A Nation of Lazy ....

g'em

I read something quite scary on the way into work this morning.

* One in five people in Ireland is obese.

* Less than half of all Irish teenagers take regular exercise.

* Last year over 2,500 deaths were obesity related.

That’s disgusting and embarrassing. What a shower of lazy gobsh*tes our nation really is. And what’s worse, it’s not just physical laziness, it’s laziness towards our responsibilities as humans. There’s this overwhelming wussification going on everywhere we turn – you can’t lift things in work for H & S reasons, kids can’t run around in playgrounds for fear they trip up and Daddy sues the school for millions in medical costs and trauma, the average person spends 30 hours per week in front of the tv, and the entire concept of “EMO”. Holy hell people, what happened to being the most intelligent species on the planet?

If we really were that clever we’d know that slowly but surely we’re running ourselves into the ground. We move less and we eat more. We survive on processed junk with little or no nutritional value and then act all surprised when we develop health problems later in life. And therein lies one of my bugbears: whether you’re willing to admit it or not, nutrition and fitness go hand in hand, they are not separate entities. It is extremely difficult to be very fit if your body is not provided with the adequate materials it requires make itself more energy efficient. Likewise the best diet in the world means nothing if you are not maintaining the machine it’s being used to feed. So why is it that so many people who seek advice don’t realise that??

There’s no point in piping up with smart-arsed comments about how you eat five take aways a week and maintain 3% bodyfat or other such nonsense: if you can do that you’re either a) still young enough to get away with it or b) training hard enough to outweigh the detrimental effects of crappy foods. But be responsible; accept that those foods are junk and don’t pretend otherwise.

And for those of you who say “I eat brilliantly and I walk 4 times a week, so of course I’m fit!!”: wake up and get real. We are animals, we are built to move. Our spines, our joints and our bones love nothing more than being used and stretched and manipulated. Our muscles love to be kept oxygenated and taut. We were made to be active, vigourously active, not gently pottering around or doing the odd spot of hoovering. Obviously going for walks is not a bad thing of course, but a brisk stroll four times a week quite simply is not enough to constitute being fit. Your heart, like your quads and your traps and your biceps, is a muscle, and it likes to be exercised in much the same way.

And then of course there’s vcld’ers. Or Very Low Calorie Dieters. Some of the people on these diets genuinely have reason for it. But frankly the vast majority are just lazy. The quick-fixers, the ones demanding instant gratification without considering the bigger, longer term story. But these diets are not to be taken lightly. We can’t stop you doing one, but at least be aware of the whole story before embarking on it and don’t expect a huge amount of support from these parts. They’re only recommended for people with a BMI of over 30. They *must* be supervised by a medical professional (by only ingesting 800 calories per day you will be putting your body under tremendous stress, nevermind denying it of many essential vitamins and minerals), you will more than likely experience side effects like fatigue, constipation, nausea, bad breath and diarrhea. Severe gallstones are another more common drawback. But the most important thing: you cannot stay on this diet forever. What plans have you put in place to prevent you putting all the weight back on again? Well who’da thunk it, that’s where all those fitness forum folks whose advice you’d previously ignored will be needed won’t it, so play nice. If you’re going to do something that flies in the face of the advice of 90% of people, don’t act so surprised if you get a somewhat frosty reception.

For those of you who may tell me to get off my soapbox, I simply say: get out of this forum. It’s a FITNESS forum ffs. If you want to be mollycoddled and reassured that the teeny tiny 30-minute-per-week effort you put into maintaining this incredible machine you inhabit is enough to allow you to live a long, healthy life then f*ck off to another board where that kind of namby pamby attitude might be more tolerated. If, however, you’ve realised that yes, you do indeed want to stick around on this earth long enough to see your grand-kids grow up, you want to be active and mobile well into older age, you want to enjoy the benefits of having a healthy, fit body both inside and out, then stick around.

The thing is, I know or have met a number of the regular posters on this board, so I have the advantage of knowing that they aren’t just interweb warriors behind their posts. They practice what they preach. Trust me, if you saw or trained with the likes of Dragan, hardtrainer, tribulus or Transform (just to mention a few) you’d very quickly realise that they know exactly what they’re talking about. Sometimes, when someone with more experience and more knowledge than you tries to impart their advice, just stfu and listen to them, particularly if you asked for the advice in the first place. They may advocate things that you might not want to do, but tough sh*t, that’s life.

Don’t want to give up your Saturday night take-away? Then don’t whine when you can’t get rid of your love-handles/ moobs. You don’t *need* to eat junk, there’s nothing in it your body has to have to survive, it’s a purely psychological indulgence.

Don’t want to stop drinking 10+ pints three nights a week? Then don’t whimper about having a pot-belly you can’t shift and lethargy because you’re too hungover to get your arse out of bed to go to the gym.

Don’t like the idea of actually making an effort to eat nutritious wholefoods and consciously paying attention to everything that goes into your mouth? Then don’t moan about having bad skin/ hair/ excess blubber/ no energy/ making no progress in the gym etc.

Complaining about people giving you hassle because you’re spending €70+ per week on meal replacement crash diet crap? Well why did you let yourself get to the stage that you have to resort to something that drastic in the first place and what steps are you taking to stop it happening again.

