Irish Ferries and airsoft's

nonex

i just got this emailed to me, not good if going to the uk for a game.


Irish Ferries operate to the highest safety standards, as set down by the International Maritime Organisation and monitored by the regulatory authority in each country.

We advise all passengers to be aware of the on board Assembly Stations and to listen carefully to all announcements by the crew.

Guns, firearms & weapons, any object capable or appearing capable of discharging a project or causing injury are not allowed on any Irish Ferries vessel.

Passengers are not permitted to carry the following items into the Security Restricted Area and the Public Area of the vessel:

(A) Pointed edged weapons & sharp objects, pointed or bladed articles capable of causing injury including:

Kilt pins
Axes & Hatches
Arrows & Darts
Crampons (grappling iron, hooked bar of iron, or plate with iron spikes used in mountaineering)
Harpoons & Spears
Ice axes & ice picks
Ice skates
Lockable or flick knives with blades of any length.
Knives, including ceremonial, religious and hunting knives, made of metal or any other material strong enough to be used as a potential weapon.
Meat cleavers
Machetes
Open razors and blades (excluding safety or disposable razors with blades enclosed in cartridges)
Sabres, swords & swordsticks
Scalpels
Scissors with blades of any length
Ski and walking/hiking poles
Throwing stars
Tradesman's tools that have the potential to be used as a pointed or edged weapon e.g. drill and drill bits, box cutters, utility knives, all saws, crowbars, hammers, spanners, blow torches, however, screwdrivers, wrenches, pliers and other tools.

(B) Blunt instruments, any blunt instrument capable of causing injury including:

Baseball and softball bats
Clubs or batons - rigid or flexible - e.g. Billy clubs, blackjacks (truncheon of leather covered lead with flexible shaft), night sticks & batons.
Cricket Bats
Golf clubs
Hockey and Hurley sticks
Lacrosse sticks
Kayak and Canoe paddles
Skateboards
Billiard, snooker and pool cues.
Fishing rods
Martial arts equipment e.g. knuckle dusters, clubs, coshes, rice flails, num-chucks, cubatons, kubasaunts.

Please see our terms and conditions for more detailed information.

kdouglas

doh!

that kinda sucks... what other ferry companies are there? any similar rules with them?

also, will we still be able to go to the UK once the vcra comes in? not sure if we got a definite word on that yet?

Lemming

LIGHTNING wrote:

From what I can read it doesn't mention that you cant have the items in the boot of your car.

Yes, the wording reads (to me) specific to foot passengers, or motor passengers bringing items into the main passenger area.

To say all that sporting equipment is not permitted makes no sense whatsoever when you look at it in context.

CrazyRabbit

Key words: "not allowed on any Irish Ferries vessel."

Doesn't matter if it's in the boot or in your hands.

nonex

i got the email from Countryside Alliance ,so i dont now is it for walk on passengers, or motor passengers,it's up on the shooting form as well.

Shiva

LIGHTNING wrote:

the entire document is written poorly. Its very hazy and leaves alot of grey areas.

Thats probably intentional. It leaves them lots of nice wriggle room to use discretion.

Gatling

That is some list ,ok this might sound stupid , could this be a anti-terror sitution, its way to broad to cover just VCR bill , i know it sounds stupid but look at the list ,anything that could be used as a weapon ski's n skates , its like aviation rules ,whats next no belts or shoe laces allowed on board

kdouglas

i always thought ferries were supposed to be a lot easier on security than airplanes and such?

not suggesting someone tries to circumvent their security measures, but if those rules only apply to a passenger on the ferry itself, do they actually check your car boot when boarding?

Fallschirmjager

kdouglas wrote:

i always thought ferries were supposed to be a lot easier on security than airplanes and such?

not suggesting someone tries to circumvent their security measures, but if those rules only apply to a passenger on the ferry itself, do they actually check your car boot when boarding?

well they didnt any time i have been on them...it was a drive on drive off affair...they do have customs tho and they can ask. dont recall irish ferries ever doing that.

we imported our dog from sweden (legally i might add!) and the customs guy asked to see the papers, said thats grand and off we went...fairly relaxed as it happens...although like all customs guys/gals i would not give any guff to them unless you have a big liking for vaseline and rubber gloves.

kdouglas

***shudders***

aye, as always, better safe than sorry, so no transporting aeg's via Irish Ferries then!

odonnell

other companies are P&O and Stenaline. Ive had all sorts of things in my luggage before in coming across (when i moved from glasgow and had half my worldly goods in the car) and i was never checked. I think we have had the boot opened once and nothing was said about anything really - and that included the old kilt pin.

Lemming

kdouglas wrote:

***shudders***

aye, as always, better safe than sorry, so no transporting aeg's via Irish Ferries then!

