so in the aftermath of the WC

Mint Sauce

where does irish rugby go from here, it all looked so promising after the last 12 to 18 months, the triple crowns, the test matches, beleive me, i'm not bashing the irish team, but did we peak to soon, did we build our hopes up to much, were we just unlucky, were we wrong to treat the first pool matches as warm ups in the lead up to the wc, were we right to give EOS a new contract just before the wc.

obviously a major reveiw is now needed on how it went so wrong, the whole team, from the manager down, the coaching staff, and the players need to take a step back and reflect, and re build, give us the fans some thing to beleive in, restore our faith, move forward, learn from the mistakes, learn from the complacencies that seamed to develop.

ireland, you can learn from this, restore the faith,

Creamy Goodness

were we wrong to treat the first pool matches as warm ups

erm since when is fielding your strongest team treating the matches as warm ups?

Chucky the tree

Dont worry, we'll probaly win a triple crown in the 6 nations next year and everyone will proclaim us as being one of the best teams in the world again. :rolleyes:

davyjose

Well to be honest, it just goes to show how dreadfully poor Six Nations Rugby actually is. Look at the facts, Wales knocked out by TWO SH teams. Argentina topping the "TWO BEST" European sides. New Zealand making a mockery of Scotland and Italy and South Africa doing likewise to England.
TBH it's not so much a case of where does Irish Rugby go, but where does 6 Nations Rugby go!!!

Let's be honest Argentina would be Grand Slam champs if they were in the tournament!!!!

Mint Sauce

Cremo wrote:

erm since when is fielding your strongest team treating the matches as warm ups?

i'm not sugesting me or anyone personly, but sections of the media tried to hype them as warm ups for the french and argintinia

Santa Claus

irish-stew wrote:

were we right to give EOS a new contract just before the wc.

DEFINITELY NOT.

What struk me watching the game was the lack of reaction from EOS to either of the tries......not a smile or a hand in the air or anything !!

Hopefully he'll do the decent thing and resign. I think his method of management and picking players who are in favour rather than in form has prevented many young players from coming through and challenging for places.

Since Humphreys retired ROG has had the number 10 shirt all to himself, and Marcus Horan retains his shirt despite being a weak scrummager in my opinion.

We can and will recover from this, but I think a change of management is a MUST.

Anybody got any ideas of prospective irish coaches ?

pickarooney

Maybe a return to amateur status? At least they might play like they meant it

Imhof Tank

I believe that this is in fact the best, fittest Irish squad ever.

Unfortunately:-

Every other country also has their best squads ever in action, and comparitively, we have been left behind. This is the fault of management;

The team believed the hype - reminded me very much of Engand at major soccer tournament finals

AARRRGH

davyjose wrote:

Well to be honest, it just goes to show how dreadfully poor Six Nations Rugby actually is. Look at the facts, Wales knocked out by TWO SH teams. Argentina topping the "TWO BEST" European sides. New Zealand making a mockery of Scotland and Italy and South Africa doing likewise to England.
TBH it's not so much a case of where does Irish Rugby go, but where does 6 Nations Rugby go!!!

Let's be honest Argentina would be Grand Slam champs if they were in the tournament!!!!

Well said. It's time for a reality check. The Six Nations is not tough enough to prepare European sides for the World Cup.

Mint Sauce

dublindude wrote:

Well said. It's time for a reality check. The Six Nations is not tough enough to prepare European sides for the World Cup.

wasn't there a suggestion of the top teams from the 6 nations and and tri nations doing some sort of northern v southern hemispheres play off every year or two or did i dream that

<unsure>

might prepare teams better for a bigger stage

barclay2

A shocker of a world cup. Nobody really knows what happened to the team. But does anyone else think that this world cup has just been a continuation of poor form that stretches at least as far back as the start of the six nations?

In the six nations, we looked good against a very weak england team and beat Italy convincingly. But we blew it against france, just barely scraped by against Scotland by a point (a game i was at and thought we deserved to lose) and i didnt think we did anything special against Wales. Since the six nations, we played about 5 weak matches in a row, including losing to argentina twice in a row.

Given such a trend before the world cup, in retrospect, i dont see why we were all so full of confidence/expectation going into the world cup.

Santa Claus

dublindude wrote:

Well said. It's time for a reality check. The Six Nations is not tough enough to prepare European sides for the World Cup.

