Comp science Trinty, UCD or ...

Xhristy

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Nehpets

I'm starting CS in october in Trinity and hope it will be good! I had to make this decision too.

The length of the courses are the same, 4 years.

CS UCD:
* Options to do CS as an Arts degree BA[DN050] or a BSc [DN030].
* Under the faculty of science
* Lower points, higher level maths not needed
* Use http://www.ucd.ie/horizons/course_search.html to see what the course topics would be.
* You get to take electives from the horizons programme. I think it's two electives each year but not totally sure.

CS TCD:
* Only one course available BA(Mod)
* Under the faculty of engineering
* Accredited by the IEI
* https://www.cs.tcd.ie/courses/ba/ is the course website. It has some good information.
* Can spend third year studying abroad if you want.
* Student does a Broad Curriculum subject in the second year. It can be a language or can be another subject from a "wide range of topics". I can't find the list right now. It changes I think?
* Slightly higher points than UCD (355 this year). Higher level C3 required.

Obviously, I don't have any experience of either course but this is what I found out when I was deciding so hope it's some use to you! My decision also factored in location, TCD is one bus away from my house whereas UCD is two buses. Over 4 years, I guess 2 buses would get fustrating.

Creamy Goodness

you're obviously going to get a skewed view here as this is a trinity board.

probably best to ask in all college boards that do computer science and make your own mind up from that information gathered from this or post in the college work forum. you'd be surprised (not really ) how many people on boards that are studying CS, i'm a DIT man myself.

Nehpets

Cremo wrote:

you're obviously going to get a skewed view here as this is a trinity board.

probably best to ask in all college boards that do computer science and make your own mind up from that information gathered from this or post in the college work forum. you'd be surprised (not really ) how many people on boards that are studying CS, i'm a DIT man myself.

I don't think my view wass skewed at all, obviously since i haven't started but I gave him information about both colleges which should be helpful to him.

On an unrelated note, did you help out at DITs open day last year?

Nehpets

Nehpets wrote:

I don't think my view wass skewed at all, obviously since i haven't started but I gave him information about both colleges which should be helpful to him.

I think he was commenting more on asking a question about other colleges in this college's forum, and not referring to any response in particular. It'd be like asking Fianna Fáil whether Labour were the better party to join

Xhristy

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low

I flirted momentarily with the idea of doing computer science in college a few years ago and what I remember from then (which might be dated now) is that there seems to be 3 main places to do computer science as a degree in Ireland, TCD, UL (Computer systems) and DCU (Computer Applications). Each of their universities have their own merits as do their individual courses. Carlow It do a good course in software development etc. too. It was my impression that the Computer Science offered in Maynooth and UCD was a bit wishy-washy and was more an arts degree with CS as a subject. Obviously this has an advantage as you get a broader more general education but the trade-off is indepth knowledge of particular things. Having said that all the people I've talked to who went into careers in IT who did CS at college really had to build on what they did in college, sometimes learning on the job completely different programming languages etc. so the exact content of your course isn't really all that important.

Crash

Hey Xhristy, i'll give a longer reply later on when I get a chance, but for the mo one brief thing.

The CS course is a lot less centred on practical CS knowledge, and much more around giving you the skills to theoretically pick up any language etc.

As low said there about "sometimes learning on the job completely different programming languages" etc. - in CS in trinity there are roughly 10-12 different languages taught, from low level to high level and everything in between. This is probably the biggest bonus to the course, in my eyes. at this stage I can pick up pretty much any language thats thrown at me.

For instance, current job i'm working in I had to learn perl for. then turned out php would be better suited, so picked up a practical use of PHP (enough to get by in a couple of days) and a reasonably functional use thereof now.
This can then lead to other languages such as python etc.

I'm going into my final year in CS, so if you want I can give you a fairly frank rundown of the courses over the year? as i'm sure a couple of the other lads from the years below can on here too.

