Kiko V Wayne!!!!

walshb

I just read on the BBC that Kiko is to defend against Wayne McCullough very soon for the title.......I can't paste the link on this PC unfortunately.
Maybe someone else can....

Can Wayne win?
Surely he lasts longer than 86 secs?

Ruu_Old

From here.

Former world bantamweight champion Wayne McCullough is to relaunch his career at the King's Hall on Saturday, 1 December against Kiko Martinez.

The Spaniard, who halted Bernard Dunne's unbeaten run as a professional in August, could put his European Super Bantamweight crown up for grabs.

The European Boxing Union has been asked to sanction the 12-round fight in Belfast.

Brian Magee is also on the bill against an as yet unnamed opponent.

McCullough was due to make a comeback last June in Dublin, but he decided to stay home in Las Vegas amid uncertainty about the arrangement of a suitable opponent.

The Belfast man's last appearance was a defeat to Mexican Oscar Larios for the WBC super bantamweight title fight in Las Vegas back 2005.

Martinez now boasts a record of 14 knockouts in 17 victories.

Rob_l

Pity this fight is in belfast I wouldn't mind seeing Kiko get to fight more than half a round and Im sure there would be a few more willing to pay to watch a decent fight with him

cowzerp

walshb wrote:

I just read on the BBC that Kiko is to defend against Wayne McCullough very soon for the title.......I can't paste the link on this PC unfortunately.
Maybe someone else can....

Can Wayne win?
Surely he lasts longer than 86 secs?

If these fight and wayne is fit he will win and it would be a 12 round decision or stoppage depending on kiko's endurance!

walshb

Well if Kiko can't beat Wayne, it doesn't say very much for the European standard, or the CHAMPION.....

cowzerp

walshb wrote:

Well if Kiko can't beat Wayne, it doesn't say very much for the European standard, or the CHAMPION.....

Bren kiko's power is his strenght and mccullogh's is stamina and an iron chin, nobody will have an easy time of wayne, if kiko can go 12 rounds in an action packed fight he probably will win, but i think he's a 5 round guy??? i just hope wayne is fit and does not get badly beaten as he could get bashed for 12 rounds due to his iron will and chin..

walshb

Yes but don't forget Wayne is 37 now?
He was a terrific fighter with tons
of stamina, but age has to diminish
him. He may not have the sustained stamina
he had 5-10 years ago. He won't have it IMO
and Kiko if any good, will prevail. I am assuming he is
at least as fit as a 37 year old punch drunk Wayne.
Wayne has the CHIN, but I can't see him hurting
anyone at this stage of his career.....

5-6 years ago, I'd be betting on a McCullough victory!!!

Rob_l

When was waynes last fight out of interest

walshb

He lost to Larios by TK0 10 in July 05.....

buck65

This could be a fatal combination, Wayne is too brave and may get hurt.

Vince135792003

buck65 wrote:

This could be a fatal combination, Wayne is too brave and may get hurt.

I'm with you there. Its both a compelling and scary match up.

dlofnep

If Wayne is game and in good shape, he can win this.

nacho libre

walshb wrote:

Yes but don't forget Wayne is 37 now?
He was a terrific fighter with tons
of stamina, but age has to diminish
him. He may not have the sustained stamina
he had 5-10 years ago. He won't have it IMO
and Kiko if any good, will prevail. I am assuming he is
at least as fit as a 37 year old punch drunk Wayne.
Wayne has the CHIN, but I can't see him hurting
anyone at this stage of his career.....

5-6 years ago, I'd be betting on a McCullough victory!!!

Wayne could never hurt anyone, what he could do was grind people down and absorb an awful lot of punishment.

remember what Larry Merchant said about him:"if only he had a punch"
I fear he'll take sustained punishment over 12 rounds but won't wilt. That said hopefully he'll defy the years and prevail triumphant!

walshb

Yes grind them down in his prime. He's too far gone now to grind anything down.
If Kiko really is European class, then he will win....

MrVostro

Martinez will do what he did with Dunne.
He'll just realize - 'this guy cant punch, what have i got to be worried about' - and walk through those feather dusters that are supposed to be punches that Wayne will be throwing. And then land his bombs on them.

