three issue with handset / refund / replacement [moved form Mobiles/PDAs]

foggy_lad

I bought this nokia n73 on 31th august for €229 in the carlow "3" store and have not had any sleep since! that friday(31th) i noticed the camera seemed to be freezing and crashed the phone a few times but i decided to wait till after the weekend to see if it was just a start-up glitch? well it got worse so i went back to the store on the following tuesday to see what they thought and the helpfulish staff said they would have to send it for repair but i asked that as it was a new phone they should replace it which they did! the replacement lasted slightly longer almost 4weeks but this was probably due to me not using it much? but it still went down the "three" slippery path of "oops" excriment:D . anyway the store staff said they would replace it again then said they wouldn't replace it but customer care arranged a replacement which i recieved 4days later(last wednesday). NOW this 3rd replacement phone is also faulty with the same problems and issues as the other two! three customer care have agreed to replace this crap n73 with a sony k800i but are only offerring €30 off my next bill which wont carry over if my next bill is less! they are refusing to refund the difference in price of €100!!

foggy_lad

quick update i got call back from manager/supervisor in mumbai and she offered me a k800i plus €38 total value €167 as replacement for this crap n73 i paid €229 for! it is terrible when the compensation they offer actually costs you €100!!

thebman

You shouldn't accept that IMO. Its faulty goods so your entitled to a full refund. Demand your money and challenge them with the small claims court as they will loose.

Preferably go into the store you bought it from (if you did buy in store and not online) as they have to deal with you as they sold you the phone so the contract is with them. They owe you a full refund, you are doing them a favour accepting a replacement, by rights, you could just demand a refund and switch off their service.

I haven't been keeping touch with phones lately but is this a known issue with the N73? Could it be your SIM by any chance, considering you had the same problem with 3 different phones?

Sam Vimes

brim4brim wrote:

You shouldn't accept that IMO. Its faulty goods so your entitled to a full refund. Demand your money and challenge them with the small claims court as they will loose.

Preferably go into the store you bought it from (if you did buy in store and not online) as they have to deal with you as they sold you the phone so the contract is with them. They owe you a full refund, you are doing them a favour accepting a replacement, by rights, you could just demand a refund and switch off their service.

if tie goods are faulty he's entitled to a refund, repair or replacement at the retailers discretion. He's getting a replacement so there are no grounds for a court case

miju

Commander Vimes wrote:

if tie goods are faulty he's entitled to a refund, repair or replacement at the retailers discretion. He's getting a replacement so there are no grounds for a court case

eh yes there is every ground for the small claims court here and he'd win hands down.

replacement should be of the same of same model not a cheaper one. anyway OP read this. I think your phone clearly falls under model not being available category here

good luck and keep us updated

foggy_lad

i have had THREE replacements now all the same nokia n73 and three insisted on giving me the replacements. but the problem is that three do not have any non-faulty n73 phones to offer me, as all the models they sell have the same faulty software which nokia have said is faulty!

this problem because it has not been resolved/corrected must, i believe, now revert back to the 1st time i reported the fault! so in warranty i only have the phone for a few days not for one month as three cant count time spent trying to fix the fault as time i have owned the phone.
they are well aware of this issue as i have found out that another member of boards has had the same problem since last may but i think he de-branded his handset to update it?(which will void all warrantys)

they have offered a cheaper phone with less specs(noX-series) which i will accept if they also refund the price difference AND also compensate for all the phone calls that led to nothing happening!

p.s. i want to keep the contract as it is the best value but the phone does not and never will work while branded and locked to three!

miju

foggy_lad wrote:

i will accept if they also refund the price difference AND also compensate for all the phone calls that led to nothing happening!

in all honesty 3 nor any company are likely to compensate you for time spent esolving the issue (though i is god customer care) . your better off just pursuing either a full refund of the difference.

if they refuse to do this play hardball and demand a fll refund as you are well entitled to do and make the best of a bad situation

foggy_lad

well they offered sony k800i and €30 off next bill but that is just an insult

miju

so get back on again say thats absolutely not acceptable (which is true) and say you want a full refund in the difference of the price.

if they refuse then ask for a full refund and if they refuse that then you have them by the goolies in the small claims court which will be your next step.

otherwise you'll have to accept their below par offer and live with it

foggy_lad

yes i refused their offer and said i wanted refund of the full price or the difference and they said that is not possible from india but she will pass it to her manager whom she feels sure will tell me the same? Hmmmm thought she was the manager

miju

well in that case small claims court or accepting the offer is the only option

off topic for a sec, i had no idea 3s call centre was in India. Apart from the other horror stories i've head about 3 this is another reason for not going with them anytime in the future.

