what do you think of BCB (contains some poker strategy)

Macspower

whats the betting this one gets more views than any other thread this week...

ok put away your knives, swords and all other sharp instruments this is about a certain betting pattern..

A line I've been taking a good bit lately is the "BET / CHECK/ BET"

example:

Dealt to you AK on the button

raise with one caller

flop A 5 7r

bet 3/4 pot he calls

turn Q completing rainbow

check / check

River random brick.

he checks you bet again


What are the advantages of this line?
What are the disadvantages?
Does it help you get paid by mid pair on the river?
Are you loosing value with your big hands?

Opinions Please

mrflash

lol, it seems from almost every post that this is the way to play a big hand, its seems to be the most recommended line to take according to most of those 'in the know'

shoutman

Feck I had replied and it came up as if it had been quadruplicated so i deleted two of them and they all disapeared.
I couldnt be arsed writing it out again. Bad beat.

Macspower

shoutman wrote:

Feck I had replied and it came up as if it had been quadruplicated so i deleted two of them and they all disapeared.
I couldnt be arsed writing it out again. Bad beat.

boards is seriously retarded toay... I was typing the op and in the middle of it boards went and posted it all on it's own...wtf?? had to edit it

bops

he's a right arrogant pr1ck :rolleyes:

...it's a great line when you want to be looked up...often appears to be a cbet otf followed by a river bluff

What are the advantages of this line?
your hand looks like a bluff
What are the disadvantages?
you are giving a free card ott and maybe not building the pot a quick as is optimal
Does it help you get paid by mid pair on the river?
hell yes
Are you loosing value with your big hands?
only sometimes, depends on how strong the other guy is, ie if they will call 3 barrels anyway - also the other side of the coin, if you are in the middle of being cold-decked, it may actually save you $$$

(...although sometimes, depending on the turn card, your check can be perceived as you have made your hand in full and are now trapping)

NickyOD

I think that line is fine for this hand against most opponents. A lot of the time checking the turn would be bad in a slightly different situation. Stack sizes obviously play a big part also. Not only that but if you have history with the villain then you should probably sometimes bet and sometimes check and sometimes check the flop. In fact I'd probably check the flop quite a lot.

ianmc38

its fine but against a decent player its fairly transparent, ie bet top pair, check turn for pot control, value bet river

Hectorjelly

mrflash wrote:

lol, it seems from almost every post that this is the way to play a big hand, its seems to be the most recommended line to take according to most of those 'in the know'

no, its the way to play a medium hand. With a big hand you should bet the turn

BobSloane

I think after you are at a table for a hundred or so hands its worth doing this to mix up your play. Most of the time I seem to have 60-70% unknown players and theres no big meta game going on. Its just a case of how much will the 30/8/1 guy call here and I'd value bet in a very straight forward way. Against a lot of random players you can win big pots just betting every street and fancy tricks are wasted on them. They wont fold AQ,AJ,AT etc, they wont raise with it and they're very slow to bet it.
This is probably more true the more loose aggressive you are playing

BigCityBanker

lol

robinlacey

i've started using this line instead of second barrells when i miss against good players some of the time.
i've also started to wonder if they're doing the same to me

fuzzbox

I've stopped using this line as much, and am more preferring to bet the turn and chk/behind on the river.

the line is just so obvious, and therefore I dont seem to get paid as much - because your hand doesnt really look like a bluff, it looks like top pair, and you can face a fair amount of CR on the river that you cant call.

Comments?

Mr.Plough

fuzzbox wrote:

I've stopped using this line as much, and am more preferring to bet the turn and chk/behind on the river.

there was a discussion on 2p2 about this line a while ago and i'm also using it more. you'll face an auto bet on the river if you check the turn alot of the time which you've no idea if it represents strength or not. If you double barrel villain will nearly always check the river allowing you to checkback, unless they have an absolute monster. and theres the obvious advantages like hand protection etc.

cooker3

fuzzbox wrote:

I've stopped using this line as much, and am more preferring to bet the turn and chk/behind on the river.

the line is just so obvious, and therefore I dont seem to get paid as much - because your hand doesnt really look like a bluff, it looks like top pair, and you can face a fair amount of CR on the river that you cant call.

Comments?

Well at 50nl anyway when I bluffed with this line people always called me down so started doing it with better hands and in general I get paid off. But people cr river as bluff at 50nl like never.

*Counterfeit*

I've recently come to the conclusion that one should NEVER miss a bet at the pot if one thinks one is front, from pre-flop to the river. Usual reasons here - field thinning, information and pot building. I've started applying this to both my tournament and cash play and have noticed a marked improvement in my performance in both. It seems bizarre that one's game can be improved by the application of such a basic rule, but for my own part anyhow, the results speak for themselves. It might be argued that my play thus becomes entirely readable, but counterintuitively this is not so - the only pattern that can be established is that I'm aggressive. Of course this is not my line in all pots (e.g. drawing ands) but generally now once I take the lead and catch my flop I won't slow down unless the betting suggests I might be behind. I find myself in fewer tricky spots having tried to get clever with my hand such as the BCB line. Any thoughts on this uber basic approach?

