Women competing in the UFC ?

O'Leprosy

Well after watching 'Ash the Bash' demolish the Belgian girl last Saturday, I got to wonder, how long will it be before women compete in the UFC ?

I remember watching 2 women from the US in an MMA fight on Setanta 2 I think, and it was first class stuff, and that's not been patronising. Who knows, maybe 'Ash the Bash' may make it onto the UFC someday ?

Nothingcompares

Bodog, to the best of my knowledge, are pushing female MMA the most and have the best fighters. I'm sure JK and Ais would jump at the chance to fight in that promotion.

vasch_ro

elite xc have put female matches in their last two shows , both of which have been very entertaining and skilful and featured Gina Carano

In a few short years, the talented, crowd-pleasing Carano has become one of the most recognizable figures in MMA. The undefeated Muay Thai specialist is an extremely powerful striker and is considered to be MMA's top women's prospect. In her history-making last fight, the rising superstar defeated Julie Kedzie in the fight of the night in the EliteXC "DESTINY" event on Feb. 10. It was the first women's MMA bout televised on a premium television network (SHOWTIME)

Nothingcompares

yeah gina is probably the biggest name in female mma. I don't think she's really that good though :eek: :eek: :eek:

dunkamania

Dana is against it,so dont expect to see it in the UFC anytime soon.

Fair play to Ais,fight of the night.Ian Freeman's intro annoyed me as I felt the girls deserved the same respect the other fighters got,especially considering the excuses he was making for Andy Foreman.:(

Vince135792003

dunkamania wrote:

Dana is against it,so dont expect to see it in the UFC anytime soon.

He's softened his attitude about it. Before in interviews he would say he was dead against it. At the recent UFC conference call though, he didn't rule it out in the future.

fatal

It would give MMA an even worse name in the media and therefore I dont think that its gonna happen anytime soon

Colm_OReilly

What was said in the intro?

siochain

sorry for going off topic, any links to vid's of last sat night.

A tread was started on Sunday but its been removed. PM any links.

cheers

dunkamania

Colm_OReilly wrote:

What was said in the intro?

I cant remember the exact words,it was quite sleazy,I wasnt impressed.

Pride Fighter

It will never happen as Dana White is a sexist pig!! EliteXC will probably introduce belts for women soon enough so that may be the biggest org for women soon enough.

Fozzy

I can understand why Dana is against women in UFC from a business standpoint. They've risen above most of the "human cockfighting" attitudes, but they're still largely prevalent. Having women fighting will just give the anti-MMA people a new incentive

Gina Carano and her opponent (can't remember her name now...possibly Julie McKenzie?) on an EliteXC show earlier this year had one of the best fights of the night. But Carano's last fight wasn't great. I don't think she's as talented as the hype would have you believe, but it's good that she's getting a chance, along with other women

Colm_OReilly

Let's be honest, Dana White is little more than a business man, he does not care for MMA or fighters. He just wants to market the UFC as another product/commodity.

That's essentially it.

Now what he would need for Female MMA:
A technical fight (he can't guarantee it)
Little/no blood
The fighters not getting overly upset/crying if they lost
Eloquent/"ladylike" outside the ring and in interviews

It would generate a lot of publicity for him, and I'm sure he could use it to boost ticket sales. I think he'll wait to see another show do it and then poach the fighter with a sweet deal.

Nothingcompares

If I was in Dana White's position I'd jump at the opportunity to bring women to the UFC (of course, it may be obvious but I'll state it anyway, in their own woman's league) who were at the right standard. When women start playing the mma game at a level comparable to the level its played at by men, then is the time to put it on the tv.

dlofnep

I'm going to be honest here - I don't care to see women fight in mma or boxing. I've been watching boxing for years before MMA and I never once followed the female scene. Never had an interest in it.

Now that doesn't mean I don't respect women and the time they put into their training. I do, and I admire what they face, not only their opponent but the naysayer rightwingers.. It's not a matter of what's "wrong".. Women belong in MMA as much as much.. but personally - as far as fights go - I'd rather see to guys throw down..

I don't think we'll see women in the UFC within the next 5-6 years.

mickoo

dlofnep wrote:

I'm going to be honest here - I don't care to see women fight in mma or boxing.
Now that doesn't mean I don't respect women and the time they put into their training. I do, and I admire what they face, not only their opponent but the naysayer rightwingers.. It's not a matter of what's "wrong".. Women belong in MMA as much as much.. but personally - as far as fights go - I'd rather see to guys throw down..