foggy_lad

the cost of phone was approx 13 thousand rupee's so it was not a really cheap phone

foggy_lad

miju wrote:

well in that case small claims court or accepting the offer is the only option

off topic for a sec, i had no idea 3s call centre was in India. Apart from the other horror stories i've head about 3 this is another reason for not going with them anytime in the future.

the extra difficulty of understanding dialects makes it impossible to carry on any business with customer care in india but this is what three want! if customers are feeling quilty about arguing with people that dont understand they usually calm down and accept the shoddy service!

miju

foggy_lad wrote:

the extra difficulty of understanding dialects makes it impossible to carry on any business with customer care in india but this is what three want! if customers are feeling quilty about arguing with people that dont understand they usually calm down and accept the shoddy service!

exactly my point, a few UK companys I bought from on the net have their call centres in India and while the problems were resolved quick enough I found it next to impossible to understand them and I had to ask the guy to repeat himself nearly every sentence. (and I used to work in a very busy call centre listening to all sorts of accents and dialects etc so I'd be pretty confident at understanding them)

so basically any company with an indian based call centre i now avoid

foggy_lad

well i love the nokia n73 and want three's bill-pay cos of nice cheap easy to understand rates(unlike o2) but after paying €230 for phone i cant accept one that is faulty which they cant fix. get yer finger out three cos i know ye are watching here!

h57xiucj2z946q

its bugs in the firmware. I just flashed to the latest firmware and bugs youj describe no longer exist.

Sam Vimes

miju wrote:

eh yes there is every ground for the small claims court here and he'd win hands down.

replacement should be of the same of same model not a cheaper one. anyway OP read this. I think your phone clearly falls under model not being available category here

good luck and keep us updated

lets be clear here. He is never ever ever entitled to a refund. The most he will get is a replacement. He got the same model 3 times and doesn't want that one anymore. The k800 is almost the same as the n73 in spec so its a good swap. He should get the difference in price back

in my years in phone shops, the only people who ever got refunds were the ones who became so incredibly annoying that the manager decided to take the hit personally. he's allowed discount a certain amount of stuff each month to increase sales and the refund would come out of that instead of being sent back to head office like a normal one. They were never entitled to them

foggy_lad

Kathryn Harsh Meaty wrote:

its bugs in the firmware. I just flashed to the latest firmware and bugs youj describe no longer exist.

ha i tried all that on the nokia site and in their forums but the latest firmware can not be installed as this is a branded phone and tthree wont allow the neccessary updates

foggy_lad

Commander Vimes wrote:

lets be clear here. He is never ever ever entitled to a refund. The most he will get is a replacement. He got the same model 3 times and doesn't want that one anymore. The k800 is almost tie same as the k800 in spec so its a good swap. He should get the difference in price back

in my years in phone shops, the only people who ever got refunds were the ones who became so incredibly annoying that the manager decided to take the hit personally. he's allowed discount a certain amount of stuff each month to increase sales and the refund would come out of that instead of being sent back to head office like a normal one. They were never entitled to them

well thanks for your opinion but maybe you should check your facts? i have the phone one month and i asked for a refund last time this happened but three refused and as this is the exact same problem each time it does not matter how often three or their carlow store replace this n73 it will still be faulty and as such they have an obligation under sale of goods(supply of seervices) act to deal with this issue as if it is still the 1st time i have reported ie: last month. they had an obligation to repair(they cant) replace(that failed three times) or refund in full and the clock for warranty purposes etc stopped when i 1st brought it to their attention!

foggy_lad

how do most phone store employees sleep at night? they are lying to people just to earn money! thats pure evil!

Sam Vimes

foggy_lad wrote:

well thanks for your opinion but maybe you should check your facts? i have the phone one month and i asked for a refund last time this happened but three refused and as this is the exact same problem each time it does not matter how often three or their carlow store replace this n73 it will still be faulty and as such they have an obligation under sale of goods(supply of seervices) act to deal with this issue as if it is still the 1st time i have reported ie: last month. they had an obligation to repair(they cant) replace(that failed three times) or refund in full and the clock for warranty purposes etc stopped when i 1st brought it to their attention!

its not my opinion, its the policy followed by every phone shop im tie country

you were entitled to a refund on the first one because that was within 28 days but you took a replacement and you have had that for more than 28 days so you can't get a refund on it. The fact that it is the same fault is only relevant if you got the handset repaired but you got a brand new handset each time. My shop has sold hundreds of N73s. Do you think every one of them has come back faulty?


under the legislation you are entitled to a repair, replacement or refund. You got 3 replacements and now are getting a different model of almost identical spec and some money back. Whats the problem here?

and who's lying?

nazoil

This is very simple. Your contract for supply of phone is with 3 store in Carlow. The phone is not fit for purpose. The replacements are not fit for purpose. So the only acceptable remedy is a full refund of €229 from the 3 store in Carlow and you return the phone.

