What guns to start with? (another one...)

thehomeofDob

Hey Guys,
I've been lurking round here since last August, finally decided to jump on the band waggon and pick up a few pieces. I've very little idea of what to get though. With college, and work, I won't be skirmishing for quite a while, so I want to get something just for plinking with out the back, and down at my granddad's farm. There's not so much room out the back, and acres down at the farm, so I'm leaning towards a GBB pistol, and a springer sniper.

I've been looking at the VSR 10 G-Spec, as it seems pretty popular, what scope should I get with it? Or are there any other alternatives? Bare in mind I'll be picking these up from BFSL over the next few days, so I'm limited to what they stock.

For the pistol, I like the looks of the M9 IA, (product 12632 on BFSL), any recommendations?

What else would I need to pick up? Gas, BB's, Targets.

Finally, anyone who's been up to BFSL, is there somewhere I can lock a bike up? I'm gonna cycle up tomorrow if they're open to take a look around. Thanks for your help guys.

Fallschirmjager

nothing feels quite like aeg on full auto...not trying to put you off the sniper rifle, but you get close to god when firing on full auto.

there is a load of stickies above yo should read on the whole gbb thingy.

also when you say bike...you do know these things come in fairly large boxes...might not be bike friendly...come to think of it quite a few have a pictre of a big scary gun on the front!!! (WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN !!!) so screaming down the m50 with a large box and a big picture of a gun, might draw some attention...

thehomeofDob

I meant a bicycle I'll just be taking a look, I live local, I'll have someone drive me up when I make a purchase. As far as an AEG goes, I want to get the Thompson from Eirsoft as well, forgot to mention that in my previous post.

bullets

thehomeofDob wrote:

I meant a bicycle I'll just be taking a look, I live local, I'll have someone drive me up when I make a purchase. As far as an AEG goes, I want to get the Thompson from Eirsoft as well, forgot to mention that in my previous post.

Bit like myself then. I don't drive so only have a bicycle,
kinda limits my options when traveling but I have cycled home
with a full sized AEG box slung under my arm on my bike!!!

The Thompson I had no interest in at all at all but now that people
here are talking about it and there is talk bout looking out for drum
mags and real wood its becoming more appealing. Had a replica as a kid
which I think was robbed from some arcade stall someplace and got sold
to me by a local scumbag at the time with no questions asked as to the
point of origin. I gave it away when I was 16 which I regretted.

~B

thehomeofDob

I live quite near Blanch shopping centre, so either a taxi, or a lift from one of my makers will be doable. I like the thompson, I've always liked the look, so I'll probably get the wood conversion, and hang it on the wall when not in use I prefer the WWII look to the mafia look though.

As far as the VSR 10, should I even bother with a scope, and just pick up the real shock version? I think I'd rather the scope, but I've no idea which to get, nor how I'd go about zeroing it. I know someone here, I think SCOPE had a full auto M9, but I don't see it listed on any Irish sites, and those are my only options.

[--SC(+)PE--]

Its not an irish site but they are very reliable. Ya can get the full auto M9 here http://cgi.ebay.com/HFC-METAL-BERETTA-M190-Fully-Semi-Airsoft-GBB-M9-Pistol_W0QQitemZ270163856577QQihZ017QQcategoryZ31685QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
ive got two and they are simply awesome pistols.In saying that i would reccommend a clone aeg 1st as ya will get more use out of one the price would be about the same.

thehomeofDob

[--SC(+)PE--] wrote:

Its not an irish site but they are very reliable. Ya can get the full auto M9 here http://cgi.ebay.com/HFC-METAL-BERETTA-M190-Fully-Semi-Airsoft-GBB-M9-Pistol_W0QQitemZ270163856577QQihZ017QQcategoryZ31685QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
ive got two and they are simply awesome pistols.In saying that i would reccommend a clone aeg 1st as ya will get more use out of one the price would be about the same.

It's the lack of a credit card that's preventing me from buying off ehobby, I might be able to sort something out with my brother next time I see him, for now though, I'd like to pick something up local. No harm in having two I guess I'll go for something other than the M9, and leave that for when I can order off ehobby, any other recommendations?

[--SC(+)PE--]

Well the kjw m9 Shiva is selling is a great piece aswell. You could try a 3v card if ya wanted to buy of ehobby.

Nalced_irl

bullets wrote:

Bit like myself then. I don't drive so only have a bicycle,
kinda limits my options when traveling but I have cycled home
with a full sized AEG box slung under my arm on my bike!!!

