Krav Maga

kravist

For those who dont know what Krav Maga is all about..here's a flavour.
Yes the attackers are compliant and yet there are some technical mistakes, nonetheless these are the types of techniques that should be trained at in a Krav Class.

http://www.youtube.com/v/E4Pn6ENeIh4">

O'Leprosy

kravist wrote:

For those who dont know what Krav Maga is all about..here's a flavour.
Yes the attackers are compliant and yet there are some technical mistakes, nonetheless these are the types of techniques that should be trained at in a Krav Class.

http://www.youtube.com/v/E4Pn6ENeIh4">

Link not working.

kravist

http://www.youtube.com/v/E4Pn6ENeIh4
apologies..i never deleted the final ">..it should work from there.
quality is far poorer than i thought..still!

Knowing how much you LOVE Krav Maga...i do hope it works for you now.lol

mayhem#

Are there any schools/instructors in Ireland?

E.

kravist

mayhem# wrote: »

Are there any schools/instructors in Ireland?

E.

At the moment there are 2 IKMF clubs/instructors recognised in Ireland
my club in Castlebar which were the guys seen in the demo www.kravmagawest.com

or Aidan Carrol in Dublin, www.kravmaga.ie

I see from your post youre based in Tipp, if you were interested i'll be running a seminar in Limerick Nov 25, venue and times to be confirmed.

mickoo

kravist wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/v/E4Pn6ENeIh4
quality is far poorer than i thought.

Im glad you said it cause now i dont have too, did he shoot the fella in the end?
looked like an episode of wwe only acted out by spotty teens!!
when can i start?

Musashi

If your based in Tipp. why not check out David Lewis of http://www.kapap.ie/

A real nice guy, trains hard, hits hard and wants you to do the same. He also organises fun seminars with guys like Avi Nardia and Mick Coup! You could do a lot worse!

Roper

I don't generally post on things like this but really if you want to put what what you do out there you'd want to pick a better clip for a start. The second thing is that most of it is what I would have expected to be taught in a self defence section in my old tae kwon do club. Things glommed from other martial arts, a takedown here, a wrist lock there. I have a fairly poor opinion of Krav Maga based on what I've seen and I've never been given a reason to change that.

cowzerp

This is pretty poor alright, krav maga is a money making racket imo and most people in the martial art know this..

arybvtcw0eolkf

cowzerp wrote: »

This is pretty poor alright, krav maga is a money making racket imo and most people in the martial art know this..

kravist

cowzerp wrote: »

krav maga is a money making racket imo and most people in the martial art know this..

Laughable and pretty pathetic.
I never cease to be amazed at how belittling of other systems MMA enthusiasts can be here on boards and get away with it.

Mairt....interesting..the word "Sheep" springs to mind.

Mickoo...the reference to "spotty teens"..also very interesting. It's usually the case that when someone comments in such a manner, they're reflecting their own experiences.
Be strong Mickoo...even with your obvious low self esteem...Jesus Loves You!!


Roper, a reasonable post, but i'd recommend you base your opinion more on what you've tried rather than what you've seen.

The FitnessDock

Whenever Krav Maga is mentioned on these forums, it seems that those who pay it the least respect are those who practise Mixed Martial Arts (MMA).

With that said, it might me worth mentioning Moni Aizik, the founder of Combat Survival-Commando Krav Maga. It's a blend of Krav Maga, Jiu Jitsu and Judo. His students include: Carlos Newton - (Pride, UFC and Vale Tudo Champion), who he's cornered many times.

Here's an interesting site: http://www.kravmaga-ckm.com/kravmagahistory.htm

For the record, I'm a big fan of both Krav Maga and MMA.

PAUL

mickoo

kravist wrote: »

Mickoo...the reference to "spotty teens"..also very interesting. It's usually the case that when someone comments in such a manner, they're reflecting their own experiences.
Be strong Mickoo...even with your obvious low self esteem...Jesus Loves You!!

