If you wanna get round, you better get on down.....

You Suck!

Cocaine!!!

Not sure if ye heard about this, but its an interesting one. Basically in a book about drug use and the middle class a minister! of all people claimed: 'Yes, I take drugs, only coke, and I am not the only one'

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/1003/politics.html
http://www.tyronetimes.co.uk/latest-irish-news/Author-refuses-to-name-minister.3256573.jp

Pretty fúcked up if you ask me, Im pretty liberal on drug policy but I sure as **** would abstain were I in a position of serious responsibility.....or would I?

None the less, let the baseless speculation begin and let us also ask just what the hell is going on with those who legislate without two hoot's for the law.:eek:

eigrod

You Suck! wrote:

Cocaine!!!

Not sure if ye heard about this, but its an interesting one. Basically in a book about drug use and the middle class a minister! of all people claimed: 'Yes, I take drugs, only coke, and I am not the only one'

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/1003/politics.html
http://www.tyronetimes.co.uk/latest-irish-news/Author-refuses-to-name-minister.3256573.jp

Pretty fúcked up if you ask me, Im pretty liberal on drug policy but I sure as **** would abstain were I in a position of serious responsibility.....or would I?

None the less, let the baseless speculation begin and let us also ask just what the hell is going on with those who legislate without two hoot's for the law.:eek:

Yes, heard this on Morning Ireland. Apparantly Simon Coveney tried to raise it in the Dáil yesterday, but the Ceann Comhairle ruled him out of order. Coveney just wanted to know if Bertie asked his cabinet about it.

You Suck! wrote:

Im pretty liberal on drug policy but I sure as **** would abstain were I in a position of serious responsibility.....or would I?

Not sure it's a matter of whether one has liberal views on drug use or not, but when one thinks of who is importing & profiting from these drugs, then it is despicable to think that our lawmakers are "allegedly" contributing to those ill-gotten gains.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

what pisses me off is he's willing to let those people go to prison while he still reaps what they sow.

or what someone else sowed and sold to them at a fraction of the price they are selling it to him.

all the same, hypocritical bastard.

The Thinker

Sure, lets face it folks, You would need to be on a lot of something to be able to say "I fully believe the Taoiseach's explanation of his finances". Could be any one of the senior cabinet!

oscarBravo

Let's keep it on-topic, ta.

You Suck!

Not sure it's a matter of whether one has liberal views on drug use or not, but when one thinks of who is importing & profiting from these drugs, then it is despicable to think that our lawmakers are "allegedly" contributing to those ill-gotten gains.

Have to agree with you on that one, not to mention the sense of hubris from the political class's when this is the attitude.

Theres always been one thing about the drugs issue that has hassled me and it's that the law is enforced along class lines. The difference in probability of someone in a tracksuit getting searched and someone in a suit getting searched is vast. And now we hear that the political class is consuming with impunity. One thing in favor of decriminalisation is that it removes the inequity in targeting consumers and squarely aims for the one group we can all agree needs targeting: the organised criminal gangs.

calsatron

Hmmm, not a single verifiable quote in any of it and not only has she just released the book but there's a two part documentary coming up as well.

Does anybody really think that a government minister would choose of their own free will to admit to Class A drug use on the informal understanding that they wouldn't be quoted on it.

flogen

Three angles of concern on this issue - the legal side, the moral side and the professional side.

Legal
Whatever your feelings about the legality or otherwise of drugs like cocaine there's no argument on the fact that they are illegal. Obviously anyone, minister or otherwise is committing a crime by purchasing and possessing it (although I'm not sure if use itself is a crime, that's not really important though as a crime must be committed for someone to have used it).

Moral
The aformentioned morals of drug use - the criminals you're supporting, the regimes you're getting your supply from etc.

Professional
The issue of someone with an important role taking drugs on a regular basis, especially when they're supposed to be making decisions of national importance.

My own thoughts - obviously the legal one is cut and dry - if there's a TD/Minister etc. taking drugs they're committing a crime and should be treated as such. They should certainly lose their job and seat based on the legal and moral issues. Obviously the idea of a Government minister under the influence of any drug is worrying - although this side is in my mind the least relevant in any controversy.
I remember someone telling me it was well known that a certain Cabinet minister at the time was a raging alcoholic (they didn't say who). Assuming there was any truth to that, is it any worse or better than a drug addict or regular user?

It's interesting to see how the issue was dodged with Ahern simply not answering Coveney and O'Donoghue advising him to raise it later in the day (during some debate on crime issues which I assume wouldn't have involved Ahern... anyone know if he did?)

IrishElection.com has been campaigning for a drug test for Dáil Éireann, which was set up mainly to make a point about Fine Gael's calls for drugs tests in schools... maybe it isn't such a bad idea after all...

lostexpectation

I think the author of the book should put up or shut up

flogen

lostexpectation wrote:

I think the author of the book should put up or shut up

Or maybe the Government could even pretend to look into the matter before we go demanding a journalist reveal their sources?

eoin5

On a bit of a side note Hitler was into the stuff. I dont think we should blame the drug for all the things he did but it certainly cant have helped. Politicians and hard drugs, not a good idea.

johnnyskeleton

flogen wrote:

Legal
Whatever your feelings about the legality or otherwise of drugs like cocaine there's no argument on the fact that they are illegal. Obviously anyone, minister or otherwise is committing a crime by purchasing and possessing it (although I'm not sure if use itself is a crime, that's not really important though as a crime must be committed for someone to have used it).

