Racism Taxi Drivers or Public?

Spook_ie

Please feel free to move this thread to where ever

Interesting article in the Irish Times today on page 13. Where it appears people are by passing the 1st taxi on a rank ( if its driven by people of an African heritage ) and taking the next cab.

Two main questions cross my mind ( as a Taxi Driver )

1 Is there a LEGAL requirement to take the 1st taxi at a rank?

2 If I refuse to take the fare who has moved down the rank to my car, am I in breach of regulations that LEGALY require me to take that fare ( suppose it sort of X.references to Q1 in that Does the customer have the right to select their taxi at a rank )

Black Swan

Hey, good spycraft tells you never to take the first taxi in the rank!:cool:

Dave!

Spook_ie wrote:

Please feel free to move this thread to where ever

Interesting article in the Irish Times today on page 13. Where it appears people are by passing the 1st taxi on a rank ( if its driven by people of an African heritage ) and taking the next cab.

Two main questions cross my mind ( as a Taxi Driver )

1 Is there a LEGAL requirement to take the 1st taxi at a rank?

2 If I refuse to take the fare who has moved down the rank to my car, am I in breach of regulations that LEGALY require me to take that fare ( suppose it sort of X.references to Q1 in that Does the customer have the right to select their taxi at a rank )

1. No it's not a legal requirement. It's against the regulations for a taxi not to take your fare unless they think you (i) might assault them, (ii) might damage their car, or (iii) say you're going beyond a certain distance (I don't remember what distance it is) -- but there's no requirement for you to give your fare to any taxi. You can pick and choose. I was listening to a taxi representative guy on the radio this morning, that's how I know this...

2. I believe it is against regulations to not take the fare, yes.

Savman

Spook_ie wrote:

Please feel free to move this thread to where ever

Interesting article in the Irish Times today on page 13. Where it appears people are by passing the 1st taxi on a rank ( if its driven by people of an African heritage ) and taking the next cab.

Two main questions cross my mind ( as a Taxi Driver )

1 Is there a LEGAL requirement to take the 1st taxi at a rank?

2 If I refuse to take the fare who has moved down the rank to my car, am I in breach of regulations that LEGALY require me to take that fare ( suppose it sort of X.references to Q1 in that Does the customer have the right to select their taxi at a rank )

IIRC the customer who is at the top of the Q has the choice of any taxi on the rank. Now, taxi drivers will argue that "they have to take the first car" but that's not the case as far as I am aware.
If a customer skips 3 cars and approaches you, I do believe you cannot refuse once you are at a designated Taxi Rank.

I worked with you lot in the airport for 5 years so was forced to learn some of the rules that yiz break constantly regardless.

Spook_ie

DaveMcG wrote:

1. No it's not a legal requirement. It's against the regulations for a taxi not to take your fare unless they think you (i) might assault them, (ii) might damage their car, or (iii) say you're going beyond a certain distance (I don't remember what distance it is) -- but there's no requirement for you to give your fare to any taxi. You can pick and choose. I was listening to a taxi representative guy on the radio this morning, that's how I know this...

2. I believe it is against regulations to not take the fare, yes.

I've trawled the TaxiRegulators site ( taxiregulator.ie ) for a reference to taking the 1st taxi at a rank and so far I have not managed to find any, If you have a link let me know

Ekancone

Why not ring the Taxi Regulator?

Spook_ie

daithifleming wrote:

Why not ring the Taxi Regulator?

Have you ever rang them? Its like ringing most regulatory offices Piller to post to piller

I have emailed them but so far nada

arybvtcw0eolkf

Forgive me if I have this one wrong.

But your thread is titled 'Racism Taxi drivers or Public' and you don't show how taxi drivers might be racist?.

There's racists in all walks of life, in all colours, race and creed.

Btw, I'm getting off work now. Bet this one turns nasty as hell when I'm back tomorrow

gurramok

This is more about lack of English language understanding by foreign registered taxi drivers rather than any racist attitude by joe public or the taxi drivers themselves.
Some members of the public have a fear of a very long journey with the consequence huge fare price due to lack of understanding of routes by certain non-english speaking drivers.
I had this happen to me before, took about 2 hrs to get home when normally it would have taken 30mins, taxi driver did apologise is sketchy English and did not charge me the 2 hr fare.
Of course, if all taxi drivers had proper grasp of English(maybe a cert or something?), it wouldn't be an issue.