Xhristy

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Creamy Goodness

Nephets, Myth got what i was trying to say, wasn't saying your view was skewed at all.

and no i didn't help out at that open day, might do it this year though as they were well paid

Nehpets

Crash, since you're going into your final year of CS, what's your opinion on having a laptop for the course? Is it recommended/convinient and do most people have one?

cianclarke

I'm just finished first year CS in TCD, and I have a pretty high opinion of the place.
Just some points which TCD has above UCD / DCU, because I'm afraid that's all I'm in a position to comment on. Take this as somewhat biased advice:

-DCU's Computer Applications course has one of the / the highest dropout rate in the country, not because it's an incredibly difficult course but moreso the points are so low, everybody thinks "Hmm didn't get the points for XYZ, how about computers".
-TCD was chosen above the other top universities (UL, UCD, DCU) to host Intel's dual core program, which I think is teaching us in dual core technologies and (possibly) the assembly that goes with it.
-From what I've seen TCD is probably the highest regarded CS course in the country, probably alongside CA in DCU, and UL is up there too.
UCD however is nowhere near.


If you want a rundown of first year courses let me know and I'll do so.

tolosenc

Nehpets wrote:

Only one course available BA(Mod)

Not entirely true.

You could do CSLL - Computer Science, Linguistics and a Language(French/Irish/ German)

Nehpets

Oh yeah, oops

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI

Nehpets wrote:

Crash, since you're going into your final year of CS, what's your opinion on having a laptop for the course? Is it recommended/convinient and do most people have one?

On the laptops in classes issue...it's a thorny one..well..from an objective standpoit it's not so much thorny as complicated..I'll try and give you some ideas from my own experience here (I'm a rising Junior Sophister in Computer Science (B.A. Mod.) and started using a laptop at the start of Hilary Term in my Junior Freshman Year)

Kenneth Dawson-Howe (the CS course-director) complained at one stage about the people using laptops during a state of the art presentation, and stated an intent to have their usage banned during lectures. Specifically his complaint was that people were using laptops for things not directly relating to the presentation, i.e. using them for anything other than taking notes, using them for "looking at websites, checking e-mails"

Personally I think this attitude is somewhat misguided, and there are lots of legitimate usages for using applications during lectures, for example in Maths while covering the Newton-Rhapson method I was able to code up a quick program that would calculate the square root of 2, this allowed me to see how limits converged with different values, and gave me a strong grasp of how the algorithm worked. Similarly using a graphing program allowed me to get a 'feel' for functions and series, and this helped my understanding in the subject greatly. The benefits of writing quick programs is even more obvious for programming or more directly computer science related subjects, and looking up a wikipedia article in class, par example, is of obvious benefit if you're not understanding a concept as expressed through a lecturers viewpoint. I think therefore it would be incorrect to decry this kind of usage, and indeed it reminds me of that secondary school attitude where one might get in trouble for reading ahead in a book or working on some problems when you should be "listening" to a teacher going at half the speed you can work out. (Indeed, I, and others, think that the teaching of some subjects in Computer Science are taught at a highly retarded and frankly stifling rate early on in the years, and it can be hard to maintain interest).

As for people people messing around on IRC or reading e-mails, posting on forums, really, I don't have any problem with this, it's not distracting anymore than legitimate note-taking. As for people looking at pictures, movies, playing games, this I think IS heavily distracting and people like that should go right down the back of the class or not attend in the first place so as not to distract people that are there to learn.

For note-taking, personally I tried it on a laptop and I much MUCH prefer taking note-taking with good old pen and paper, and I'll be reverting back to this once the new term starts. I'm sure some people find it easier with a computer, and I have no experience with LaTeX which might make the task easier. Really you won't know until you start which you find better, but I don't think you'll find yourself at a significant disadvantage if you consign the laptop to home or locker.

Personally in a lecture environment I find my laptop a distraction to myself, and the temptation to give up concentration and chat/use a forum is often too much. I probably won't be opening up my laptop in class unless I see a very compelling reason to do so.