Even simpler suggestion. Don't use Irish Ferries, and let them know why.

The public is not there to cater to them, they're there to cater to the public, and they're not in this case, or any other legitimate sport like shooting, paintball, archery, etc.

Fallschirmjager

odonnell wrote:

and that included the old kilt pin.

run around, screaming, pregnant women first, WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN!!! THINK OF THE CHILDREN FOR GAWDS SAKE!!! nutty scottish guy with LETHAL, i repeat LETHAL kilt pin (and slightly more worrying, showing way way too much with his kilt open), someone call the eru quick, ...

odonnell

does make you wonder though - how do the worlds athletes and sporting professionals travel with their equipment? Must they get dispensation due to their profession? Id say no olympic archer or cross country ski-er would be too happy about hiring a bow or rifle at the other end for competition.

odonnell

Fallschirmjager wrote:

run around, screaming, pregnant women first, WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN!!! THINK OF THE CHILDREN FOR GAWDS SAKE!!! nutty scottish guy with LETHAL, i repeat LETHAL kilt pin (and slightly more worrying, showing way way too much with his kilt open), someone call the eru quick, ...

I sense that doesnt normally happen here? *shrug* happens every day in Glasgow

hehe

Fallschirmjager

odonnell wrote:

does me you wonder though - how do the worlds athletes and sporting professionals travel with their equipment? Must they get dispensation due to their profession? Id say no olympic archer or cross country ski-er would be too happy about hiring a bow or rifle at the other end for competition.

shows you just how incredibly stupid it is...the only people who wont do it are here on these threads... :rolleyes: and yet we will get the blame for it when some complete spanner gets caught trying it...

Del2005

any blunt instrument capable of causing injury

It's so vague that according to this you can't bring you car onto the boat. Thats a very big blunt instrument capable of causing injury . Even your wheel brace is banned according to this.

Though any time I've been on a boat there has never been any checks.

odonnell

it certainly puts me in a position of deciding whether or not to chance it when i go back home. I had initially intended to pay a visit to airsoftscotland next time im over but.... i dunno. Better not to chance it eh?

I was sure, before, that a simple demonstration would sort the whole thing out ie. they open your boot, they find a box with a picture of an m4 on the front and they say something to the effect of "woah nelly...." ....to which you say hang on a second... its a toy - look...[connect battery, load BBs] *pop* ... produce an ASI for them to have a squizz at while you happily pack the stuff back into your boot and carry on your merry way....

no?

Fallschirmjager

Lemming wrote:

Even simpler suggestion. Don't use Irish Ferries, and let them know why.

The public is not there to cater to them, they're there to cater to the public, and they're not in this case, or any other legitimate sport like shooting, paintball, archery, etc.

now that is smart..good one lemming...because we are slowly , getting to a point where if we coordianated a campaign of contact...and they saw how much money they would be loosing...well as they say money speaks louder then words. of course we could be very proactive and helpful, e.g. aeg locked in a box inside a car blah blah blah...

sidneyreilly

Already dropped them a line regarding firearms asking them to clarify and explaining how much sports people prefer to use their service. Do the same from your perspective customersupport@irishferries.com

Fallschirmjager

sidneyreilly wrote:

Already dropped them a line regarding firearms asking them to clarify and explaining how much sports people prefer to use their service. Do the same from your perspective customersupport@irishferries.com

cool..i am definitely going to do that today..

kdouglas

odonnell wrote:

it certainly puts me in a position of deciding whether or not to chance it when i go back home. I had initially intended to pay a visit to airsoftscotland next time im over but.... i dunno. Better not to chance it eh?

I was sure, before, that a simple demonstration would sort the whole thing out ie. they open your boot, they find a box with a picture of an m4 on the front and they say something to the effect of "woah nelly...." ....to which you say hang on a second... its a toy - look...[connect battery, load BBs] *pop* ... produce an ASI for them to have a squizz at while you happily pack the stuff back into your boot and carry on your merry way....

no?

actually, i wouldnt go firing bb's around on irish ferries, but maybe show them it's battery powered and that it fires bb's and nothing else!

odonnell

yeh thats what i meant.... they normally check your car at the entrance to the site at weigh-in so youre outdoors at the time. But yeh.... youd think thatd do the job.. ?

Might phone Stena and ask them, ive never used IF

Lemming

Be sure to mention that you'll simply take your business to their competitors, and that AEGs are permitted by almost all air-carriers (sh*te-aer being the exception) with sensible precautions - unloaded, locked container, etc.

Fallschirmjager

i just got a one liner from Irish Ferries, which was cut from their pdf (the font change is a bit of a giveaway), pretty much telling me in polite terms to PFO.