Wayne hasnt got a hope.

walshb

MrVostro, you may well be right. Do you know something about Kiko that we don't?
WE really don't have much to go on as Dunne didn't even put up a fight.
If Kiko really has a KO punch, then Wayne will taste it, as Wayne
always did take punishment. Wayne has a steel chin, but what I am concerned
about is his stamina at his age. Chin and stamina are linked....

Big Ears

If McCullough is anything like the fighter he was 2 years ago I give him a great chance .

Martinez won't be able to walk through McCullough and his other strengths will be tested and see if he's much more than a puncher .

Mr Vostro if it was that easy to walk through Wayne then why didn't Morales or Hamed do it ? , granted Wayne isn't the same fighter now but he still has that chin and I bet he's gonna shock a lot of people by still having great stamina and workrate .

I'm worried about Wayne's health so if this fight goes through I hopes it's his last , but that's not to say he can't win this .

raven136

personally im not sure about this fight,If wayne is still as good as previously at taking punches then it could be along night for him.kiko is a massive puncher and if he has any sort of chin do you not fear he could do real damage to Wayne.

What would be the future prospects for either guy,who would wayne fight if he won and vice versa

walshb

Again I have to ask, do some here know more about Kiko than the rest of us.
A massive puncher?
How?

The Dunne affair is NOT a true indicator of this and nor is Kiko's KO record.
It does tell us that he is unbeaten, but against really poor opposition.

When Kiko takes out a tough class opponent with a half decent chin, then
I think it is safe to debate the issue of him being a massive puncher.

raven136

walshb wrote:

Again I have to ask, do some here know more about Kiko than the rest of us.
A massive puncher?
How?

The Dunne affair is NOT a true indicator of this and nor is Kiko's KO record.
It does tell us that he is unbeaten, but against really poor opposition.

When Kiko takes out a tough class opponent with a half decent chin, then
I think it is safe to debate the issue of him being a massive puncher.

do you not think its us who all underestimated him and his team know he will be too much for wayne.And if the dunne fight is an actually indicator of his punching ability,then wtf would wayne go in there with him.

The Sparrow

This has the possibility to be a very bad fight for Wayne. I remember watching him get destroyed by Scott Harrisson a few years ago and it was not a fun fight to watch at all. Obviously Martinez isnt as big as Harrison but he could still hurt McCullough as we at least now that he is a powerful puncher.

But (and I understand it is a BIG but) if Wayne were to beat Kiko, could we see Wayne McCullough v Bernard Dunne down the line? Now that fight would be money!

dlofnep

IF Wayne won, I think Wayne/Bernard would be a possibility.

walshb

raven136 wrote:

do you not think its us who all underestimated him and his team know he will be too much for wayne.And if the dunne fight is an actually indicator of his punching ability,then wtf would wayne go in there with him.

I never underestimated Kiko as I knew nothing about him apart from his record.
I never saw him fight and all his opponents were very poor, at least on paper.
I assumed Dunne's camp knew something we didn't, as they had been feeding Dunne really poor opponents all through his reign in Ireland, I just figured "why change the habit of a lifetime"...

Now knocking out Dunne IMO is nothing special as Dunne has no chin whatsoever. Knocking out Wayne will certainly be impressive as Wayne has or at least had a steel chin. Does he still possess the ability to take a heavy whack?...He is getting on and has been inactive for quite some time. Will this affect his ability to take a shot and recover quickly

yomchi

My money would be on Wayne also. Its a pity he missed the return to Ireland on the Dunne card. According to his website his training is going well and he's still game.
His last defeat by TKO in the 10th was seen by many as bad decision by the doctor on the night. Larios was also cut to peices heading into the 10th.

Bearing in mind Kiko knocked down Dunne who had a wide open guard and a cocky high chin. McCullough is a more seasoned opponent who won't make silly mistakes like Bernard did. If Kiko bangs him hard, mcCullough will close up and shut down Kiko's distance, Bernard tried to stand toe to toe with him remember.

joker77

This makes for a very interesting match up, because there are so many unknowns at this stage. Personally, I'm hoping that the fight doesn't actually happen, and I think it may well not, as I'm a big fan of Wayne McCullough but I feel at this stage he's running the risk of causing himself permanent damage. The man has got the biggest heart for a boxer I've ever seen, plus the steel chin, he was just nearly impossible to stop. Hamed (at his peak) couldn't do it, Morales couldn't do it, Harrison (who came in much heavier on the night and looked at least 1 weight division above McCullough, and pounded him) couldn't do it. Ok Larios did, but what age was Wayne then - 35 or something? His first career knock-down. Think about that.