As another point...the click-clacking of many people typing on laptops can be distracting (especially in computer science where laptop users make a near majority, for other courses I don't know what the situation is). Personally I always try and type a bit quietly when using a laptop, but this will slow you down if you're a fast typer. (I'm not)

Outside classes, obviously a lot of assignments will need to be done on a computer (obviously.) There's a Computer Science laboratory provided for usage (LG12), which has a plethora of computers (the decline in class sizes means it's easier and easier to find one, even at crunch-times, but you won't always be guaranteed to find one) however the computers are slow to start up (and sticky/greasy a lot of the time). There are Windows XP machines and Ubuntu machines and Sun machines provided (this information was true as of 2006/7, the computers were apparently upgraded over the summer, I don't know what the situation is now). Personally I preferred using my own machine most of the time, as it what I was comfortable with, didn't need to spend an hour logging in, and I didn't feel like I needed to wash my hands after using the lab keyboards. It also makes things easier working on assignments from home, when it never changes computer.

If you ever get stuck for a computer there are also the ICT prefabs, they're great when you need somewhere quiet to work too

You should also be aware that the reception for the wireless internet in the LG12 is pretty poor.

So that's pretty much everything I can think about regarding using laptops, if there's anything I've missed out or doesn't make sense, then say so Hope this information was helpful.

Personally I think laptops can be a very beneficial aid, especially in a course like Computer Science...even if they almost led to me failing Senior Freshman year

bumblebeeman

Just a quick note about which university you may like to go to.

I've just finished Computer Applications in DCU, going on to do a masters in TCD. I've read some of the previous points and there are some slight inaccuracies which I would like to contest. Computer Applications has a massive drop out rate yes, but it had that long before the 300 points floor was introduced. The mass cull tends to take place from failing summer exams/repeats. DCU probably has the best computing facilities of any Irish University (although thats based on largely anecdotal evidence regarding other colleges - for instance nearly 300 computers for CA students alone, in labs with concrete walls :-p), and the course is very industry focused with a 6 month work placement in 3rd year, which at the end of the day, is very important unless you plan to work as an academic.

There is a broad and (mostly) relevant syllabus, and in 4th year there is a interesting selection of subjects to choose from (compiler construction, cryptography, real time embedded systems) The one area that lets the course down a bit is the networking side of things. However, that didnt bother me too much.


With relation to the regard the course is held in, I have worked in PriceWaterhouseCoopers and Axa and the senior management have personally told me how great they think the course is . Also, a few people who I knew before I started the course have gone on to be very successful (one is working in Seattle developing Microsoft Office, sold a debugger to Oracle for 100k + and had a superb job in Symantec). Obviously, what you put in is what you'll get out, and there are plenty who will just scrape through exams and come out with a pass degree, but if you are enthusiastic about the course, put in the hours (LOTS of hours required in 3rd and 4th year) and have an interest outside of the coursework alone you will do well.


Hope this help

cianclarke

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI wrote:

There's a Computer Science laboratory provided for usage (LG12), which has a plethora of computers (the decline in class sizes means it's easier and easier to find one, even at crunch-times, but you won't always be guaranteed to find one) however the computers are slow to start up (and sticky/greasy a lot of the time). There are Windows XP machines and Ubuntu machines and Sun machines provided (this information was true as of 2006/7, the computers were apparently upgraded over the summer, I don't know what the situation is now).

Personally I think laptops can be a very beneficial aid, especially in a course like Computer Science...even if they almost led to me failing Senior Freshman year

All of the Dell PC's have been upgraded now so that they all have huge monitors (widescreen, not sure of dimensions but bigger than 17"), core 2 duos and are running XP and Debian, very nicely at that. Huge improvement over edubuntu.