Agreed-women deserve the respect for training hard and having the balls!!! to give it a go, but the standard of female fighters is low and fighting is not a very natural thing for females-Men are the protectors and are made too fight physically and mentally, am i sexist? NO, women fighting looks shabby and people are horrified to see a girl getting bashed, most female fighters come across butch anyway so its not exactly girly. i prefer girls to play girly sports-camogie volleyball and badminton and men to play mens sports-boxing mma rugby etc..although i still believe it should be the ladies choice if she wants to take part in masculine sports .

dunkamania

I think the major issue is a lack of depth of in the womans division in general.

Given how few female compared to male,practitioners of MMA,it would be extremely difficult to field a female card of the same level as an average second tier's organisation male fight card.

mirwillbeback

No disrespect to anyone involved, but if MMA has only just been accepted into the mainstream, the sight of two ladies slugging it out and bloody will not do it any favours.
Call me sexist, but as in the recent Women's Soccer World Cup, it only serves to highlight the huge gap in physical ability between those at the highest level in the respective genders.
Flame away!

dunkamania

mirwillbeback wrote:

Call me sexist, but as in the recent Women's Soccer World Cup, it only serves to highlight the huge gap in physical ability between those at the highest level in the respective genders.
Flame away!

Consider that almost every male in Ireland has played at the very least,a few hours of soccer or similar ball sport,wheras the number of females who would have similar expierience is considerably lower.In a hypothethical society,where 90+% of females played soccer reguarly versus -10% of males would you still expect the standard to be higher for males for what is a skill sport.

Vince135792003

Colm_OReilly wrote:

Let's be honest, Dana White is little more than a business man, he does not care for MMA or fighters. He just wants to market the UFC as another product/commodity.
.

I think that is way too simplistic to say he does not care. Its not a product he's marketing. He's attempting to market but essentially establish MMA as a general sport in the US which will ultimately lead to his and the UFC's benefit.

I think its in his interest to care about MMA. For the general audience, the UFC is MMA and they've probably done more to enhance the general image of the sport than anyone else over the last 12 months.

Roper

mirwillbeback wrote:

No disrespect to anyone involved, but if MMA has only just been accepted into the mainstream, the sight of two ladies slugging it out and bloody will not do it any favours.
Call me sexist, but as in the recent Women's Soccer World Cup, it only serves to highlight the huge gap in physical ability between those at the highest level in the respective genders.
Flame away!

Okay, since you invited it...

Women's soccer versus men's soccer isn't a valid comparison as that is a male dominated sport, with little or no opportunity for women to make a living or turn pro out of it. Of course they were worse than the men, they were part timers!

But take sports where women and men are on a par- athletics, tennis etc. For me, Women's tennis is infinitely more watchable than mens. Same technical acumen on display, however a fall off in power means more rallying, more excitement etc.

Athletics is probably the best comparison. Off the top of my head, lets take the triple jump, an EXTREMELY difficult, technical discipline. The men's record is 18.9 metres I think and the womens is somewhere near 16. There's 3 metres of, to quote you, a "gap in physical ability". However, the same technique, the same mastery, the same commitment is required to compete at a world level. Just because a woman falls short should nobody bother with the women's record?

Saying that men are stronger than women is a given. We KNOW this, nobody is telling us anything new there. But saying that men are stronger than women ergo women's sport is rubbish is just silly and betrays a lack of appreciation for the skills involved.

cowzerp

dunkamania wrote:

Consider that almost every male in Ireland has played at the very least,a few hours of soccer or similar ball sport,wheras the number of females who would have similar expierience is considerably lower.In a hypothethical society,where 90+% of females played soccer reguarly versus -10% of males would you still expect the standard to be higher for males for what is a skill sport.

In soccer i'd say most definetly, way more woman play it in the states and there still rubbish compared to the fella's-most normal sunday league fella's would fancy themselves over the international women-and i would be in that bracket..and fighting is way more physically demanding than soccer so its not a good idea to compare males and females..