Lemming

Fallschirmjager wrote:

i just got a one liner from Irish Ferries, which was cut from their pdf (the font change is a bit of a giveaway), pretty much telling me in polite terms to PFO.

What that means in short is the following;

they're attempting to skimp on staff training and thus have no actual procedures in place to deal with any sort of scenario involving a weapon, or anything that could be construed as one.

To be frank, I'd be more concerned about that last bit then whether or not airsofters could use Irish Ferries to travel across the water ...

Fallschirmjager

Lemming wrote:

What that means in short is the following;

they're attempting to skimp on staff training and thus have no actual procedures in place to deal with any sort of scenario involving a weapon, or anything that could be construed as one.

To be frank, I'd be more concerned about that last bit then whether or not airsofters could use Irish Ferries to travel across the water ...

Lemming i got this

Guns, firearms & weapons, any object capable or appearing capable of discharging a project or causing injury are not allowed on any Irish Ferries vessel.



Thank you for taking the time and trouble to contact us. If you have any further enquiries please do not hesitate to contact me again.
...

i have asked if any other company will do it (i want them to realise they have just lost a customer, and they did say dont hesitate to contact them again!), and i have replied saying aer lingus will also accept airsoft...so lets see what they reply, if at all.

Lemming

Fallschirmjager wrote:

i have asked if any other company will do it (i want them to realise they have just lost a customer, and they did say dont hesitate to contact them again!), and i have replied saying aer lingus will also accept airsoft...so lets see what they reply, if at all.

Well, looks like the staff member hasn't a clue what they're doing.

But in any case, both P&O and Stena Line have policies although I'll ring them to get clarification and post back.

Fallschirmjager

Lemming wrote:

Well, looks like the staff member hasn't a clue what they're doing.

But in any case, both P&O and Stena Line have policies although I'll ring them to get clarification and post back.

i had asked them stating i would be travelling to the Uk for an event, and that i would be bringing aegs. i didnt state what airsoft was or what an aeg was. i sent it on the 21st. now to be fair to them, i am assuming they didnt know what airsoft is and what an aeg is...so they would have had to check that out.

Lemming

If they had to go check it out, they probably didn't, beyond going "f00k!!!! jaysus de can't b doin dat!!" upon the first sight of a picture.

Fallschirmjager wrote:

i have asked if any other company will do it (i want them to realise they have just lost a customer, and they did say dont hesitate to contact them again!), and i have replied saying aer lingus will also accept airsoft...so lets see what they reply, if at all.

just reading that again, I'd be inclined to mention not one competitor, but a lot so they see that they really are billy-no-mates where this is concerned.

Hivemind187

Lemming wrote:

If they had to go check it out, they probably didn't, beyond going "f00k!!!! jaysus de can't b doin dat!!" upon the first sight of a picture.

just reading that again, I'd be inclined to mention not one competitor, but a lot so they see that they really are billy-no-mates where this is concerned.

Hmm, this is starting to interest me.

(Billy-no-mates classic !!!)

gandalf

Lads why did you send the email to the monkeys. Something like this you send to the organ grinder and that will ensure you normally get a considered response rather than the cut & paste insult you received.

I suggest you send an email to Eamonn Rothwell the CEO of ICG or Tony Kelly the Marketing Director and you will probably get a response where they actually have read what you sent. (I got these guys details of the ICG website which is linked to the Irish Ferries site). Their email format seems to be firstname.lastname@icg.ie. You should get something more useful from there.

ambro25

Yup, been reading this thread every now and then, but now defo of interest as I'm thinking of picking up a 2nd-hander from Arnies in the UK (get it delivered to in-laws) in late October, which I would be bringing back via ferry, so...

sidneyreilly

FYI. Got this reply re: firearms:

"Unfortunately we no longer allow any type of firearms to be transported on any of our routes. I have forwarded your comments to the Health and Safety Manager for his information.



Thank you for taking the time and trouble to contact us. If you have any further enquiries please do not hesitate to contact me again.



Thanks and Regards"

odonnell

and does an AEG constitute a 'Firearm' under UK law?

sidneyreilly

odonnell wrote:

and does an AEG constitute a 'Firearm' under UK law?

no, at least I dont think so. The reply I recieved was a small bit better then that which Fallschirmjager recieved which leads me to believe they havnt really got a clue what he was refering to. Archers recieved similar, no projectile firing devices or projectiles of any kind allowed. This will technically also cover sucker dart toys etc.:( I should point out that a lot of firearms owners travel by ferry to competitions and game shoots. They will loose out but they dont seem pushed.

odonnell

Well thats the heart of the whole thing really. Clarification is required on a couple of fronts here. If they wish to play the "no firearms" card then they have to show that an AEG is classed as a firearm under the law of the destination country, since it isnt in Eire. If they wish to go with the "no projectile or anything capable, or that looks capable of firing a projectile" option, then they have to elaborate for us. How do professional sports people travel with their goods? Do they require pre-written exemption? If so, can we receive this exemption since we are trying to transport a sporting good which is NOT lethal?

