called for other things but not – or perhaps not yet – to believe in the Catholic Church. But certainly none of us can pick and choose our relationship with God, as if He were a lifestyle option.

JimiTime

Michael G wrote: »

No I am not. God asks people to do different things, and – as the proverb says – He tempers the wind to the shorn lamb. One of my tasks, only one of many and not one which was always welcome or easy, is to be faithful to the Catholic Church.

Ok, I'll let that drop. My faith is in Jesus Christ though. I find it crazy that so many say they have 'faith' in the catholic church. But, hey, I just find thats part of the corruption. You've obviously not got any issue with its doctrine, so fair enough.

But certainly none of us can pick and choose our relationship with God, as if He were a lifestyle option.

I'm not sure what you are saying here. Could you elaborate on what 'picking and choosing' a relationship with God is?

Michael G

JimiTime wrote: »

I find it crazy that so many say they have 'faith' in the catholic church.

Not nitpicking, because it is an important distinction, but it is not faith in the Catholic Church. Faith is in God. Where the Church comes in is an acceptance that it is the fullest reflection of God's truth that humanity, with the help of the Holy Spirit, can experience.

JimiTime wrote: »

Could you elaborate on what 'picking and choosing' a relationship with God is?

People saying that such-and-such a denomination is "right for them", usually because its teachings are not difficult or inconvenient for them. But I accept that that is over-simplifying some people's position — they use that kind of second-hand Californian phrase when what they are really saying is that God has led them to believe, sincerely, that a particular denomination reflects the truth and neither more nor less.

JimiTime

Michael G wrote: »

People saying that such-and-such a denomination is "right for them",

TBH, i hate that term myself. It sounds very wishy washy, new age.

philstar

When protestants convert to to catholism, you don't hear any fuss from the protestant church leaders and certainly not from the vatican.

But when catholics even dare convert to protestantism (or any other religion) they are very heavly criticised i.e. look at the pope in central america reprimanding all those converted by the american evangilists.

i mean are catholics not free to chose their own spiritual course??