SBG Ireland

grappling fairly physically demanding sport....didnt seem to stop ais chokin out that blocky polish guy in the sub league

cowzerp

SBG Ireland wrote:

grappling fairly physically demanding sport....didnt seem to stop ais chokin out that blocky polish guy in the sub league

Ais obviously had superior skills to him-fair play to her, beating a dude makes it all the more impressive, and i agree that graplling is physically demanding.

mirwillbeback

At the end of the day, it's just my opinion. I am pretty sure Ais would sub me too, it's just that I am comparing the sport at the HIGHEST levels.
I dont doubt the commitment of anyone to reach the top of their sport, men, women, children, special *******ns, anybody! They all have the drive and determination that most of us never will, and credit to them for it.
It just isnt my cup of tea.

* not sure why o.l.y.m.p.i.a.n.s. was asterisks out above.

Aisling!

mickoo wrote:

Agreed-women deserve the respect for training hard and having the balls!!! to give it a go, but the standard of female fighters is low and fighting is not a very natural thing for females-Men are the protectors and are made too fight physically and mentally, am i sexist? NO, women fighting looks shabby and people are horrified to see a girl getting bashed, most female fighters come across butch anyway so its not exactly girly. i prefer girls to play girly sports-camogie volleyball and badminton and men to play mens sports-boxing mma rugby etc..although i still believe it should be the ladies choice if she wants to take part in masculine sports .

Woman do reserve alot of respect for training hard just as much as the men do, so to say that they deserve the respect but should not be shown on UFC, Elite XC or any of the other mainstream shows is a contradiction. Respect deserves recognition and to pretend Female MMA does not exist is definetly not giving it the respect it deserves. As for the comment that the standard of women's fights being shabby that sounds to me like uneducated ignorance, anybody who has actually watched the female fights on Bodog is well aware of the high standard and skill levels of the women's fights.
Too say that most female fighters come across butch, is also misinformed how many female fighters do you actually know? Well the majority of female fighters in the media at the moment are not butch in the slightest Gina Carano, Julie Kedzie, Carina Damm, Ginelle Marquez and are all highly skilled (with the exception of maybe Gina) and are very girly. Anyway I'm starting to get used to comments from some people so I'll just keep doing what I'm doing!

mickoo

Aisling! wrote:

Woman do reserve alot of respect for training hard just as much as the men do, so to say that they deserve the respect but should not be shown on UFC, Elite XC or any of the other mainstream shows is a contradiction. Respect deserves recognition and to pretend Female MMA does not exist is definetly not giving it the respect it deserves.

They deserve the respect, but so does anyone who trys there best-even rubbish fella's, but that does not mean rubbish fella's should be on top shows, women fighting on these shows is like a circus, otherwise why would there be all the publicity just because a female is doing mma, it would be different if she was fighting for a genuine title or something, how many fans would show up for a night of female mma? family and friends i guess. fair play to the girls but be honest and see that its all hype because its a novelty. nobody likes to see a girl get bashed up anyway..

Colm_OReilly

It's intelligent posts like the one above that make me proud to be a mod.

Calling any earnest sporting endeavour by athletes a "novelty" is really just proof of idiocy.

dlofnep

Ah now Colm, that's a little harsh. That's just his opinion of what he sees.. Female MMA is in some respects a Novelty. It depends on the show. Gina Carano, while having some standup ability - is hardly a world class fighter, but she gets by on looks alone. And then you have sleezeballs like Gary Shaw drooling all over the female fighters and kissing them. It's totally disrespectful. If that's not a novelty then what is?

Other shows like Smackgirl are much more focused on sport than spectacle. It really does depend on the show.

To me, seeing two girls smash each other in the face is a little brutal for my delicate eyes.. Call me old fashioned! But I'm not going to criticise women for competing, more power to them!

damo

There is undeniably a novelty factor about mainstream womens mma at this point ie. carrano fighting on strikeforce and its a novelty fuelled by her marketabillity rather than there being any real demand for womens mma. To put it bluntly i highly doubt strikeforce would have featured womens mma if gina carrano was butt ugly. They see a niche in the market and the idea is they can make her a star, and therefore make bucket loads of cash off her. I dont really see womens mma having a future in mainstream mma becuase like all novelties, it will wear off sooner or later.

