Deconstructing .... ollyk1

Ste05

ollyk1 is up next for this following on from this thread.

Same Rules:

There can be NO flaming, this isn't a chance for people to have a shot at who ever goes in. Entrants to the Deconstructing series will have their thick skins on but forum rule breaches will be dealt swiftly and harshly (1 week ban), so you have all been warned.

Just to spell it out: NO PERSONAL ATTACKS, criticise and critique his game and NOTHING else!

Keep it constructive and good luck ollyk1.

ollyk1

C'mon guys I've played with nearly everyone who plays live in Dublin at some stage so I'm expecting a few tips.:rolleyes: You don't have to give away all my tells but the odd one would be nice.:p

Also if you have seperate comments on my cash game mistakes and my tournie flaws they would be very gratefully received!

El Stuntman

the major flaw in your game is not drinking

this means you are not alive to the fifth level thinking that I may employ on occasions...other than that, you're pretty good!

LuckyLloyd

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Macspower

I find you a very strong tournie player.... apart from the fact that your a nice guy I have no desire to see you at my table.....

As regards cash games... I havn't played with you a whole lot but I did notice then on the few occassions that we did play you did quite well but your game went downhill the deeper you get and you seemed to protecgt your chips a lot more and were quite easily pushed off pots... it might just have been down to a poor run of cards though...

I'ts great to see someone enjoying the game as much as you do.....

BigCityBanker

weak tight pu$$y. (",)

your cr betsizing needs work imo.

Mellor

We only crossed once, and that was in the heads up champ this year.
I thought it was a little sad to offer me to take a dive, I was stuck for cash so obliged, although I was too proud to lose and dropped out. I believe this was a flaw in your game as you might of beaten me
I believe you ran well after this

jbravado

In my experience you seem to be a better tourny player than cash-I kind of agree with what Mac said-sometimes I think you really need to loosen your range a little for calling people down a bit considering the games we play.
I sometimes think your speech play can give a little bit too much info away aswell although on occasions its very effective.
Unfortunately I havent played that many hands with you all things considered to offer anything more helpful.

LuckyLloyd

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The_Chopper

You're a station who can't fold QQ

Be careful against weaker players - you seem to talk to them alot more and you give a lot away. Although you generally don't talk to decent players when you're in the hands with them

Lazare

I know this thread is for critiquing Olly, but in my experience playing with you (tourneys), I've always been impressed with how well you read the game, and always enjoy your presence at a table (not socially obv ).

Hitman Actual

It's over a year since I played against you, and only ever in tournaments, but back then you were definitely one of the best on the local tournament scene. I've nothing constructive to add, sorry; I really didn't notice anything obviously 'leaky' when I played against you.

semibluff

dont try and get too adventurous OOP, i find a few times you open pots with rubbish in early pos, and get re-raised alot and muck immediately. tighten your range, also beware of the speech play, give as little away as possible.
As lloyd says you should try a few bigger buy in tournies, and just be patient

ollyk1

Great stuff lads.

Some things pointed out above that I've been aware of on occasion and guilty of repeating the mistake despite having noted it previously.

(for instance getting bored and playing junk in bad spots on occasion)

I try not to speech play against good players as noted by Chopper but you are 100% right LL No speechplay is +EV for me. It does mean the game is a little less fun. In bigger tournies I hardly speak but my discipline slips in smaller games.

I view myself as someone taking shots at live cash games rather than someone who is correctly bankrolled for the game and that definitely has an impact on my play in terms of being pushed around a bit in certain spots and my checkraise sizing as noted by BCB. It's something I'm trying to address but thanks for pointing out the areas that need further work. It's great to get this kind of feedback which tallies with what I suspected to a large degree.


Obviosuly I'm liferolled for the games but that doesn't mean that I always play optimally when I'm at the table unfortunately It's a mental thing as much as anything else.

(Same goes for me not taking many €500+ tournie shots Lloyd you could go a long time without getting a result in a €500+ buyin 150+ runner field and eating up my poker bankroll doing that would take me out of the game entirely and I'm not prepared to risk that.)

BCB is right I am a

BigCityBanker wrote:

weak tight pu$$y

Glowingmind

Not much to say really.

I like having you at my table. Makes me pay more attention. I don't like it when you're the button to my BB.

One day i'll forgive you for crippling me in the epm sat last year. You should have folded those kings preflop.

Ollieboy

excellant player and top game, might need to be more aggressive as the blinds increase, but its been a while since we've both played together late in a tourney.

Also think you need tomove up the levels, your game is well able to handle it. but the skill to been a good player is been able to change gears, work on this bit. This is most people's problem.

Pity your a nice guy too....lol

5starpool

I haven't played with you much in the last year or so Olly, but one thing I used to think was that you seemed to have a problem believing people at times, and get sucked into making reraises or hero calls with marginal hands.