What do taxi drivers here themselves reckon is the root cause of the problem?

Spook_ie

Mairt wrote:

Forgive me if I have this one wrong.

But your thread is titled 'Racism Taxi drivers or Public' and you don't show how taxi drivers might be racist?.

There's racists in all walks of life, in all colours, race and creed.

Btw, I'm getting off work now. Bet this one turns nasty as hell when I'm back tomorrow

Its more to do with the gist of the Times article, One of the points made is that passengers refuse to get into the 1st car if its being driven by a "black person"

from the Times

"It happens a lot.You're waiting in the queue, you're number one, then they look in the window, see that you'r a black person" he said "Then they walk off to the next car, who is a white driver, and they take that one"

To me ( rightly or wrongly ) this implies that the customer and the driver behind are complicit in racism, unless there is a LEGAL basis for customers not to have to take the 1st taxi.

I ( as a taxi driver ) often send people to the front of the queue but that particular situation luckily hasn't ( yet ) arisen

MooseJam

if you go to the third car in the rank are the second or fourth car obliged to move to let the cab out of the rank ? he could be stuck

biko

Don't you need English to get you PSV licence in the first place?

Spook_ie

MooseJam wrote:

if you go to the third car in the rank are the second or fourth car obliged to move to let the cab out of the rank ? he could be stuck

Being on a radio as well, if I'm on a rank I make sure I can get out if I need to

Spook_ie

biko wrote:

Don't you need English to get you PSV licence in the first place?

There have been many ( non substantiated ) rumours that if English is not your 1st language ( not sure what happens if its Irish ) that you require a lower percentage to pass!

biko

As long as they take me home I don't care if they're black, brown, white or even from Mayo

arybvtcw0eolkf

biko wrote:

Don't you need English to get you PSV licence in the first place?

You also need a working knowledge of the area your plying for hire

How so many Non-Irish born nationals are passing the S.P.V.S. test is beyond me.

Seriously, having taken and passed the test it beats the bollox out of me. But I guess mine is not to reason why!!.

arybvtcw0eolkf

biko wrote:

As long as they take me home I don't care if they're black, brown, white or even from Mayo

Neither do I.

But when I get a taxi I'm usually with my better half and might want to chat, or I could have something to discuss on the phone during the journey. So my having to give directions to each and every turn is a royal pain in the arse and something I can do without.

I posted this one recently. I jumped into a taxi on Dame St a while back. It was about 01:30am and told the guy 'Portmarnock'. I might as well have said "surface of mars please'. So I told him to go over O'Connell Bridge onto Eden Quay ... no joy ... "Ok, take me to the bottom of the Malahide Rd please" ... Blank look in the mirror!... "Ok pal, I'll get out here and get another cab" (patience is not my strong point) "Ok brother, that'll be €4:10" ... "That'll be asked the butt end of my bollox pal"..

There wasn't a snowballs chance in hell I was going to give directions every step of the way then be charged €20 ++ for it!.

But this type of bad service is accross the board in this country now and not confined to foreign taxi drivers.

Terry

Three times a cab driver has dropped me to a specific location in Dublin and each time the driver was foreign,
Same guy on the last two journeys, but they both knew exactly where they were going.

Tha Gopher

Mairt wrote:

How so many Non-Irish born nationals are passing the S.P.V.S. test is beyond me.

Seriously, having taken and passed the test it beats the bollox out of me. But I guess mine is not to reason why!!.

Indeed. Most foreign drivers know the direction to general areas, but ive hailed one or two off the street in D15 who havent a clue where anywhere local is, and, as said, you wonder how they passed the test. Two different (Irish taxi men) told me foreigners have a lower req pass rate but another driver (Irish, who incdentally was complaining about foreign drivers) told me that was bollix, so dunno who to believe.

Personally the biggest con job was off an irish female taxi driver (twice, the same oul one few months apart, owes me at least 6 quid in overcharging between the two fares regarding her bizarre routes)

meglome

Well I can tell you as fact is the girlfriend has had two recent occasions where taxi drivers took her the long way round. Both times these drivers were African. Maybe they didn't know where they were going or maybe they were jacking up the fare... no way to know which.