^^^

The above is not sexist, just an honest opinion - i have big respect for female mma competitors, i just dont really have any interest in the fights.

damian

SBG Ireland

i like technical mma bouts

i dont like strength-based untechnical mma. contests when they are squeezing each other heads from within the guard. when their stand up involves 'swinging for the fences' or their 'gap closing' technique involves bending at the hips, outstretching their arms and running blindly towards their opponent. all of these things make me sad.

i like sharp crisp stand up, level changing shots and guard passing.....the sex of the athletes is of no real concern....how cute the guy is or how ugly the girl is doesn't influence me.

just how technical they are

but i'm a fan of mma sport....not an organisation, not a trend, not a t-shirt brand. just a fan of the truest, toughest and oldest sport.

damo

I love technical mma too, and hate seeing sloppy fighters like chris leben in the big shows, whilst the likes of paulo filho and carlos condit are stuck in the wec - because theyre less marketable ie. werent on a season of tuf....but thats another debate.

How many world class, technique-wise, women mma competitors are there? What is the ratio of men to women training mma in the world? I'd guess at least ten to one? Could it be argued that men have naturally better technique when it comes to boxing, grappling, muay thai etc? no? does it even matter? For every high class - technical mma fight you could put on between 2 women competitors, you could most likely put on 100 quality fights between males. This doesnt bode well for the prospect of building and sustaining female weight classes with legitimate contenders and title holders which the general mma fan base will be interested in. Add to this that alot of people just arent really into the idea of girls fighting and i think it adds up to there never being a female contingency in the UFC.

You can bet your ass that if the demand was out there for womens mma, Dana would set it up in the ufc so fast it would make your head spin, but the fact is there isnt demand, so he wont.

Why am i even writing this? i should be studying, arghhh!!

mickoo

Colm_OReilly wrote:

It's intelligent posts like the one above that make me proud to be a mod.

Calling any earnest sporting endeavour by athletes a "novelty" is really just proof of idiocy.

Colm my opinion is just as valid as the next 1, if its not a novelty at the MOMENT then why is the female mma fighter on all the shows after 2 fights and there is fighters with titles and lots of years and fights under them?the joke after cage rage when they interviewed her and took loads of photo's in the cage with her was laughabl- the reason why i say MOMENT is because it wont last as people will get bored watching girls fight as the pool of women is very low so its hard to build up any standard.

Dragan

damo wrote:

I love technical mma too, and hate seeing sloppy fighters like chris leben in the big shows, whilst the likes of paulo filho and carlos condit are stuck in the wec - because theyre less marketable ie. werent on a season of tuf....but thats another debate.

Leben looked very good at the last UFN, i would say his technical level has improved substantially.

Carlos Conduit went to WEC as , in his own words , "I am young, i want to improve" and Paulo Filho went to WEC as , in his own words, "Anderson has the belt, and i will not fight him, when Anderson loses his belt i can come up for a title shot."

Now then, as for the topic at hand! First off well done to Ash on her victory, it was a very exciting fight! I have to say i thought the clinch in the first took it toll on you but you were incredibly patient in getting your victory.

Finally, all MMA is awesome, and once the standard is there for good fights i want to see it on telly. Male and female.

Roper

mickoo wrote:

nobody likes to see a girl get bashed up anyway..

I agree, but then I don't like to see a lad bashed up either.

StrateBlastJim

mickoo wrote:

Colm my opinion is just as valid as the next 1, if its not a novelty at the MOMENT then why is the female mma fighter on all the shows after 2 fights and there is fighters with titles and lots of years and fights under them?

I assume your talking about ais and you say shes on all the shows??? she wasnt fighting at the weekend and she hasnt been fighting at the ufr's up north.
so whats your point here?? if you hadnt noticed ais trains under the promoter of the last 2 dublin shows John Kavanagh, just like mick leonard and willy hamill and they have been on both cards? who are you implying was left out, with all their titles?? Why would john not get his people to fight on his cards? Mark did the exact same in galway with alot of his guys fighting at the weekend.

mickoo wrote:

the joke after cage rage when they interviewed her and took loads of photo's in the cage with her was laughabl-

In what way? as people have mentioned there are less women in mma so if your one of the best you get noticed, ais currently is making waves and as her own coach has said has the potential to be a world champ. Dave roche didnt have many fights unfortunetly but got alot of attention for the quality of his wins, some fighters make headlines and names for themselves quicker than others, these things happen.

mickoo

StrateBlastJim wrote:

I assume your talking about ais and you say shes on all the shows???