If you want to be mediocre then live a mediocre lifestyle, eat mediocre foods and put in a mediocre effort to take care of yourself. If you want to be brilliant then go then suck it up and push yourself that bit harder than 99% of the rest of the population.

Do yourself the biggest favour in life: be honest with yourself, be responsible with your lifestyle schoices and give your body the TLC it deserves. You will live a happier, more energetic and more rewarding life.

/end rant.

Pherekydes

This rant was brought to you today on the anniversary of the Windscale meltdown. What's that red-hot glow to the east?

g'em, stay clear of sharp objects. Watch for explosive decompression.

We all know: you really care.

Dudess

*tip-toes over to g'em and gingerly taps her shoulder, then shrinks back*

C-can I just say something...?

Very well said, girl. I think though, while personal responsibility is flying out the window (and I've highlighted that I acknowledge the concept of personal responsibility because someone will definitely skim through my post and miss it/choose to ignore it) the reason for people's laziness IS because there are so many incentives not to bother exerting oneself - car ownership, I've no doubt, is at an all-time high; so much tempting junk food, far bigger portions than ever (a chocolate chip cookie is not the size of a cookie any longer, it's the size of a small plate), hundreds of TV channels, computer games, the interweb - it's just EASIER for people to plump for (pun intended) all of the above. It doesn't make it excusable - people do CHOOSE these things knowing that they're risking their health, but they're willing to take the risk until something happens to give them a wake-up call.

Peterpocketman

Hear hear. what a good rant. I must say I am obese. I'm not proud of it at all I had a bad year last rear and pilled on the pounds.

I'm on the up now, controled Diet, walking a few hours a day (my job) and after work a 45 min cool down in the gym on the wyay home from work followed by 15 Hetic Minutes on the dance Machine. great wind down and I aggree with you. its not that hard to keep fit, its 80% in the mind. I went from 22 Stone to 18 Stone in 10 Weeks and its still going down, all it takes is work.

But as I said great rant and a great read

Dudess

Peterpocketman wrote:

its not that hard to keep fit, its 80% in the mind. I went from 22 Stone to 18 Stone in 10 Weeks and its still going down

Well flipping done. That's still an incredible achievement. God, 5.6 lbs a week for ten weeks - boys seem to lose weight far quicker than gals.

Peterpocketman

I think the reason I lost so much is because all of it was put on in such a short period of time, on top of that I did do a lot more in the first 12 weeks than what I have posted along with a weight loss supplement

Corksham

Peterpocketman wrote:

Its not that hard to keep fit, its 80% in the mind. I went from 22 Stone to 18 Stone in 10 Weeks and its still going down, all it takes is work.

But as I said great rant and a great read

Congrats thats a great achievement and I agree with you on the whole pychological aspect of keeping fit

yomchi

She's my favourite poster for a reason

Heinrich

That was one hell of a rant! Now when I read some of your stuff I get the impression that you need to be a chemist or scientist to enjoy a happy and healthy life. I do agree with a lot of what you are saying but my personal take is quite another story.

I am 61 years old, did some cycling (not serious but a lot of it) some winter downhill skiing and a fair bit of hillwalking. If I cave in tomorrow so be it. My father died at 48 from a heart attack so there I have a small edge on him.

If I need to lift stuff I shy away from weights as I feel the whole exercise static. I can still lift the odd concrete block or bag of sand. Wall building takes hours:D so I have slowed down in that area. As an ex printer I spent 35 years lugging around reams of paper. I have a push lawn mower and more sense than strength. I love beer drinking and will never shy away from extreme physical effort.

For me the essential is, as you say, to move. I do however, think that desk jockeying then driving to the gym to lift weights is a little nonsensical. To each his own and when the undertakers get to haul my ass off I should be a reasonable heavyweight so they will be earning their pay..

Kazu

iam so lazy

i did not even read your madness:D

mell61

Ok, you just did it.... Its been about 10 days since I've graced the gym, so I've pulled out the gym gear, rinsed out my water bottle and as soon as work finishes I'm over there!
I fully agree with the rant, even though I'm one of those lazy gits.... What has shocked me recently is the plethora of programmes about teenagers getting surgery done to lose weight, and of all those programmes only 1 person mentioned that they use food as an emotional crutch, the rest seem to like the idea that they're genetically programmed to be larger, even though family are no larger than normal. And in most cases from what was said none of them had tried dieting / exercising to shift the weight, surgery seemed to be the 'easy' option.
On the other side of it, an Aussie colleague found it very difficult to get used autumn/winter/spring here in Ireland, as he was used to finishing work and heading to beach, outback... here he found it very difficult to motivate himself to exercise on our dark evenings! So maybe 1% of our problems is geographical... after all we only have 10 days a year when people see enough flesh for us to want to get it toned!;)

g'em

@ Dudess, lol I'm a lovely person really, no need to tip-toe

You use the word incentives, I'd say excuses. That's the thing, for all of those excuses not to be fit, there are an equal number if not more things to help us be healthier. We have a vast wealth of knowledge that our predecessors didn't have, we have more money, we have more freedom. You'd swear we were the first generation to have to work hard for anything! We've just become so used ot having everything handed to us on a plate we're not used to actually having to put some effort in and it's pathetic.