Having received the refund, you may then decide to enter a new contract with the 3 store in Carlow for the purchase of a K800i.

If I was in the same boat as you, I would not be wasting time calling customer care. I would call to the 3 store and ask to speak to the person in charge. I would be polite but firm. I would insist on a full refund. NOTHING LESS, and then having got my refund, choose whether I want to purchase a different phone or not

Sam Vimes

I remember the days when you were singing the praises of 3 and i was telling you they're crap. Ah memories

miju

Commander Vimes wrote:

lets be clear here. He is never ever ever entitled to a refund.

indeed lets be clear, he has had 3 new phones all not working....he is perfectly entitled to a refund....that is the law in this country whether you like to think so or not

Commander Vimes wrote:

its not my opinion, its the policy followed by every phone shop im tie country

because something is store policy does not mean its actually right

Commander Vimes wrote:

you were entitled to a refund on the first one because that was within 28 days but you took a replacement and you have had that for more than 28 days so you can't get a refund on it. The fact that it is the same fault is only relevant if you got the handset repaired but you got a brand new handset each time. My shop has sold hundreds of N73s. Do you think every one of them has come back faulty?

dunno where to start with this one except to say you obviously dont know anything about consumer law

Commander Vimes wrote:

under the legislation you are entitled to a repair, replacement or refund. You got 3 replacements and now are getting a different model of almost identical spec and some money back. Whats the problem here?

the problem is the "some money part". you can be sure as hell if they were offering him an upgrade on the phone instead they would be charging him the full price difference not "some" of the difference

i suggest you check out this site before posting here again :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

nazoil wrote:

This is very simple. Your contract for supply of phone is with 3 store in Carlow. The phone is not fit for purpose. The replacements are not fit for purpose. So the only acceptable remedy is a full refund of €229 from the 3 store in Carlow and you return the phone.

Having received the refund, you may then decide to enter a new contract with the 3 store in Carlow for the purchase of a K800i.

If I was in the same boat as you, I would not be wasting time calling customer care. I would call to the 3 store and ask to speak to the person in charge. I would be polite but firm. I would insist on a full refund. NOTHING LESS, and then having got my refund, choose whether I want to purchase a different phone or not

100% agree here

Sam Vimes

I can guarantee you 100% that that is the policy phone shops follow. I was under the assumption that they checked with someone before enacting this policy and in all my years i've never seen it successfully challenged, (except in previously mentioned cases of very annoying people) but apparently i was wrong.

miju, i nominate you to go to every phone shop in the country and tell them they're breaking the law

by the way, one of the people who failed to change the policy was a consumer lawyer by profession

miju

it might be the policy that shops follow (though how you'd know 100% of the phone stores policy is anyones guess) but again the law does not say anything about 28 days then tough NOR does it say stores dont have to give a refund either.

If this was to end up in the small claims court the OP would win hands down. If you bought a car for €20,000 brand new and it broke down after a month and they said the same to you what would your response be? the product has to be fit for purpose and for a reasonable amount of time.

its perfectly clear in this case that the 3 phones were not

Sam Vimes

miju wrote:

If this was to end up in the small claims court the OP would win hands down. If you bought a car for €20,000 brand new and it broke down after a month and they said the same to you what would your response be? the product has to be fit for purpose and for a reasonable amount of time.

its perfectly clear in this case that the 3 phones were not

yes and at that point he got a different model and money back. In my shop he'd get back exactly the difference between the n73 and the k800 on his tariff. I wouldn't say its any more than e30. As i said they're very similar. However, if the price difference is more than e30 then they're not giving him enough

miju

Commander Vimes wrote:

