Irish supporters as limp as their team?

toomevara

As I trudged disconsolately away from the Parc de Princes on Sunday, I couldn't help but tune in to a heated conversation between two lads behind, discussing the wetness of the (numerically superior) Irish supporters in the stadium, especially when compared to the raucous all singing, all dancing Argies.

It got me thinking and I couldnt help but partially agree with them. Is there a problem with this competition pricing out the bread and butter supporters? Is the prawn sandwich/corporate box brigade, who's depth of ignorance re: the game is shocking, impacting negatively on the usually rock solid support for the Irish team when in the heat of battle?

marco_polo

toomevara wrote:

As I trudged disconsolately away from the Parc de Princes on Sunday, I couldn't help but tune in to a heated conversation between two lads behind, discussing the wetness of the (numerically superior) Irish supporters in the stadium, especially when compared to the raucous all singing, all dancing Argies.

It got me thinking and I couldnt help but partially agree with them. Is there a problem with this competition pricing out the bread and butter supporters? Is the prawn sandwich/corporate box brigade, who's depth of ignorance re: the game is shocking, impacting negatively on the usually rock solid support for the Irish team when in the heat of battle?

I guess there is always a fair percentage of Event junkies at any sporting event, but I wouldn't really overstate its effect too much TBH, the real fans always have a way of finding tickets in the end. I guess that it just boils down to the fact that that the Argentinians had alot more to be singing about in the end.

I wasn't there so you'd know better than I would, but I thought the athmosphere was excellent at the start of the match when it looked for a while like we might have a chance. Would the Argentinians have been so boisterous if the were getting a spanking?

Agree 100% about the scandalous ticket prices though.

leeroybrown

toomevara wrote:

Is there a problem with this competition pricing out the bread and butter supporters? Is the prawn sandwich/corporate box brigade, who's depth of ignorance re: the game is shocking, impacting negatively on the usually rock solid support for the Irish team when in the heat of battle?

I wouldn't really agree with that. It's hardly surprising that supporters felt deflated given a litany of poor performances against mediocre and weak teams and an opponent showing good form. When I sat down to watch the game I was *hopeful* that we would kick into life but I wouldn't exactly have described myself as expecting that we would kick on and get the four tries and win by more than seven.

Borzoi

toomevara wrote:

As I trudged disconsolately away from the Parc de Princes on Sunday, I couldn't help but tune in to a heated conversation between two lads behind, discussing the wetness of the (numerically superior) Irish supporters in the stadium, especially when compared to the raucous all singing, all dancing Argies.

I felt the same way, and on the way home from Stade too. Similarly there I heard an English voice shout to the Irish to get behind the team. But it's hard when you're taking a beating, and just keep taking it. I'm sure you noticed the crowd come to life after the 2nd half try, only for the psyche advantage to be pissed away. TBH I think the supporters are as mentally battered as the team.

Even after the bad performances against Scotland,Italy,Namibia and Georgia,the atmosphere before the French match was incredible.We completely out roared the french on the packed metro and were behind our team completely in the 1st half but I guess the bad performance this time was just too much and the crowd died out.I guess it's kind of hard to really get behind the team after 6 bad performances in a row

toomevara

Deleted User wrote:

Even after the bad performances against Scotland,Italy,Namibia and Georgia,the atmosphere before the French match was incredible.We completely out roared the french on the packed metro and were behind our team completely in the 1st half(

I thought much of the atmosphere outside and inside the stadium before the match was created by the roving bands of Argies singing, dancing and capering about. Thought the Irish fans were a bit (justifiably) reticent almost as if we knew what was ahead of us...afterwards, with the execution over, we partied just as hard. Almost as if a weight was lifted....Oh and I'd agree about the metro, that was amazing....

Borzoi, interesting what you said about the English voice, I was sat beside two English lads who roared their lungs out for Ireland all match, to the point where I promised 'em I'd support England against the Aussies. A promise made all the easier to keep given the idiotic OTT (even by their standards) sledging engaged in by the Aussies......