@ Peterpocketman, mahoooosive congrats on the progress so far, and the best of luck with your continuing weight loss. You know where we are if you need any help

@ Heinrich, yeah, apologies if I get all science-y sometimes!!! But that's the thing, you don't need to know the intimate physiology of your body to know when it does and doesn't feel good and work right (I just like to know coz I'm a nerd ). And you're absolutely right, being active certainly isn't confined to training inside the four walls of a gym, it just means being active in lots of different ways. I'm delighted to hear such a brilliant positive and healthy attitude and from the sounds of it you're fitter and in finer health than most people half your age.

@ Jon, you crack me up

Vegeta

g'em for taoiseach

Heinrich

g'em wrote:

@ Heinrich, yeah, apologies if I get all science-y sometimes!!! But that's the thing, you don't need to know the intimate physiology of your body to know when it does and doesn't feel good and work right (I just like to know coz I'm a nerd ). And you're absolutely right, being active certainly isn't confined to training inside the four walls of a gym, it just means being active in lots of different ways. I'm delighted to hear such a brilliant positive and healthy attitude and from the sounds of it you're fitter and in finer health than most people half your age.

I must confess that I have become more sedentary in my old age. I suppose I should get some training in but apart from the beer belly I do not feel bad in my skin. Mind you after a three year lay off I took the old velo over Howth Head but I nearly killed myself. I had to walk about 200 meters on the steepest part due to the exertions so I will have another crack at it when motivation sets in.:rolleyes: Need to be fit for some skiing if there's snow at Christmas.

BTW I am not at all critical of your nerdiness. Good on ya and if you get some of the far asses going (me included) you are rendering a great service.

jaarius

Hey g'em,

Where did you read this? If you could post up a source it would be great.

Also did this same mystery article tell you that the average person spends 30 hours per week in front of the television? I find that hard to believe as I don't think I could fit in 30 hours of television per week if I tried. The days are not long enough.

j

g'em

jaarius wrote:

Hey g'em,

Where did you read this? If you could post up a source it would be great.

I read it first in the Metro newspaper, and then did a bit of digging around on the net. The teenagers and exercise factoid was from a study run by DCU in 2004 which showed that in a sample of 939 irish teenagers, 58% boys and 70% girls admitted they exercised for less than 4 hours per week, with 80% overall partaking in <6 hours vigorous exercise per week. I can't find the link for it now for some stupid reason. The obesity related deaths were taken from the Report of the National Taskforce on Obesity from 2006.

The hours in front of the tv wasn't in the same article, it was from an article I read a few days ago which was actually from the US sourced from a Nielsen Media Research report, so my apologies for that. Still, I'd imagine that we aren't very far behind.

Edit: just remembered I should credit Eric Cressey with the word "wussification", extracted from his own word "wussified". A true g'emerism if ever I heard one...

Dyr

g'em wrote:

I read something quite scary on the way into work this morning.


Don’t want to give up your Saturday night take-away? Then don’t whine when you can’t get rid of your love-handles/ moobs.

Don’t want to stop drinking 10+ pints three nights a week? Then don’t whimper about having a pot-belly you can’t shift

Don’t like the idea of actually making an effort to eat nutritious wholefoods and consciously paying attention to everything that goes into your mouth? Then don’t moan about having bad skin/ hair/ excess blubber/ no energy/ making no progress in the gym etc.



/end rant.

Could have sworn i pointed this out already but..you're the one doing all the moaning/whining here

Dragan

Bambi wrote:

Could have sworn i pointed this out already but..you're the one doing all the moaning/whining here

Hmmmm, tell me how this ads to the discussion......if you want to you can write a similar thread about people who bang on about the gym all the time?

Or.....you can join in the conversation instead of **** talking about posters?

Cheese Princess

Agreed.
Out of all the people I know, I would find it hard to think of even one who spends anywhere near 30 hours a week in front of the TV.

Dragan

Cheese Princess wrote:

Agreed.
Out of all the people I know, I would find it hard to think of even one who spends anywhere near 30 hours a week in front of the TV.

I can easily....i know people who get home at 6, are in front of the tv from 7 till 12, and then bed.

Thats 20 hours just in the first 4 days of the week....add in the weekend and you got 30+ easily..... i'm giving people credit for being out one night over the weekend, but making up for that when hungover.

You'd be amazed.

Dyr

Dragan wrote:

Hmmmm, tell me how this ads to the discussion......if you want to you can write a similar thread about people who bang on about the gym all the time?

Or.....you can join in the conversation instead of **** talking about posters?

theres a discussion/conversation going on now? i just noticed a diatribe by someone who doesnt see the inherent contradiction/funnehs in moaning about other people's behaviour and then demanding that these people not moan about the same subject, when the OP is only one whos actually venting. Its a bit like a crazy old drunk shouting at their imaginary friend not to be giving him lip

of course if i was s** talking i'd actually have said something "OP you're just a big moaner/whiner", thankfully i didnt. I'll leave the ad hom. stuff to others :cool:

thirtyfoot

You know there is something wrong when a Govt Dept that should be promoting healthy living, recreation, sport, volunteerism and everything else that goes with sports and exercise decides to spend 30% of its sports capital budget on Horse Racing. Talking about getting your priorities wrong. For kids the best way to fight obesity is sport (or the active arts) not bloody horse racing.

g'em

Bambi wrote:

of course if i was s** talking i'd actually have said something "OP you're just a big moaner/whiner", thankfully i didnt. I'll leave the ad hom. stuff to others :cool:

Did you know that an elephant has a gestation period of just under 2 years?

