Comments on lower stakes posts

dougee19

just something i noticed, would appreciate it if others commented.


just one thing, im really getting sick of peoples posts on lower stakes hands on here, who write this kind of stuff

"I think at these stakes I would just shove on the flop

I don't klnow much about these stakes but I'd probably just go all in on the flop when he raises me."


personally, i dont like reading this...
i would actually rather people... i dunno, multiply all the bets by 4( e.g.25/50 into 1/2) or something and then figure what they'd do in their normal stakes rather than just say ah i'd go all in there just because they're used to higher stakes.
i think people are missing out on valuable information when all they hear is, at these stakes i'd be all in...
i know i dont post on here much anymore, but have noticed that for a long time and would really like to know if im the only one that feels like this. because even though its something small it really bugs me

im trying to figure something out, the reason why people are posting this is because they're either assuming the standard is bad and you're probably ahead more often...

personall i actually think some posters are actually saying the standard is probably bad and its not too much money might as well gamble. not picking out anyone in particular cause i never even read this forum anymore really.

ive been told by others "they're saying that at these stakes most players are weak". but im still confused as to whether a lot of the posts are actually because of this or just giving advice to push because the money involved is not that high

Mr.Plough

its well known that players at micro stakes are generally poorer and more stationy that higher levels. so usually its better to just shove with made hands as you'll be called by marginal hands/draws and whatnot whereas you wouldn't at 2/4 or whatever

dougee19

Mr.Plough wrote:

its well known that players at micro stakes are generally poorer and more stationy that higher levels. so usually its better to just shove with made hands as you'll be called by marginal hands/draws and whatnot whereas you wouldn't at 2/4 or whatever

i understand that, and there is a very good chance thats the reason. most people will definately agree with that anyway... but reading like half the posts in reply to a small stakes post i just think, people are actually just writing the same stuff over and over. i dont know how many times ive read at these stakes i'd push... and the main reason its gotten to me, is that ive been on here for only the last week now, and ive seen around 5 posts on small stakes cash games saying you should push here when its obvious that even at these stakes its a fold.
its probably just me who thinks all this but just want to hear other peoples opinions on this...


and since im complaining anyway, might as well bring this up..

ppl asking for results really annoys me as it's completely irrelevant and may bias the advice given. i just think instead of people asking for the results in the forum pm them and ask or something like that...

RoundTower

one of the reasons the posters in question are still playing low stakes is that they don't pay enough attention to their opponents and don't have good reads on them. So you have to assume the opponent is a typical opponent for the stakes posted. It would be stupid to give advice against an "unknown" opponent at 5c-10c assuming he is a typical $5-$10 player.

RoundTower

dougee19 wrote:

and the main reason its gotten to me, is that ive been on here for only the last week now, and ive seen around 5 posts on small stakes cash games saying you should push here when its obvious that even at these stakes its a fold.

examples?

RedJoker

Posters say "at these stakes" as a shorthand to writing out that the average player at micro stakes is usually passive, a calling station, only thinking about his own hand, unlikely to be making plays based on ranges or thinking about what your actions to this point mean, probably overvaluing his hand, etc., etc., etc.

Thinking about the game in terms of a 1/2 game wouldn't be a lot of use to the OP as the games play very differently and an optimal line in one game may not be the best or even a good line to take in the other. Thinking about how to play the hand at your own stakes could be a useful exercise for yourself though.

If the poster was saying they'd push because of the money involved then they are either inexperienced players or poor posters. And if that is the case then it's a valid criticism.

dougee19

RoundTower wrote:

one of the reasons the posters in question are still playing low stakes is that they don't pay enough attention to their opponents and don't have good reads on them. So you have to assume the opponent is a typical opponent for the stakes posted. It would be stupid to give advice against an "unknown" opponent at 5c-10c assuming he is a typical $5-$10 player.