However, if the price difference is more than e30 then they're not giving him enough

lollers, that exactly the problem, they're not giving him the full difference back

foggy_lad

Commander Vimes wrote:

yes and at that point he got a different model and money back. In my shop he'd get back exactly the difference between the n73 and the k800 on his tariff. I wouldn't say its any more than e30. As i said they're very similar. However, if the price difference is more than e30 then they're not giving him enough

again please check facts i paid €229 for the 1st n73 plus €19 a month. they replaced that after less than a week and under current law and from previous cases which dont spring to mind "if the repair or replacement fails within a reasonable time the warranty period reverts to the time of 1st notification to the store/company" meaning that the repair or replacement does not count in the warranty timeframe!
i am on replacement number three now and three have offerred me a sony k800i without X-SERIES(no skype orb sling mobicast etc) this phone costs exactly €100 LESS yet three have REFUSED to refund this amount instead they offered €30 goodwill after a month of long calls to india to people that cant make decisions on €1 nevermind €100! so to finish they propose taking back a €229 faulty phone and replacing it with €129 phone plus €30 leaving me down by €70 and NO GOODWILL FROM THREE!:mad:
PS : THANKS TO WHOEVER MOVED THIS TO THE CORRECT FORUM

Doctor DooM

I also have worked in phone sales and have had similar experiences to Commander Vimes.

He knows his facts and perhaps you should listen to the advice of someone with insider knowledge, no offence meant.

I would say however that I am suprised at this point that 3 have not offered better service. If it were the company I have worked for, you would already have your money back (at the companies discretion) with the 3rd return.

This would be my main point in dealing with them further on the issue.

foggy_lad

being honest i am not interested in phone store policy as this is blatently biased towards the store making as much as possible regardless and do not appreciate employees posting clearly inflamitary comments. it does not help. it seems phone store policy is the stuff that makes a good halloween?

Sam Vimes

Foggy_lad, go into a store and say you want to exchange the n73 for the k800. When they put the exchange through it'll automatically come up as -100 and you should get the difference. If you want x series, ask for an e65 instead. I'm posting from one now and its great


the problem here i think is that you're experiencing the problem with 3 that i told you you would experience very soon after joining, ie the customer care sucks donkey balls

they tried to do something similar to me last year. I managed to get it sorted without involving the courts

foggy_lad

Commander Vimes wrote:

Foggy_lad, go into a store and say you want to exchange the n73 for the k800. When they put the exchange through it'll automatically come up as -100 and you should get the difference. If you want x series, ask for an e65 instead. I'm posting from one now and its great


the problem here i think is that you're experiencing the problem with 3 that i told you you would experience very soon after joining, ie the customer care sucks donkey balls

they tried to do something similar to me last year. I managed to get it sorted without involving the courts

customer care have already said they will replace the phone with a k800i but they are unable to give more than €30 euro cos apparently three do not trust their own customer care with money?? the broadbandless sucks but i got the phone for calls and it is rubbish! the service is fine but this nokia n73 is a faulty peice of crap that my doggy wouldn't piddle on! and nokia have told me in their forums that they offer updates but three wont accept said updates leaving repair of handset impossible. jeez i need a pint in a gallon jug think i'll go on the lash and fire phone through the shop window

foggy_lad

hi Gerry and all in the "GRS" office,

I bought a nokia n73 in the Carlow "three" store on 31/08/07. paid €229
I brought the phone back on 04/09/07 as software had failed! The phone crashed as the salesperson was examining it! I got a replacement phone because i insisted as the salesperson wanted to send it for repair!!
3 weeks later the software in this phone also failed! The store refused to replace or refund as three are UNABLE to repair this fault so i contacted customer care in india who arranged a 2nd replacement! this arrived a week later on 03/10/07 and i immediately noticed it also had the same faults as the other phones! so
i rang customer care again and they offered me a sony ericsson phone costing €129 which has same camera but NO X-SERIES(skype,orb,sling etc)
the main problem is the software! nokia have several updates available for the n73 but three do not allow these "fixes" for their customers phones! in esscence three are selling faulty phones which require this update to work properly yet they will not repair customers phones with this update three will only re-flash(re-install the same software) the faulty software meaning customers are left with unuseable phones!
so because "three" can not supply any working n73 phone i will lose €100? dont think so gerry think its time for the SMALL CLAIMS COURT!
this only applies to the "three branded nokia n73"!

Gerry i think i have been more than patient after several 2-hour long calls to customer care in india but their latest offer leaves me cold!
From the 1st time i brought this to their attention they have failed to repair, replace or refund and now they have offered me an inferior phone
and credit of €30 leaving me €70 short of the original phone price!

Original n73 cost €229
Replacement k800i cost €129
Leaving a balance of €100 less the paltry sum the offered as "GOODWILL"

hope you can warn others about this situation

kind regards

nazoil

Did you post this issue looking for advice?