The Thompson I had no interest in at all at all but now that people
here are talking about it and there is talk bout looking out for drum
mags and real wood its becoming more appealing. Had a replica as a kid
which I think was robbed from some arcade stall someplace and got sold
to me by a local scumbag at the time with no questions asked as to the
point of origin. I gave it away when I was 16 which I regretted.

~B

As soon as i get cash the next 2 purchases im gonna make are either an M9 or 1911 and a Thompson. With the Drum mag it would look superb id say and also the wood stock would be great.

thehomeofDob - A good way to get an idea of different kits is to type them into youtube and quite often there is an indepth report on them and a shooting video to see what they are like. I do like the single fire reload of the VSR 10 as i just like pulling back the "whatever you call the reloading thingy", sorry, minds at a blank, but full auto is great. I have the M14 but unfortunately its stuck on full auto but its easy enough to squeeze one shot out anyway on full. I would advise an AEG also tbh but there are a few sniper AEGs around like the M14 so you could have a look into those also.

kdouglas

by "the reloading thingy" i assume you mean cocking handle?

o1s1n

The m14 is not a sniper rifle people! It's what is known as a battle rifle. You also have the FAL, G3 and so on. They have long barrels and accuracy, so can fill a marksman type role. But most of them have full auto fire. The only "true" AEG sniper out there that I know of is the PSG-1.

For a newbie who wants to be a sniper (And believe me, there are a lot of them) The battle rifle would be the best option to go with. You have the accuracy but you can also run into the firefight. (Which you WILL want to do at some point)

thehomeofDob

So any other recommendations on a springer rifle? It's only for plinking, don't need huge rate of fire so an AEG isn't as important. These won't be my only purchases, so I'm not constrained by that fact.

[--SC(+)PE--]

Usr11 or if ya can get a retailer to downgrade a JG Bar10 before having it shipped.

thehomeofDob

Pay Day just arrived, and I got more than I bargained for. A trip to BFSL is definitely in order, and I'll be picking up a 3V card to get the M9.

[--SC(+)PE--]

The Beretta will serve ya well , Wish id some disposable income 2 spend

thehomeofDob

Well, a laptop is gonna take out a big chunk, so I'll probably pick up two, a rifle and the m9, and hope I can live off what's left yay! Thanks guys, will check into BFSL tomorrow and post back with any questions.

chalky

o1s1n wrote:

The m14 is not a sniper rifle people!

The M21 was the US Army's official sniper rifle from 1969 to 1988. It was just a semi auto M14 with a scope.:p

o1s1n

chalky wrote:

The M21 was the US Army's official sniper rifle from 1969 to 1988. It was just a semi auto M14 with a scope.:p

So until people convert their full auto m14 into a semi auto m21, it's still not a sniper rifle

chalky

*switches fire select to single shot*

Done

Fiach Dubh

Actually it's not just an M14 that's semi only, there were other mods to the body that changed the balance of the rifle, fiberglass stock, reworked bolt system, making it more effective for sniping. With an effective range of about 650m I'd consider the M21 to be more a marksmans weapon just scraping it's way into the sniper field, certainly not in the same class as the L96 Accuracy International with it's 800m range or the Dragunov SVD with 1300m range.

chalky

The earlier versions still had a wood stock. And the M21 was still just an accurized M14. But I'm not going to get into an argument about it.

o1s1n

It's all getting very technicality based isn't it?

The term "sniper rifle" is a bit vague anyway. You could slap a scope on most battle rifles and they could fill that role. as they have long barrels and are chambered for larger rounds. Sure how many times have you seen someone in a film using a G3 sg1 as the 'sniper'? They're still battle rifles though.

When it comes to airsoft, I'd reserve "sniper" specifically for bolt actions. The m14 just doesn't cut it in my book!

Fiach Dubh

I suppose in Airsoft terms it all depends on taste. With the 1 joule limit without a licence it's easy for an AEG to get the same range as a bolt action. I suppose the only problem you'd face would be mechbox noise giving you away to often. I know when Liamo's out there he can be plugging away for ages and nobody know's where he is

Rew

Fiach Dubh wrote:

Actually it's not just an M14 that's semi only, there were other mods to the body that changed the balance of the rifle, fiberglass stock, reworked bolt system, making it more effective for sniping. With an effective range of about 650m I'd consider the M21 to be more a marksmans weapon just scraping it's way into the sniper field, certainly not in the same class as the L96 Accuracy International with it's 800m range or the Dragunov SVD with 1300m range.