They are immune, under article 15.13, from arrest except for felonies (now abolished) treason or breach of the peace while on their way, in or coming from parliament. So if they were doing coke in the dail chambers they could not be brought before the courts for possession of drugs.

To be honest, I don't care what politicians get up to, provided they do a good job. I would rather ming the merciless be taoiseach and run the country well than have a sober but incompetent leader bringing in crazy laws.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for public inqury into public affairs, but I wish more time was spent on looking at what the government is doing rather than looking at the personal/financial affairs of individual members.

eoin5

johnnyskeleton wrote:

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for public inqury into public affairs, but I wish more time was spent on looking at what the government is doing rather than looking at the personal/financial affairs of individual members.

Agreed. The whole political system is far too celeb. Certain conduct is unacceptable and doing cocaine certainly is given the nature of the drug, but this endless natter of personal finances and Enda Kenny's hair drives me nuts!

lostexpectation

flogen wrote:

Or maybe the Government could even pretend to look into the matter before we go demanding a journalist reveal their sources?

its not a matter of revealing sources, there no basis for a gov investigation, other then some hack hawking a book

flogen

johnnyskeleton wrote:

They are immune, under article 15.13, from arrest except for felonies (now abolished) treason or breach of the peace while on their way, in or coming from parliament. So if they were doing coke in the dail chambers they could not be brought before the courts for possession of drugs.

They only have immunity when working - if they were found to be in possession at home or in a recreational setting they'd be treated just like any other citizen.

Also, and someone can clear this up, possession of illegal drugs is probably a felony in Ireland.

lostexpectation wrote:

its not a matter of revealing sources, there no basis for a gov investigation, other then some hack hawking a book

I agree - no need for a formal investigation based on absolutely nothing; that said it wouldn't cost anything for Ahern to ask the question and tell the Dáil what he was told.

There's also no reason why a full drugs test programme wasn't rolled out in the Dáil if they wanted to prove the point beyond any reasonable doubt (not that I would be too bothered in seeing that happen).

Tha Gopher

Have any of you read the previews for this book? On the list iirc includes a well paid pilot, the politician, teachers, and a host of others in the "god know, theyre respectable" grid. And, my favourite of all, a nun (ooh, NUN HAS A HABIT, I can see the headline now). The author was also lucky enough to get taken on a dealers rounds, where he showed our friend his drop offs into soliciters offices and, i dunno, school staff rooms and bus depots.

In short, having not even read the book its clear that a large amount of it is cock. Exactly what motivation would a politician have in taking a journo through their depraved drug addled oh shocking stuff lifestyle. How do you manage to track down Irelands only cocaine snorting nun? Why does a well paid pilot feel the need to boast to a journalist about a habit that, if found out, would be career ending. Was there really some thicko of a dealer who upon looking at the journo decided she wasnt 100% undercover DS and took her on the daily deliveries? Its complete and utter sh1te capitalising on the medias obsession with middle and upper class cocaine use. The journo clearly thought it was more interesting than a more realistic setting, sitting in a house in Finglas watching a gang of skangers hoover their way through one`r bags. Upper class drug me hole, coke is as skanger as fights in Quirkeys and putting blue lights on the underside of your Subaru. Im not denying most of D4 has tried a line. Most living creatures under 30 probably have by now. But from my experience of house parties if someone was to pull out a bag at parties ive been at where most of the girls are from Foxrock, Dalkey, D4 itself etc, they would either be told to get out or the girls would be huddled in the corner complaining about the filthy skangbags.

I think the arse has fallen out of the trade in Dublin (thankfully, utter rubbish), but its grown huge in the country where it was available on a pretty hit and miss basis. Again, its not the posh girls doing it like the media thinks, its the "sham", the rural/regional town equivalent of the skanger. IMO Ireland in recent years was importing just about enough to keep Dublin and the other big towns going, hence its rarity in the countryside. In the last year id notice alot less of it at parties id go to here, while in the same time down the sticks it has exploded. Same amount of coke is being imported, its just that instead of selling virtually all of it to the local lads more of it is being offed to the country suppliers.

lostexpectation

also I half read the extract in the sindo where
she quotes pilot who siad he took drugs before and during flight cos he was bored... !!

I thought part of journalist jobs was to investigate wrong doing and they had a obligation to report things to the gards when it was something that endangered the public

protecting sources isn't the highest concern here, she's like judy millar

Notorious

I've heard a load of the minsters do coke. They've ran a drug tests in the toilets of the Dail (I think) and every time they find traces of coke on the cisterns.

The cleaners always got the blame....

Jackie laughlin

Let us assume for a moment that the book is not a fabrication. The pursuit by the media of THE NAME should stop because it's just playing celebrity/newsworthy culture rather than examining what is potentially a real socio political issue.

lostexpectation

so the author was on the panel on monday, she wasn't quite as annoying and superior as I thought she'd be, although she wasn't glamorising middle class drug use,there a particular type of faux-shock and horror and wanting to be in the know that sindo journalist make a living off, that she's is guilty of...


she tried to avoid having an opinion on anything, 'she was just a messenger' but said she thought they shouldn't be legalised.

maxwell went on a bit, but it does show how rare it is to see a truely 'leftwing' attitude on tv, rather then just wibberals, he a very clever person, although he did ruin it by ranting.

glad he challenged the wannabee soldier too on why they were in afghanistan ,unfortunately he did get the usually band of brothers evasive fob off, he should have asked him whether they came across any al qaeda