Grants cancelled without warning !

Western Cruiser

Hi all,

I am just having Geo Thermal heating and solar panels installed on a new house.

All of the systems are half installed having been ordered in August.

The first that I heard of the grants being cancelled was on the editorial of today's Irish Independent.

From what I can ascertain, the minister announced on 3 Sept that all grants would cease on 3 Sept ! No warning or buffer for those of us who ordered and budgeted on the basis of the publicised grants. In other words, no advance warning or buffer time zone for those of us in mid completion:( .

It looks like the geo thermal grant that I budgeted for has been halved ! So I am out by €3k !:mad:

While it seems to imply that the solar panel grant will be of the same value in the new scheme in October, the minister's press release on the green party website hints that there will be new conditions which will not be announced until Oct. Does anyone have any details? Will the new grants be open to all or just those living in certain areas or with certain incomes????

Any one have any info?

I have no problem with phasing out of grants or even specifying mandatory new technologies for future buildings..... but they should have given fair warning and take "builds in progress" into account !

ircoha

Me thinks u did not do much research either on this forum or on the www. If you had there would not have been any need for the histronics

From the sei site
Existing Greener Homes Clients
Applications received up to and including the date of the Phase II announcement (3rd September) will be accepted. Applications received after that date but which are ‘Post Marked and dated 3rd September’ or before will be accepted by SEI and processed in the normal manner against the scheme terms, conditions and grant amounts that were in place at that time.

For any householders currently in receipt of a Letter of Offer under the scheme those applications should proceed as normal provided that they submit their Request for Payment, with all appropriate documentation, within the designated twelve month period. The rule regarding no extensions remains so you are encouraged to ensure that you meet these deadlines.

Any persons who are in the process of finalising decisions and preparing application forms should be aware that we will be returning any Application Forms which we receive after the above date unless it is Post Marked September 3rd or before (the announcement date). Those people who submit applications during the pause ahead of Phase II, or who request information, will have their details logged and they will be notified by post at the time of Phase II launch. However this does not confer any preferential treatment of any subsequent applications made. The Scheme will continue to operate on a first come first served basis up to the limit of the budget allocation at that time.

Western Cruiser

Au contraire !

I did quite a lot of research.

I have been a regular visitor to the SEI website since March this year.

Please be aware that the amendment on the SEI website was only posted on 3 Sept, the same day that the grants were pulled and the same day as the ministers press release.

There was no advance warning or publicity.

This is the essence of my point.

Western Cruiser

BTW, a friend of mine from a few miles away is in the same boat and contacted his local Green Party Rep today.

The Green Party rep was in full agreement with our point and has promised to bring it up at Party HQ next week.

As an aside, I find your use of the word histrionics offensive and uncalled for. I feel that I have made a logical and temperate point. My point seems to have been shared by today's editorial in the Irish Independent.

Have I touched a sensitive green nerve perhaps?

I have also noticed that postings to this forum (unlike other postings to boards.ie) are vetted first....

Green Censorship?

maniac101

Western Cruiser wrote:

I have no problem with phasing out of grants or even specifying mandatory new technologies for future buildings..... but they should have given fair warning and take "builds in progress" into account !

The suspension of the scheme was a bit sudden alright but in fairness I think there's been a few straws in the wind of late. There's been a lot of critisism of the Greener Homes Scheme, with critics pointing to its questionable environmental benefit and the lack of vetting of registered equipment suppliers. The suspension of the scheme was probably announced at the last moment in order to prevent a run on applications.

The scheme was originally designed to get the residential renewables sector on its feet, and in that regard it's already fulfilled its goal.

While it seems to imply that the solar panel grant will be of the same value in the new scheme in October,

The old grant was given per meter squared of installed solar panels, regardless of whether evacuated tubes or flat-plate collectors were used. Since evacuated tubes have a higher energy density per m2 (and are more expensive) the old conditions unintentionally discriminated against them. The new grant will attempt to put this right by adjusting downwards the amount available for flat-plate systems.

the minister's press release on the green party website hints that there will be new conditions which will not be announced until Oct. Does anyone have any details? Will the new grants be open to all or just those living in certain areas or with certain incomes????

If there are new conditions, hopefully these will relate to the energy efficiency of buildings. I've seen €15k geothermal installations in existing buildings that deliver less in energy savings than some extra insulation would have done, at one tenth of the cost!

ircoha

Western Cruiser wrote:

Au contraire !

I did quite a lot of research.

I have been a regular visitor to the SEI website since March this year.

Please be aware that the amendment on the SEI website was only posted on 3 Sept, the same day that the grants were pulled and the same day as the ministers press release.

There was no advance warning or publicity.

This is the essence of my point.

Mon ami with all due respect , the essence of your point, from a cash perspective is as follows:

... No warning or buffer for those of us who ordered and budgeted on the basis of the publicised grants. In other words, no advance warning or buffer time zone for those of us in mid completion .

It looks like the geo thermal grant that I budgeted for has been halved ! So I am out by €3k !