Maybe this was just against me and Brian though

BuChan

you have good hand reading skills, good people (physical tell) reading and wide knowledge of the game in general. be more aggressive, fire a few more barrels here and there so people other than me pay you off. call 3-bets or else 4-bet (pre-flop) me and peter and other aggressive players at the cash games a bit more.

AKQJ10

be more aggressive in tourney's when the blinds increase. from what ive seen you often get yourself in a good position during the early stages of a tourney then if cards dont go your way you get chipped away a bit.

i havent played much cash games with you so i cant really comment

ocallagh

When you are playing aggressive I think you can go slightly overboard, and likewise when you slow down and tighten up you can sometimes go into hibernation for like 3hrs. This can make you somewhat predictable. Learn to change gears more effectively. When you are playing your top TAG game, you are one of the toughest opponents in Dublin. I've prob had more hands with you than anyone else where I was left feeling 100% out played.. (being shown 83o for the 3rd time or something... or making me fold an over pair with less than 20BBs!)

In summary, I think you can get a bit complacent or tired and when this happens your game really suffers.

When you bring your A game to the table, you are best avoided!

Flushdraw

You're a really nice bloke to have at the table. You take both your victories and your defeats very gracefully. I've rarely played cash games with you and surprisingly, we dont cross that much in tournaments.

I think you could be slightly more aggresive as others have said. You tend to limp with AQ and AJ rather than open with them and in latter stages of tournies, you dont do enough stealing from late position.

As others said, your hand/player reading is up there with the best of them and you're one of only a handful of regular players that i hate seeing with jacket in hand heading over to my table!

califano

Some good points made but i think some comments on your speechplay are a tad unfair as i think your one of the best proponents of speechplay ive seen. More people than not are befuddled by the seeds of bullsh!t you implant in their minds!. Its sad that if you try to speechplay us in the future we can assume we are not in the 'decent player' bracket :-(

Definately the most aware and observant player bar none ive seen*.

* which might be say something about my own observance! :-).

Washout

top bloke....learned alot from playing against you and from talking to you.

you have great luckbox skills against me.

Its been a long time since ive played against you but you used to slowplay your big hands way too often.

LuckyLloyd

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Gholimoli

I think your game is very good for regular, not too deep stack tourneys.
You have a cracking record at them which means that you know how to play them far better than most.
I like your patience too and I have hardly seen you make a move that was based on having given up on a tourney, no matter how short you were.

I think in deeper games you could potentially run in to some problems.
Playing in position or out of it when deeper could potentially get you in to trouble.
As for cash games I don’t think you play enough of them to want feedback on your game.
However if you are interested I will talk to you about a short stack strategy that I have employed my self in Dublin games and you will be surprised how profitable it can be.
The down side of it would be that your short stack will not stay short for ever so you will need to readjust it to deep stack when you get deep.
All an all I think you are a very strong tourney player and consistent at that.

califano

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Speechplay gives away information. Giving away information against thinking players is negative EV.

I have yet to meet a player for whom speechplay was a pluspoint to their game.

ok i agree and for the point you mention im sure ollyk1 sneakily tried to cajole me to start to useing speechplay at chl's opening nite game when he joined the table. dont think i didnt notice that olly ;-)!.
Lloyd i agree but he leaks the least then and he can get players to make wrong decisions too but yeah overall i agree with you about speechplay i just thought it was harsh in ollys case seeing hes good at it and i dont think it needed to be mentioned like it was a big achilles heel.

LuckyLloyd

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semibluff

michael muldoon - brilliant at it - his game would be significantly less without it - ok back on topic . . .

Washout

hi Llyod.
there is another caveat to speechplay in this country.

would it not be fair to say that 85% of ppl will misinterpret speech play completely.
IMO against a the vast majority of players speech play can be an effective tool. I personally dont have that aspect to my game but i have seen Olly use it against weaker opponents.

avoid speech play altogether against the better players.

BigCityBanker

semibluff wrote:

michael muldoon - brilliant at it - his game would be significantly less without it - ok back on topic . . .

Donal, ffs what sort of a turd are you? Lloyd has told us it doesnt work at any level. Keep your worthless opinions to yourself.

LuckyLloyd

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semibluff

u wouldnt fold anything half decent to him . . . this could be perceived as his speech play working - i got so secretly tilted by it that i too would not fold anything half decent to him - and pay off his monsters. just to leave the point there, but speechplay as you well know, can be used to keep you in pots aswell as fold

noel - hopefully i missed some sort of sarcasm in your post

LuckyLloyd

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Gholimoli

the Grudge match would have been on a whole new level if Lloyd and BCB where playing at the same table.

such a shame it didnt happen that way.

BigCityBanker

Donal - turn on your sarcasm monitor please.

Lloyd - I have been at the table when you have speechplayed thats why i find it very hard to listen to your preachy attitude on the subject here. I know i shouldnt speechplay and try very hard not to do it but i lapse frequently. That said I dont talk half as much as id like to at a table, the only thing that stops me is that i know it negates my game (what little I have of it.) O/T you gonna put up a leaderboard for the BSOOP?

semibluff

on!

