The DAW Poll 07/08

condra

What software is at the centre of your recording set-up?

Iomega Man

Logic Pro 7...thanks for askin'

condra

I'm a Live user of 2 years, and I love Ableton Live. But since events of the last month, Logic is looking more and more tempting.

Quite astonishingly, within the same month, Apple release Logic Studio, a full recording solution with tons of sample content, various great synths and samplers... then a couple of weeks later, Ableton announce Live 7, with few improvements on the core software, and a bundle of expensive new extras.

It would obviously be a big step to move to Logic Pro, but it might be wise to accept the enevitable sooner rather than later. Wether I sell my Live licence or not is something I'd have to decide much later

cornbb

Great thread!

G'wan Cubase!

condra

cornbb wrote: »

Great thread!

G'wan Cubase!

loooooollllll!!

unclebill98

Pro Tools....simple.

jtsuited

ableton and pro tools, but also tempted seriously by logic. Especially considering the less than stunning new features of ableton 7.

cornbb

Has anyone actually bought and used Logic 8 yet? I want to find out if they've reworked the audio engine yet.

Neurojazz

I use nuendo now, but make about 250 euros a month from a track made with REASON... anything is possible these days

eoin5

Wheres Adobe Audition? Am I the only one who uses it?

cornbb

eoin5 wrote: »

Wheres Adobe Audition? Am I the only one who uses it?

Tried to edit the poll but only 10 options are allowed. Guess it'll have to be filed under "other"

condra

Cornbb if you can edit the poll options, could you please replace the word "Rapture" with the word "Reaper"! Dont know where my brain was!

cornbb

womoma wrote: »

Cornbb if you can edit the poll options, could you please replace the word "Rapture" with the word "Reaper"! Dont know where my brain was!

No bother. I spotted that and thought it might be a real sequencer so kept my mouth shut

You should nearly be able to pick 2...Im a pro tools and reasonable man myself..

jessconr

theres only one program for dance music & for that reason i choose reason. the reason for this is that there is only one reason.......actually theres reason 4. theres no reason 4 using any other software!

thebookofbob

Cubase SX although I've used it since a cut version of Cubasis which came free with an old Roland controller keyboard a long while back.

condra

People seem to be very hard on Cubase these days. I mean, in forums for Logic, Live etc, but although I dont use it, I've seen Cubase in action and I quite like it.

squibs

Sonar 6. Been using Cakewalk stuff since Cakewalk Pro 4.

Bren_M.Records

Cubase for me.
Seems to be massive movement within "dance circles" towars Reason as the all in one solution but I guess Im just kinda auld and set in me ways.
Iv messed around with Reason before and its cool but I think I'll be sticking with old reliable or unreliables as it is during some updates!

empirix

Not much love for Reason here - i just upgraded to 4 and have to say i like the new editions - especially Thor. Might look into Ableton though, got Lite with some hardware i bought, might give it a whirl - a lot of the big names in Electronic circles seem to be using it

Bren_M.Records

empirix wrote: »

Not much love for Reason here - i just upgraded to 4 and have to say i like the new editions - especially Thor. Might look into Ableton though, got Lite with some hardware i bought, might give it a whirl - a lot of the big names in Electronic circles seem to be using it

The guy who engineered/produced the first album on our label used Ableton. I was quiet shocked at first as Id always thought of it more of a fun toy than a serious recording tool, just shows what I know!

ICN

I've a Mac Pro and bought Ableton 6 as I could never get my head around Cubase when I had a PC..

I didnt consider Logic 7 as I could not afford it at the time.

The last 6 months with Ableton has taught me exactaly what cannot be done with the program and has made me realise that I need to move on.

When it comes out, Live 7 is going to have sidechaining.. and thats the only big thing about it really as far as I can see.

Reason 4 is out now, and has one new synth and an appegiator.. No new FX.

Its time people see these programs for what they are.. great for quick idea's / good for a hobby.

Both companies are holding back the features that their users want as they can keep leeching upgrade money out of the likes of you and me forever. You will always be upgrading unless you step outside of the ring.

Logic Express 8 is €199!! Lots of serious synths and amazing effects. I've had it a week now.. getting to grips with it fine and it will definitely be the last bit of kit that I will need to buy for a long time to come. It also has lots of intuitive menus for every single task that you could think of..

People use Live for "Beat-repeat" - and thats it. The reat of the bundled effects in Live are rubbish - they wont be good enough for a long time yet.. Its still a long long way off something like Cubase or Logic.