Ah well, at least I managed to swap my hideous new Irish Jersey (could this carbuncle be the real reason behind our downfall?) for an Argie one....

thebaz

a limp team deserves limp support -- sorry i find it hard to get excited about a team that showed so little passion - partly explained by the rudderless leadership of EOS

Trojan

Wow, I completely and utterly disagree with the OP. Where I was (I12) the Irish fans were shouting their heads off for as much of the game as possible.

The pack of Strepsils I needed to buy Monday tell me that I wasn't the quietest during the game. In fact I even remarked during it "That's all we can do for you lads, you need to do some of it yourselves".

We absolutely belted out The Fields towards the end, so much so that on Monday I could hear it with the volume turned down from across the bar in some brasserie we were in.

My opinion - OP way, way off with that.

toomevara

Trojan wrote:

Wow, I completely and utterly disagree with the OP. Where I was (I12) the Irish fans were shouting their heads off for as much of the game as possible.

The pack of Strepsils I needed to buy Monday tell me that I wasn't the quietest during the game. In fact I even remarked during it "That's all we can do for you lads, you need to do some of it yourselves".

We absolutely belted out The Fields towards the end, so much so that on Monday I could hear it with the volume turned down from across the bar in some brasserie we were in.

My opinion - OP way, way off with that.

Aye trojan, know what you mean...perhaps I'm being excessively pessimistic...went for the Halls Soothers meself......

adelcrowsmel

Where i was in the stand the atmosphere and support from the irish was brilliant - and I still don't have my voice back yet!!!! It did go abit quiet there for about 10 mins or so of the second half but then I think everyone decided sure what the hell we may as well go out shouting and roared till the end (well most of us anyway apart from the tools that insist on leaving a match early which i just think is a total disgrace no matter whats happening in trhe game!!!)

cavedave

During all the games the Irish support contained vast numbers of very quiet people. The Irish guy beside us in the Georgia match told my girlfriend to "shut up singing". This was not during a kick or one of our lineouts. For the first two games we were out shouted by the French neutrals. The team may not have done there job but a sizable proportion of the Irish crowd did not do there job either. Their job being to intimidate the ref, make it so the opposition cannot hear their lineout calls and to bouy up the team.

tHE vAGGABOND

I was having a few beers outside the ground on sunday..

There was a group of 15 odd Argentina fans, complete with their team colours from top to toe, and war paint on etc - they were jumping up and down singing and going mad for an hour or so..

Every now and then they 1000 [or so] Irish fans around them would try and break into song, and it would tail off as soon as it started. All we were doing is just standing there, and taking photos of them [I have about 10 photos, and some viedo to prove it!]

Irish men are not good at singing and having fun like that - face it

cavedave

I am told this conversation took place about 5 rows in front of me during the Georgia match

Man dressed in full rugby kit(shorts, headband everything):Come on lads SHOUT
Man in leinster jersey:It is not much of a performance to shout about

Followed by Leinster Jersey punching man dressed as rugby player (then much shape throwing but nothing else).

When it gets to the stage that the people who do not shout are hitting those that do...

tHE vAGGABOND

I must say muppets going to the games in their provincial jerseys annoys me no end..

Everyone in the country owns green tops/shirts/clothes - wear it and back your nation, not just lads from your part of the nation!

MikeHoncho

tHE vAGGABOND wrote:

I must say muppets going to the games in their provincial jerseys annoys me no end..

Everyone in the country owns green tops/shirts/clothes - wear it and back your nation, not just lads from your part of the nation!

Agreed.

On a similar note I watched the match with a guy from Tipp on Sunday who shouted come on Munster for the whole match and was only really supporting the Munster players (would take piss out of Leinster lads). What the **** is going on with Rugby support in this country?

And guys acting like this problem with people shouting is a new thing, its not. Anyone ever sit in the lower west stand in Landsdowne road? Ive been there a couple of times over the last 15 years and you couldnt get a chant out of them to save your life.

