Astrology

Dave!

Hey folks,

just wondering who here believes in astrology? Of all the "paranormal" beliefs, etc., I find astrology to be up there with the most nonsensical.

But despite that, it's extremely prevalent in newspapers, magazines, hotlines, etc. I'm sure that most people read it for entertainment and don't take it seriously, but some people do...

So just wondering do any of ye believe it, and what's your reasoning behind it?

Also wouldn't mind hearing others' opinions on it

Nevyn

It is a lot more then just 5 lines about a sun sign in a paper.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_astrology

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrology

http://www.meta-religion.com/Esoterism/Astrology/history_of_astrology.htm

Proper astrology works form a complete chart of where all the planets and the comets were in the astrological houses at the time a person is born ( also known as a natal chart ) and predictive astrology works as the influence off
where the planets are, what direction they are moving and how they align with each other in different types of conjunctions, be they triangles, square's, crosses ect.

http://www.astro.com

is a reasonable good site with resources.

http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_info_e.htm

Like other forums of divination it has been dumbed down for the masses
but it has a more straight forward way of divining matters which anyone can
look up the planets, their positions and their means.

I have an interest in it and find it can explain certain things due to certain influences but I don't plan my life or put off plan due to how the planets are aglined. ( well aside from the moon and sun but those are religious matters not astrological matters.)

Lucas10101

Quite frankly, it is a load of bullsh1t. Why I hear you ask? Because it was developed in ancient times where there were many beliefs they believed to be true but we now know are fantasy.

If we read one of the newspaper articles, one has to agree that no matter what we read, in about 100 people, 90% will be able to apply those meanings to their life. When reading one again, note how superficial the comments are...sure their nearly repeated every 2nd week. Things like " You will find love..." etc are superficial comments and people looking for love will end up reading it. And to be quite honest, after reading all of the signs....most of it would in some way apply to my life.

And it begs another question, why is it that one astrologer makes comments, and another which I read had completely opposite and different meanings? It's just wrong.

What qualifies someone to say their an astrologer? Do they do a 2 year diploma in Trinity or are they the "Special Ones" who were born with these superhuman powers?

There might be some logic behind the theory of ancient astrologers, but that doesn't make it true in the slightest. We manipulate their comments to fit our own lifestyle which makes them seem to be true. Think again!!!

Dave!

Thanks for that Thaedydal.

But how could the position of the planets at the time of birth possibly affect anybody at all, ever? What force is it that might act on them to influence their lives?

Lucas10101

None, it was all hypothetical.

Nevyn

Lucas10101 wrote:

Quite frankly, it is a load of bullsh1t. Why I hear you ask? Because it was developed in ancient times where there were many beliefs they believed to be true but we now know are fantasy.

And there were beliefs that still hold true. /shrug

Lucas10101 wrote:

If we read one of the newspaper articles, one has to agree that no matter what we read, in about 100 people, 90% will be able to apply those meanings to their life. When reading one again, note how superficial the comments are...sure their nearly repeated every 2nd week. Things like " You will find love..." etc are superficial comments and people looking for love will end up reading it. And to be quite honest, after reading all of the signs....most of it would in some way apply to my life.

I already stated that newspaper sun sign 'astrology' is the misbegotten retarded bastard child of proper astrology.

Lucas10101 wrote:

What qualifies someone to say their an astrologer? Do they do a 2 year diploma in Trinity or are they the "Special Ones" who were born with these superhuman powers?

maybe you have been reading too many comic books.

Nevyn

DaveMcG wrote:

Thanks for that Thaedydal.

You welcome, I am by no means an expert I have an intrest and have been dipping n and out of astrology on and off for years.

DaveMcG wrote:

But how could the position of the planets at the time of birth possibly affect anybody at all, ever? What force is it that might act on them to influence their lives?

if you are talking purely scientifically then you are looking at the gravitational push, pull and play at is at work through out the solar system.

In astrology each of the planets has it's own assigned attributes.
http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_planets1_e.htm?cid=c7xfile7xISok-u1189631588

In which house the sign is at a person's birth is added to the reading after it is plotted at a person's time of birth.

http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_signs_e.htm?cid=c7xfile7xISok-u1189631588

Usually people know what thier sun sign is, ie what house the sun as in when they were born but most do know know what house the moon, mars ect was in when they were born.