Maybe the Argentinians should be invited into the 6 nations ?
Most of their players are in Europe anyway so wouldn't involve massive travel for the team but they'd have to play all their games away.....

Santa Claus

Maybe the Mods can create a "Moan about recent irish form here" thread instead of all these individual threads ?

tolosenc

He's right though. Though the France game may deserve more merit.

Ghost Train

dublindude wrote:

The Six Nations is not tough enough to prepare European sides for the World Cup.

it's been tough enough that its been along time since ireland won it

RuggieBear

threads merged

TheDeficit

We weren't great in the 6n but we've definitely gotten worse since. If we had played the mighty Georgia back then would he have scored 4 tries? I think so. This side has been a shadow of itself in the WC.

admsitio

Assume the cruel reality.Nowadays, France and Argentina are better teams than Ireland.And it's the pool of death, remember?

bugler

Neil Francis on Setanta was basically pointing out how EOS will stab others in the back to dodge the bullet himself.

So Niall O'Donovan will probably be sacked for a start (lineouts poor, pack not really performing outside the scrum, which as surprisingly good this WC).

He also said that a few players will never be capped again. Aside from the obvious retirees, I'd wager Stringer and Easterby (even though he's a favourite of EOS) might be two candidates for this category.

jayteecork

Trevor Brennan for coach. Now that he's banned for life he needs something to do.

Erin Go Brath

TV3's reporter Sinead asked Eddie; Will he now reconsider his poisition as head coach.

Eddie was completely shocked by the question, but obviously answered that hes staying in the job.

That girl has some neck, fair play to her though.

mikeruurds

Ireland's early exit is largely as a result of the method of determining the make up of the groups in the pool stages.

It's time for Ireland to go through a massive rebuilding stage. South Africa had a woeful 2003 world cup and was in a similar position to the one Ireland is in now.

It's crap to be an Ireland fan now, but hopefully the IRFU will provide the resources to ensure that the result will be different in four years' time.

Keep the faith lads.

Now it's time for my team (the boks) to try and upset the Black titan.

case_sensitive

Dire, embarrassing, the Six Nations has really been shown up to be the second-rate competition it is. The gulf between the southern and northern hemispheres is now glaringly obvious.

What now for European rugby? Bring in Argentina, based out of Spain (their players will nearly all be in Europe anyway), and give us a reality check. Play the Pacific Island sides to up the physical side.
Honestly, we need to clear out old guard, sack the skills coaches, start a new 4-year plan; blood a full 22, much less a 30-man squad, and get some young guys in the squad playing regularly.
I'm gutted, but with EOS around for 4 years, someone's got to go, and for me, ROG should hold the door for O'Donovan and follow him out into the cold.

bugler

Ireland's early exit is largely as a result of the method of determining the make up of the groups in the pool stages.

We'd have done well to come out of any of the groups the way we are playing. We had two big losses to the only 'serious' teams in our group.

And the fact we retain the same coach is going to somewhat hinder our future development.

thebaz

Erin Go Brath wrote:

TV3's reporter Sinead asked Eddie; Will he now reconsider his poisition as head coach.

Eddie was completely shocked by the question, but obviously answered that hes staying in the job.

That girl has some neck, fair play to her though.

Dead right asking O'Sullivan is he going to stay ?
Why should she be in fear of him ?

He's masterminded a complete Irish under performance at this tournament and is responsible for the 4 woefull performances.
Resign Eddie, Gatland was fired for a lot less.

mikeruurds

bugler wrote:

We'd have done well to come out of any of the groups the way we are playing. We had two big losses to the only 'serious' teams in our group.

And the fact we retain the same coach is going to somewhat hinder our future development.

I agree 100% that Eddie still being in place as coach may hinder the rebuilding effort.

It would be great if the IRFU could replace him with someone like Nick Mallett.

Erin Go Brath

thebaz wrote:

Dead right asking O'Sullivan is he going to stay ?
Why should she be in fear of him ?

Yeh, as i said fair play to her. Not many journos would have
the guts to ask such a question. Eddie was squirming. Respect to the girl!

is_that_so

Should he stay or go? Well on the basis of what's happened it might be easier to dump him.
That said it would probably leave us worse off. If they do leave him there he needs to produce a plan that will take us to the next World Cup. Most of that as far as I can see is a good cold look at the current team/squad. If some of them are obviously not up to it then bring people in who are. Every position should be provisional imo. I don't think that can be conditional even for someone like BOD. By the next WC we need to look at a NZ type of approach - two players for every position. Now we won't get there but we may at least remind players that they are only as good as their last performance.