Amz

Trojan wrote:

Wow, I completely and utterly disagree with the OP. Where I was (I12) the Irish fans were shouting their heads off for as much of the game as possible.

The pack of Strepsils I needed to buy Monday tell me that I wasn't the quietest during the game. In fact I even remarked during it "That's all we can do for you lads, you need to do some of it yourselves".

We absolutely belted out The Fields towards the end, so much so that on Monday I could hear it with the volume turned down from across the bar in some brasserie we were in.

My opinion - OP way, way off with that.

Oh my god, I can't believe you were at the game and I didn't know! I wanted to go boozing, but got stuck next to some Stade Francais and English lads after and it killed the mood

Where I was there was a mix, my voice is only recovering and at times I felt like the only one shouting, but I think it was, pure depression that made people quiet for some periods of time. I stayed on for a while after the match had ended to see the medals given out etc. and there was still such a buzz with the Argentine support, they're just a more passionate race anyway I think

Was my first time in that stadium and I really thought the atmosphere was great, I had been told the atmosphere at the French game was poor so didn't know what to expect here.

toomevara

adelcrowsmel wrote:

(well most of us anyway apart from the tools that insist on leaving a match early which i just think is a total disgrace no matter whats happening in trhe game!!!)

Well said. Why in the name of jesus would you follow your team to Paris, shell out a fortune, and not be able to devote 80 minutes of your life to it..the mind boggles, I mean just who are these feck-malahs? Shouldn't be allowed near a bleedin Irish match again inmho....

tHE vAGGABOND wrote:

here was a group of 15 odd Argentina fans, complete with their team colours from top to toe, and war paint on etc - they were jumping up and down singing and going mad for an hour or so..

Saw those guys, they were brilliant, put us to shame

tHE vAGGABOND wrote:

I must say muppets going to the games in their provincial jerseys annoys me no end..

Agree completely, feckin ape-arsery of the first rank......

LFC5Times

cavedave wrote:

I am told this conversation took place about 5 rows in front of me during the Georgia match

Man dressed in full rugby kit(shorts, headband everything):Come on lads SHOUT
Man in leinster jersey:It is not much of a performance to shout about

Followed by Leinster Jersey punching man dressed as rugby player (then much shape throwing but nothing else).

When it gets to the stage that the people who do not shout are hitting those that do...

Most Leinster supporters are knobs

Especially any Leinster supporters wearing the Leinster jersey to an Ireland match.

Amz

What about all the Munster supporters who wore their jerseys?

RuggieBear

LFC5Times wrote:

Most Leinster supporters are knobs

Especially any Leinster supporters wearing the Leinster jersey to an Ireland match.

banned

Snickers Man

Amz wrote:

Was my first time in that stadium and I really thought the atmosphere was great, I had been told the atmosphere at the French game was poor so didn't know what to expect here.

Ah yes but then if you're talking about the Argentinian match, you were in Parc des Princes which is a real amphitheatre. The one that can get like a morque is Stade de France in St Denis.

I live in optimistic hope that the new Lansdowne Road will be similar to Parc des Princes. They both have about the same capacity (50,000 or so) and from what I can gather our new stadium will, just like P des P, have a uniform construction so there will be just one integrated stand, as opposed to four separate structures, sweeping across the whole ground.

And for what it's worth, while watching on TV I could hear the Fields of Athenry being belted out with gusto so it can't have been that quiet.

uRbaN

OP way off...from the reports I have heard from mates over there and from just watching the video the atmosphere was electric...I remember at one stage Flannery checked the calls in the lineout 'cos they couldnt hear each other.

On the ferry over to the Namibia game there were Leinster fans screaming for Filipe during the French Arg game but it was total piss take stuff.

Its a measure of things though that the board is full of threads on this kind of topic

Amz

Snickers Man wrote:

Ah yes but then if you're talking about the Argentinian match, you were in Parc des Princes which is a real amphitheatre. The one that can get like a morque is Stade de France in St Denis.

