Roy Jones Jr

raven136

could someone with more boxing knowledge than me explain how great roy jones jr was and why.Just heard someone talking about his greatness over the weekend and all i know about him is the different weight divisions wins.

walshb

Jones Junior is one of the most naturally gifted and athletic fighters that ever lived. Blindingly fast and a hard puncher, he was unbeaten for years before losing two consecutive fights by KO, to Tarver and Gelencoffe Johnson respectively. Moved to heavyweight before these defeats to beat Ruiz for the heavyweight title:D ....

Is also know for being te victim of a very bad Olympic decision in 1988 i the 71kg division. Lost to the Korean on a 3-2 majority. He easily outboxed the Korean, but I suspect his lack of sportsmanship in 'defeat' cost him GOLD..
No place IMO for belittling or showboating in the amateur game

Kess73

Hmmm Where to start on Roy Jones Jr? He was an amazing boxer, had the lot in my opinion. I think many people's perception of him as a fighter has been clouded by the losses towards the end of his career (yes I know he has not officially retired yet) and by the fact that he won so many fights so easily.


He was so far ahead of nearly every fighter when he was at his peak, and don't believe anyone who says he fought only stiffs, take a look at his record, there are some bloody good names on there, and plenty of durable fighters too. For me his win against James Toney was his best. This was a James Toney that was the best bar none in the division, a James Toney that was slim and motivated.

Jones had great punching power, amazing hand speed, the reflexes of a cat, balance was excellent, his chin is not suspect like many think, stamina was always good, loved his head movement and how he worked his shoulders during a fight.


The one fight I would have liked to have seen him in, was against Dariusz Michalczewski , but that broke down as Jones wanted to fight in the States, and Michalczewski wanted it in Germany, and neither were willing to meet the other half way, would have fancied Jones to have won it though.

His win against John Ruiz was another very credible win. Ruiz may not be a popular heavyweight, but he was still a genuine world ranked heavyweight at the time, and Jones gave up a hell of a lot of size and power against him.


For me, Jones was a world class boxer, and would have been so in eras other than his own.


The fight with Trinidad in January will be one that I will be keeping an eye out for, neither are what they were, but still could be an interesting bout.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPT6E_ouBnM




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nK8qHnvBo9U&mode=related&search=

walshb

To me Toney was severley weight drained and pretty useless in their bout. Jones did the business and deserves credit, but that Toney IMO was not close to the peak Toney....the Toney of the Barkley bout was the peak Toney....

Jones doing a number of Montell Griffin was IMO a class display. It was when he showed us that when he applied serious pressure, he could get his man out of there. He was on a mission that night, making up for losing to Montell by DQ in their first encounter.

His bout with Woods was also a fine display as was his destruction of Virgil Hill and Jorge Vaca.....

Then there was his win over Hopkins, a peak Hokins at that....quite impressive. He never looked in trouble for the 12 rds and coasted to victory...

Big Ears

Walshb your post there is pretty much spot on bar the last 2 lines , a peak Hopkins ? He might have been at the age where you expect most middleweights to be at their peak but he certainly wasn't .

Peak Hopkins was from about 1996 to 2003 , he slowly declined physically during that time(Had it not been for his attitude to healthy living and keeping in great shape all the time it might have bee quicker) but he also became a better technical fighter during that period which compensated for his physical decline .

With that said Jones win over Hopkins is still a very good one , and at his best it's hard to tell whether anyone would have beaten Jones around his weight class(bar by DQ like the Montell Griffin fight) .

For those who wonder why Jones refused to ever fight abroad:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0cNugcG6zg
The reason for Jones being robbed quite possibly has something to do with some terrible decisions going against Korean boxers in the 1984 LA Olympics .

walshb

Correct, age wise Hopkins was or should have been peak....

el tel

I was always disappointed that Jones didn't fight steve Steve Collins. At the time it seemed to me that Collins was one person Jones avoided, for whatever reason.

megadodge

Only spotted this thread now, but I've pretty strong opinions on Jones.