Lucas10101

Like I said, there might be logic behind the theory, but that doesn't make it hold true today.

Nevyn

Lucas10101 wrote:

Like I said, there might be logic behind the theory, but that doesn't make it hold true today.

like the wheel ?

Dave!

Thaedydal wrote:

You welcome, I am by no means an expert I have an intrest and have been dipping n and out of astrology on and off for years.



if you are talking purely scientifically then you are looking at the gravitational push, pull and play at is at work through out the solar system.

In astrology each of the planets has it's own assigned attributes.
http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_planets1_e.htm?cid=c7xfile7xISok-u1189631588

In which house the sign is at a person's birth is added to the reading after it is plotted at a person's time of birth.

http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_signs_e.htm?cid=c7xfile7xISok-u1189631588

Usually people know what thier sun sign is, ie what house the sun as in when they were born but most do know know what house the moon, mars ect was in when they were born.

But the gravitational force from the planets acting on us is negligible, so there's no real way that it could affect us. The obstetrician alone exerts a far greater gravitational force on the baby than a planet! Then you can factor in the midwife, family members, etc.

stevenmu

Lucas10101, please read The Charter if you wish to continue posting in this forum. There is nothing wrong with scepticism but simply claiming something as nonsense is against the rules here. If you have a problem with this please feel free to send me a pm

Nevyn

http://www.astrologycom.com/astrol3.html

How does Astrology work?
The Tardis Our bodies react to the world in ways which are still barely understood. We constantly interact with our environment on many levels, from the sub-atomic to the metaphysical. These physical, mental, emotional, even spiritual, levels of interaction vary in depth and intensity according to our character and training. Our world is really much more like a marvellous mind than a mere machine.

Our bodies are like sensitive broadcasting and receiving stations. We respond to a broad spectrum of radiant frequencies, not all of which have yet been catalogued by science. Bear in mind it was not so long ago that the idea of radio, movies, x-rays and televison signals would have been consigned to ridicule at best — or, more ominously, to the stake with the witches.

Some astrologers believe that planetary energies themselves generate events in our lives — and given recent advances in quantum mechanics, they may be right. Others believe, following Jung, the great psychologist, that planetary positions are synchronistically connected with our lives — meaning that environmental influences generating reactions in human beings may be tracked in the positions of the planets, although the two may not be causally related. Perhaps both are correct; in any case, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. The detailed functionality of the mechanism is not a question of meaning, but of technical analysis.

This writer believes we are organically connected with the cosmos: whatever happens to any part of the world affects us to some extent as individuals, even in ways which may be quite invisible to the casual observer. Moreover, history shows us that we react en masse much more noticeably to environmental factors which may be more or less insignificant at the individual level. As human beings and spiritual entities, it is more important to understand our place in the world than to worry too much about such technicalities. At the deepest level, all major events in our lives are governed by our karma, the product of what we have been in the (sometimes distant) past. Since the universe reflects the energies of the cosmic mind, so too do our lives. Astrology is a timed map to the expression of these energies.
Freewill and Destiny
It should be said that astrology is not generally a way of foretelling inevitable fate. Paracelsus, one of the world's greatest astrologers, remarked, quoting the ancients: "The stars incline; they do not compel" (Astra inclinant non necessistant). He meant that while planetary influences create the groundwork and basis for action in any set of circumstances, there is still the element of free will in us all. We have become masters of our own destiny to the degree to which we are no longer subject to the mechanical influences of the conditioned world. We can use the techniques and insights of astrology to make sense of our connection with each other, with the universe at large, and with our own inner selves.

Astrologers, like all good scientists, must use their knowledge in combination with a developed intuition. A personal horoscope (birth-chart) does not so much reveal a clear fate as a set of probabilities, often operating on many levels simultaneously. There is much discussion among astrologers as to just how much free will we really do have, but that is a moot point. The astrologer must clarify these probabilities and place them in perspective. My view is that the stars have a deep influence on us, but since the world is more like a being than a thing, we too can influence them. For more on this concept of the Nexus of Probability, please click here.