Just thought I'd continue sharing the pointless information trend you started.

Dragan

Bambi wrote:

theres a discussion/conversation going on now? i just noticed a diatribe by someone who doesnt see the inherent contradiction/funnehs in moaning about other people's behaviour and then demanding that these people not moan about the same subject, when the OP is only one whos actually venting. Its a bit like a crazy old drunk shouting at their imaginary friend not to be giving him lip

of course if i was s** talking i'd actually have said something "OP you're just a big moaner/whiner", thankfully i didnt. I'll leave the ad hom. stuff to others :cool:

My simple suggestion would be that this is Fitness...... if you don't want to see people who are at the top of there game getting upset about the fact that the fitness levels of people in this country are going down the toilet then maybe it the wrong forum for you?

I believe that posters such a G'em have proven they genuinely care about the folk who post here, and peoples health, fitness and well being in general.

If anyone is entitled to a rant at the state of the nation it's her.

I don't know.....maybe it's just a gym thing, or a "high effort in whatever you do thing" but frankly seeing people bitch and moan about things that can be easily changed is tiresome....especially when i know people on this board who respond to 10+ threads a day with genuine help for those who are looking for it and it's always the same questions we are answering.

If i wasn't the Mod i would have posted what G'em did a long time ago.

Dragan - not quite wearing his Mod hat right now.

Khannie

Peterpocketman wrote:

But as I said great rant and a great read

Indeed. Nice post g'em.

Reyman

A good post G'em. As usual you hit the nail on the head with unerring accuracy.
I'm sick to death also of seeing lazy fatsos waddling around everywhere I go in this country! It's my taxes that are going to be spent sorting them out when they get diabetes at age 35.

And on another point - I'm not sure why people have any doubts about the 30 hours a week people spend watching TV. That's an underestimate i'd say. I know people who watch it in the morning when having their breakfast, have another fix while eating their lunch and then spend the night watching --- wait for it --- Sky Sports. They couldn't do a Sport if their life depended on it !

nesf

Good read.

g'em wrote:

The obesity related deaths were taken from the Report of the National Taskforce on Obesity from 2006.

This is the only part I take issue with. Obesity related deaths have a lot in common with smoking related deaths, ie. cum hoc ergo propter hoc.

Dudess

Heinrich wrote:

I must confess that I have become more sedentary in my old age.

Old age? At 61? Get away from me with your "old age"!!!
I'd be going easy on you if you were ten years older but 61? "Old age" definitely isn't a phrase that would enter my head when I think of people of your generation. My dad's the exact same age. He swims, goes to the gym, plays golf and goes for long walks. In fairness, maybe he's a particularly youthful 61-year-old but I bet there's plenty of years left in you. For the last few years of my dad's career he was in management so he was a pen pusher, but he's actually an engineer, and spent many many years building roads and bridges.

g'em

nesf wrote:

This is the only part I take issue with. Obesity related deaths have a lot in common with smoking related deaths, ie. cum hoc ergo propter hoc.

Very true. And I wouldn't for a second try and say that obesity is the singular cause in these deaths, merely that, as stated, they are obesity related. That is, obesity is one of the major comlications involved. These deaths are still greatly overshadowed by smoking related illnesses of course, but it still stands that obesity is definitely a huge factor here and how many of those deaths could be prevented simply by encouraging people to be healthier?

BossArky

g'em wrote:

And then of course there’s vcld’ers. Or Very Low Calorie Dieters. Some of the people on these diets genuinely have reason for it. But frankly the vast majority are just lazy. The quick-fixers, the ones demanding instant gratification without considering the bigger, longer term story. But these diets are not to be taken lightly. We can’t stop you doing one, but at least be aware of the whole story before embarking on it and don’t expect a huge amount of support from these parts. They’re only recommended for people with a BMI of over 30.

Oi, leave Hanley out of this!

nesf

g'em wrote:

Very true. And I wouldn't for a second try and say that obesity is the singular cause in these deaths, merely that, as stated, they are obesity related. That is, obesity is one of the major comlications involved. These deaths are still greatly overshadowed by smoking related illnesses of course, but it still stands that obesity is definitely a huge factor here and how many of those deaths could be prevented simply by encouraging people to be healthier?

It's more the way they are quoted (and phrased occasionally) it appears to be implied that the singular cause was obesity/smoking/whatever, without sufficient discussion about the (generally) co-morbid factors that are there.


As in, if you smoke you're pretty likely to not take good care of yourself and have a whole host of other things going on that are risk factors for heart disease etc. It's similar with obesity, it's just when diet companies want to sell their wares they either directly quote, or commission these studies talking about "obesity related illnesses" which has made me extremely cynical about such statistics, it just stinks of healthism.

eclectichoney

G'wan the g'em. Great post, motivational in the extreme. Think I'll dig it out whenever i have a weak moment...

