BMW 320D Sport vs Lexus IS220 Sport

v10

Both Diesels, and assuming both have Metallic and Leather the BMW is almost £6000 more expensive at €58500.

Opinions Please.

v10

CarLover

BMW - not least because I've heard the Leux diesel is a little agricultural and not all that great to drive.
I'd guess residuals on BMW will be better too...

maidhc

The Lexus looks more interesting than the BMW. Can't imagine it will loose a whole pile more value either. And there is nothing wrong with agriculture!

Moanin

I drove the lexus and must say it was a little underpowered for a 2.2 turbo diesel and the I found that the gears were very close together and you could easily mistake 3rd for 5th.The rear headroom is very poor, but it is well loaded with gadgets- leather, climate,etc etc.It also look s a lot like the new corolla so for me it has to be the bmw

copacetic

bmw, the lexus generally comes last out of any group test of the bmw, merc, audi and lexus rivals.

commited

BMW every time!

Seth Brundle

http://www.autospies.com/news/Video-Great-comparison-of-the-Lexus-IS220d-and-BMW-320d-5372/

DublinWriter

I have a 320D and it's got more poke than a very pokey thing.

You'd also be mad to buy one new as the depreication is savage in the first two years of ownership.

unkel

DublinWriter wrote:

You'd also be mad to buy one new as the depreication is savage in the first two years of ownership.

A BMW 320d is one of the slowest depreciating cars one can buy, so quite the opposite is true - they are overpriced second hand

But that's in relative terms. In absolute terms it will depreciate a 5 figure sum per year. That's a lot of money

Lex Luthor

of the 2, the BMW, but its one butt fugly car

v10

copacetic wrote:

bmw, the lexus generally comes last out of any group test of the bmw, merc, audi and lexus rivals.

I never understood why Audi is even included in that group, I'd put an A4 in a group that consisted of mondeo, avensis, 407, laguna and the likes ... bmw, merc, and lexus and in a different class in my opinion.

Anyway, the general opinion here seems to be the bmw but I find it hard to justify the extra €6000 especially when you consider the extras included on the Lexus that cost mega €€ on the Bmw.

i.e.
6 Disc CD Changer BMW: €590 Lexus: Standard
Electric Fold Mirrors BMW: €330 Lexus: Standard
Electric Fronts Seats with Memory BMW €1790 Lexus: Standard
Auto Dim Interior & Exterior Mirrors BMW: €355 Lexus: Standard
Adaptive Headlights BMW: €1990 Lexus: Standard
ISOFIX for Child Seats BMW: €130 Lexus: Standard
Xenon Headlights BMW: €1260 Lexus: Standard
Park Distance Control (for front) BMW: €575 Lexus: Standard
Headlamp Washer System BMW: €375 Lexus: Standard

Thats €7395 to spec the BMW up to match the Lexus .. add on the €6000 extra that the car costs and theres over €13000 in the difference for the same spec ..

The BMW is not anyway near €13000 better a car, I'm not sure its even worth the €6000 more.

galwaytt

v10 wrote:

Thats €7395 to spec the BMW up to match the Lexus .. add on the €6000 extra that the car costs and theres over €13000 in the difference for the same spec ..

The BMW is not anyway near €13000 better a car, I'm not sure its even worth the €6000 more.

I think you've just answered your own question.

Even at that, the next question is: are you still happy to lose a 5-figure sum inside two years - on any car?

Personally, the 320d is overpriced, under-specc'd, and looks just too like a 318 to even make you feel happy you spent that much money on it. A secondhand Porsche would be a better idea......

JHMEG

If it had to be one or the other then it would be the Lexus. For a number of reasons: there are sooo many 3-series around; the Lexus is much better equipped; it's probably better built, and is probably more reliable. The 3-series says "follow the crowd"; the Lexus says "independent thinker".

maidhc

JHMEG wrote:

If it had to be one or the other then it would be the Lexus. For a number of reasons: there are sooo many 3-series around; the Lexus is much better equipped; it's probably better built, and is probably more reliable. The 3-series says "follow the crowd"; the Lexus says "independent thinker".

I'd agree.

For that money though... is there anything else around:

X-Type: Long in the tooth etc etc (good value in basic spec maybe)
A4: As above, also a bit dull, FWD, glorified Octavia
Accord: Not really in the same segment, less prestige, probably will depreciate more if loaded with gadgets etc.
Merc C-Class: New one might be worth a look?

If I bought a car like that though, I would be keeping it until it was about 10 years old.

JHMEG

maidhc wrote:

I'd agree.

Holy shmoly. Maidhc is agrees with me! :eek:

Jag, yeah that's a bit different alright, tho maybe not such a safe bet in this country.

C-class.. no. God no. A 2nd hand S-class would be sooo much nicer.

unkel

JHMEG wrote:

C-class.. no. God no.

I would have said that a year ago. But things change. The W204 is an excellent car by all means. And then there is Brabus slotting in a 6.3 biturbo V12 with an unreal 1300+ NM engine :eek:

copacetic

v10 wrote:

I never understood why Audi is even included in that group, I'd put an A4 in a group that consisted of mondeo, avensis, 407, laguna and the likes ... bmw, merc, and lexus and in a different class in my opinion.

as I said you would be wrong, it's consistently come at worst second to the BMW in every magazine review worldwide including the lexus and merc, until the new c class came out a few months ago and it now tends to come level with the c class ot just behind it. The interior of the audi is much nicer and better put together than any of them and it drives better than the merc and the lexus, even being much older than them all.

I've no doubt the new one will be competing for top spot in the class with the 3 series, it's bigger, the interior is much nicer, it looks better and with the 40:60 quattro will likely drive better.

v10

copacetic wrote:

I've no doubt the new one will be competing for top spot in the class with the 3 series, it's bigger, the interior is much nicer, it looks better and with the 40:60 quattro will likely drive better.