SHOWS-Late Late-etc,, Radio shows-Why does she get on ahead of the top mma fighters in ireland?

Roper

mickoo wrote:

SHOWS-Late Late-etc,, Radio shows-Why does she get on ahead of the top mma fighters in ireland?

Thats the way things are. Mainstream media isn't interested in male fighters, they're 2 a penny but a girl fighting has "novelty" value (I'm not using that word the way you are) so they're interested.

Does that take away from her skills? What are you cribbing about exactly? The fact that MMA fighters don't get publicity? Or that Aisling does? Or that you don't like to see girls fighting? It's hard to tell at this stage what you're so against.

StrateBlastJim

mickoo wrote:

SHOWS-Late Late-etc,, Radio shows-Why does she get on ahead of the top mma fighters in ireland?

Im pretty sure she was on the shows as that was how the company chose to publicise the event.

The Bored One

Ive talked to some people who are involved in trying to promote female MMA in England who've dealt with Gina Carano and they've said she's somewhat unprofessional to work with. There's been difficulty with her making weight with her last three fights, and she tends to play up the whole "Diva" media angle, which some of them feel damages their attempts to have female MMA viewed in a more professional fashion.

mickoo

Roper wrote:

What are you cribbing about exactly? The fact that MMA fighters don't get publicity? Or that Aisling does? Or that you don't like to see girls fighting? It's hard to tell at this stage what you're so against.

The top mma fighters get no publicity and any fighter getting all this attention after 2 fights is ridiculus imo regardless of se`x, this is what im getting at, im not a fan of girls fighting but thats a personal choice, Aisling done nothing wrong but is a novelty to the media at the moment-i think the best fighters(champs) should be the best known too.

SBG Ireland

mickoo wrote:

i think the best fighters(champs) should be the best known too.

but thats the problem - most people like you just sit around and 'think' certain fighters should be well known...and then gripe about fighters who have people behind them that go out and make it happen by bangin on doors and telling everybody about them.

most fighters or fighters managers/trainers are not prepared to do the work required to get in the media....it aint that easy. just winning is not enough.

TKD SC

Hey

What about female boxing? Can anyone more knowledgeable than me make a comparison between female mma and female boxing? I'd guess the only female boxer that majority of people have heard of is Ali's daughter? There's v seldom female boxing fights on tv etc. Will female mma take off the way boxing didnt or will it go the same route? Just throwing this idea out there..

cowzerp

TKD SC wrote:

Hey

What about female boxing? Can anyone more knowledgeable than me make a comparison between female mma and female boxing? I'd guess the only female boxer that majority of people have heard of is Ali's daughter? There's v seldom female boxing fights on tv etc. Will female mma take off the way boxing didnt or will it go the same route? Just throwing this idea out there..

Katie taylor is a world champion boxer and is very good from bray but she's the only boxer i know, i dont believe female mma or boxing would ever take off-maybe the odd fight here and there on shows but i cant see it been anymore than that, i train a female in mma and the 1 thing you do get with females is full attention, they learn quickly compared to fella's because unlike fella's they dont automatically think they can fight-but girls will always lack ko power and fans want to see ko's and hard punching etc and people dont like the idea of girls hurting each other.. most girls would prefer light contact sports like tkd! thats why in my opinion girls combat sports will never be big.

Nothingcompares

judo is very popular on the continent for female competitors.

Scramble

There's obviously a market for women's matches in MMA, and unless I'm mistaken there have been at least a few all-female cards and promotions internationally. If the sport as a whole continues to grow, then it seems logical that this niche market is going to be with us for a while to come, and might even grow.

I don't see what the problem is, to be honest. The female MMA bouts that I've seen live (two, so far) haven't been of a different quality than other fights on the card. It's not like it's a different sport. If someone is squeamish about watching two highly-trained female athletes compete against one another, then I guess they always have the perogative of stepping outside for the duration. No doubt some matches involving females could turn out to be mismatches or boring to watch: But ... er... so are some matches between men.

Some of the comments made about Aisling's fights and the media exposure that she has received are a bit depressing, but I don't know why anyone is surprised: Whenever anyone has a little bit of success in this country then someone quickly pops up to take a shot at them. Begrudgery is one of the national pastimes.