Dyr

Dragan wrote:

My simple suggestion would be that this is Fitness...... if you don't want to see people who are at the top of there game getting upset about the fact that the fitness levels of people in this country are going down the toilet then maybe it the wrong forum for you?

Oh it is, but look on it this way, if you run a christianity forum, and some charlie church wants to vent about this nation of godless heathens damning the country to hell while dooming their kids to a life of spiritual poverty then dont be suprised if a few secular types show up point out that they're entitled to their live their lives as they see fit (lol) and if charlie has a problem with that then it's really his problem and not theirs. Insert g'em as charlie gym and you get the general idea.

Dragan wrote:

I don't know.....maybe it's just a gym thing, or a "high effort in whatever you do thing"

I dont know, maybe it isnt.

Dragan wrote:

especially when i know people on this board who respond to 10+ threads a day with genuine help for those who are looking for it and it's always the same questions we are answering.

Glad to hear it. The only two times i posted on this forum the threads sank without reply, nice to know thats the exception rather than the rule.

nesf

Bambi wrote:

Oh it is, but look on it this way, if you run a christianity forum, and some charlie church wants to vent about this nation of godless heathens damning the country to hell while dooming their kids to a life of spiritual poverty then dont be suprised if a few secular types show up point out that they're entitled to their live their lives as they see fit (lol) and if charlie has a problem with that then it's really his problem and not theirs. Insert g'em as charlie gym and you get the general idea.

There's a difference between constructive criticism which challenges the rant in an intelligent way and sarcastic mutterings that add nothing to the thread. This isn't After Hours, it's not unreasonable for the mods here to expect people to at least contribute to discussion. I've never seen people get warned here for going against the grain and actually broadening or adding to the thread.

bobzi

Good post G'em but you need to need to chill out or you'll give yourself high blood pressure

Im not sure about your assertion that vigorous excercise will increase your life expectancy. With the amount of professional athletes who die prematurely it may well be that the 4 brisk walks a week will give u a better chance of seeing your grandkids. Having said that Im one of those lazy ##### so I could well be completely wrong

Dyr

nesf wrote:

There's a difference between constructive criticism which challenges the rant in an intelligent way and sarcastic mutterings that add nothing to the thread. This isn't After Hours, it's not unreasonable for the mods here to expect people to at least contribute to discussion. I've never seen people get warned here for going against the grain and actually broadening or adding to the thread.

Thats fair enough, point taken. But bear in mind that the original post wouldnt have been out of place in AH in its rantasticness.

Roper

Just a few things-

I don't see that 30 hours of TV necessarily correlates with poor exercise times. How many hours do people spend in front of their PC or reading a book/sitting having coffee with friends. Different I now but equally sedentary. TV isn't the devil, it's close, but not actually satan and not necessarily representative of fitness levels. I watch a lot of movies myself and some weeks might actually tip in at (counts on fingers) 20-25 hours. I wouldn't call my life sedentary.

4 hours per week vigorous exercise is quite good in my opinion. Just doing more finger calculations here, during off peak times I do maybe 3 hours vigorous exercise per week. That would also be the average amount of work one of my non-competitive students would do.

Dragan wrote:

My simple suggestion would be that this is Fitness...... if you don't want to see people who are at the top of there game getting upset...

Just a quick question... who on here is at the top of their game? Maybe I'm struggling behind the usernames but I don't see too many athletes posting here? What 'game' especially are we talking about?

This may well be the Fitness forum, but this is not the Olympic website. There are people from all walks of life here, and not all of them are 20 something studs delighted they can deadlift.

To be frank, this is the most public of all public forums. This isn't t-nation. Some people who come on here just want to go for a bit of a walk and shed a few pounds. Nobody here knows the individual situation of every newcomer who posts. Personal lives and their problems can add stress, weight etc. and to be quite honest Gem, I found your post harsh and ranting, unfounded in actual statistical evidence. You've given some excellent advice on diet and nutrition on here and long may that continue. But I think you've done yourself a disservice with that post. In the next couple of days someone who is at their wit's end and doesn't know where to begin may come on here for friendly advice and the first thing they'll see is

That’s disgusting and embarrassing. What a shower of lazy gobsh*tes our nation really is.

Hanley

Roper wrote:

Just a few things-

I don't see that 30 hours of TV necessarily correlates with poor exercise times. How many hours do people spend in front of their PC or reading a book/sitting having coffee with friends. Different I now but equally sedentary. TV isn't the devil, it's close, but not actually satan and not necessarily representative of fitness levels. I watch a lot of movies myself and some weeks might actually tip in at (counts on fingers) 20-25 hours. I wouldn't call my life sedentary.

4 hours per week vigorous exercise is quite good in my opinion. Just doing more finger calculations here, during off peak times I do maybe 3 hours vigorous exercise per week. That would also be the average amount of work one of my non-competitive students would do.


Just a quick question... who on here is at the top of their game? Maybe I'm struggling behind the usernames but I don't see too many athletes posting here? What 'game' especially are we talking about?

This may well be the Fitness forum, but this is not the Olympic website. There are people from all walks of life here, and not all of them are 20 something studs delighted they can deadlift.