Thanks Kravist, your right i was a spotty teen and still have the mental scars!!

im also an mma fan and think cowzerp is right, he only said what the consensus is on krav maga from the m a world, as he teaches mma for non profit due to his love of combat sports, only charging enough to buy new equipment i can see his point when less effective training systems are charging excessive money.

personally i feel if there willing to pay it, all power to you, but this does not change the fact that you put up an embarrasing video and then criticise people when they state the obvious. and thanks, i know jesus loves me and even loves krav maga instructors too..

cowzerp

kravist wrote: »

Laughable and pretty pathetic.
I never cease to be amazed at how belittling of other systems MMA enthusiasts can be here on boards and get away with it.
.

I like other systems-Kickboxing, boxing, bjj, judo, muay thai, but also dislike lots of systems due to there unrealistic approaches and false claims, what your man was doing in that video is hilarious!! please tell me thats you?

what i know of krav is stuff like you showed me and its brutal to be honest..get a beetter clip and i might change my opinion on it, i can only judge what i see..

yomchi

Just to add some opinion from a guy who teaches reality based stuff. Richard Demitri from Canada, doing a seminar for Krav Maga in Finland.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qxIcnaXHDk

part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOzi4dJK37I

Baggio...

I'll just throw my two cents in....

KM does have a bit of a bad rap when it comes to being a money machine. From some of the guys I talked to over the years it appears to me that it has been marketed quite ruthlessly, and some groups are very very over priced indeed. That said, I'm sure that there are some good guys out there and willing to pass on the system (in the same way Gerry is) at a fair price. So it's not really fair to tar everyone with the same brush.

Re. the clip - As I've said before I'm not really a big fan of "specific defenses" and don't use them myself per se. But the guy in the clip seemed pretty sharp (not sure if that was yourself Kravist). I found myself, and for most other people, that under pressure specific defenses tend to fall apart, and all your left with is gross motor skills (so there the skills we concentrate on).

However, if the compliancy is thrown out the window, and if those KM guys can make it work at full speed and power (ie while someone is wearing boxing gloves and trying to knock you out). Then you've got a good idea if the system will work or fail in a real situation. This method of pressure testing can, and should be applied to all systems to gage their effectiveness.

Baggio...

Jon wrote: »

Just to add some opinion from a guy who teaches reality based stuff. Richard Demitri from Canada, doing a seminar for Krav Maga in Finland.

Very cool clips.... Dimitri makes a lot of sense. That's what happens when you through compliancy out the window.

"Feeling is believing" to quote Peter Consterdine.

kravist

cowzerp wrote: »

I like other systems-Kickboxing, boxing, bjj, judo, muay thai, but also dislike lots of systems due to there unrealistic approaches and false claims, what your man was doing in that video is hilarious!! please tell me thats you?

Yes..its me alright!!

SO, you teach in a non profit manner..have to say, if youre training less well off members of society, hats off to you, i genuinely respect that..........
however...sounds suspiciously like GAA inter county managers for my liking....!

dlofnep

I saw the Krav Maga episode of Human Weapon and I was very impressed. Their techniques were practical and their training was very functional. Mind you this was directly in Israel so I've no idea how watered down it is in Ireland.

The FitnessDock

dlofnep wrote: »

Mind you this was directly in Israel so I've no idea how watered down it is in Ireland.

That's what I've always wondered when people on this board totally dismiss Krav Maga.

If KM is so useless, why is it the official self-defense/hand-to-hand combat system of the Israeli Defence Force and Special Forces?

Do people on this board believe that ALL KM is useless?

Regardless of how it's marketed, it should surely be ultimately judged on whether its any good or not. What people choose to charge for teaching (whether for free or for hundreds of Euro), it is their business and no one elses.

Jon - thanks for those clips - excellent stuff

Tim_Murphy

If KM is so useless, why is it the official self-defense/hand-to-hand combat system of the Israeli Defence Force and Special Forces?

I met quiet a few Israelis travelling last year so we're just after finishing their few years in the army. I was chatting to a few of them about hand-to-hand and they said they hadn't really done any, it wasn't a big thing with them and why would it be I suppose. Armies don't fight hand-hand. I don't really get why people think that a military system would be some kind of authority on un armed combat.