Personally I reckon that he should deliver a Grand Slam in 2009 or go, which in my book is the first game of that championship. The next 18 months should be an exercise in rebuilding, blooding new players and someone remembering how to play rugby. That and Ciaran Fitzgerald's immortal words.

Stev_o

thebaz wrote:

.
Resign Eddie, Gatland was fired for a lot less.

Your hitting the nail on the head there least Gatland got us past us the group stages, this on the other hand is a new low.

Problem is, there is no one else that can replace Eddie and i think the immediate thought that fans would think if he was sacked and replaced that we would suddenly start winning matches.

Lads there MAY be a time now were we loose alot of matches that usually we would have won but consider that the team will have to be restructered in how it functions it has to be expected.

We CAN bounce back from this.

Biggest example i can give is Argentina

We sent them packing in 2003 and they'v come bk and done the same to us.

It will happen but we need time first

homah_7ft

I get the feeling this has been coming a long time and it's only going to get worse. I agree that some of the tactics have been poor but I wonder how much of it is down to the overall strategy- excellent team circa 2005 let's stick with it. It could have worked. We needed our fly half at his best but for whatever reason it wasn't within him. We needed Paul O'Connell to be at his best and again he couldn't find it. The same could be said for at least 5 other positions.

The reason Eddie may have gone for this strategy may have been the large gap in bringing players on from youth level. How can we do what the all blacks do i.e. each position covered brilliantly, when there isn't a gruop of quality players coming through the ranks? It's not up to the national team manager to blood new talent in my opinion. It's surely up to the clubs and then the provinces. Where are our fresh fly halfs going to come from?

Ireland as a small rugby nation (compared to NZ or OZ) is always going to struggle for a large squad of quality players. I think we are further hit by the rules governing subs giving an advantage to countries with a large playing pool. We were even lucky this world cup as regards injuries.

So what is the solution? Surely it doesn't all rest with Eddie O'Sullivan. I would agree that his conservatism / doggedness played a large role in our poor showing this time. I think however that we need to punch above our weight by bringing on youth talent to the senior level. How we do this is really a question for the Irish rugby authorities but maybe they might like to give a look to our withering club scene :mad:

Het-Field

Irish fans expected much, but were ultimately left very very disapointed and bitter.

The cold hard facts

*We lost two games against two of Rugby's stronger teams. It highlights that we are nowhere near the worlds best. I would wager that the All Blacks, the Springboks, and possibly the Wallabies would be able to take both France and Argentina out.

We struggled so badly against the weakest team in the tournament, before the Georgia (ranked 18th in the world) feel just short

*We scored a total of 62 points. This was over the course of 4 games, with two against some of rugbys weakest teams. In 2003 we racked up 68 in one game against Namabia, in 1999 we hit the USA for 55, and Romania for 46, in 1995 we scored 50 against Japan, and in 1991 (when trys were only worth four) we beat Zimbabwe 55-5, which would equate to 60 points today. It higlights how poor our backs performed, especially given the prowess we know the likes of Horgan, Darcyand Hickie have.

*Our out half scored a grand total of 19 points. That is an out half who has scored over 700points in his career

*19 players were used. Game breakers like Carney were left on the bench, whiile there was no consideration given to putting Alan Quinlan in for the visably injured David Wallace. As such no new players were blooded on the top stage, in spite of the fact that Georgia and Namabia gave the opportunity.

And now other problems

1.No new players have been properly blooded. Some of the most prominent newbies i.e. Tommy Bowe, Johnny O Conner, Paddy Wallace, Luke Fitzgerald, Jamie Heaslip, Barry Murphy have been ignored in most games, and as a result have little experience when they will be called up in the wake of this fiasco.

2.Jim Glennon put his finger on it when he condemned the Celtic League. When Irish rugby began becoming successful it was when the provinces were playing in Europe and the AIL Clubs were feeding the players. I remember attending an AIL Semi Final on a beautiful May day in 2000. It was between St Mary's and Ballymena. On that day Peter McKenna, Denis Hickie, Malcolm O Kelly,Victor Costello, Trevor Brennan, James Topping, Simon Mason, and Dion O Cuinnegain were all on show. That situation changed in 2003 when the Magners league became a Winter to Summer competition, and as a result the AIL took a backseat. Remember some of the Welsh and Scottish teams are piss poor. It would be far better to continue to develop our domestic clubs, which increase the amounts of players which are identified by the provinces. Nowdays the provinces Cherrypick young players, and the clubs are left behind.