Its all a gray area and it needs sorting. What it DOESNT need is some 18 year old desk clerk sending out cut&paste emails which offer absolutely no elaboration, especially when we run the risk of arrest at check-in.

Hivemind187

if enough people send something like this (see below) then is it likely it will be brought to the attention of the mucky-mucks. Its step one in the "How-to-irritate-your-way-to-success" manual.

To Management Irish Ferries,


I will be taking a trip to the continent soon to take part in a sporting event and I wish to clarify the position of Irish Ferries in regards to sub-1 joule Airsoft equipment.

As you can imagine the transport of equipment can be difficult and awkward by hand and though the majority of them are happy to facilitate me, I would prefer to use my own van/car/truck rather than rely on the public transport of my destination country.

Can you clarify the position your company takes on such sporting equipment when it is properly secured and declared prior to boarding? Can you outline the requirements you have in regard to this matter?

Thank you in advance.

Yours sincerely,
balh blah blah


Adapt as required.

Edit: As a footnote, you could mention that you are trying to find a safe and helpful way to transport your equipment in todays security climate - if the press ever ask questions we come out smelling of roses and they come off looking like a mob of profits-before-safety types.

2nd Edit: This is my OPINION and does not reflect the IAA stand point (I'm entitled to be a civilian from time to time )

odonnell

yeah i reckon thats the way forward mate. after they come back and depending on what they say to that then we can move forward from there. ive a funny feeling we will get hit with the old chestnut "no firearms" at which point we need to step back, go and clarify with whomever it is in charge of this classification, and then go from there.

Lemming

Off the phone with both Stena Line and P&0

Summary: Stena Line

Give them advance notice, and declare upon presenting yourself. If you're a foot passenger, your equipment will be taken off you for storage and handed back once arrived.

They came across as being both reasonable and sensible.


Summary: P&0

Give them advance notice and deeclare upon presenting yourself. No foot passengers with weapons allowed, which is I suppose fair enough as we'd travelling by car/mini-bus/coach in all probability.

Again, they came across as being reasonable and sensible.



So, Irish Ferries can go fvck themselves in my opinion.

Fallschirmjager

well the kind lady in irish ferries has replied and i quote


'This is an Irish Ferries Regulation and not a shipping regulation'

so it looks like irish ferries is deciding on its own.


edit...As usual Lemming has let rip with his .20gram rounds !!! looks like we have our answer....

Boston

Lemming wrote:

So, Irish Ferries can go fvck themselves in my opinion.

QFT

Victor

How about asking them something along the lines of "I'm going on a kayaking trip and I saw your rules on sports gear, can you inform me if its OK to carry a kayak and oars on my roof rack"?

(B) Blunt instruments, any blunt instrument capable of causing injury including:
...
Kayak and Canoe paddles

Of course it is really badly written.

Tradesman's tools that have the potential to be used as a pointed or edged weapon e.g. drill and drill bits, box cutters, utility knives, all saws, crowbars, hammers, spanners, blow torches, however, screwdrivers, wrenches, pliers and other tools.

Sparks

Just in case anyone in any of the three camps hadn't heard about the other two...

Thread in Shooting
Thread in Archery
Thread in Airsoft/Paintball

Hivemind187

Lemming wrote:

So, Irish Ferries can go fvck themselves in my opinion.

Too right, nice one Lemming, a man to be reckonned with there.

kdouglas

looks like p&o and stena line will be getting our custom from now on then....

odonnell

excellent thanks for checking that out lad - its them i travel with anyway. operation airsoftscotland is still on

Lemming

odonnell wrote:

excellent thanks for checking that out lad - its them i travel with anyway. operation airsoftscotland is still on

Aye, P&0 from Larne to Cairnryan (I'm very familiar with that route - can even remember when it used to be Townsend Thorenson and not P&0), and Stena Line from Larne to Stranraer

odonnell

I really wish theyd do a shorter route. Im from Glasgow so its a swine having to drive up to Belfast, ferry over to Stranraer, then drive up from there. Theyd save me no end of hassle if theyd just stick the Troon route on outwith the summer months.

ED E

eh, leave it in your boot!

odonnell

that was at the start of the convo bullet mate.... problem is - with Stena and P&O, you can never be sure you wont get asked to open your boot at weigh in. Ive seen it happen, and Ive had my boot opened before. All this fuss is to protect us incase we have our boots opened!