Of course the simple truth is that any system will be decent if it is trained in a functional way and any system won't be if it isn't.

Colm_OReilly

I only watched that clip yesterday. Seemed like a lot of Kenpo techniques I'd trained in for years - then I got rudely awoken.

As for MMA guys jumping on KM. Well, a lot of MMA guys used to do a traditional martial art, and feel somewhat cheated once they start MMA - as such they're less tolerant of what they perceive to be BS.

Secondly, MMA guys by and large will be more critical of MAs, wanting to test everything they hear.

Thirdly, some MMA guys are arrogant. This must also be recognised.

Concerning the Israeli army. Why is George W. Bush the president if he's so incompetent? He's good at getting elected. Regretably, for a large proportion of affairs in the world, what's in place is what was sold as the best solution, and not necessarily the best solution.

Roper

I would say that anything's price is determined by demand, not by effectiveness so I really think the debate on how expensive Krav Maga is is pretty pointless.

Kravist,
I've had no experience training KM but I've had a few lads train with me who have done it. Their opinion after a few weeks of training combat sports against resisting opponents has always been that most of what they learned in KM wouldn't work. Again this is 2nd hand opinion so I won't attempt to pass it on as my own, and maybe they were just bad students, or didn't attend classes regularly enough etc. etc.

dlofnep

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3bjzpoWVMA

The Krav Maga challenge on human weapon. :X

mickoo

dlofnep wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3bjzpoWVMA

The Krav Maga challenge on human weapon. :X

That is a joke i hope-lol

dlofnep

mickoo wrote: »

That is a joke i hope-lol

Nope?

I suggest everyone from an MMA background to watch the full episode. Their training was very functional and application was practical.

cletus

dlofnep, i think i saw that episode, and the thing that sticks with me most is the gun disarms in the forest (is this the right episode?). I have never done km, but i was left wondering why, if you had a gun, would you bother getting close enough to your target to allow him place a hand on the weapon.

having said that, I'm personally not a fan of weapons training, i train for fun, just like football etc.

Baggio...

dlofnep wrote: »

Their training was very functional and application was practical.

Hey,

It's definitely a step in the right direction. Already you can see that the moves are starting to degrade with that extra bit of pressure (as one would expect). That said, he's still managing to use his techniques - which is good sign of course .

However, I'd still like to see them done under "full force and pressure" (i.e. - against all out boxing or punching). It's the only way I could say that those techniques will work under real fighting conditions. Until then I'm going to sit on the fence about K.M.

The FitnessDock

Thanks for the replies guys.

As I said, I'm a huge fan of both MMA and Krav Maga so I'm not biased either way - just curious to hear the opinions from practitioners of both.

Many were quick to answer my question regarding the Israeli army's supposed use of KM.

However, no-one has answered my earlier question regarding the MMA professional fighters who have trained in KM and endorse it.

Why would one-time UFC champion Carlos Newton train under a KM expert if it couldn't apply it in a "high pressure real life situation" such as a fight against a world-class MMA fighter?

Any takers?

Cheers,

PAUL

cowzerp

The FitnessDock wrote: »

Thanks for the replies guys.

As I said, I'm a huge fan of both MMA and Krav Maga so I'm not biased either way - just curious to hear the opinions from practitioners of both.

Many were quick to answer my question regarding the Israeli army's supposed use of KM.

However, no-one has answered my earlier question regarding the MMA professional fighters who have trained in KM and endorse it.

Why would one-time UFC champion Carlos Newton train under a KM expert if it couldn't apply it in a "high pressure real life situation" such as a fight against a world-class MMA fighter?

Any takers?

Cheers,

PAUL

It could be a nice little earner for him to teach krav maga on the side or at the end of his career, or he could be friends with the instructors and trying to give them exposure!! who knows. or the future of mma will use hand guns!

Baggio...

The FitnessDock wrote: »

However, no-one has answered my earlier question regarding the MMA professional fighters who have trained in KM and endorse it.