Eh, yeah I know what stadiums both matches were in, I was just worried that the lack of atmosphere would transfer due to lack of enthusiasm.

Snickers Man

Amz wrote:

Eh, yeah I know what stadiums both matches were in,

I wasn't alleging that you were a complete idiot, just because you hint you're a forward.

I've been to matches in both grounds and the P des P is much better for atmosphere. Mind you, it helps if France are winning.

Borzoi

Snickers Man wrote:

I've been to matches in both grounds and the P des P is much better for atmosphere. Mind you, it helps if France are winning.

In fact the only time they seem to sheer is when they're winning. I've never seen such glum looking winners before!

Amz

Snickers Man wrote:

I wasn't alleging that you were a complete idiot, just because you hint you're a forward.

I've been to matches in both grounds and the P des P is much better for atmosphere. Mind you, it helps if France are winning.

I'm an outside centre or wing thank you very much and I resent your accusation and would kindly request that you retract it or I'll send around some props to sort you out!

SpAcEd OuT

cavedave wrote:

I am told this conversation took place about 5 rows in front of me during the Georgia match

Man dressed in full rugby kit(shorts, headband everything):Come on lads SHOUT
Man in leinster jersey:It is not much of a performance to shout about

Followed by Leinster Jersey punching man dressed as rugby player (then much shape throwing but nothing else).

When it gets to the stage that the people who do not shout are hitting those that do...

I find that story very hard to believe it doesn't really make any sense that someone would throw a punch at another person after the comments spoken and the fact that the alleged puncher is said to be wearing a Leinster jersey just pushes any credibility the story had over the edge it was probably made up to show Leinster supporters in a negative light something which I have seen happen A LOT.


Anyways back on topic, I despise people who wear their provincial jerseys to games and those idiots who shout 'c'mon Munster' they definitely seem to have a superiority complex and seem to think that Munster alone wins games for Ireland.

Also from where I was everyone was screaming. In the first half it was deafening and certainly went beyond what would be considered good support.

mikedragon32

It also annoys me no end that everyone will belt out "the Fields of Athenry" but when someone tries to start "Molly Malone" they're told to feck off by the Munster fans.

The other thing that pi$$e$ me off no end is the whole "Stand up for the Ulstermen" malarkey.

Wasn't like that a few years ago.

Another observation, stemming from the Anthems thing... Apparently there was supposed to be some initiative to encourage the Irish fans to sing the Irish anthem after "Ireland's Call". Didn't hear much singing on TV. Did it actually happen?

cavedave

I find that story very hard to believe it doesn't really make any sense that someone would throw a punch at another person after the comments spoken and the fact that the alleged puncher is said to be wearing a Leinster jersey just pushes any credibility the story had over the edge it was probably made up to show Leinster supporters in a negative light something which I have seen happen A LOT.

Well I saw a scuffle and I heard an explanation form one side of it after. No I would not take one sides view of it as the truth the whole truth and the only truth. Still the fact that Irish fans get in fights with each other during a game is very weird. I am a Leinster supporter.

Trojan

Sorry Amz, I should have sent you a text. I only decided to go for sure on Thursday night!

mikedragon wrote:

Apparently there was supposed to be some initiative to encourage the Irish fans to sing the Irish anthem after "Ireland's Call". Didn't hear much singing on TV. Did it actually happen?

Yep, a huge amount of people where I was sang Amhrán na bhFiann just afterward. I half hearted joined in but I think it's a bit silly (let's get on with the rugby and stop moaning about anthems).

Amz

No worries, I was over there from Thursday morning, only got back yesterday. Had I known you were about I'd have kept an eye/ear out

tHE vAGGABOND

Yep, a huge amount of people where I was sang Amhrán na bhFiann just afterward. I half hearted joined in but I think it's a bit silly (let's get on with the rugby and stop moaning about anthems).