Its good for DJ'ing alright and having a laugh with.

Your software should compliment your ideas..help you get them out fast and effectively.

Ableton, and to some extent Reason are so basic, stripped down and featureless, that if you try to do anything which is not an immediate or inbuilt feature you will begin such a wasteful convoluted procedure, that its hardly worth your while to bother completing it. Thats the f*cking killer everytime. You should only be worried about making the tune.

F*ck Ableton and F*ck Propellerheads.

If you have a PC - Get a couple of VST's - keep your old version of Reason and get Cubase

If you have a Mac - same - but get Logic Express 8. You wont regret it.

Apologies for the rant.. its late and I'm tired.

jtsuited

ICN wrote: »

I've a Mac Pro and bought Ableton 6 as I could never get my head around Cubase when I had a PC..

I didnt consider Logic 7 as I could not afford it at the time.

The last 6 months with Ableton has taught me exactaly what cannot be done with the program and has made me realise that I need to move on.

When it comes out, Live 7 is going to have sidechaining.. and thats the only big thing about it really as far as I can see.

Reason 4 is out now, and has one new synth and an appegiator.. No new FX.

Its time people see these programs for what they are.. great for quick idea's / good for a hobby.

Both companies are holding back the features that their users want as they can keep leeching upgrade money out of the likes of you and me forever. You will always be upgrading unless you step outside of the ring.

Logic Express 8 is €199!! Lots of serious synths and amazing effects. I've had it a week now.. getting to grips with it fine and it will definitely be the last bit of kit that I will need to buy for a long time to come. It also has lots of intuitive menus for every single task that you could think of..

People use Live for "Beat-repeat" - and thats it. The reat of the bundled effects in Live are rubbish - they wont be good enough for a long time yet.. Its still a long long way off something like Cubase or Logic.

Its good for DJ'ing alright and having a laugh with.

Your software should compliment your ideas..help you get them out fast and effectively.

Ableton, and to some extent Reason are so basic, stripped down and featureless, that if you try to do anything which is not an immediate or inbuilt feature you will begin such a wasteful convoluted procedure, that its hardly worth your while to bother completing it. Thats the f*cking killer everytime. You should only be worried about making the tune.

F*ck Ableton and F*ck Propellerheads.

If you have a PC - Get a couple of VST's - keep your old version of Reason and get Cubase

If you have a Mac - same - but get Logic Express 8. You wont regret it.

Apologies for the rant.. its late and I'm tired.

Jeepers what a coincidence. I got fed up of ableton last week and got logic pro 8. I don't think i could use ableton seriously as a production tool anymore. They were really going in the right direction over the past few years, but they just have not caught up with the likes of logic.

Still good for djing, messing around etc.

condra

Tell that to the countless producers who have dance/house tracks produced wholly in Live, flying off the digital shelves on Beatport.

ICN

jtsuited wrote: »

Jeepers what a coincidence. I got fed up of ableton last week and got logic pro 8. I don't think i could use ableton seriously as a production tool anymore. They were really going in the right direction over the past few years, but they just have not caught up with the likes of logic.

Still good for djing, messing around etc.

Snap.. Totally agree with you Mate.

It gets to a point where you feel like you are using a flathead screwdriver to loosen a philips screw. Messy.

ICN

womoma wrote: »

Tell that to the countless producers who have dance/house tracks produced wholly in Live, flying off the digital shelves on Beatport.

Hello Womoma.. Absoutely - Thats a fact.. They are doing it and we (certainally I..) are not.

I no longer buy vinyl and use Beatport at least once a week. There is no doubt that there are a lot tracks that you hear and think "Wow!" - but at the same time too, there is a lot of rubbish on it too.

If I had a € for every p*ss poor average track with that 1-2-3 1-2-3 (triplet?) bassline, with Beat repeat over the drumloop instead of actually programming the drums then I'd be rich.

There is a lot of amazing jaw droppingly great stuff on Beatport. Fantastic for getting new idea's and working out structures etc.. Its so cheap and you have 2 minutes-ish to preview.. you dont even have to buy!

But there are a huge amount of tunes that cannot compete with the sound of the more established producers. A giveaway - sometimes - is that certain tracks are not available as .wav, so they end up a smaller and more compressed .mp3 only download. Dont get me wrong - I've bought these tunes too.. but I personally would not be happy with that.

Top this with a load of crunchy 16bit drum samples from the likes of Vengance - and the end sound quality IMO suffers.