AKQJ10

jbravado uses speechplay well.

Gholimoli

IanMc uses speechplay well also

jbravado

When I started playing I used it a lot-I was then approached by a well known player who was extremely decent and pinpointed how it was LITERALLY turning my hand face up.Since then I try to keep my mouth closed-if a game is fun and a little wild this can be difficult.

Olly uses his speech play very well against some players but imo it reveals a huge amount about how he has played the hand out.
If you play against someone regularly its undoubtedly best to stay silent.

ot-winners from last night?-pm.

LuckyLloyd

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brianmc

Olly, very few criticisms. Something that I think you were more guilty of in the past was overuse of hindsight in trying to disect hand you played.

Less so now.

Having read what others have said about playing marginal hands out of position I'd agree. It's not often but you occasionally make that mistake and I suspect you could keep it closer to the front of your mind at times.

Conspicuous

I have yet to meet a player for whom speechplay was a pluspoint to their game

That doesnt mean they don't exist young man. Perhapsyou havnt been playing the game long enough? Or maybe youre unwilling to recognise thisfacetof another player's game because its not a skill that you will ever be able to master yourself. There are many players on both the local scene in Dublin and indeed in the world game who employ speechplay to great effect in my opinion. But I stress thats just my opinion.

cooker3

Jamie Gold clearly pwns all with speecehplay

ollyk1

jbravado wrote:

Since then I try to keep my mouth closed-if a game is fun and a little wild this can be difficult.

Sammy I understood your point immediately from the earlier post and the above comment is the exact reason I struggle with keeping my mouth shut, but you are 100% correct in saying that I should still endeavour to keep my trap shut in the middle of a hand. Thanks for passing on the tip.

As to the wider point as to whether speech play is ever +EV I really don't care tbh. I agree that it is significantly -EV for me. End of story.

ollyk1

brianmc wrote:

Olly, very few criticisms. Something that I think you were more guilty of in the past was overuse of hindsight in trying to disect hand you played.

Less so now.

I think posting up the odd hand on boards has helped with this or keeping in my mind during and after the hand how I'd write up the hand (but I don't necessarily post it as its probably not that interesting) has been a help with tackling this problem (it's by no means beaten though).

I'd recommend posting hands on poker forums to people who are playing a while but guiilty of falling itno the results based thinking trap as a result.

I think I posted in Dom's deconstructing thread about playing tired and or bored (or for escapism) and this is definitely a weakness in my game as well which leads to the issues raised by ocallagh, brianmc and others in this thread. Discipline is not always my friend.:o

ollyk1

rounders123 wrote:

ok i agree and for the point you mention im sure ollyk1 sneakily tried to cajole me to start to useing speechplay at chl's opening nite game when he joined the table. dont think i didnt notice that olly ;-)!.

Guilty as charged!!:p

But in fairness that wasn't really during a particular hand but more so in between hands just to loosen you up and get you relaxed, you give away very little when you have the serious head on Aidan so I was just trying to loosen you up a little.;)

Plus I was a shortie at that stage as I recall so the tactics weren't very complex and the play was very simple so having a laugh didn't seem to be a bad thing to me!

ollyk1

A quick word of thanks to everyone who's had some nice things to say about my game and me personally in this thread.

Obviously I've been using this thread to get opinions on mistakes I make but its great for my confidence to hear people say such nice things about my game and all the friends and acquaintainces I've made through this game is the only reason I continue to play poker if I'm really honest, sure the money is nice on occasion and nobody likes losing but having the craic whether it's on a weekend in Waterford or in the SE\CHLs during the middle of the week is what the game is all about for me. I'm just a h'amateur afterall! Thanks again lads.

califano

ollyk1 wrote:

Plus I was a shortie at that stage as I recall so the tactics weren't very complex and the play was very simple so having a laugh didn't seem to be a bad thing to me!

Yeah i meant to add this in earlier just understate my remark. If im honest my main reason for mentioning this was to be seen as clever enough to decode possible motive and then letting you know about it really:p !.

LuckyLloyd

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Goodluck2me

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Meh, name me some names oh aged one. In your opinion of course.

tommy, denises brother. lol. ross johnson is a thinkin player who uses it well.

muldoon is very good at it imo, obv not local.

more often than not its -ev, i find it great when people use it

BuChan

ollyk1 wrote:

A quick word of thanks to everyone who's had some nice things to say about my game and me personally in this thread.

Obviously I've been using this thread to get opinions on mistakes I make but its great for my confidence to hear people say such nice things about my game and all the friends and acquaintainces I've made through this game is the only reason I continue to play poker if I'm really honest, sure the money is nice on occasion and nobody likes losing but having the craic whether it's on a weekend in Waterford or in the SE\CHLs during the middle of the week is what the game is all about for me. I'm just a h'amateur afterall! Thanks again lads.

lol.... angle shooting?