It does beg the question... I have found the African drivers to be very poor with where they are going in Dublin. So how did they get their taxi licence? Something doesn't add up about this. My only suggestions are: They might be getting others to sit the test for them or having other people drive the cab. Failing that it only leaves that the test itself is rubbish which I'm hoping is not the case.

keefg

biko wrote:

As long as they take me home I don't care if they're black, brown, white or even from Mayo

Good comment my friend, my sentiments exactly.

Anyway, the baby Jesus gave us satnav so non-national drivers could take us drunk people home. There endeth the need for endless turn by turn directions.

arybvtcw0eolkf

meglome wrote:

It does beg the question... I have found the African drivers to be very poor with where they are going in Dublin. So how did they get their taxi licence? Something doesn't add up about this. My only suggestions are: They might be getting others to sit the test for them or having other people drive the cab. Failing that it only leaves that the test itself is rubbish which I'm hoping is not the case.

I've done the test, its not rocket science. However you DO need to know (Dublin in my case) very well. Not only main roads etc, but hospitals (private included), theaters, sports venues, hotels, nightclubs and major pubs, parks and tourist attractions.

You need to know the train stations and what trains run to where from them.

Your also asked routes from those theaters, clubs etc back to hotels. Airport & train stations, I got a detour along the way thrown in.

There's also rules of the road, S.P.S.V. rules & regs etc.

Now I don't really believe the rumour about the lower passrate, but I do wonder just how many are passing the test for other's.

Wishbone Ash

Many potential passengers will refuse to use the first taxi or any subsequent taxi if the vehicle or the driver is dirty. They are perfectly entitled to do so.

MooseJam wrote:

if you go to the third car in the rank are the second or fourth car obliged to move to let the cab out of the rank ? he could be stuck

All good drivers, in any type of queue, will always leave enough room in front to enable an exit to be made without requiring the vehicle in front to move.


EDIT: Lately, I see a lot of taxis with tow-bars fitted. That used to be illegal IIRC. Has the regulation changed?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

i've never been allowed take anything but the first taxi on the rank

arybvtcw0eolkf

Wishbone Ash wrote:

EDIT: Lately, I see a lot of taxis with tow-bars fitted. That used to be illegal IIRC. Has the regulation changed?

I don't remember anything like that in the rules & regs.

The required vehicle standards in this country are actually very low. However every taxi has to pass the NCT test once a year, including brand new cars. So I'd imagine if a tow bar was illegal those taxi's would fail the test.

Wishbone Ash

Mairt wrote:

I don't remember anything like that in the rules & regs.

The required vehicle standards in this country are actually very low. However every taxi has to pass the NCT test once a year, including brand new cars. So I'd imagine if a tow bar was illegal those taxi's would fail the test.

It used to be a common sight to see the flat plate with the ball removed. I was told that it was because having a tow bar on a taxi was illegal but it was OK once the ball hitch was unbolted. Lately though, every second taxi seems to have the full tow bar fitted. I must do a bit of searching on that.

(The annual NCT is irrevelant really as it could be removed for the duration of the test).

arybvtcw0eolkf

Wishbone Ash wrote:

It used to be a common sight to see the flat plate with the ball removed. I was told that it was because having a tow bar on a taxi was illegal but it was OK once the ball hitch was unbolted. Lately though, every second taxi seems to have the full tow bar fitted. I must do a bit of searching on that.

(The annual NCT is irrevelant really as it could be removed for the duration of the test).

Yea, I'm not saying your wrong. I just don't remember this being an issue.

SluggerO'Toole

DaveMcG wrote:

1. No it's not a legal requirement. It's against the regulations for a taxi not to take your fare unless they think you (i) might assault them, (ii) might damage their car, or (iii) say you're going beyond a certain distance (I don't remember what distance it is) -- but there's no requirement for you to give your fare to any taxi. You can pick and choose. I was listening to a taxi representative guy on the radio this morning, that's how I know this...

2. I believe it is against regulations to not take the fare, yes.

Whenever I want to get a taxi at st stephens green I'm always walking from east of st stephens green which means I have to walk past about 30 taxis to get to the 1st taxi at the rank, which is really annoying since I'm almost always in a rush. But I'm sure if I tried to get the last taxi at the rank I would just be told to go to the first taxi. There really should be more taxis at the taxi rank near burger king on baggot street

Sir Oxman

biko wrote:

As long as they take me home I don't care if they're black, brown, white or even from Mayo

Exactly.
IMO, the custom has always been to take the first taxi in the rank - it's merely good manners (on the customers behalf for a start)
Now, the amount of times I've heard a taximan first in the rank refuse a fare as it's too short or out of his way is very high - they do not get my custom.