Compare some tracks and you will hear it. Some stuff is obviously overloading and distorting. Sometimes Beatport is more about quantity, not quality.. but that's ike any Music store that you will go to, isnt it?

Ableton is a tool.. same as Reason. Some great features - but certainily not the whole package. Money is always an influencing factor. You will actually find that majority of succesful acts who are using Live are only using it as a production tool.. and actually have everything going into Logic or Cubase. Not everyone of course, but the majority would rewire Live into something a bit more grown up.

People are using it from start to finish.. and that is fine too. Its amazing how humans can triumph in the face of adversity!! lol

With Logic 8 being such good value all of a sudden, I believe that we will now see another "jump" in many Musicians personal evolution. Hopefully its similar to the effect which Ableton has had on Dance Music up to now.

jtsuited

womoma wrote: »

Tell that to the countless producers who have dance/house tracks produced wholly in Live, flying off the digital shelves on Beatport.

yeah but a lot of the GOOD producers are using Live as an integrated part of their Logic/PT system.
I'm only new to logic, but the mixing capabilities are streets beyond ableton's dodgy mixer (which is something i was hoping they'd change in 7).

ICN

jtsuited wrote: »

yeah but a lot of the GOOD producers are using Live as an integrated part of their Logic/PT system.
I'm only new to logic, but the mixing capabilities are streets beyond ableton's dodgy mixer (which is something i was hoping they'd change in 7).

Seconded. 100% agree with you there jt.

MattKid

another Audition/CEP2 user here

empirix

personally i disagree, i have heard a lot of good stuff done with Reason using no loops - "a guy called gerald", i use loops a lot now but i make em myself - nothing wrong with it in my book, i am still a long way off getting things right but anything can be done with these programs these days, its in the users hands - talent is the key.

The prodigys last album was done using Reason 3, although it was muck in my book, it still shows what can be done if you know your stuff!

cornbb

I'll agree that Live has its limitations but from a design point of view its a really slick piece of gear. Logic is far more flexible but Live's backend/audio engine blows Logic out of the water. Logic 8 is looking great but its still using more or less the same piece of sh*t audio engine that it had when Apple bought it from Emagic.

ICN

empirix wrote: »

personally i disagree, i have heard a lot of good stuff done with Reason using no loops - "a guy called gerald", i use loops a lot now but i make em myself - nothing wrong with it in my book, i am still a long way off getting things right but anything can be done with these programs these days, its in the users hands - talent is the key.

The prodigys last album was done using Reason 3, although it was muck in my book, it still shows what can be done if you know your stuff!

Interview with L Howlett from Keyboardmag.

"After his night sessions in his bedroom (Laptop & Reason), he’d bring the fresh tracks to the studio and say, “This is what I did last night. Bang! The tracks would explode out of the speakers.” Things had to be tweaked, but once he had the basic demo, he could export it to Pro Tools, then do overdubs with his analog gear and lay down vocals. As he progressed, Howlett found some of the sounds from the Reason soft synths less satisfactory. “I might have used the soft synths from Reason on the demo tracks, but I would never have used them on the finished track. They don’t have the warmth that the analog s**t’s got.”

Even Liam Howlett has his doubts.. There is no denying that Reason / Live are great sketchpads.. However, you need to have have them feeding into something eventually.

Luke Viberts Kerrier District album and last Wagon Christ LP were made totally on Reason. Have to say that I thought they were really bad at the time.

When I found out that he did them only using Reason, I said to myself "Ahh haa.." He was great using the Atari - Reason just doesnt have the depth on its own.

Luke still brings the tracks off to be mastered.. Obviously he isnt satisfied with the Mclass!!

empirix

yeah i somewhat agree there but i think the new synth Thor thats in Reason 4 kicks ass big time, it sounds great, Reason 4 has taken a big leap with this synth, i wasn't very impressed with the Subtractor and Malstom synths in it before, i actually nearly have a few tracks finished using the Thor synth, i'll post em up soon, just to give an idea of its power

Actuyally started to use Renoise, its a tracker production program, liking it so far but is a bit complicated, generating some nice sounds with it too, check it out, only costs $50 - its kinda an open source thing, pretty cool

Saccadianjay

Pro-tools LE 6.4 all the way baby!