To be frank, this is the most public of all public forums. This isn't t-nation. Some people who come on here just want to go for a bit of a walk and shed a few pounds. Nobody here knows the individual situation of every newcomer who posts. Personal lives and their problems can add stress, weight etc. and to be quite honest Gem, I found your post harsh and ranting, unfounded in actual statistical evidence. You've given some excellent advice on diet and nutrition on here and long may that continue. But I think you've done yourself a disservice with that post. In the next couple of days someone who is at their wit's end and doesn't know where to begin may come on here for friendly advice and the first thing they'll see is

Fully agree on pretty much all the points.

I don't see the point in ranting about how TV is the devil when most jobs require you to sit at a computer for 8 hours a day, and then alot of people seem to come home and sit online for several more hours.

And I have to say I agree that I don't know anyone who posts here that is truly at the top of their game. And by that I would mean in the top 5 in the world in their chosen sport. National level is all well and good, but if someone is going to make such assertations about the general populous you would at least imagine they were a world class athlete themselves...

I know I can get a bit caught up in expecting too much from some people here from time to time, but I try to stay away from threads where someone is just trying to lose a couple of lbs and instead reply to threads where people have questions about getting stronger and building muscle. I don't see any point in trying to get somebody who honestly doesn't care to overhaul their diet and start from scratch.

Transform

Hanley, those that just need to get up off the sofa and move their ass are in the total majority and that is why there is a point in directing them - as frustrating as that can be.

Great post gem

g'em

Roper wrote:

To be frank, this is the most public of all public forums. This isn't t-nation. Some people who come on here just want to go for a bit of a walk and shed a few pounds. Nobody here knows the individual situation of every newcomer who posts. Personal lives and their problems can add stress, weight etc. and to be quite honest Gem, I found your post harsh and ranting, unfounded in actual statistical evidence. You've given some excellent advice on diet and nutrition on here and long may that continue. But I think you've done yourself a disservice with that post. In the next couple of days someone who is at their wit's end and doesn't know where to begin may come on here for friendly advice and the first thing they'll see is

There's plenty of people who often come here at their wit's end and I've gone out of my way to help them to the best of my ability, my PM inbox is testament to that. Give me a little bit of credit here Roper, I knew what I was doing when I posted, and you seem to have misinterpreted the goal of the initial piece. I couldn't give a flying fart if you're a weekend warrior, a National athlete or a world class athlete - being at the top of your "game" to me means being the best that you can be - I'm not so elitist to think that you have to be an interational success to be respected. Putting in the effort on a weekly basis, not kidding yourself that you're different to the rest of the world's population and you don't need to exercise to stay healthy.

It was a shock tactic, and if it provokes people to reaxamine their own exercise and nutrition habits, then it's done its job. And anyone who knows me around here will know, and frankly even those who don't will know soon, that I'm here if they do want to make the next step and make some positive changes.

Roper

g'em wrote:

There's plenty of people who often come here at their wit's end and I've gone out of my way to help them to the best of my ability, my PM inbox is testament to that. Give me a little bit of credit here Roper, I knew what I was doing when I posted, and you seem to have misinterpreted the goal of the initial piece. I couldn't give a flying fart if you're a weekend warrior, a National athlete or a world class athlete - being at the top of your "game" to me means being the best that you can be - I'm not so elitist to think that you have to be an interational success to be respected. Putting in the effort on a weekly basis, not kidding yourself that you're different to the rest of the world's population and you don't need to exercise to stay healthy.

It was a shock tactic, and if it provokes people to reaxamine their own exercise and nutrition habits, then it's done its job. And anyone who knows me around here will know, and frankly even those who don't will know soon, that I'm here if they do want to make the next step and make some positive changes.

G'em, it's nice that you want to help people, it really is and I gave you credit for giving out good advice in the past. However in what capacity are you serving here? Officialdom or casual poster? Why do you believe people who come on here require a shock tactic, to be preached to? More to the point, why do you believe they need a shock tactic from YOU in particular.

I'm sure a lot of people on here think that they are indeed at the top of theit game. By your definition by self analysis we could ALL say "yeah I'm as good as I can be". But what good is self analysis?

I was loathe to bring this up because it smacks of a personal attack, but given how you are placing yourself out there as the shock doctor, I feel it's pertinent to point out that on a thread on TT you said you smoke. Now if you smoke, how efficient can your lungs be? How can that be at "the top of your game", the best you can be? How can you come on here and try to "shock" people who are trying to lose a few pounds or gain some strength, given that what you are doing is just as if not more damaging to your health?

I'm not trying to attack you personally, I feel you are an excellent contributor and most of your advice is excellent and I'm sure you've helped a great deal of people, long may that continue.

However, if you are making threads like this, I feel you must also accept the criticisms of those who disagree with your policy, or question your credentials.

Thanks,
Barry

g'em

For the record, I'm an ex-smoker. I've never ever pretended that smoking is anything other than a disgusting filthy habit, and I was doing myself huge harm indulging in it. So I stopped. And yes, it does smack of a personal attack.

I don't claim to have credentials, I don't claim to be the best of the best, I don't claim to be anything other than who I am. My capacity on this board is just as someone who has been around for a while, has been through the experiences that many people who come to the board are going through, and someone who's willing to try and help. So maybe nothing and maybe everything qualifies me to say all the things I said, but more to the point what's to stop me from saying them? As you said it's a public board, I'm free to post what I want (within the realms of the charter). Should you ever want to do similar, you can. And similarly you're free to ignore everything I said.