I personally believe that if we could magically get all boxers ever to weigh the same while keeping their respective strengths/weaknesses and fight each other at their peak then Roy Jones would be the one to come out on top.

As mentioned above he had absolutely everything - amazing speed of hand, foot and reflexes, power, intelligence, conditioning, discipline, concentration, strength, self-belief and chin.

I have no time for the non-believers who have suddenly decided that FIFTEEN years after the guy turned pro and suffered only one flash knockdown in that time that because of the two recent KO's he had a glass jaw all along. That's revisionism at it's worst.

I also disagree strongly with the "Toney was weight drained, watch him against Barkley to see him at his best" theory. My answer is to watch him against Michael Nunn to see an almost exact replica (bar the ending of course) of what happens when Toney meets a slillful boxer with fast hands and particularly feet. Toney had very slow feet and Barkley was the ideal boxer for him to showcase his undoubted skills - a come-forward, slow, easy-to-hit slugger, but Jones was a stylistic nightmare for him. He just wasn't good enough.

I don't think Hopkins got a whole lot better either. Jones wasn't particularly impressive in that fight, which shows how good Hopkins actually was, as Jones made almost every fighter he ever fought look like a bum. Hopkins went on to make all those defences against mainly smaller men and his biggest win was against Trinidad, who again was a smaller man but also stylistically a straightforward enough boxer. It's only Hopkins' longevity that has people thinking he has actually improved. IMO he was as good against Jones as he ever was but was just beaten by a better boxer.

In relation to the Seoul "loss", I don't remember any bad sportsmanship by Jones (I have the fight somewhere on tape also, so I'll check it out again sometime). One of the corrupt judges who voted for the Korean admitted afterwards that he decided to vote that way because he "knew" the other judges would award the fight to Jones and he thought he'd give a sympathy vote to the Korean in front of his home crowd. Unfortunately two of the other judges thought the same ! Anyway the Korean shouldn't have even made the final, he got a bad decision against an Italian (nearly sure it was Nardiello) in the semi.

maradona10

everyone of you ignored the fact that roy jones used steroids throughout his career. he was tested and caught earlier in his career and then in 2003 was implicated in the balco scandal shortly after beating john ruiz. after this story broke jones stopped taking them and subsequently lost to tarver and johnson. he has not been the same since stopping. how else do u explain beating ruiz before balco and losing to those fighters after

Big Ears

maradona10 wrote: »

everyone of you ignored the fact that roy jones used steroids throughout his career. he was tested and caught earlier in his career and then in 2003 was implicated in the balco scandal shortly after beating john ruiz. after this story broke jones stopped taking them and subsequently lost to tarver and johnson. he has not been the same since stopping. how else do u explain beating ruiz before balco and losing to those fighters after

Age...............and beating Ruiz is(well was) easier than beating Tarver .

maradona10

steroids mate, if roy needed them earlier on he needed them in the heavyweight division. i have the info for you. ill post it here or send u pm if you want. im just havin trouble with pc. check back later

maradona10

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&opt=printable&id=2888

big ears, try above for critique of roy jones

wardyeire

seems ironic that some one with the nickname maradonna would give stick to some one who took drugs....made me laugh

wardyeire

and Roy Jones was a fantastic boxer and nothing can dispute this just look at his titles..........as for fighting Steve Colins well Jones had nothing to gain and everything to lose by taking the fight...

maradona10

its a username. im not defending maradona

maradona took recreational drugs and going by jimmy burns book was also systematicaly doped in his teenage years by various sports physicians and later on. also was tested and found to have taken 3 kinds of ephedrine during the world cup

you say roy jones was a graet boxer, just look at his titles. titles cos of steroids

wardyeire

maradonna it seems your on a mission to ruin a lot of boxers reps just because of articles you've seen or read, Roy Jones passed many drugs test so get facts right before trying to devalue some ones creditals

maradona10

any sportsperson who is willing to take steroids early in his/her career as roy jones did is trying to compensate for something that he/she clearly doesnt possess.

if they dont possess it when they are in their youth they cant possess it later

your looking at roy with rose tinted glasses

Bernard Hopkins

well the whole thing about steroids/supplements is to bring yourself to the brink of being illegal , but just staying inside the border.