The other unknown is Martinez. Ok he blew away Dunne, but you could also say he's got a poor record and caught him cold, so we don't really know if he's got the skills to deal with someone like The Pocket Rocket. I know Wayne will have slowed, but a slow Wayne is still someone that's going to put in an amazing workrate of punches and is a proven 12 round fighter, whereas Martinez hasn't been tested past 6.

I don't think the fight will happen, at least I'm hoping it doesn't, but hey - if it does I'll be rooting for Wayne McCullough!

Big Ears

One of the main reasons Wayen was beat from pillar to post by Harrison was he had a terrible virus , which aswell as other huge defects(no energy/stamina which is unheard of from Wayne) raised his heart rate to 3 times it's normal fighting rate(which makes him very lucky he didn't suffer from cardiac arrest that night) . The virus also helped him suffer from dehydration that night(which is what he was originally hospitalised for)

I agree with the stoppage he suffered against Larios . For me McCullough had won 3 of the 10 rounds , making victory without knockdowns or a knockout impossible(and neither was going to happen) .Now McCullough's strongest rounds are normally the 11th and 12th and I think Wayne would of won them as Larios seemed to be fading a bit . But what's the point of being in there just to lose a close decision while taking brutal punishment .

McCullough was taking a sickening amount of shots around the 8th/9th , being outlanded 3/1 . Despite this he seemed to come on strong in the 10th and it was a pretty close round(which Larios edged) and Larios seemed to have maybe punched himself out a little as his workrate was down quite a bit .
But as I said there would of been no point in allowing Wayne to fight on just to lose a close decision , taking more punishment(knowing the punishment he's already taken) .

Wayne was pretty unlucky in one way , he opened two dreadful cuts on Larios , one from a butt and the other from a punch . I don't think I've ever seen a better job done on a cut than Larios' cutman that night . I was certain that the fight was going to have to be stopped on a cut and that Larios would have to hope it's the one from the butt otherwise he'd lose his title . Trying to think back now I think I had it 3-3 after 6 rounds so if the fight was stopped before the 7th McCullough would of earned a draw at the very least .


Anyway , I don't wanna see Wayne have to take anymore punishment but I can't understand the opinion of Kiko destroying him that some people seem to have . Kiko's power will probably be cancelled out by Wayne's amazing chin and he'll have to really on his skill/will/stamina to win this . If Martinez has stamina problems he very may well lose his title .

alanceltic

Lads there is no way this fight can go ahead as McCullough is not ranked with the EBU so it would be a non title fight. It looks like Hobson is badly stuck for a card to fulfill his committments with Setanta and my own personal opinion is that I will believe it when I see it after McCulloughs noshow at the point with a VERY lame excuse. IF the fight did manage to go ahead (even as a non title fight) my money would be on McCullough, I rekon Martinez is a 1 trick pony...power,power and more power and very little else, and I dont think he could outbox McCullough over 10/12 rounds, as old as McCullough is I always had the opinion that he was supremely fit and even at 35 in his last fight he looked well conditioned and would expect the same and a rock solid chin isnt impaired by age!

yomchi

http://www.britishboxing.net/news_2756-Martinez-McCullough-an-exciting-prospect.html

Happy days, I feel giddy already

walshb

Th absolute tripe they write. The worlds hottest prospect?
He's beat nobody and he's the worlds hottest prospect?

joker77

Yea it's a bit much calling him "one of the hottest prospects in world boxing".

It makes for an interesting fight, and as much as I think Wayne should hang up his gloves, I really want to see him again show us what world class really means.

yomchi

Undercard so far:

The show will also feature Brian Magee in an eight-rounder at super-middleweight having opted to leave the light-heavy division. Manager Pat Magee said: "Brian has been over sparring Mikkel Kessler for his fight with Joe Calzaghe and he saw how he lives and eats boxing and it made him realise that he can still box at super-middle. He felt sluggish in the ring against Oakey and he wants to have another go at super-middle and I can see him fighting for the British title next year."