I'm perfectly aware that there will be criticisms and I welcome them. I'd be a shallow minded person if I didn't see that constructive criticism can be just as important as praise. I didn't set out seeking approval or appraisal, it was simply a response to a trend I've seen emerging in the forum that crops up from time to time: the quick fix embargo. People want to (quite literally) have their cake and still achieve an ideal.

People can like what I say or not like what I say, that's for them to decide and their own choice. Either way I stand by what I said.

Gill


“A vain man can never be utterly ruthless: he wants to win applause and therefore he accommodates himself to others” - van Goethe.

Transform

Good for you for giving up the fags.

Like i say become the change first and others will follow

neuro-praxis

Hrm. I know for certain that g'em has a good heart, but you know what, some things in life are more important than your calorie intake and how much you can bench. Failures in these areas doesn't make you a disgusting person.

My father-in-law, for example, leads an almost totally sedentary life and his great pleasures are his new grandkids, his garden, his newspaper and his food and wine. He is overweight, too. But the idea that he is lazy or disgusting is preposterous, frankly these kinds of assertions are shocking g'em. His strength of character, patience and loving nature are far more impressive to me than any six-pack or your (awesome) weight-lifting achievements.

As you know I have failed repeatedly for a long time in these areas myself, it's been my achilles heel, and that's now changing, but part of the change was accepting and liking who I am, as I am.

It is funny that all over boards.ie people swear blind that there's no such thing as right or wrong, there's no real difference between truth and lie, and everyone should be free to live as they desire and not be judged for it. But here it's different. Here you're disgusting and should be ridiculed. There is an almost religious fervour about the topic of health and fitness - the commitment to the cause and the revile of the "gentiles" reminds me of the fundamentalist Christians I know.

I know there's help here for anyone who wants it here, and thank you for that, (and I have been inspired and encouraged as a long-term lurker myself) but this kind of thread is unhelpful, I believe, if you are struggling.

How Strange

g'em....And for those of you who say “I eat brilliantly and I walk 4 times a week, so of course I’m fit!!”: wake up and get real.

I've read through this thread and this is the one comment that sticks out as being unnecessarily harsh and a wee bit judgemental. For some people, a brisk walk four times a week is their exercise regime and they pride themselves on having a healthy diet. Who are we to throw disdain on that?

G'em you are obviously passionate about fitness and you live by it judging by your input to this forum and the nutrition and diet forum but if we start looking down on people that do less exercise than us or we feel our regime is more superior then that makes us elitest. Yes or no?

I applaud anyone who has the drive and the focus to maintain a vigorous exercise plan and to fit it successfully into their lives. I admre them and am jealous of them. I have friends like that and I marvel at their focus while in training. However, I am not one of them. I have to push myself to maintain a reasonably high level of fitness and my regime is one made up of fits and starts. Having said that I am definitely more fit than the ordinary joe who sits watching tv and eating processed tv dinners.

But, there are lots of people, for one reason or another, that consider eating healthily and walking regularly as maintaining a healthly lifestyle. And those people should be applauded just as much as the dedicated, amateur athelete who runs, cycles, goes to the gym, etc etc and is super fit. We may be animals designed to move but the definition of that movement could be open to debate.

Maybe I misinterpreted this point and I have taken it out of context.

thirtyfoot

g'em wrote:

I didn't set out seeking approval or appraisal, it was simply a response to a trend I've seen emerging in the forum that crops up from time to time: the quick fix embargo. People want to (quite literally) have their cake and still achieve an ideal.

Pauline Davis (olympic silver medalist) calls them them the "microwave generation"

"When I line up against someone and I know that they were out there training hard, waking up 4 o'clock in the morning like I did back in the day I can respect that. At the end of the race, win or loose I feel good because I know that I did it the right way and had to work hard. Anything you achieve in life is not going to be easy,"


"The children of today want everything quickly - I call them the 'microwave generation'. There is a message here for young people that you have to work hard. The children who decide to take the 'microwave path' or the quick and easy route are prone to things like what happened to Ms. Jones"

Dragan

Roper wrote:

Just a quick question... who on here is at the top of their game? Maybe I'm struggling behind the usernames but I don't see too many athletes posting here? What 'game' especially are we talking about?

In this case i would simply say the OP, i thought that would be obvious so apologies if i did not make that clear enough? And in this particular case the "game" in question would be powerlifting.

g'em

neuro-praxis wrote:

My father-in-law, for example, leads an almost totally sedentary life and his great pleasures are his new grandkids, his garden, his newspaper and his food and wine. He is overweight, too. But the idea that he is lazy or disgusting is preposterous, frankly these kinds of assertions are shocking g'em. His strength of character, patience and loving nature are far more impressive to me than any six-pack or your (awesome) weight-lifting achievements.