As far as foreign taximen are concerned, I gave leeway the first four or five times when I was driven all over the place despite my telling them they were well offtrack and giving directions every inch of the way.

No more does the 'I'm only new here' wash with me (and that applies to some of the homebred chancers too)
I've never had one Irish or foreign taximan who didn't know what he was doing say, go ahead I'll charge you waht you normally pay for the journey.

They got what I normally pay for the journey. End of. (And no bloody tip either)

Victor

keefg wrote:

Anyway, the baby Jesus gave us satnav so non-national drivers could take us drunk people home. There endeth the need for endless turn by turn directions.

Walking home one night, I was stopped by a (I think Nigerian) taxi driver with an inebriated Irish passenger. The pasenger was claiming the driver was going the wrong way, but the driver was convinced he was going the correct way. It turns out the pasenger lived around the corner from me and the way the passenger wanted to go is marginally longer, although many people use it because it bypasses a slow traffic light.

Stories of going the wrong way aren't always to the passenger's detriment.

Dave!

SluggerO'Toole wrote:

Whenever I want to get a taxi at st stephens green I'm always walking from east of st stephens green which means I have to walk past about 30 taxis to get to the 1st taxi at the rank, which is really annoying since I'm almost always in a rush. But I'm sure if I tried to get the last taxi at the rank I would just be told to go to the first taxi. There really should be more taxis at the taxi rank near burger king on baggot street

Yeah I'm sure if someone from the end of the queue got the fare, the other lads would see him as skipping. But yer man on the radio said there was no rule, so I guess it's just manners!

Snake Plisken

It was on Newstalk yesterday morning about this, problem didn't seem to be Dublin, more to do with Galway & Drogeda? Any Boardies from these areas want to elaborate? Also do you need to do the tests to get your license outside the pale?

SimpleSam06

Snake Plisken wrote:

It was on Newstalk yesterday morning about this, problem didn't seem to be Dublin, more to do with Galway & Drogeda? Any Boardies from these areas want to elaborate? Also do you need to do the tests to get your license outside the pale?

You do need to do the tests to get your licence, and I was informed by a taxi driver yesterday that non-national drivers don't have to answer the same number of questions in the test as Irish drivers, and they get financial assistance with the insurance and licence fees. How true that is is anyone's guess, but I could see it happening. The thinking might be that its better to get them out there earning some sort of a wage, by hook or by crook, than putting them on the dole.

Skipping the first driver if he is black does happen a lot in Galway, but then again many people seem to feel that they will overcharge. Most of the taxi companies flat out refuse to allow black members, which is illegal, as far as I know, but not something you can stop, since they also refuse a lot of white people for a variety of reasons.

Spook_ie

Snake Plisken wrote:

It was on Newstalk yesterday morning about this, problem didn't seem to be Dublin, more to do with Galway & Drogeda? Any Boardies from these areas want to elaborate? Also do you need to do the tests to get your license outside the pale?

It is a known fact that the standards required to obtain an SPSV drivers license varies from on area to another.

Dublin Approx 60 questions on Routes, Areas, Landmarks, Hospitals, Roads adjoining another road, Areas adjoining Areas Etc.

Mayo Paperwork in order and the Gards can't see any reason for you not to have a license

Louth 20 Questions on Road and SPSV regulations...

Now one of the arguments that taxi drivers have been putting forward for the old number system was you could tell where a taxi was licensed to operate, now it relys on the driver ID card, all very good as long as the card is displayed properly.

Next time your in a cab, take a look and if the ID isn't set so that people outside the car can see the licencees area, ask yourself why? and is this driver insured for this journey if we crash?

arybvtcw0eolkf

Spook_ie wrote:

Next time your in a cab, take a look and if the ID isn't set so that people outside the car can see the licencees area, ask yourself why? and is this driver insured for this journey if we crash?

The problem there is, if you remember your instructions upon getting your new card, is that it only states it must be visable to all the car's occupants. It says nothing about displaying the reverse side to anyone.