3.The fact that we have continued to fail in the 6 Nations is another major problem. Triple Crowns have become meaningless as a result of the poor opposition of England, Wales, and Scotland. They are in as deep as we are.

4.We need to take summer tours to Australia South Africa and New Zealand more seriously. We need to bring our top players out to ensure that we stand the best possible chance. Its becoming repetitive that we go out and get hammered each summer against the Tri Nations, with whom we need to seriously compete with.

5.Each summer we need to have A Tours in the hope of improving our shadow sides. Tours to the USA to play America and Canada, the Pacific Islands to play Samoa and Fiji, or to Africa to play Namabia and Zimbabwe need to be utilised to completly blood new players. The trip to Japan in 2005 was a sham as O Sullivan took players like Girvan Dempsey, Kevin Maggs, and Anthony Foley on a tour when they wer enot taken with the Lions.

........................................................................................................

With several players retired or likely to retire we are in as bad a position on the pitch as we have ever been.

This World Cup revealed our limitations, and how weak we are.

zAbbo

1.No new players have been properly blooded. Some of the most prominent newbies i.e. Tommy Bowe, Johnny O Conner, Paddy Wallace, Luke Fitzgerald, Jamie Heaslip, Barry Murphy have been ignored in most games, and as a result have little experience when they will be called up in the wake of this fiasco.

If Bowe keeps up his performance for Ulster, he should get back into the squad.
JOC is unlikely to get a chance, although he is only 26.
Paddy Wallace, only if he gets game time at 10.
Luke Fitz, yes needs to be in the squad
Jamie Heaslip - ditto
Barry Murphy, not good enough imo, and we have more taleneted OC's

old boy

whatsnit costing to bring carney to the irish set up and then seat him in the stands, the answer to all this, is stay at home, do not pay good dosh to watch a bad team, stay in your local. vote with your feet not with your cash. as long as people keep paying things will stay the same

Eoin

The "group of death" thing could well provide EOS with some opportunity to spin this poor result in his favour. Had we won without the bonus point last night, I'm sure the party line would be that we were unfortunate not to win having only lost one game. At least our final standing is an accurate reflection of how we played.

If you look at the other 3 groups, I don't think I would have fancied our chances against any of the 3rd placed teams, the way we played.

@Het-Field - those facts do not make for nice reading. Don't forget our awful try count!

thebaz wrote:

Dead right asking O'Sullivan is he going to stay ?
Why should she be in fear of him ?

Well, it took some neck because I can well imagine that EOS will not be too forthcoming with her in the future. I didn't think he was "squirming" though - he just said no, and didn't elaborate.

CJhaughey

eoin_s wrote:

Well, it took some neck because I can well imagine that EOS will not be too forthcoming with her in the future. I didn't think he was "squirming" though - he just said no, and didn't elaborate.

He was squirming asking her to repeat the question when he could clearly hear what she said!
With any luck she will be interviewing a different manager of the Irish rugby team next time.

LoLth

IMHO: EOS shouldnt be replaced.

I dont think he's doing a good job. I dont think he had a clue how to prepare for and meet the challenges in the world cup. His selection process and his introduction of new talent has been abysmal.

However, I dont think he should go. Like it or not, he has spent years with the team, he has made the contacts required for the job. And he has been utterly humiliated on a world stage.

I think he should be held accoutnable for this wreckage and be appointed an advisor (next in line for his job) to come up with a plan to put it right. His salary should be performance based + basic . He should have a definite goal set for him (expand the selection choice available , promote rugby at a club level by creating a clear and identifiable path from club through to international, develope a scouting network that actually works, encourage players to play abroad for a season or two if only to pick up a few new tricks).

I am confused about the "golden generation" and best team so far phrases.
the team with Keith woods , simon geoghan (sp?) et al gave an infinitely better showing in their world cup and in their southern hemisphere test matches (I still remember the Aussie commentator proclaiming geoghan's brilliance and spped - I believe the term "flyer" was used as he ran another try into the corner and his tackling was great to see).