In astrology, as in medicine, the science is intimately bound up with the art.

Talliesin

I'm more inclined to hold with synchronicity than the planets "causing" anything.

Nevyn

Well personally I am not sure how it works but I will say from experience that it can work but we still have free will.

hiorta

It seems that planetary position may have an 'influence' rather than be a 'cause', but if you know of anyone who works in hands-on psychiatry, ask them what their working life is like at the time of the full moon.
Edgar Cayce (his earlier ancestors were Casey) fully vouched for the subtle influences that affect us, most of it below our conscious awareness levels, but also averred that no influence was greater than our own will.

Talliesin

Does a clock cause it to be lunchtime now?

SkepticOne

I would be inclined to believe that there's nothing in it. I can see fully why people are attracted to belief in astrology though. We live in an uncertain world and it is tempting to link the predictable (movement of the planets) with the hard to predict (the everyday world) and see connections.

SkepticOne

hiorta wrote:

It seems that planetary position may have an 'influence' rather than be a 'cause', but if you know of anyone who works in hands-on psychiatry, ask them what their working life is like at the time of the full moon.

Unfortunately this is a modern myth though no doubt some members of the psychiatric professions are victims of this superstition.

http://psychservices.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/56/2/221-a

For the five-year investigation period, there were 1,826 nights, of which 186 fit our definition of the full-moon effect. On those nights, a mean±SD of 2.30±1.7 patients were seen, compared with a mean of 2.32±1.56 on nights when the moon was not full. A two-sample unequal variance t test showed no significant difference between the numbers of patients seen on full-moon and non-full-moon nights.

Dave!

Hey just wanted to bump this cos I heard an interesting point made: if twins are born in the same place, minutes apart, how can they both have such drastically different fates? One may die at a young age, while another may live to be 100. If the alignment of the planets at their time of birth in any way affects their fate, then should they not both have more or less the same fate? ie. both live long lives, or both die young

hiorta

There are many things, not just planetary position, that can influence the way we live and the decisions we might take and which have a direct input in lifestyle and longevity.
Karma too, of course.
Our home environment, schooling, choice of media and reading, hobbies and interests, etc.
Education would loom large as would our elementary disposition for accepting influence.
Religious indoctrination, positive or negative, will have an impact - wanted or not.

Our own free will however can overcome all influences if we choose to run the attempts to mould us through this unfailing filter.

So many such attempts are disguised and even portrayed as being in our best interests.
Aye, right!

Riamfada

Simularly the old idea that everyone in the world born on the same day will life simular lives at least in one form or another. Its pretty clear that just like christianity / paganism ect these forms of belief hark back to ancient times as a way of explaining the supernatural, omens, precognition and to be honest cannot possibly be taken seriously by any right minded person of the 21st century.

Nevyn

DaveMcG wrote: »

Hey just wanted to bump this cos I heard an interesting point made: if twins are born in the same place, minutes apart, how can they both have such drastically different fates? One may die at a young age, while another may live to be 100. If the alignment of the planets at their time of birth in any way affects their fate, then should they not both have more or less the same fate? ie. both live long lives, or both die young

Astrology is said to have an influence, sure we have free will and so do other people and that effects our lives in a great respect.

As for the story about twins well that depends on what the planets are doing and what the transitions are.

You can get twins born minutes apart who have different sun signs ( common star signs, where the sun is when they are born ) or have a shift in one of the other planets position or transition.

Mercury recently went retrograde, the date and time was January 28, 1:31 PM MST, this means it started traveling backwards throught the astrological houses it was in Aquarius and is retracng it's path back out of Aquarius.

IF a set of twins were born one at 1:25pm on the 28th Jan and one bore at 1:35pm on the 28th Jan then one would have mercury stationary in their chart in the house of Aquarius and the other would have mercury retrograde in their chart in the house of Aquarius.

Would their lives be different for it ? I guess that depends on how much influence you believe such things have for a person.

For any that are interested.

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/astrology-articles/mercury-retrograde.php

http://www.astrologycom.com/mercret.html

http://www.writerinthewindow.com/mercury_retrograde.htm

http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_info_e.htm?cid=c7xfile7xISok-u1189631588