The AI is the superior of those two and the SVD is only rated for 600m with standard ammo and needs special ammo to go beyond to 1300. Russians deployed it as a designated marksmans rifle not as a sniper rifle.

thehomeofDob

Well I took a trip into BFSL today. Two lads were very helpful! Picked up a Mac11 and a clone Sniper the ASG M50. I've got a problem though, the red dot sight screws on the rail, but the allen key in the box was a hair too small. It completely sheered the nut, so I can't put the sight on. Any idea on how to sort it? I'll post pics up in a bit if need be.

liamo333

A new nut should do it.

thehomeofDob

Where's the best place to get one?

liamo333

Any hardware shop.

thehomeofDob

The guys in BFSL sorted me out They come highly recommened! Will be doing my shopping there from now on. Now, a problem, does anyone with the Mac 11 notice BB's coming out the side hole while on full auto? I've recorded some clips of it empyting the clip start to finish with no break, up to 6 pelets will fly out the side. Anywhere from 1-4 at a time. I'm using Ultrair Power Gas from ASG.

kdouglas

i've heard something about that happening before, cant remember if it was on here or asi/arnies though.... o1s1n has a mac, he might know more about it

cherubaul

that is the M11a1s biggest flaw i just cant resist double feeding. I dont know why it is but I have 2 theories
first is the insane ROF of the gun causes it by "tricking" the magazine
second is the fact that it fires from an open bolt leaves it more susceptable.

BUT this only seems to occur with KSC/KWA magazines and in fact i find that if you were to use HFC mags they seem to solve the problem. Also Mac 11s hate extremes I have 2 of them 1 with a magnesium bolt and one with a plastic. they all hate extremes. also get yourself a short mag for holstering the weaponit saves bumping a long mag and giving away your position or damaging your gun.

o1s1n

BBs are stacked further apart in the HFC mags. The KSC mag issue (I think anyway) is down to them being stacked too close together and using excel or smaller diameter bbs. (as they come out the top of the mag easier)

I used some larger diameter ones at HRTA along with propane and the thing worked a charm.

thehomeofDob

You're speaking greek to me lads . It's a KWA, I dunno what type of bolt, couldn't tell you if it's plastic or magnesium, or which type of clip it is. It's definately the longer, 48 round one, and they seem to be stacked fairly close together. BB's are .20g, again from ASG. It's not a huge problem, but if it's due to the clip, it would be handy to know which one to go for when I pick up spares.

Also, how many rounds would you typically get on one fill up of gas? Or is that gas dependant?

o1s1n

thehomeofDob wrote:

You're speaking greek to me lads . It's a KWA, I dunno what type of bolt, couldn't tell you if it's plastic or magnesium, or which type of clip it is. It's definately the longer, 48 round one, and they seem to be stacked fairly close together. BB's are .20g, again from ASG. It's not a huge problem, but if it's due to the clip, it would be handy to know which one to go for when I pick up spares.

Also, how many rounds would you typically get on one fill up of gas? Or is that gas dependant?

The magnesium bolt is an upgrade as the plastic ones are eventually known to have issues. Especially if you insert the mag without opening the bolt.

Actually

ALWAYS OPEN THE BOLT BEFORE INSERTING THE MAG

Just for anyone who's scanning through this thread...not doing so will eventually break the bolt if it's plastic.

HFC make a brand of mac 11s. They're not actually as good as the KSC/KWA ones. But the bbs in the mags are spaced more so you'll have less bb flying out the ejection port. (So people say. I haven't tried it myself. It makes sense though)

I've had a world of issues with my own Mac. The thing wouldnt fire most of the time.

I'd usually get two mag fulls out of one fill up. But it's really all dependent on the weather. What kind of gas did you say you were using? I've had trouble on everything other than propane.

thehomeofDob

It's Ultrair Power Gas from ASG. Contains C4H10, C3H8. Thanks for the tip about inserting the mag.

o1s1n

Also, while spraying on silicone (Which you will have to do a LOT), try to keep the oil away from the rubber seals. Especially the one where the hop up is. They've been known to soak it up, swell, crack and break. Not to mention also that if it swells, the bbs are going to have a harder time going through it. Which will also cause jam issues.

It's crazy..this thing has so many bad points yet I still love it.

thehomeofDob wrote:

It's Ultrair Power Gas from ASG. Contains C4H10, C3H8. Thanks for the tip about inserting the mag.