im not saying to be that extreme in the variance of the play. im just saying relate it more to yourself when you comment on it...
obviously assuming .05/.10 and 5/10 players are the same would just be plain stupid, i was just thinking if the same thing happened to you, what would you do...
change the values of the money so that you can understand how much it means to you, like if someone wrote $50 in a .25/50 cent game people who play like 2/4 wouldn't even think of it as a lot of money, im just saying change the value of the money and blinds so that you can relate to it and then do what you see fit against the player of a lower standard...
i mean, $50 would mean nothing, but if they actually related it to their own stakes, $400 would be a lot and you wouldnt be making stupid mistakes so personally i think the advice would be a lot more helpful.

just personal opinion, because i always see the same stuff over and over on lower stakes posts, and only see a few posters giving genuine helpful advice

dougee19

RoundTower wrote:

examples?

i actually think i had 7 posts from the last month with the same stuff, but im not making anymore enemies on here

have way too many already

RedJoker

dougee19 wrote:

obviously assuming .05/.10 and 5/10 players are the same would just be plain stupid, i was just thinking if the same thing happened to you, what would you do...
change the values of the money so that you can understand how much it means to you, like if someone wrote $50 in a .25/50 cent game people who play like 2/4 wouldn't even think of it as a lot of money, im just saying change the value of the money and blinds so that you can relate to it and then do what you see fit against the player of a lower standard...
i mean, $50 would mean nothing, but if they actually related it to their own stakes, $400 would be a lot and you wouldnt be making stupid mistakes so personally i think the advice would be a lot more helpful.

Again, only inexperienced players or poor posters would think like this. Most posters are thinking about the betting in terms of the blinds, the pot, stack sizes, etc. not the absolute value of the money.

Also a 400nl player thinks of $400 as one buy-in, not the absolute value of the money.

dougee19

RedJoker wrote:

Posters say "at these stakes" as a shorthand to writing out that the average player at micro stakes is usually passive, a calling station, only thinking about his own hand, unlikely to be making plays based on ranges or thinking about what your actions to this point mean, probably overvaluing his hand, etc., etc., etc.

Thinking about the game in terms of a 1/2 game wouldn't be a lot of use to the OP as the games play very differently and an optimal line in one game may not be the best or even a good line to take in the other. Thinking about how to play the hand at your own stakes could be a useful exercise for yourself though.

If the poster was saying they'd push because of the money involved then they are either inexperienced players or poor posters. And if that is the case then it's a valid criticism.

If the poster was saying they'd push because of the money involved then they are either inexperienced players or poor posters. And if that is the case then it's a valid criticism.

maybe i just picked some bad posts to be reading, but i definately didnt think people were actually thinking out these hands. just seemed like they were muttered the same stuff as on other posts, i'd push here. all in for sure, same stuff over and over...


"Thinking about how to play the hand at your own stakes could be a useful exercise for yourself though."
i think it would be good for yourself, but even better for the people who are learning how to play. would really benefit their game i think anyway

ianmc38

move up levels

RedJoker

dougee19 wrote:

If the poster was saying they'd push because of the money involved then they are either inexperienced players or poor posters. And if that is the case then it's a valid criticism.

maybe i just picked some bad posts to be reading, but i definately didnt think people were actually thinking out these hands. just seemed like they were muttered the same stuff as on other posts, i'd push here. all in for sure, same stuff over and over...

A lot of the time a situation is very clearly a fold or very clearly a push and some of the higher stakes players have been in similar situations lots of times and just answer the question without giving a reason. Some people get annoyed by this but it's just their style of posting and if you want further elaboration then you can ask and somebody will explain the reasons.

dougee19 wrote:

"Thinking about how to play the hand at your own stakes could be a useful exercise for yourself though."
i think it would be good for yourself, but even better for the people who are learning how to play. would really benefit their game i think anyway

Maybe, but it could just as easily harm their play if they misinterpreted it. They're posting a micro stakes hand because they want advice on how to play it at those stakes, not at games many times higher than that.

Also, the hands might play very differently at different stakes so what may be right at one level could be wrong at another.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

Van Dice

Personally I would have shoved the flop

Macspower

I think this is a really bad attitude from a guy who has posted more rubbish here then most... this forum is intended as an Irish poker community and people are as welcome to post small stakes post as well as large stakes posts..... most of the players on here are small to medium stakes players and some of the better players taking the time to help them put is commendable....