Again, just my opinion and I may be wrong so feel free to correct me:
I think the irish team rely too much on individual "heroes". we did it with geoghan, we did it with woods, we are doing it now with o driscoll and o gara and when they dont perform (o gara was woeful imho in this wc) the team sort of stop and look confused.

Excuse my iggerance but, why was stringer dropped ? I was on hols and didnt catch that bit. (pesky holidays during the RWC. Italian Rugby coverage is actually worse than irelands. I hate this exclusive rights crap).

anyway, my 2c.

raven136

what about the idea on Setanta that if eos does keep his job then a SH skills coach should be brought in to work alongside him.They were badly lacking in basics this world cup.

If he does lose his job,anyone know what Pat Howard is up to at the moment

jmayo

Erin Go Brath wrote:

Yeh, as i said fair play to her. Not many journos would have
the guts to ask such a question. Eddie was squirming. Respect to the girl!

Fair dues to her. Sadly she will never get a job working for Sky or BBC with an attitude like that

A point by Trevor Brennan on TV3, was the fact that we may not hear what went on behind the scenes, since everyone bar Murphy are contracted to IRFU so they all afraid of speaking out.
I don't think Wavin boy will speak out either since he is looking at his future and will want to remain cosy with powers that be.

To add insult to injury we got to watch O'Gara practice his kicking skills during adds on TV3 (which has crap coverage with too many ads) after the match. Some of so had no choice but to watch their coverage, thanks to our national broadcaster losing yet another sporting event, could start a rant on that as well.
Obviously he hasn't being taking his lucozade or powerade during this worldcup and thtis why he has been so cr**.
Can't see why he was left on the pitch, even substandard Wallace would be better at this stage.

The question is how long before Eddie the Spin is pushed ?
EOS has all the power and will not tolerate anyone being brought in to undermine that so can't see any major entity being brought him to "help him out".

It all just goes to show how poor the 6 nations is. As pointed out the triple crown is now worthless as a competition. If you do not win the championship and complete a grand slam you haven't really won anything.

rgunning

I think the repeated calls for Eddie to resign are a bit much. It's not like he went out and asked certain players to have a nightmare of a game. Eddie's thing has always been about encouraging players to make personal targets - i.e. everyone focus on their job - not necessarily focussing on whether we win or not, just that you have your job done on the day.

I don't think Eddie went out to the pack and said - lose lineouts tonight, please, and don't forget to be dodgy in the scrum. To the backs and said - take the ball standing - and any chance you can kick straight into the oppositions hands.

I can understand people blaming tactics when we losing a tight game. If a difference would have been made going for points instead of the corner in certain situations. But exactly which match could a change of tactics have influenced?

"Don't drop the ball, you plonker" is not a tactic - it is a player failing. If we are talking about an under 13s match, then it is more than likely a coaching problem, but the Irish team? These guys should already know how to catch, kick and run. If Eddie has to spend time working on this, what is the point in turning up to a competition the All Black are in?

They one thing I would agree with is that Eddie did not vary the team out there, and left some contenders at home. But he would have been hung either way. Had he brought/played some of the riskier players and we lost, it would have been the same thing.

Eoin

CJhaughey wrote:

He was squirming asking her to repeat the question when he could clearly hear what she said!
With any luck she will be interviewing a different manager of the Irish rugby team next time.

I thought he looked surprised he was asked the question, but to me, he looked like a man pretty confident he'll still have a job.

fatboypee

Sooooo, my tuppenceworth on this subject..

Where do Ireland go from here ? Back to rehab...
I was pondering last night what was missing, all I can say is I saw no heart. no IRELAND on that field, TEAM, no play for the country kindof pride..

All I saw was a bunch of depressed professional rugby players without cohesion or trust in each other....certainly NOT a national team that had an notion of national pride.

For me, when those kinds of probles manifest themselves, its really really hard to get the head up and get out there.

Whodunnit ? ?

For me at any rate, team work and team spirit is driven and comes from the top down... if there is nothing up there, then there's nothing or nobody to play for and the team goes out to lunch...

That, in my very humble opinion is what we saw this WC.

Should EOS resign?

Yes.

Will he?

Not a hope.

Big q is, will the IRFU have the balls to dump him ?

I don't think so.

Will Ireland move on if not ?

DEFINITELY NOT.

FBP.