Magee also announced that rising Irish middleweight star Andy Lee will be on the bill along with heavyweight Martin Rogan and featherweight Martin Lindsay. The main supporting contest will see Dean Francis defending his Commonwealth light-heavyweight title against Nigeria's Michael Gbenga

Got my tickets yesterday, anyone else going up for it?

Big Ears

That's a cracking fight card and considering the bill the week after we have a 2 great weekends for Irish boxing in December .

3 years ago I doubt anyone would of believed we'd be having boxing cards so common here in Ireland and to such a high standard .

wardyeire

sorry to day Wayne is past it and this fight should not be allowed go ahead, any one who read his bio would realise that the past is the past and he shouldn't be allowed in the ring, no one adnmired Wayne more than me but enough is enough and this is a bad match up

NaFianna

Don't know how this will fare out, but one thing is for sure, Wayne won't come out of a clinch with his hands down and go straight back. Wayne is always covered up and keeps punching.

dlofnep

Big Ears wrote: »

That's a cracking fight card and considering the bill the week after we have a 2 great weekends for Irish boxing in December .

3 years ago I doubt anyone would of believed we'd be having boxing cards so common here in Ireland and to such a high standard .

Agreed.

joepenguin

Setanta have pulled out.
the fights going ahead but as it stands wont be on tv:mad:

yomchi

How come?

joepenguin

dont know, just seen it on mcculloughs site:

www.pocketrocketbox.com

menoscemo

Checked the site up and down. It is under the section 'ask wayne'. nice site though....

yomchi

Here's what he says;

Graham, it's not a rumor. At this point, the fight will not be shown on TV. I've been asked if I'll pull out because of this but I'm not doing this for TV, I'm doing this for the fans who I know will come out and support me on the night. And right now turning up is their only chance to see my fight. Wayne

Got my tickets this morning, can't believe John Duddy is boxing the week after and Andy Lee is boxing the week after that... Happy Xmas:D:D

Bernard Hopkins

gosh, After making the Bernard Dunne mistake , i think Kiko is still an unknown quantity here.
so too, for that matter is Wayne mcCullagh .
who know's what type of performance wayne can give ?

Kiko's corner had a lot of confidence in him, so Kiko is no one-off fluke as far as they are concerned.

I really dont know who will be favourite for this fight !!

walshb

Wayne is the most KNOWN quantity there is.
Absolute no surprises from Wayne.
He has the one style, all out pressing attacks.
He throws lots of shots, takes lots and is
a tough tough man with a steel chin.

Now, is he anyway close to this at 37?
I can't see how.
He's been battered from
pillar to POST for most of his career and at
37?, we all know this could be very
dangerous...

A riduculous fight that is unfortunately
going ahead. I hope Wayne wins and if he does,
it will prove nothing but one thing, Kiko is
really poor......

megadodge

A riduculous fight that is unfortunately
going ahead. I hope Wayne wins and if he does,
it will prove nothing but one thing, Kiko is
really poor......

I wouldn't say he would be "really poor" simply for losing to Wayne. Don't forget the only people to ever have beaten McCullough are reigning world champs.

And although I know where you're coming from in saying it's a ridiculous fight (like myself you just want him to retire before he gets hurt), it's still an intriguing contest as the many different predictions are showing. Not a sure thing at all.

jessy

I think if you look at the people that Kiko Martinez has fought, you would be hard pushed to pick a decent fighter out of the lot of them! (fair enough Dunne is a good boxer but has a glass chin) where as McCullough is a class fighter! There is no way that Kiko is going to outbox Wayne, and no way he is going to knock him out! So with out a doubt Wayne to win a unanimous decision!

walshb

megadodge wrote: »

I wouldn't say he would be "really poor" simply for losing to Wayne. Don't forget the only people to ever have beaten McCullough are reigning world champs.

And although I know where you're coming from in saying it's a ridiculous fight (like myself you just want him to retire before he gets hurt), it's still an intriguing contest as the many different predictions are showing. Not a sure thing at all.

Trashed by world greats several years ago. Wayne is NOT close to the 2000-2002 level, so if Kiko loses, he is losing to a shell of a good fighter, not even to a shell of a true great.....

Big Ears

jessy wrote: »

I think if you look at the people that Kiko Martinez has fought, you would be hard pushed to pick a decent fighter out of the lot of them! (fair enough Dunne is a good boxer but has a glass chin) where as McCullough is a class fighter! There is no way that Kiko is going to outbox Wayne, and no way he is going to knock him out! So with out a doubt Wayne to win a unanimous decision!