The public, and taxi drivers need a dedicated squad of inspectors to check on taxi drivers. The cops should also pay closer attention to the driver ID cards like they did with the old fare cards.

IMO the regulators office is a joke.

Spook_ie

Mairt wrote:

The problem there is, if you remember your instructions upon getting your new card, is that it only states it must be visable to all the car's occupants. It says nothing about displaying the reverse side to anyone.

The public, and taxi drivers need a dedicated squad of inspectors to check on taxi drivers. The cops should also pay closer attention to the driver ID cards like they did with the old fare cards.

IMO the regulators office is a joke.

The card has the drivers ID on one side and on the other side ( I know that you know, Mairt, but for all other people ) has the area the driver is licensed to work in. The instructions for display are


Displaying Driver ID

Drivers should ensure that the new Driver ID is displayed prominently on the dashboard of your car so that it can be seen clearly from the front of your vehicle, but also by passengers. The side displaying the area in which you are licensed to operate should face outwards leaving the side displaying your name, picture and licence number facing the customer inside the vehicle.
New licence holders should note that due to the requirement for transfer of documentation from the Gardaí to the Commission, there will be a waiting period of approximately two weeks between a renewal or issue of a new licence and arrangement of the collection of your Driver ID.

johnnyskeleton

spook ie wrote:

2 If I refuse to take the fare who has moved down the rank to my car, am I in breach of regulations that LEGALY require me to take that fare ( suppose it sort of X.references to Q1 in that Does the customer have the right to select their taxi at a rank )

I'd like to try moving down the rank and if the taxi driver tells me to take the first in the queue, ask him is there a cartel of taxi drivers in an anti-competitive agreement to distort prices in the market.

Sadly I only ever get taxis when I'm pissed and at that time of night you're lucky to get any taxi, nevermind there being a queue of them.

tomcollins97

Am I correct in thinking that foreign nationals have a lower pass rate for the PSV test? If that is the case should their fares not be reduced pro-rata?

Zzippy

Snake Plisken wrote:

It was on Newstalk yesterday morning about this, problem didn't seem to be Dublin, more to do with Galway & Drogeda? Any Boardies from these areas want to elaborate? Also do you need to do the tests to get your license outside the pale?

Yeah it was in the local papers here recently - the African taxi drivers were complaining about racism by customers. From experience in Galway, the only time people really have to take the first taxi in the rank is late at night when there's a queue, at other times if you come to the end of the rank first its quite normal just to take the end taxi.

The African drivers have got a bad rep now so a lot of people here seem to skip the first cab if its a black driver, particularly women customers on their own. Have been rumours about drivers harassing women on their own, but I don't know how true they are.

My own experience has borne out what I've heard - several times I've had African drivers try to take me the long way home, costs about 5 quid extra. I don't not take taxis with black drivers now, I just make sure to tell them which route to take. Besides, you can have some craic with them if they are devout Christians - some of them are real Bible-bashers and try to preach to you, it can be hilarious

meglome

Galwayguy99 wrote:

Yeah it was in the local papers here recently - the African taxi drivers were complaining about racism by customers. From experience in Galway, the only time people really have to take the first taxi in the rank is late at night when there's a queue, at other times if you come to the end of the rank first its quite normal just to take the end taxi.

The African drivers have got a bad rep now so a lot of people here seem to skip the first cab if its a black driver, particularly women customers on their own. Have been rumours about drivers harassing women on their own, but I don't know how true they are.

My own experience has borne out what I've heard - several times I've had African drivers try to take me the long way home, costs about 5 quid extra. I don't not take taxis with black drivers now, I just make sure to tell them which route to take. Besides, you can have some craic with them if they are devout Christians - some of them are real Bible-bashers and try to preach to you, it can be hilarious

I would imagine there is an element of racism with people who won't get into a car with a black driver. But as I've said already myself and the girlfriends experience is that they drive you the long way round (whatever the reason). This could be easily sorted it there were proper checks on all cabs, to check who’s driving, go on test journeys etc with a retest every few years.

I'm the same as you I'll get in the car with anyone and I've no problem telling them exactly where I want to go. Although luckily I know Dublin very well. The girlfriend isn't keen to get into a cab with Africans any more but her knowledge of Dublin isn't as extensive as mine.