Good for him, and may he live a long and healthy life. I'm talking in generalities here of course, or are we imagining an emerging obesity crisis in this country?

neuro-praxis wrote:

It is funny that all over boards.ie people swear blind that there's no such thing as right or wrong, there's no real difference between truth and lie, and everyone should be free to live as they desire and not be judged for it. But here it's different. Here you're disgusting and should be ridiculed. There is an almost religious fervour about the topic of health and fitness - the commitment to the cause and the revile of the "gentiles" reminds me of the fundamentalist Christians I know.

Who has ridiculed you here? As far as I can see people with positive stories to tell get encouraged and congratulated, not punished.

Seeings how Roper decided to bring up my old habit, I'll use that as an example. When I smoked, people would call my habit disgusting, and it was. I was slowly killing myself. Neglecting your health by ill-management of your nutritional habits and doing little or no execise is similar to this (not the same, similar). So why is it a bad thing to comment on people's diets and not bad to call them a filthy smoker?

I was making a comment about how willing people are to make excuses for their ill-health, when so much of it is self-imposed (in the instances of obesity). Hence the need for responsibility with your own choices.

If you make choices, be willing to stand by them. If you choose not to be healthy, be willing to defend it.

g'em

How Strange wrote:

G'em you are obviously passionate about fitness and you live by it judging by your input to this forum and the nutrition and diet forum but if we start looking down on people that do less exercise than us or we feel our regime is more superior then that makes us elitest. Yes or no?

An excellent question, and a question that's very difficult for anyone to answer with complete honesty. Take the fitness aspect out of it, apply it to any discipline imaginable. If you're better at basket-weaving than most people, do you look down on those that can't do it or can only make little baskets that fall apart in two days? If you're a highly intelligent person do you look down on people with supposed lesser intellectual capabilities than you do?

I'm quite sure we'd all like to put our hands on our hearts and say that we don't, and hopefully that really is the case. I don't feel that I do look down on people who don't exercise as much as I do. They just have a different lifestyle than I do. Sometimes I even think I'd like to have less of a passion for my sport as it leaves me with so little time to enjoy other things in life. But are those people who don't exercise as much as I do in a position to tell me what being fit is all about when I have a greater level of fitness than they do? Am I in any position to tell a basket weaver what the best type of twine to use is?

But the point of the text you quoted was simply a provocational one. If you're happy walking 4 times a week, then grand. But you can't, in fairness, claim to be "fit" from that kind of exertion. That is, there are folks now who think that walking is enough to keep them in peak condition, when it simply isn't. It's just about enough to keep your heart healthy. If you don't want to be in peak condition, fine. But if you do, walking won't cut it. Does that make more sense?

neuro-praxis

No-one has ever ridiculed me here (I'm a lurker not a poster typically) - I wasn't talking about myself. I was making reference to comments such as the ones in this very thread that voiced their agreement about how they are sick of looking at fat people waddling about.

The central point of my post g'em was that while good diet and exercise are important (no brainer) these issues do not define the moral character or personal worth of an individual. I agree with you about the need to take ownership of personal decisions and failings, that's where I'm at. I have not made any excuses for anyone, not even myself.

In regard to your smoking habit, I work in an area that deals with mouth and tongue cancers, and in the vast majority of cases the patients will be heavy smokers. I have never smoked in my life, have an aversion to it and was in favour of the ban. However I don't believe that people who are addicted to smoking are disgusting. I also don't refer to my friends as filthy smokers. I would like to see them quit smoking because I love them and I care about them, not because I think they will be more acceptable as non-smokers.

I have been able to reach a point where I am dealing with my issues in part because of the gracious people around me. Being told that I was fat, lazy and disgusting would only have confirmed my worst fears about myself and perhaps I would have eaten myself to death. Once more I think it is the attitude rather than the principle I am objecting to. Perhaps there is no middle ground here.

g'em

neuro-praxis wrote:

The central point of my post g'em was that while good diet and exercise are important (no brainer) these issues do not define the moral character or personal worth of an individual. I agree with you about the need to take ownership of personal decisions and failings, that's where I'm at. I have not made any excuses for anyone, not even myself.

We're on the same page really. I was just taking the diet & exercise in isolation... jeebus, even I'd shy away from trying to comment on moral worth

neuro-praxis wrote:

I have been able to reach a point where I am dealing with my issues in part because of the gracious people around me. Being told that I was fat, lazy and disgusting would only have confirmed my worst fears about myself and perhaps I would have eaten myself to death. Once more I think it is the attitude rather than the principle I am objecting to.

Well certainly there is a certain mind-set among fitness folk to that end. But there is a flip side you know, we get abuse as well. I've lost count of the numerb of times I've been accused of doing steroids, that I'm a fitness freak, that what I do is unfeminine and I'm going to turn into a man! The insults fly from both sides of the camp, believe me! All I'm saying is that I know how it feels to be on the butt-end of comments made about people who don't agree with your lifestyle, and I'm not making any personal judgements about anyone, only trying to make people think.

neuro-praxis wrote:

Perhaps there is no middle ground here.

There is, it's just very hard to reach. Unfortunately these arguments get broken down into fat vs fit, when we all should know that there's a gazillion bits in between. Just as there are lazy fat people, there are fit fat people. There are lazy skinny people, and there are skinny people who have horrific diets and are asking for a varity of health problems. It's hard to stay mindful of all those differences, but for the sake of debate generalisations are made and people's feelings get hurt.