Upgrade advice & tips

Hivemind187

Ok, so I am planning to turn the ICS M4 CQB-R into a full length M4 RAS and complete internal upgrade (focus on durability, consistency and range rather than rate of fire). I have a few questions to throw out to the technically adept of you.

Which bearings and bushings etc should I use?

Which is the best 1joule spring to go for (from your experience)?

Should I bother changing the hop unit (I've resigned myself to changing the rubber)?

Tight bore barrel with or without hop twist (I know some of you are using them)?

Whats the score with piston heads?

How about cylinder heads and spring guides?

Its not just for my benefit but these are the kinds of confused worries anyone who isnt too familiar with engineering and electrical technicals will have before choosing their upgrade parts.

(I'll probably bug Kdouglas about this later )

defenderdude

Hivemind187 wrote:

>snip<
Which bearings and bushings etc should I use?

Which is the best 1joule spring to go for (from your experience)?

Its not just for my benefit but these are the kinds of confused worries anyone who isnt too familiar with engineering and electrical technicals will have before choosing their upgrade parts.
>snip<

Very interested in the answers here too.
Also, where would you guys suggest getting parts - UK or HK? I priced a VSR10 spring from WGCshop and it costs $15 for the spring plus $25 for shipping.

I now also want to get two further 1Joule springs for M4 AEG's and wonder if you guys can sugest a good type and if it's advisable to change the bushings (now that they are opened...)


Cheers
A.
ps. great to see some of you peeps at HRTA yesterday (my first time there and was sorta dying from a hangover).
Thanks Paul and others for the very friendly chat n advice!

Hivemind187

defenderdude wrote:

Very interested in the answers here too.
Also, where would you guys suggest getting parts - UK or HK? I priced a VSR10 spring from WGCshop and it costs $15 for the spring plus $25 for shipping.

Well, the economics I can answer. DONT BUY UK. For whatever reasons they have the mark-ups just bleed you dry. Even after factoring the import duties in Ireland it (usually) works out cheaper to bring them in from HK.

defenderdude

Hivemind187 wrote:

Well, the economics I can answer. DONT BUY UK. For whatever reasons they have the mark-ups just bleed you dry. Even after factoring the import duties in Ireland it (usually) works out cheaper to bring them in from HK.

That's just crazy mad!

I guess I'll try add to the WGCshop order - perhaps the 3 springs for $25 shipping would make more sense (If they would do it). HK it'll be so. Ta.

Is it just me and my browser or is the WGC shop difficult to navigate/add to orders etc...

Hivemind187

defenderdude wrote:

That's just crazy mad!

I guess I'll try add to the WGCshop order - perhaps the 3 springs for $25 shipping would make more sense (If they would do it). HK it'll be so. Ta.

Is it just me and my browser or is the WGC shop difficult to navigate/add to orders etc...

I generally dont have a problem with WGC but I think its flash based which might be a problem for some folks.

Oh, and when you are assessing HK prices they are all in US Dollar which is usually worked out by dividing the price by 1.4 or 1.3 if you have a stingy credit card operator.

defenderdude

Hivemind187 wrote:

Oh, and when you are assessing HK prices they are all in US Dollar which is usually worked out by dividing the price by 1.4 or 1.3 if you have a stingy credit card operator.

LOL yea, my wife:D

kdouglas

Hivemind187 wrote:

Ok, so I am planning to turn the ICS M4 CQB-R into a full length M4 RAS and complete internal upgrade (focus on durability, consistency and range rather than rate of fire). I have a few questions to throw out to the technically adept of you.

Which bearings and bushings etc should I use?

bearings and bushings are two different things that basically do the same job, afaik, ICS gearboxes should have metal bushings as standard, so shouldn't be any need to upgrade there

Hivemind187 wrote:

Which is the best 1joule spring to go for (from your experience)?

cant say for definite because i haven't really had a chance to test enough springs yet, but the PDI 120% would probably be what i'd go for based on this, although it is possible to get alot worse than 1J from a 1J spring, it depends on how airtight the rest of the setup is (i.e. piston/cylinder/air nozzle etc...)

Hivemind187 wrote:

Should I bother changing the hop unit (I've resigned myself to changing the rubber)?

i'd probably change the rubber (especially if it's giving you problems) but other than that, if it aint broken dont fix it

Hivemind187 wrote:

Tight bore barrel with or without hop twist (I know some of you are using them)?

yea, go for a tightbore, the jury is still out on the twist barrel at the moment, Dar has one installed in his TM mp5 (which is currently having gearbox troubles) but i may get one and run some accuracy tests on it to see is a twist actually any better than a standard tightbore

Hivemind187 wrote:

Whats the score with piston heads?

there are many many choices of piston head, and again, if it aint broken dont fix it, maybe change the o-ring if it's leaky, but other than that, no reason to change it unless you want to go for a lightweight/aluminium piston head (this will help increase your rate of fire)

oh, and also you can get piston heads that have bearings in them, this will help relieve stress on the spring and helps increase rate of fire, if you're gonna put in a bearing piston head, install a bearing spring guide aswell

Hivemind187 wrote:

How about cylinder heads and spring guides?

cylinder head should be fine in an ICS, hard to say without actually seeing your gearbox tho

spring guides - as long as it's a metal one you'll be fine, as above, if your gonna use bearings on the piston, get a spring guide with bearings

Hivemind187 wrote:

Its not just for my benefit but these are the kinds of confused worries anyone who isnt too familiar with engineering and electrical technicals will have before choosing their upgrade parts.

(I'll probably bug Kdouglas about this later )

any other questions, feel free to ask

Hivemind187

Thanks man. That actually clears a lot of it up. It might be worth putting an encyclopedia of parts together so that we know what we are talking about.

defenderdude

Is there a rule of thumb for "cutting down" springs?
ie. cut 5% to give 5% reduction, cut 10% to give 20% reduction...

Is it very difficult or is it just trial an error...

Hivemind187

defenderdude wrote:

Is there a rule of thumb for "cutting down" springs?
ie. cut 5% to give 5% reduction, cut 10% to give 20% reduction...

Is it very difficult or is it just trial an error...

I've heard cutting them buggers them permanently. The only real way to reduce the latent energy stored in a spring is to leave it compressed for a period of time which will cause it degrade.

kdouglas

defenderdude wrote:

Is there a rule of thumb for "cutting down" springs?
ie. cut 5% to give 5% reduction, cut 10% to give 20% reduction...

Is it very difficult or is it just trial an error...

cutting is not an effective way to reduce the strength of a spring unless you have the tools necessary to crimp the end neatly (i.e. the way the spring originally looks, leaving sharp pointy edges on a spring is just inviting damage to the inside of your gearbox

simple solution: buy a 1J spring, they're really not that expensive

Hivemind187 wrote:

I've heard cutting them buggers them permanently. The only real way to reduce the latent energy stored in a spring is to leave it compressed for a period of time which will cause it degrade.

aye, in theory this will change the pitch of the spring, but again it's not an exact science, so unless you have a chrono at home and are willing to open your gearbox repeatedly until you get the spring compressed to 1J then just buy a 1J spring

again, a thing to note is that springs work differently in different aeg's
i.e. my p90 fires between .98 and 1J, but i could put it into a different aeg and it could fire in anywhere between .75 and 1

defenderdude

kdouglas wrote:

cutting is not an effective way to reduce the strength of a spring unless you have the tools necessary to crimp the end neatly (i.e. the way the spring originally looks, leaving sharp pointy edges on a spring is just inviting damage to the inside of your gearbox

simple solution: buy a 1J spring, they're really not that expensive

k then, sorted.
Ta.