Had you other things in mind when you penned 'in mid completion' such as perhaps C.... Interr.....:D
Au revoir and slan agus beannacht

ednwireland

i thought you had to apply for the grants before you start buying and installing, at least thats how i understand it. all the people i know that have availed of it have there paperwork in and approved BEFORE installations. once you start didn't think you could apply, but maybe I'm wrong cos i haven't been through the process yet

ardara1

The new building regulations that were anounced by the green party last week asked for at least 10 kWhr/m2 coming from renewable sources - Solar/Biomas or CHP mentioned - do you think the Gov't will grant aid all of these?

Oldtree

I don't think western cruiser read the fine print at the SEI website. You have to arrange your choice of system and choose an installer before you apply for the grant. its on the application forms...........

I don't rate geothermal yet. It may be that it improves to a reasonable standard vs cost in a decade or so. Til then...

GG66

western cruiser, I can sympahtise. My brother had spent moths researching his options and getting quotes only to miss the application deadline by a few days. He's now revising his whole approach to heating...

But you are supposed to apply before you begin installing. You then get aletter of offer which you have to accept by return of post. You then install and apply for grant when installation is commissioned. I'm mid installation also but had my application sorted so I'll get full grant

You must be kicking yourself

GG66

It will be interesting though to see if prices come down once grants come down.. there's certainly scope. My pellet boiler cost 6500, same boiler is a couple of grand less in UK but they wouldn't ship it to me...and I was in a hurry otherwise I would have hired a van to get it delivered.

ednwireland

yeh i'm in the same position i was looking at this last winter and i got messed around by so many installers that it was spring we rarely run heating in the summer so i thought i'd videwait until autumn before looking again (half hoping that the prices would come down a bit.) was hoping the installation process got ironed out a bit as well - no sign of that either. mind you at least stove prices in the uk dont seem to be too different from here

sarahirl

hi all,

i was at the green building forum in cultivate yesterday. eamonn ryan gave the opening speech and one person did ask the question of why the grants were pulled. his answer was that it made no sense to give money to people in the form of grants for an appliance that was going to save them money in the long run. take of that what you will. it was also mentioned during the rest of the conference that there was relief that this scheme was pulled as it was ill conceived - in other words they should have been pushing for better construction standards (insulation being the main one) and that buying a nice wood pellet boiler is no advantage if the heat being generated is just flowing out the windows, walls, ceilings, roofs and floors (and any other place i haven't mentioned).

but cancelling it so suddenly was a bit crap of them. but maybe on the other side they didn't want a rush of applicants. i'm saying this of course as a person who is not monetarily affected....

CJhaughey

I agree, If you were going to improve efficiency the first thing you would do is make sure that any heat you do have is retained by good building and insulation standards.
If the Gov't seriously thought about kickstarting the industry they would have rated renewables with a nominal or zero VAT rate, that would do far more than giving grants which only encourage cowboys and conmen.

djmc

Phase 2 opened today seems the scraped most of the installers on the list
as if it wasent hard enough to get a plummer
0 vat would be much better
Grants should be for DIY installations also to stop rip offs

Sponge Bob

djmc wrote:

Phase 2 opened today seems the scraped most of the installers on the list

The application form was put up today in revised form , its linked below. As the SEI is COMPLETELY out of money you had better be careful.

They are funding approvals from next years budget for applications they already have. Ryans department is soOOOoo over budget so far this year and the number of unfunded applications so far this year is SO high that it is possible that if you applied now and were approved this year to go ahead with it you may NOT get a penny until 2009 at the earliest.

http://www.sei.ie/getFile.asp?FC_ID=3093&docID=759

And this T&C which was not there before

The timing of payment to approved applicants is subject to the funding allocated to the Scheme / programme in a particular calendar year, in accordance with public financial procedures. Where all other conditions are met, payment will be made by SEI on a “first come, first served” basis. Where funding is exhausted in a particular calendar year, payment to remaining applicants will be deferred until such time as further funds

Someone should ask him in the Dáil

1. what the current funding position is in his department
2. what is the VALUE of all approved grants not yet paid by SEI
3. how much money does sei have to make payments from this years budget
4. How much extra money will his department give SEI this year.
5. How much did he ask for in 2008 for this scheme ????

and

6. If he has to make a choice in 2008, what will give

a) the greener homes scheme
b) the national broadband scheme

because he surely will not have the money for both

Sponge Bob

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The application form was put up today in revised form , its linked below. As the SEI is COMPLETELY out of money you had better be careful.

They are funding approvals from next years budget for applications they already have. Ryans department is soOOOoo over budget so far this year and the number of unfunded applications so far this year is SO high that it is possible that if you applied now and were approved this year to go ahead with it you may NOT get a penny until 2009 at the earliest.

Righty Ho , 2 weeks into this 'new' regime . Has anybody gotten a single penny since the plug was pulled in early september ?????

ednwireland

was wondering the same thing myself and whether there's any point in applying ?

Sponge Bob

I would think that if you apply now you will get it in the first half of next year. What Are SEI now saying to people about the current payment delay from receipt of applications.

They have the people in SEI to process from start to finish in 4 weeks which is what they used to do . They have been told by Ryan to slowwww this process right down but I am not sure by how much .

If they say 2 months that means January when they get more money from Ryan .

By March they will be out of money until January 2009 unless they drag things out even more next year.