Helix

software: cubase sx3
hardware: akai mpc4000

Helix

also, sorry to be anal, but reason's not really a daw is it

Helix

Helix wrote: »

Luke still brings the tracks off to be mastered.. Obviously he isnt satisfied with the Mclass!!

nobody should master their own stuff anyway

Helix

womoma wrote: »

Tell that to the countless producers who have dance/house tracks produced wholly in Live, flying off the digital shelves on Beatport.

but ableton is an absolute dog compared to logic or cubase for midi based stuff

yes you can get results, but you can get results in notepad too

the thing is, why put yourself through hardships having to do tonnes more work just to get things sounding acceptable. its a waste of creative time

the likes of ableton and reason are grand when theyre rewired, but when theyre not they can be a bit touch and go unless youre an extremely set in your ways power user, and even then you have issues

empirix

Helix wrote: »

but ableton is an absolute dog compared to logic or cubase for midi based stuff

yes you can get results, but you can get results in notepad too

the thing is, why put yourself through hardships having to do tonnes more work just to get things sounding acceptable. its a waste of creative time

the likes of ableton and reason are grand when theyre rewired, but when theyre not they can be a bit touch and go unless youre an extremely set in your ways power user, and even then you have issues

Guess i am anal

Software: Reason 4, Renoise(only getting to grips with this baby, but impressed)

Audacity, Recycle

Thats everything i use - am i a loser, tried Ableton but didn't like it at all, are Logic and Cubase really that good! Personally i am considering going with Renoise in the long run if i don't get the sounds i'm after in reason.

jimi_t

Helix wrote: »

but ableton is an absolute dog compared to logic or cubase for midi based stuff

Why so?

I'm using the stepsequencer from an Electribe ER-1 to program my drums using Impulse, recording takes doing my group mutes in realtime. My Tascam US-428 is used as my control surface, while ableton sequences outboard gear and routes it back in through the Tascam. Minimal hassle, minimal latency (and minimal techno ).

Granted, criticism about the mixing capabilities of Ableton are valid, I find no problem with the MIDI integration.

Helix

jimi_t wrote: »

Why so?

its just horrible

now thats me coming from years of cubase, but its just nowhere near as flexible and doesnt me offer what i need anywhere near as immediately as it should, therefore is a workflow drain

making software like ableton simple and user friendly is great, but it buries any of the more advanced stuff miles away in the background

Helix

empirix wrote: »

Guess i am anal

Software: Reason 4, Renoise(only getting to grips with this baby, but impressed)

Audacity, Recycle

Thats everything i use - am i a loser, tried Ableton but didn't like it at all, are Logic and Cubase really that good! Personally i am considering going with Renoise in the long run if i don't get the sounds i'm after in reason.

logic and cubase are professional tools, reason is to an extent, but really only rewired so you can lose the reason sound

now granted theyve done great work with the audio engine in the last 2 versions, but its still a bit... well... reason sounding

Moojuice

Pro-Tools Mpowered (Project Mix) is my main program. I also use reason 4 for a few things and abelton lite (the time stretch function is its best feature). You can get some good sounds out of both and I have a few really good refills. But whatever I use I ALWAYS bring it into Pro-tools to mix, master and edit as the Pro-tools audio engine kicks the ass off anything else out there. I have also moved up to 24bit 96Khz as my basic recording bit rate and sample rate. But yeah PRO-TOOLS all the way!!!! I will be getting a mac soon so I might look into Logic though the last time I used it I found it horrible to use.

Ardent

Cubase SX 3. Yer only man.

empirix

Cubase any good for DnB production - fresh sounds?

Helix

no sounds in cubase

thats what vsts are for

squibs

Cubase any good for DnB production - fresh sounds?

I think at this stage most DAWs can do any style well. The clunkiest of them is probably FL Studio as it uses a kooky interface, but there are still people using it as their primary choice of DAW for orchestral scoring.

edit: How come FL Studio isn't listed in the poll?

JimiTime

Pro-Tools LE

ICN

squibs wrote: »

edit: How come FL Studio isn't listed in the poll?

Why should it be listed in the poll?

FL is something which people begin on.. Its just a phase, or right of passage!!!

cornbb

ICN wrote: »

Why should it be listed in the poll?

FL is something which people begin on.. Its just a phase, or right of passage!!!

Not necessarily, I know a guy who's been making lots of great tunes with FL as his main DAW software, teamed with some good VSTs and unusual stuff like Csound. Haven't used it myself but he swears by it as a cheap and functional solution.

AFAIK it wasn't included in the poll as the maximum number of options is already taken and it didn't make the cut

Woohoo, I see Cubase has overtaken Pro Tools

condra

There werent enough options, but yeah it probably should have been there instead of MOTU DP, which doesnt seem to be popular here in Oirelind.