LuckyLloyd

is_that_so wrote:

That said it would probably leave us worse off. If they do leave him there he needs to produce a plan that will take us to the next World Cup. Most of that as far as I can see is a good cold look at the current team/squad. If some of them are obviously not up to it then bring people in who are. Every position should be provisional imo. I don't think that can be conditional even for someone like BOD. By the next WC we need to look at a NZ type of approach - two players for every position. Now we won't get there but we may at least remind players that they are only as good as their last performance.

Personally I reckon that he should deliver a Grand Slam in 2009 or go, which in my book is the first game of that championship. The next 18 months should be an exercise in rebuilding, blooding new players and someone remembering how to play rugby. That and Ciaran Fitzgerald's immortal words.

Good post IMO.

Yet, I think that we have an either or situation now - and rebuilding or taking a final shot at the Grandslam in 2009 are mutually exclusive.

For me, we can:

1) Really experiment over the next three years. Accept some heavy defeats in the Six Nations and Autumn Internationals for the next three years and drop any player from consideration that will not realistically have a shot at RWC2011 (that means ruling out ROG; Stringer; Wallace; Hayes; Dempsey; Murphy; Horgan; O' Callaghan from further participation in an Irish squad).

2) Continue with "the best 15 available" selection policy for the next 18 months. Stick with the core of the "Golden Generation" and work towards Six Nations 2009 (when we have the main two at home) as the last hurrah and possible last realistic chance of a Grand Slam in a while.


I don't think you can do both. Why? Well, in reality, Ireland's starting outhalf for the 2011 world cup has never played for Ireland yet. That may sound like a silly statement - but it is actually true if you think about it (ROG will be too old; Wallace will probably not grow into a command of the position given where he is at this point). Ditto scrumhalf; at least one of the second row positions; both prop positions; probably the back three. Proper rebuilding requires taking a gamble on unproven players in a variety of positions. Accepting that we won't be competative - and sticking with guys and giving gametime irrespective of bad results.

And if you embark down that difficult path from the next six nations on, there will be no realistic chance of Ireland doing a grand slam in 2009. Infact, we may have to accept taking two or three steps back before we can move forward POST 2011.

CJhaughey

This team has had EOS since November 2001 as head coach.
That IMO is far far too long for any one man to be in charge.
Things have gone stale with too many players living on reputation alone.
As I read from Warren Gatlands column he reckons that to be in charge for 6 years you would need to be a master tactician, for 10 years you would need to be a Genius tactician to keep the same squad motivated for that length of time.
EOS blind faith that his chosen 15 would produce the goods has been shown up, he has dismissed nearly all of his closest coaches and doesn't even have a team manager anymore.
If you watch any TV interviews he sits alone at the table fielding all questions.
To the uneducated eye he has all the makings of a megalomaniac.

Wickie

what DOES Ireland expect?

Do we expect more from Our rugby team. If Yes the then EOS has to Go. In my opinion the preperation for the RWC must have been very poor - I mean what the players were eating and drinking, what training they were doing and most especially what their mindset was. Whatever they were at it was absolute crap. No other team were in more disarray than we were.

Whos responsibility was it to prepare the team for the tournament and Who stood Idly by and let it happen.

Ireland expects, and Eddie and the boys won't believe the reaction they get when they come home. I reckon Eddie will resign when he gets the full feeling of the disquite at home.

kevpants

Whatever happens I think one thing I noticed is that Rugby seems to have changed and we haven't changed with it. It seems to be succesful your pack need to be a team of human battering rams and the bigger the better. We might have to reconsider what makes a "good" forward.

From the appearence of our forwards it looks as though our fitness and conditioning coaches concentrated on a dynamic, athletic type of strength (the players look well defined but quite lean). This sounds pretty good but it looks like the world of rugby is going for mass and pure power and they're winning. Maybe too many bicep curls and not enough dead lifts.

I'd also recommend a recruitment drive over in Argentina. Do you have any idea how many Argies exist with names like O'Neill and O'Brien? Do a Jack Charlton on it and get a few Argie monsters to replace Hayes and Horan!

LostinBlanch

kevpants wrote:

I'd also recommend a recruitment drive over in Argentina. Do you have any idea how many Argies exist with names like O'Neill and O'Brien? Do a Jack Charlton on it and get a few Argie monsters to replace Hayes and Horan!

That is the first thing that should be done. Can't see it happening though.