Ah right, is that the gas BFSL is selling? It's good stuff. My Mac actually worked on that before when N.O.I.P brought it up.

thehomeofDob

Silicone, I knew there was something I forgot at BFSL. Will remember that tip.

o1s1n

thehomeofDob wrote:

Silicone, I knew there was something I forgot at BFSL. Will remember that tip.

Oh you don't have any? The Mac really shouldn't be sold without a bottle. It needs the stuff almost as much as gas :eek:

I take mine down, clean it and give it a fresh spray after most uses.

thehomeofDob

o1s1n wrote:

I take mine down, clean it and give it a fresh spray after most uses.

As in completely strip it? Guys in BFSL never mentioned that I wouldn't have been too quick to be drawn in by it's angry sound and huge rate of fire had I known the upkeep time it required .

o1s1n

Yep. Although it probably doesn't need cleaning THAT regularly, I just like trying to keep the thing functioning...and I enjoy cleaning it too

It's not hard to take apart at all. You just release the front pin and the whole top lifts off. As far as cleaning, doing that should give you access to most of it.

If you want to take it further, you can twist the top part of the bolt off and that comes apart easily too.

But yeah, the front of the box should have a large warning saying

"If you don't like stripping and lubing, don't but this GBB!"

Okay maybe not stripping and lubing... but you get the idea.

cherubaul

Just going to chime in here and review something that o1s1n said. Its true that the HFC M11A1 doesnt stand up to the KSC one in terms of reliability etc. But the magazines are and I genuinely mean this from having them yonks a using them a lot are excellent in my opinion they are the best to get as i have 10 mac 11 mags now 6 HFC and 4 KSC. the 6 HFC still function prefectl while 1 KSC is knackered and 1 has a leak.
In fact if you were to buy a marui M92f i would reccomend that you bought the HFC mags for it as the marui mags have a tendency to die before the HFC.

But also as o1s1n said you really have to look after your Mac service it well and it will service your target leave it unattended and youre looking at a new bolt and a royal pain in the arse.

thehomeofDob

I'm after chucking the manual that came with the MAC, I'm thinking it probably had a diagram of how to strip it. Any chance anyone can post up pictures? I've gotten the front pin out, but the top of the stock seems to be attached somewhere near the back quarter. I see two philips screws, dunno are these the ones holding it down.

What all has to be greeced and cleaned? I know the M50 came with a cleaning rod for the barrel, it didn't mention cleaning any other parts though. I've probably run 1000 rounds through both guns together over the last two few days, more so through the MAC (mmmm... full auto) bout time for a service?

Spitfire666

BFSL has LOADS of scopes available, just get one that you like the look of and can afford as they are more for looks then anything else with the 1J limit.

Im sure if you take the gun in and try it out with some at BFSL you'll find one you like.

o1s1n

The front pin in the only thing you have to remove.

pull the bolt back fully and the back part should come away. There's just a metal hook part that has to be released. It's easy enough if you mess about with it for a bit.

Spray all the parts that move. While avoiding the rubber seals. Should do the trick.

thehomeofDob

Ah I see, I wasn't pushing it back far enough, so the catch at the back was still stuck, sorted. It's interesting to see the simple mechanics.

I was thinking there, would it be possible to disasemble the magazine and insert a very thin "something" down one side of where the BB's go. That would cause them to seperate slightly more, maybe eliminating the problem with it shooting the BB's out the side.

o1s1n

The mechanics of GBBs are simple alright. Makes them pretty easy to clean out.

I wouldn't be taking gas magazines apart if you don't need to. Chances are they might leak when you put them back together.

I'm just after noticing there's a maruzen m11 gas magazine on ehobbyasia. Obviously for their version of the gbb. I wonder how the bbs are stacked in that? Might be another option.

thehomeofDob

I might try it when I pick up some spare mags. I'm after a Steyr AUG now... damn, gonna be broke, and have no where to put all these.

Markspi

thehomeofDob wrote:

I'm after chucking the manual that came with the MAC, I'm thinking it probably had a diagram of how to strip it. Any chance anyone can post up pictures? I've gotten the front pin out, but the top of the stock seems to be attached somewhere near the back quarter. I see two philips screws, dunno are these the ones holding it down.

What all has to be greeced and cleaned? I know the M50 came with a cleaning rod for the barrel, it didn't mention cleaning any other parts though. I've probably run 1000 rounds through both guns together over the last two few days, more so through the MAC (mmmm... full auto) bout time for a service?

if you go to B.F.S.L site they have technical drawings in produts mite help