Not that I'm into mma.... I remember seeing Bas Rutten showing KM techniques a number of times - mainly, gun, knife and hold defenses (See Bas Rutten's lethal street fighting DVD). Bas himself is one hard 'bastich and is a complete legend in the ring (and out of it). That said... it does not make him a "self-protection guru" He's well tough, but it does not mean he knows how to pass on the knowledge to the average bod (especially outside the ring).

The techniques I saw in his vid were pretty convoluted and elongated, and in my opinion, would not have worked under real pressure. But Bas thought they were the best things going. Why? because he never pressure tested, or analyzed them properly. He just took the word of a few of his mates who were KM instructors, and were just helping him out making the DVD.

I'm not saying those techs he used in the vid were the best of the best of Krav Maga. But the debate can easily be put to rest by simply going "all out" with your techniques. If they work under that type of duress - you're sorted!:) But until I see it (regardless of the style) I wont put my faith in it.

Just my take.

arybvtcw0eolkf

kravist wrote: »

Mairt....interesting..the word "Sheep" springs to mind.

Baaaa ... search my posts ... I've done K.M. with the IDF in Israel, first time was back in 1988 and last time was when I competed against them at Wingate UNI, Netanya 2001 (Judo) ... BAAA ... In Ireland at least I agree (Baaaaaaaaaaaa) wholeheartedly with Paul.

K.M. in Ireland (at least) is B.S.

But thats just my opinion. Whatever floats your boat.

Personally I train Judo for fun, and as a sport. I could give a flying fvck about anything else right at the moment.

Peace

yomchi

cowzerp

Jon wrote: »

Where did you get that pic of mairt? kravist is funny calling mairt a sheep-he's the 1 man who has no problem saying it as it is...maybe he does not read mairts posts-:D

Baggio...

Jon wrote: »

Class....

arybvtcw0eolkf

cowzerp wrote: »

kravist is funny calling mairt a sheep-he's the 1 man who has no problem saying it as it is...maybe he does not read mairts posts-:D

kravist

cowzerp wrote: »

Where did you get that pic of mairt? kravist is funny calling mairt a sheep-he's the 1 man who has no problem saying it as it is...maybe he does not read mairts posts-:D

Infatuated by me or what....im flattered...and hating to break it to you, you've a better chance with those inflatable sheep!

cowzerp

kravist wrote: »

Infatuated by me or what....im flattered...

Actually i find you very boring-all you seem to write about is Krav maga and get on the defensive when people make genuine opinions known-you put up the shiity clip so if people think krav is shiity because of this its your own fault, i do find you entertaining though!

columok

kravist,

Calling people names and challenging their sexuality isn't a particularily mature platform to take.

I saw that clip and all of your protests to date on boards of "your" krav being different in quality from the other moneymakers seems a bit off. The krav in that video honestly looked like 99% of all the other ineffective self defence MA stuff I have ever seen.

Particularily escape from the tallaght headlock and escape from opponent having your back. Just seemed unbelievable.

TBH if I had to (and I wouldn't have to) train KM i'd seek out Gerry who'd tell me to go and to thai to a competitive level and then come back to him.

Colum

cowzerp

columok wrote: »

kravist,

Calling people names and challenging their sexuality isn't a particularily mature platform to take.

I saw that clip and all of your protests to date on boards of "your" krav being different in quality from the other moneymakers seems a bit off. The krav in that video honestly looked like 99% of all the other ineffective self defence MA stuff I have ever seen.
Colum

Well said colum, Some people dont like to hear the truth and this is not his 1st time using sexxual inuendo's to try and knock people either, The clip he has is the 1 on his krav maga home page too so must be his best clip, i'd be getting onto gerry too if i was forced to do krav maga-he is more honest about martial arts and generally trains in the more efficent 1,s muay thai and as far as i know was starting bjj a while back..

arybvtcw0eolkf

Where is Gerry?.

I miss that guy, and his honest opinon on Martial Arts. Always tells it like it is, and from personal experience.

Re. K.M. like I've said in the past. I've done some with the Israeli Defence Forces and even those guys tell me that its practiced very little in the IDF & just really showcased by them on occassion.