A poor argument really , just because a fighter hasn't beaten anyone great doesn't mean he can't . Of course if he has struggled against subpar opposition then the likelyhood is he won't do well against good fighters , but a fighter who has dealt with easy opposition easily well.......we just can't know .

I don't think anyone around here knows enough about Kiko to claim he can't outbox Wayne(I will stand corrected if anyone has seen 4/5 of Kiko's fights) , Kiko is still almost an entirely unknown quantity . The only things we know are he is heavy handed and has quick hands and that's it .

No outcome would really surprise me in this bout .

walshb

Big Ears wrote: »

A poor argument really , just because a fighter hasn't beaten anyone great doesn't mean he can't . Of course if he has struggled against subpar opposition then the likelyhood is he won't do well against good fighters , but a fighter who has dealt with easy opposition easily well.......we just can't know .

I don't think anyone around here knows enough about Kiko to claim he can't outbox Wayne(I will stand corrected if anyone has seen 4/5 of Kiko's fights) , Kiko is still almost an entirely unknown quantity . The only things we know are he is heavy handed and has quick hands and that's it .

No outcome would really surprise me in this bout .

I agree with all points except that IMO we still don't even know if Kiko is heavy handed.
KOing Dunne is not evidence, as Dunne is so weak chinned, and if KIko ko'd all
his opponents, it still not a definte, as all could have been useless...

jessy

Big Ears wrote: »

A poor argument really , just because a fighter hasn't beaten anyone great doesn't mean he can't . Of course if he has struggled against subpar opposition then the likelyhood is he won't do well against good fighters , but a fighter who has dealt with easy opposition easily well.......we just can't know .

Big Ears wrote: »

I don't think anyone around here knows enough about Kiko to claim he can't outbox Wayne(I will stand corrected if anyone has seen 4/5 of Kiko's fights) , Kiko is still almost an entirely unknown quantity . The only things we know are he is heavy handed and has quick hands and that's it .

A few fair points there, but if you look at his record, (http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?cat=boxer&human_id=258662)
i think you will find that he HAS struggled against very weak oposition, and im talking about the decision win against a guy who lost 25times!!! a points win over a guy who lost 15 of his 21 fights! Seem like if he fights someone with a little bit of experience then it goes all the way.

It is far from certain that he is heavy or quick handed, His Record suggest that he is neither!

Big Ears wrote: »

No outcome would really surprise me in this bout .

I’m really surprised that you could say such a thing; you are putting an experienced and proven fighter in against a virtual unknown! Smart money is on Wayne!

Big Ears

http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=3372&cat=boxer
247 losses , only 10 by knockout , some guys are just hard to stop .

Winning on points is not struggling , Edison Torres is a well known journeyman in Spain and he is very rarely stopped .
John Bikai is an even more known journeyman and he just doesn't get stopped and usually puts up a good fight .

I have picked Wayne to win on points , which is by no means a certainty . But to say Kiko hasn't got quick or heavy hands because he couldn't stop some teak tough journeyman(many who's main aim is to last the distance) is simply ridiculous .

I guess Wladamir Klitschko can't punch because he couldn't stop a guy with a 20-21-1 record(Everett Martin) .

walshb

The bottom line is that it is not really possible to say for certain if Kiko can really punch. Nobody knows because he is such an unknown fighter. His record is an indication only.
It tells us he has a good KO percentage or TKO percentage. It doesn't tell us if the opponents he was KOing and TKOing were tough hard men. Beating Dunne also does not tell us. We will see, when and if, Martinez can plant a serious shot on Wayne. Granted, Wayne may not go down, but Wayne isn't superman, he can be hurt and it should be visible...

jessy

Big Ears wrote: »

But to say Kiko hasn't got quick or heavy hands because he couldn't stop some teak tough journeyman(many who's main aim is to last the distance) is simply ridiculous .

Who said that Kiko hasn't got heavy hands? i was merely stating that judging by his record you incorrectly stated that "The only things we know are he is heavy handed and has quick hands and that's it " how do we know this? because of his 17 wins (7 of which were against guys who had not got a single win to there name)? No! there is no possible way you can say this knowing what we do about him!