Also joined in, and also found it a bit silly as I have no problem with Irelands call at all. I just wanted to sing something...

The simple fact is that its the 21 century, and we should be able to accept that people play rugby for ireland who dont consider themselves as being from the republic, they consider themselves from northern ireland and british..

BTW - I hate the fields of athenry - its a song about desperate people in the worst period of irish history. Out of all the great songs down our long history, why do we [and football fans all over england] sing that one

Trojan

Ah Vagga, come on, it's cos it sounds great, no other reason whatsoever. The words have meaning?

Diamondmaker

cavedave wrote:

I am told this conversation took place about 5 rows in front of me during the Georgia match

Man dressed in full rugby kit(shorts, headband everything):Come on lads SHOUT
Man in leinster jersey:It is not much of a performance to shout about

Followed by Leinster Jersey punching man dressed as rugby player (then much shape throwing but nothing else).

When it gets to the stage that the people who do not shout are hitting those that do...

I think I saw that guy full kit and socks pulled up and all?

At the end og that game if the French fans were not cheering so hard I think there would have been quite a lot of booing audible !!

The France game, where I was, was tremendously supported, I can just imagine by the time mission impossible came along and 3 miserabel games later that people just cant rise themselves to cheering in hopeless speculation.
The fans expectation as much as the teams have justifiably moved on and as a whole are not interested in cheering for the sake of it or for the consolation try etc.

I think the OP is harsh, poor peroformances = poor support. Its a cycle that always starts on the field not by the fan.

nacho libre

The op is right the cheek of people who support the irish team to be annoyed at what transpired at the World Cup. I mean it's not as if we had arguably the best pool of players to ever play for ireland. imagine fans being expectant. when new zealand and south africa dont meet their supporters expectations the fans are sanguine about it and rally behind the team.

toomevara

As the OP lads, just let me must point out that I'm not saying the support was poor, seemed ok where I was, its just that it seems to have become a topic of conversation all over the shop. maybe there's nothing to it, just putting it out there.....

I think the thread is also airing some interesting stuff re:anthems, jerseys, and the silly factional nature of many Irish rugby supporters. I do,like mikedragon32, hate that stand up for ulsterman chant though....way too football for my taste... sounds like an ad for a dodgy car dealership on UTV...

As for Molly Malone/Athenry don't see the problem, I'm a munster man meself but have no problem belting out molly malone or anything else for that matter at an Irish international and so it bleedin well should be.

Only in Ireland could we get so tangled up in such minutiae and general silliness, I mean the mentality of someone who'll go to an irish rugby International and cheer for Munster players only beggars belief, I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't encountered such blinkered idiocy personally on a number of match days.....sigh....

philstar

tHE vAGGABOND wrote:

BTW - I hate the fields of athenry - its a song about desperate people in the worst period of irish history. Out of all the great songs down our long history, why do we sing that one

yep, i don't like the fields of athenry either, its clanish & tribalistic and only represents one group of people on the island, years ago they used to sing molly malone back in the triple crown days of the 80s, but try and sing it now and and you get sneered at.

RuggieBear

philstar wrote:

yep, i don't like the fields of athenry either, its clanish & tribalistic and only represents one group of people on the island,

Connacht?

or people who steal stuff?

toomevara

Frankly boys,I wouldn't read too much into the lyrics of these tunes...there all pretty daft and date from an age when bombast or maudlin introspection was the order of the day.

Swing Low anyone? A negro spiritual originally sung by black evangelicals asking for deliverance from the horrors of slavery, the unofficial anthem of english rugby..ahem....how did that happen?

The French Anthem...a napoleonic extravaganza about massed columns of french infantry advancing into cannon fire...not exactly inclusive or cuddly!

Flower of Scotland...a song exclusively about beating medieval english armies back over the border, but become the unofficial anthem of a country who's official anthem is the equally belligerent and ridiculous... God save the Queen, more like God save us from the sonic outrage that is that tune!