In any highly competitive sport, and particulaly the grueling events like cycling/boxing/running ,.. you need every bit of assistance you can get... cause you know all your competitiors are at it too.

anybody who knows / has taken steroids will know how massive a difference it makes on your body,........ absolutely massive effect almost instantly.
to compare that man with the straight competitor who is eating lean chicken and vegtables, there is no comparison.

you kinda have a fair idea from the body of an athlete who is using steroids and who is not.
it's like looking at a woman with implants ,.... you just know they are'nt right, dont ya ?

Bernard dunne was doing weights 3 days a week before the kiko bout. nopw there is a guy that dosnt use steroids. getting up towards the heavier weights, where the competitive weight loss/restrictions are not so tough ,...thats where to find the users.

and then we could look at the greatist cyclist on the planet,...who openly flaunts the idea of him using steroids, but his chemist is too clever for the doping comitte, and it never gets detected.

I bet jeff Lacey uses steroids,.... you can see it in his body.
thats not the build of a natural boxer,... and i think Big Ears says he dosent do weights !! time will tell.

maradona10

whats your opinion on jones

megadodge

Despite my previous post I have to say that Maradona10 is making a very legitimate point and I actually forgot about this whole issue when posting.

There are a few things in the article I disagree with - going from 175 to 193 in a number of months is very easy, Hatton goes from 10 to 11 stone in 24 hours ! - I also don't think steroids help your punch power, it's like saying big muscles make you punch harder - and I think coming back down to 175 did weaken Jones considerably, but....

It has left a question mark in my mind.

maradona10

hatton goesfrom 10 to 11 cos hes nearly dehydrated when he gets on the scales. he simply goes back up to whats natural for him

that has nothing to do with putting on weight

going from 175 to 193 is possible, but not in a short space of time with little body fat at his age

why didnt he do it earlier if that was the case

Kess73

The links between Jones and BALCO were never proven, and were tenious at best.

Jones was an amazing amateur fighter long before he joined the paid ranks. Think he started off at about 119lbs.

I find it amusing that the fact he went from 170lbs to 193lbs is seen as a sign of him being on steroids, as someone else has already said in this thread, it is easy to go up in weight in a short time with the right training and conditioning, it is the coming down that presents more problems.

Roy Jones jnr had amazing ability and talent, and did not get them from steroids, of that I have no doubt. Whether he augmented them with steroids is another issue, I would be doubtful that he did, but to try and write off his achievements as simply a product of drugs is laughable to me.

Bernard Hopkins

oh yes,...of course he was a special talent,.... you got to be to get to that level, no chemical or medical assistance can gift you talent,... it can only enhance and extend the limits of your natural atlethic ability.
no amount of steriods will give you a chin of granite either !!

People also questioned his commitment to boxing in the latter years, with critics claiming he trained for glencoffee by playing basketball at home !!

In saying that ,. .. RJJ was exciting to watch , who brought something new and different to the game. the type of entertainment you would cut your Saturday night short to catch the fight @ 3am !!

It should be a great match with trinidad , both of whom have nothing to gain and nothing to loose.

megadodge

maradona10 wrote: »

hatton goesfrom 10 to 11 cos hes nearly dehydrated when he gets on the scales. he simply goes back up to whats natural for him

that has nothing to do with putting on weight

going from 175 to 193 is possible, but not in a short space of time with little body fat at his age

why didnt he do it earlier if that was the case

Sorry to say it man, but you don't know a whole lot about boxing if you think Roy Jones weighed 175 at the weighin and still 175 24 hours later.

Like Hatton he was also coming down to 175 and putting weight on after. He would often be close enough to 190 come fight time.

It's not exactly a stretch to put a few more pounds on in a few months, especially when he didn't have to diet which is a massive part of a fighter's preparation - see the link on another thread to an interview detailing Calzaghe's last week before a fight.

It would be interesting to see what Calzaghe and Kessler both weigh at fight time tomorrow - and they're only super-middles !