If so why don't you heed the advice. Go back, get a refund and just forget about it. If the other party to your Contract, ie the 3 store in Carlow absolutely refuses to honour it's committment under the law by refusing to refund you, then report them. I would ask for refusal in writing and the grounds for refusal

You are wasting your time talking to 3 Customer Care.

foggy_lad

waited and rang customer care again this morning who are sending the sony k800i plus they are giving the full difference in price as a credit to my account and they are recording this as a "part refund" in conjunction with the k800i, rather than as "goodwill"! so all is well again even though i am now left without skype etc but none of that X-Series stuff works anyway with them strangling their mppbile BB network to keep data modem customers happy!

p.s. was talking to joshua in india this morning and just to say thanks for all the help!

phonefanatic

What exactly is the fault you are having? Have you experienced this fault with other phones? Have you had this problem with other retailers/networks? If so, could they provide a resolution? Was the fault evident in store to the sales consultant? If not, they were well within their rights to offer you an engineers assessment instead of a replacement.

foggy_lad

phonefanatic wrote:

What exactly is the fault you are having? Have you experienced this fault with other phones? Have you had this problem with other retailers/networks? If so, could they provide a resolution? Was the fault evident in store to the sales consultant? If not, they were well within their rights to offer you an engineers assessment instead of a replacement.

camera not working, freezing up phone, camera sounds not working, menus very slow, menus freezing, 3d ringtones changing on their own, msn disconnecting, oyher applications not working and phone turning off on its own......etc

3 nokia n73's in 4 weeks all had same issues

only with "3"branded n73 handsets

1st phone crashed as salesperson was looking at it saying it was perfect, noyhing wrong with it!

they offered repair but they do not repair they only re-flash the same faulty software version.
i insisted on a replacement 1st time as it was only 4days after buying the phone and from then they failed to fix the problem as all three n73 handsets have software issues according to nokia.
and i dont like pizza!

miju

congrats foggy lad you got your rights in the end or as good as

eth0_

3 are fscking morons. I can't believe they are still selling n73's if they admit there is a fault with their 3 branded firmware! Why don't they FIX the firmware and let the stores re-flash them, instead of getting all this (deserved) flak from customers like foggy_lad?

foggy_lad if I were you i'd have asked for a refund and left their network.

phonefanatic

229 - 167 = E100?????????????????????????????????


229 Minus 167 = E62

foggy_lad

yeah thanks was painless enough in end when got talking to someone who listened rather than read the "3" statements from thier cue cards

foggy_lad

phonefanatic wrote:

229 - 167 = E100?????????????????????????????????


229 Minus 167 = E62

Original n73 cost €229
Replacement k800i cost €129
Leaving a balance of €100 less the paltry sum they offered as "GOODWILL"

they originally only offered €30 with the sony k800i, WITHOUT the price difference of €100 meaning if i had accepted that offer i would lose out by €70. I cant see any reference in this thread to the €167 figure you have quoted?
oops see it now well that€38 was offered as a goodwill geature not as part refund so i did not count it as part refund!

hitbit

3 suck to high hell. I have nasty nasty experience of this shower of, I can't say this here. Watch out for their refunds. They refunded me and six months later had a debt collection agency threaten me with prison if I did not pay them " the money I had already paid and which they had refunded". Many of my friends who switched to 3 for the cheaper prices have switched back to Vodafone because they simply could not handle the number of dropped calls on 3.
They have to refund you the full cost of the dodgy phone they sold you, you are protected by law here. Take no crap, ask them to explain in writing why they won't do this then take it up the Small Claims Court. You will win hands down. Then go buy a decent phone from a decent provider. Best of luck.

hitbit

Sam Vimes

hitbit wrote: »

3 suck to high hell. I have nasty nasty experience of this shower of, I can't say this here. Watch out for their refunds. They refunded me and six months later had a debt collection agency threaten me with prison if I did not pay them " the money I had already paid and which they had refunded". Many of my friends who switched to 3 for the cheaper prices have switched back to Vodafone because they simply could not handle the number of dropped calls on 3.
They have to refund you the full cost of the dodgy phone they sold you, you are protected by law here. Take no crap, ask them to explain in writing why they won't do this then take it up the Small Claims Court. You will win hands down. Then go buy a decent phone from a decent provider. Best of luck.

hitbit

you're a bit late mate. 4 months late

tampopo

Sam Vimes wrote: »

you're a bit late mate. 4 months late

yeah, but I was thinking of moving to three from Meteor and I wouldn't have seen it otherwise, so, I'm happy to see it, at least.

Sam Vimes

tampopo wrote: »

yeah, but I was thinking of moving to three from Meteor and I wouldn't have seen it otherwise, so, I'm happy to see it, at least.

yeah don't move to three. you'll regret it