Wales, Delilah, Oh God! Where do you start with that one...correct me if I'm wrong but this is a tune about a chap who murders his girlfriend.."'cos he just couldnt take it anymore"...ho ho, how we laughed...go on Barry John plunge that knife in deep!!!

You never hear anyone else getting their knickers in a twist over the politically incorrect/socially, non-inclusive, bloodthirsty nature (delete where applicable) of their respective official/unofficial dirges. It's only in Ireland with our biblical capacity for infighting and mutual self flagellation that this stuff becomes a talking point!!

philstar

toomevara wrote:

Frankly boys,I wouldn't read too much into the lyrics of these tunes...there all pretty daft and date from an age when bombast or maudlin introspection was the order of the day.

You never hear anyone else getting their knickers in a twist over the politically incorrect/socially, non-inclusive, bloodthirsty nature (delete where applicable) of their respective official/unofficial dirges. It's only in Ireland with our biblical capacity for infighting and mutual self flagellation that this stuff becomes a talking point!!

wow!! deep

komodosp

I read in the Independent that only 15 people showed out to "welcome them home"? Is this true?

A limp performance deserves limp support

I don't agree, I think it's when they are playing poorly that they need all the support - at least loudness and anger - that they can get... No point in cheering just when you're winning - you have to get behind your team all the time! I mean all the people who became fans after we beat England are just going to fade back into obscurity again...

daveirl

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RuggieBear

daveirl wrote:

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can i have your tickets dave?

daveirl

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cavedave

I don't get it, are you saying support should be constant regardless of performance. I'm not going to an Ireland game until something changes, whether that be Eddie realising it's a squad game, whether that be the concept of untouchable players disappears I don't care but I'll be damned if I'm going to continue spending a fortune, living on bread and water for the next two months while the players and coaching staff just bounce back from the loss and enjoy the fruits of all their endorsement contracts.

But if you had already paid and were sitting in the stadium (Taking the seat form someone else). Would you then cheer on the team?

giddyup

toomevara wrote:

Frankly boys,I wouldn't read too much into the lyrics of these tunes...there all pretty daft and date from an age when bombast or maudlin introspection was the order of the day.

What - the 1970's? The Fields was written around the same time as Slade's Merry Christmas Everybody and Carl Douglas' Kung-Fu Fighting. An age of maudlin introspection I think not.;)

gosplan

A lot of the support at the world cup were newcomers to international rugby.

It's the first time in ages that tickets actually went on general sale for big matches. As a result, people who've been watching on TV but aren't well enough connected to get tickets for 6 nations actually got to go to a match.

This probably explains why the support was a bit different from usual. A lot of the crowd would have been new to rugby.

Chances are they won't be back too soon

gosplan

komodosp wrote:

I read in the Independent that only 15 people showed out to "welcome them home"? Is this true?

Don't think the players even wanted those 15 there.

toomevara

giddyup wrote:

What - the 1970's? The Fields was written around the same time as Slade's Merry Christmas Everybody and Carl Douglas' Kung-Fu Fighting. An age of maudlin introspection I think not.;)

Nice one, I stand corrected.....while simultaneously deferring to your vastly superior musical knowledge....

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

komodosp

I don't get it, are you saying support should be constant regardless of performance.

No, I'm saying if they lose support, and people lose interest in Irish rugby, then they'll just get more and more mediocre as they struggle to find players passionate enough about the sport to get good enough to play for Ireland.

I'm also saying that as well as performance affecting support, support affects performance... People say they should be proud to play in an Irish shirt, but without supporters, what is there to be proud of? Who is there to cheer them on and inspire them do well? To make up the so-called "16th player"...
Though it would benefit me if people started losing their interest, easier for me to get a ticket...

I'm not saying we should over look bad performances... but if the supporters couldn't give a sh!t about the team, and the team then couldn't give a sh!t about the supporters, then the whole thing will fall apart. Do you think the coaching staff just say to them in the dressing room, "Well lads if ye're going to play like that, I just couldn't be arsed..."