Is the picture of a new one ? Whats changed on the outside ? the headlights & bumbers ?



That simply does nothing for me. Fair enough whatever you're in to but it wouldn't be my choice.

copacetic

well looks are subjective of course, I don't know how anyone could conside the bmw or lexus based on looks. the new merc or the audi are much better looking.

However saying the audi isn't in the same class as the other 3 is total BS imo, and the entire worlds motoring press would agree with me. Not that they are generally altogether reliable..


edit: sorry missed your edit, I guess if you aren't used to audi maybe you couldn't tell the difference, it looks nothing like the other one to me. The overhangs are way shorter, roof profile much more swept, all profiles changed and all panels are different if all changes are subtle enough.

This comparison showing the overhangs is rough but gives you the idea B8 v B7:

bazz26

Hardly a radical departure imo. Your average Joe Public will probably not see much difference between new and old A4 either

Also I wonder will the new A4 still have manual rear windows and the option of a 1.6 litre 8 valve engine like the current model?

dcr22B

bazz26 wrote:

Also I wonder will the new A4 still have manual rear windows and the option of a 1.6 litre 8 valve engine like the current model?

In last week's Irish Times motoring supplement, they said that the base model would cost €39,000 and I think it was a 2.0 FSi or TFSi.

maidhc

dcr22B wrote:

In last week's Irish Times motoring supplement, they said that the base model would cost €39,000 and I think it was a 2.0 FSi or TFSi.

The base 1.6 was £19k not too long ago. Audi have lost the run of themselves!

copacetic

dcr22B wrote:

In last week's Irish Times motoring supplement, they said that the base model would cost €39,000 and I think it was a 2.0 FSi or TFSi.

It's a 1.8TFSI, I don't think the price is confirmed yet, they just went by what the last model with 1.8TFSI was.


@bazz
I certainly didn't say it was a 'radical departure' just that imo it is very noticeably different from the current one.

E92

copacetic wrote:

I certainly didn't say it was a 'radical departure' just that imo it is very noticeably different from the current one.

The B8 A4 looks exactly the same as the B7. If they didn't change the door handle design, which by the way has been copied from the 'inferior' Skodas, Seats, VWs:eek: it might as well have been the B7 looks wise.IMO, of course.

It would be highly embarassing for Audi surley if they puty in an older engine design than the one in the current Passat. I'm talking about the 1.6 engine of course. I'd say they will offer the 1.4 TFSi with 122 bhp in time here though.

bazz26

copacetic wrote:

@bazz
I certainly didn't say it was a 'radical departure' just that imo it is very noticeably different from the current one.

Wasn't directing my comments at you personally. Just thought it looks evolutionery rather than revolutionery to most people. Obviously a trained eye would spot the differences outright as you did.

Regarding entry engine size, I would guess that the 1.8 FSi would be the smallest capacity as afaik VAG are phasing out the 1.6 FSi across their entire range. Could not see a 1.4 TFSi being fitted to the A4 to be honest, could possibly start clashing with high end Passat sales.

CarLover

JHMEG wrote:

If it had to be one or the other then it would be the Lexus. For a number of reasons: there are sooo many 3-series around; the Lexus is much better equipped; it's probably better built, and is probably more reliable. The 3-series says "follow the crowd"; the Lexus says "independent thinker".

Does it? Why? Lexus (Toyota) are arguably the biggest car manufacturer in the world. Hardly much of a statement driving a Lexus then is it?
If I was in the hatchback market I'd buy a Ford Focus Zetec as I know it's the best in its class. I might buy a Mazda 3 if I really liked it...but I wouldn't buy it cos there's less of them on the road. Silly reason to buy a car.

BMW 3 series saloon is not that pretty but it gets better reviews )from what Ive read) than the Lexus...which has been criticised for driving characteristics and its engine.
Reliability...will have to wait and see. New Lexus may not be as reliable as old one (if it follows the same pattern as newer Toyotas).

copacetic

bazz26 wrote:

Wasn't directing my comments at you personally. Just thought it looks evolutionery rather than revolutionery to most people. Obviously a trained eye would spot the differences outright as you did.

Regarding entry engine size, I would guess that the 1.8 FSi would be the smallest capacity as afaik VAG are phasing out the 1.6 FSi across their entire range. Could not see a 1.4 TFSi being fitted to the A4 to be honest, could possibly start clashing with high end Passat sales.

well certainly the 1.8TFSI is the smallest engine everywhere else. Whether we may get a smaller one to compete with the 316 I couldn't say..

endplate

Sooo back OT. What about the Alfa 159 about 15 grand less than the BMW and it's in the same league car wise as far as Alfa are concerned. Much better looking too inside and out IMO. Car will depreciate quite a bit sadly but the OP did say he didn't want to be following the sheep BMW wise

Heres a nice example

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=606617

JHMEG

CarLover wrote:

Does it? Why? Lexus (Toyota) are arguably the biggest car manufacturer in the world. Hardly much of a statement driving a Lexus then is it?

Toyota is the biggest but the Lexus has the credentials to be a luxury car regardless of who makes it. In this country there are far more 3-series on the roads than ISes.

CarLover wrote:

buy it cos there's less of them on the road. Silly reason to buy a car.

I like to buy good cars that are rare on the roads (my Accord Coupe is a case in point: I believe there are only 3 in the country). I wouldn't buy a car just because everyone else did. For me that's more of a reason not to buy.

CarLover wrote:

New Lexus may not be as reliable as old one (if it follows the same pattern as newer Toyotas).

Unlikely. Toyota don't hold back when it comes to quality with Lexus.