And laptop use in lectures - I used mine all last year (JF), although it certainly wasn't a majority. All my notes were taken on laptop as I type very quickly and my handwriting is terrible.
I will most definately continue to take notes on laptops, and I'm finding it interesting that KDH wants to ban laptop use, I'd imagine he wouldn't get away with that - especially in CS, of all courses!

Regards use - note taking, yes. Less legitimate uses? Very much so, it was a huge distraction and the temptation was there to do other stuff, I ended up designing web sites through lectures, responding to emails, all sorts. Shouldn't have, wouldn't advise it, but hey...

Nehpets

Thanks for the info guys

Crash

Cian - it wouldnt happen - lets just say that.

Xhristy

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Time Magazine

1:0

Xhristy

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Time Magazine

Nah, I come from the land of bountiful women so I'm only teasing.

Frequency of girls in your course doesn't matter. If you extend your potential gene pool to A.N. Bird in Redz, you've a much better chance of getting a girly friend. Of course it helps to have girls in your class, but not by much. Being in a male-dominated course like CS just gives you extra potential to meet mates to go on the score with for BESS girls.

Xhristy

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Crash

From a comp sci student point of view as opposed to BESS eejit here, it varies wildly Xhristy.

At the mo in my year (i'm going into my final year) we have about 7 girls in our year, out of 28 or so - not too bad.

the year below mine - 0 women. none. that years gonna go gay in no time


so it all depends

low

going out with a girl in such a small class is only asking for trouble anyway.

Crash

Oi, i question that :P my girlfriends in the same year as me

Xhristy

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DemonOfTheFall

Probably about 5:1 in the rising Senior Freshman class...

I remember hearing that Engineering & System Sciences was 75% male a few years ago, with MSISS being 50:50, so take from that what you will!

low

Xhristy wrote:

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like hand jobs down the back of the class underneath the desk? Isn't that what happens in co-ed secondary schools? Pity there's no proper desks in college lecture theatres.

Xhristy

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conzy

Lots of good info here

I want to do Comp Science next year and Trinity is my #1 choice at the minute..

Any other general info about the course?

What do people plan to do afterwards? software dev? games dev?

The more info the merrier!

Thanks

cianclarke

D'know about you guys, I'm hoping to have a big ass desk in my own office with a lovely leather chair and a CLS company car earning 70K+ a year.

In reality? Probably a grey cubicle in some basement like the IT crowd acting as support for a few years to get experience...


Other general info about the course?
For incoming freshers... Hm, almost all the lectures are in the basement of the Lloyd Building, which has great wireless. 1BA6 (compuers and society) is a fun course, and 1ba4 (digital logic design) seems pretty awful all year and then you get your exam result and go "Oh... Sweet!"

We have some amazing computer facilities if you don't have a laptop, LG12 is decked out with core 2 duos and wide-ass screens.

Interesting trivia, this years 3rd year (JS) are a bunch of mac-heads.
Depending on your year, you'll end up having everybody try to convert you to (a) linux or (b) mac.
Don't listen to (b).

If you live in trinity halls, chances are your flat will turn into an IT helpdesk, ours did.

I'll think of more later...

conzy

hehe Thanks

Macs make me sad...

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI

conzymaher wrote:

hehe Thanks

Macs make me sad...

...

conzy

I've found a mac user!

Nehpets

quick! get him!

conzy

nah they're ok i spose....

Nice Laptops, but i would rather accommodation than a 2500 euro laptop....

Mark200

I'm also just starting 6th year, and also thinking of doing CS in Trinity. My dad, who works in the computer industry, says that many companies tend to choose people who have just come from DCU over other colleges, however imo that shouldn't affect your decision as there's many companies who are always looking for Irish graduates, no matter what college they come from.
I'm keen on Trinity because it's just a 15 minute train journey away, and DCU is a nightmare to get to as there's only one bus (the 105) the goes from here to there, and it only runs in the morning and afternoon. So if I ever finish early I could be hanging around all day just to get the bus home!