Savman

So people refuse to get into a taxi for fear of -god forbid- having to give the driver directions? What an age we live in.:rolleyes:

pickarooney

What about black Irish drivers - where do they fit into the grand scheme of who you feel OK about refusing to let drive you home?

Pythia

Had a black guy last night. He had no idea where we were going.
Only had one other one, he spent the whole time having an argument in a foreign language on speakphone, also had no idea where we were going even though it was 10 mins away, I had to shout over the speakerphone to give directions.

Rob_l

Savman wrote:

So people refuse to get into a taxi for fear of -god forbid- having to give the driver directions? What an age we live in.:rolleyes:

In many instances passangers are not ina position to give the driver directions, perhaps not knowing the route and surely this si the drivers job i mean when i go to a restaurant the chef does not ask me how to cook my food computer techniciansdo not ask me how to fix my pc and taxi drivers unless told a specific route should know themselves not to specific estates but definetly yo general locations.

And I'll see your:rolleyes:
and raise you:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Exit

meglome wrote:

I would imagine there is an element of racism with people who won't get into a car with a black driver.

I'd imagine there is.

In fact, my mother was out with a male friend and the first fella in the rank was black, and the friend said to her "Let's get the next one, I'm not getting in a taxi with a ******" :rolleyes:

Spook_ie

So surely the problem at the bottom of this woodpile is that the Gards/Taxi Regulator should be making sure that people who are driving taxis have a reasonable knowledge of the area they are working in? and if they don't know the area then they should be having their license to drive a taxi suspended.

Now as for enforcement how much would it take to get the Gards in their Tax/insurance check points to do the following when a taxi comes along

1. Look at the tax/nct disk as normal

2. Look at the yellow taxi license sticker to check its in date ( if its not the vehicle is unlicensed and therefore uninsured )

3. Check that the driver has his/her ID on display (showing the area they are licensed for )

4. If questionable about 1,2 or 3 then checking that the Insureance cert actualy does cover for SPSV work

2 and 3 should take about 30 seconds a car if they are in order

So Glad

Lets just hope taxi drivers never start blogs.

Spook_ie

So Glad wrote:

Lets just hope taxi drivers never start blogs.

You would have a problem with taximen having blogs! Why you're not worried that you'd be in a few?

thebman

Spook_ie wrote:

Its more to do with the gist of the Times article, One of the points made is that passengers refuse to get into the 1st car if its being driven by a "black person"

from the Times
To me ( rightly or wrongly ) this implies that the customer and the driver behind are complicit in racism, unless there is a LEGAL basis for customers not to have to take the 1st taxi.

I ( as a taxi driver ) often send people to the front of the queue but that particular situation luckily hasn't ( yet ) arisen

Sorry but from the quote in the Irish Times it looks like the taxi driver is assuming Irish people are racist and jumping to conclusions that this is why they don't want to get in his Taxi.

It could be a crappy taxi he drives or the lack of knowledge and ripping off that other people have heard stories about which is not racist behaviour, just bad luck that he looks like people that rip off passengers (if enough stories went around about red headed taxi drivers and they suspected people weren't getting in their cabs because they have red hair, people would probably laugh at them and call them gingers) or don't know where they are going.

I've gotten in the first taxi when it was a black person, didn't even think about it at the time or check the drivers skin colour. I did check to see what type of car I was getting into though.

meglome

Savman wrote:

So people refuse to get into a taxi for fear of -god forbid- having to give the driver directions? What an age we live in.:rolleyes:

I think ALL drivers should be checked and have to do a retest every few years. Problem would be solved.

thebman

Savman wrote:

So people refuse to get into a taxi for fear of -god forbid- having to give the driver directions? What an age we live in.:rolleyes:

I hope your drunk posting nonsense like that!

I don't ever expect to have to give a taxi driver directions. I'd only be getting a taxi if I have to or if I don't know the area and don't know which bus to get.

Next I'll be expected to give the doctor directions to my appendix or the operating theatre. Ah sure the cafeteria out the back will do if you can't tell me where to go, this isn't rocket science.

I expect people to be able to do the jobs they are trained to do at a minimum. If you can't do something you've been trained to do, your a useless piece of crap. I mean your trained to do your job so you'll know how to do it. Are you understanding this yet or have you sobered up yet?