Most of the K.M. instructors I've spoken to in Israel were (primarily) Judoka, BJJ, Kickboxers and a multitude of other styles. I didn't meet one who thought K.M. was better and trained that alone.

westhamutd

Hi all

I do not wish to start an argument but I feel that Krav Maga is getting unfairly treated in this thread , as I have said before it is not perfect it knife defences and punching defences in some styles but it is important to note that Krav Maga is genral term and just like other martial arts their are virous styles, Kapap , Lotar , commando krav maga, tatical krav maga . I feel that a lot of peoples oppions have been based on Jerrys comments by people who have never praticed it. Jerry seems like a nice guy but he has personal issues with Patrick that i feel cloud his judgments also he is now teaching KM in the 2 day style that he critises so much. This is not ment as a critism of Gerry but just an attempt to add some balance . Most styles of combatives seem to me to be the same after there is only so many ways to hit smeone.

thanks westham:)

sorry did not spell check.

mickoo

westhamutd wrote: »

Hi all

I do not wish to start an argument but I feel that Krav Maga is getting unfairly treated in this thread , as I have said before it is not perfect it knife defences and punching defences in some styles but it is important to note that Krav Maga is genral term and just like other martial arts their are virous styles, Kapap , Lotar , commando krav maga, tatical krav maga .

Yes but the crappy video posted by kravist is crappy no matter what name is used-:o

westhamutd

Hi

thanks for your reply have you taken part in one of Kravist classes , i think it is hard to get across things in these videos and he is to be commended for posting the video , it would be nice if some of the people who are so critical of him would post videos of themselves training . Again i do not wish this to sound argumentive .

tks:)

Dragan

To be honest, the second i see anything involving knife defence i normally loose interest.

How many of the KM guys here have ever actually dealt with a knife in a live situation?

Just curious.

Baggio...

Dragan wrote: »

How many of the KM guys here have ever actually dealt with a knife in a live situation?

A very valid question to ask anyone who is teaching knife defense.


On a different note:
Fair play to Kravist for having the stones putting up the vid in the first place, and as I said previously I thought he looked pretty sharp (even if things, in my opinion, were on the compliant side).

You can't please everyone - so there are always going to be criticisms when you put something up in the public domain (that's life). Although both sides seem to be getting personal now (yes, I've been guilty of this myself in the past), but it just impedes any decent analysis of the clips and system.

Pity...

westhamutd

Hi all

sorry if my posts seemed to get personal that was not my point and I am sorry, I have only heard of 1 guy using knife defence , I must point out that this story was told to me and I don't know the guy who it happened to. There was a chap on hols in Prague when he was held up by knife point, he used the knife slap technique as practiced by Jim Wagner and was badly cut in the arms, and he went to hospital but survived.

tks

Baggio...

westhamutd wrote: »

sorry if my posts seemed to get personal that

Hey man,

Good to have you posting here again.:)

Hope you didn't think I was talking about your post? I was talking about some of the earlier posts (it definitely was not aimed at yourself).

Cheers,

Rob.

westhamutd

Hi Baggio

Its nice to here from you hows the training going , hope we can train together in the new year.

tks:)

Boru.

westhamutd wrote: »

Hi all

sorry if my posts seemed to get personal that was not my point and I am sorry, I have only heard of 1 guy using knife defence , I must point out that this story was told to me and I don't know the guy who it happened to. There was a chap on hols in Prague when he was held up by knife point, he used the knife slap technique as practiced by Jim Wagner and was badly cut in the arms, and he went to hospital but survived.

tks

On that - here's one of our (Jim Wagner Reality Based Personal Protection) training videos. This is how we train for a knife conflict. This was a military training seminar. The exact same material is covered in out civilian courses. Full speed, full power. Also some nice counter terrorism stuff at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WoCs82Pw1k&feature=related

You'll notice that we don't hold back and even trained military personnel get cut up badly. But they'll survive. If you're involved in a knife fighting situation you'll get cut. You will may be killed. The system trains people to increase the odds of survival, not the odds of being untouchable and pulling off fancy matrix movie bull ****.

Boru.

hmm what da ya know...that worked...hmm?