There are a lot of higher stakes players that have "served their time" on the lower stakes and are better players as a result.... I had a long conversatin with a regular poster the other night that started with 50 dollars a year ago and has worked his way through the micro limits and is now playing medium stakes with good success. I admire his dicipline and I guarantee he knows more about bankroll management than anyone at this stage...

While the amount of money involved in the hand should never change you decision on how to play it you should always take into acount the levels as generally at the lower levels the standard of play is poorer... at 5/10 I expect to see a lot more thinking players than at .5.10 so therefore my advice would be different for the stakes involved as the opp is different kinda player.... therefore your stupid suggestion that they multiply the stakes is totally invalid...

I think you are being grossly unfair to lower stakes players here and if you don't like em don't read em....

btw were just as happy to discuss higher stakes play if you want to post some of your hands for discussion?

edited to say I've probably taken the bait from a intended troll? but my views anyway

looserock

dougee19 is my AA post one of the posts your referring to?

tribulus

Speaking as someone who occasionally posts small stakes hands I've had no problem with the replies.

I just accept that to a lot of the posters the decisions or optimal line to take is fairly obvious, hence the reply will not be long and in depth..

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055133908&referrerid=&highlight=

As an example, the replies were not incredibly detailed but helpful never the less. The advice is a lot more basic because the decisions are a lot more straight forward, I really don't see any problem.

Conspicuous

Time to push Dougee...
yourself off a cliff

DeVore

I absolutely hate levels-snobs but I dont think thats really a factor here.

Opponents at the micro stakes generally arent good enough to spot your cunning double-reverse-checked-the-turn-with-a-monster-bluff attempt and will just call or fold regardless. There are tools that are simply not in your toolkit at those levels and so the answers vary from higher levels.

Plus, which playing .10/.20c might be big stakes for someone with little cash, most people earn about the same and there is a cluster of people for whom money has more or less the same value, so its fair enough if they treat the cash as dispensible because they are presuming (not unreasonably) that the OP sees it as such too.

That was far too long a post for this topic, lol.

DeV.

AdMMM

just one thing, im really getting sick of peoples posts on lower stakes hands on here, who write this kind of stuff

"I think at these stakes I would just shove on the flop

I don't klnow much about these stakes but I'd probably just go all in on the flop when he raises me."

I don't particularly see anything wrong with these comments. As a small stakes player, I'm only too aware that the vast majority of the players don't understand many of the established concepts and strategies of poker (and those who are, are the players you want to avoid grappling with) and therefore I don't think it's really appropriate or neccessary to elaborate in the vast majority of hands. The best way to beat the lower levels is to keep things simple, i.e shove or fold and any deviation from that may very well help the player in the higher levels, but it will certainly ensure that they will never have the bankroll to allow them to!

cardshark202

ianmc38 wrote:

move up levels

This is one problem that dougee's got well covered.

fuzzbox

dougee19 wrote:

ppl asking for results really annoys me as it's completely irrelevant and may bias the advice given. i just think instead of people asking for the results in the forum pm them and ask or something like that...

ppl who dont post results after they make a post and get some advice really annoy me. I think its pretty ignorant to ask for some help, and then leave these helpers in the cold wondering what actually happened.

Macspower

fuzzbox wrote:

ppl who dont post results after they make a post and get some advice really annoy me. I think its pretty ignorant to ask for some help, and then leave these helpers in the cold wondering what actually happened.

agreed and a thank you is always nice as well :rolleyes:

cooker3

fuzzbox wrote:

ppl who dont post results after they make a post and get some advice really annoy me. I think its pretty ignorant to ask for some help, and then leave these helpers in the cold wondering what actually happened.

Hmmmn, are you leveling?
I pretty much never post results unless asked because I find it fairly irrelevant

RoadSweeper

depends if the hand i interesting or fairly obvious. I usually like to know.