Mr.Plough

*Counterfeit* wrote:

I've recently come to the conclusion that one should NEVER miss a bet at the pot if one thinks one is front, from pre-flop to the river. Usual reasons here - field thinning, information and pot building. I've started applying this to both my tournament and cash play and have noticed a marked improvement in my performance in both. It seems bizarre that one's game can be improved by the application of such a basic rule, but for my own part anyhow, the results speak for themselves. It might be argued that my play thus becomes entirely readable, but counterintuitively this is not so - the only pattern that can be established is that I'm aggressive. Of course this is not my line in all pots (e.g. drawing ands) but generally now once I take the lead and catch my flop I won't slow down unless the betting suggests I might be behind. I find myself in fewer tricky spots having tried to get clever with my hand such as the BCB line. Any thoughts on this uber basic approach?

yeah, you'll be stacked with one pair hands more often. pot control isn't trying to be clever or tricky, its common sense. You dont have a monster hand, so you don't want a monster pot.

*Counterfeit*

Mr.Plough wrote:

You dont have a monster hand, so you don't want a monster pot.

On the balancing side of that equation, the pots you win with non-monsters are also larger.

Mr.Plough

*Counterfeit* wrote:

On the balancing side of that equation, the pots you win with non-monsters are also larger.

why do you have to play in inflated pots with marginal hands?

*Counterfeit*

Self explanatory question?!

Macspower

Some of my own thoughts on the subject...

I've been using this line quite a bit with my medium hands usually top pair hands with good success. I find if I hot the flop and c-bet my c-bet often gets floated with any pair and if I double barrell the oops thinks ahh yes he has hit and folds. however if I chekc the turn it often does one of 2 things. It induces a bet from the opp with a weak holding on the river or I bet the river and get called by a hand that wouldn't have called my turn bet.

Another advantage is if you are behiund on the flop with your TP it keeps the pot under control and you can call a river bet and get to a cheap showdown. where if you bet the turn and the opp call or cr the turn you have a big pot to play on the river with a marginal holding...

On the other hand it is giving the opp a chance to improve his hand but if he does the pot is manageable..

Against thinking players this can be used as a bluff but use it sparingly as most players at 100 and 200 nl cant fold to a ppsb on the river with any pair aftera BCB.. it's what makes poker profitable...

In sumary... when I use it:
Normally with a TP hand in position when my c-bet has been called.
or oop after my c-bet has been called to induce a turn bet from the opp...

when I don't use it: When I have big hand. ie 2 pr set str8 flush etc etc... here I want to build a big pot with my big hand and will nearly always bet the turn and prob tripple barrel if I think I will get called... sometimes I will check the river if I think the opp has missed his draw to induce a bet.
Also I don't use it against donks as a bluff as I get looked up too many times for this to be profitable as the psb on the river is too small for them to fold..

Just my 2c worth... feel free to correct me/ agree or discuss as appropriate

Mac

Frazzled

Macspower wrote:

whats the betting this one gets more views than any other thread this week...

ok put away your knives, swords and all other sharp instruments this is about a certain betting pattern..

A line I've been taking a good bit lately is the "BET / CHECK/ BET"

example:

Dealt to you AK on the button

raise with one caller

flop A 5 7r

bet 3/4 pot he calls

turn Q completing rainbow

check / check

River random brick.

he checks you bet again


What are the advantages of this line?
What are the disadvantages?
Does it help you get paid by mid pair on the river?
Are you loosing value with your big hands?

Opinions Please

How exactly did you manage to lose position on the river? The betting patterns do not make sense?

Macspower

Frazzled wrote:

How exactly did you manage to lose position on the river? The betting patterns do not make sense?

welcome to the forum Frazzled

This is not an actual hh but just an example of a line...

It's actually missing a flop check by the villan... apologies

Hectorjelly

One of the many BCB is so important with real hands because it means when you continuation bet the flop, and then check the turn, you arent immediately giving your hand away as air.

Conspicuous

Macspower wrote:

welcome to the forum Frazzled

I never got the red carpet treatment Paul :mad: :mad:

Blip

Macspower wrote:

What are the advantages of this line?

1. Mixing it up with players that are paying attention may get some value.

2. What are the disadvantages?

3. Does it help you get paid by mid pair on the river?
4. Are you loosing value with your big hands?

Opinions Please

1. Mixing it up with players that are paying attention may get some value.

2. I’m not sure about this play, I think there’s to much detail missing to make it a general line.
Stacks, stats and reads on villain are important.

So you raise PF standard OTB, a lot of blinds will call with a range of small pairs, ace rag and suited broadway cards. If he check calls the flop bet, be sure he has a piece of the pie. (In your example and given his range, he could easily have 2pair or a set made on the flop looking to CR or float the turn) Checking behind on the turn gives him to much of an opportunity to improve / further improve, if he now bets the river you don’t know where you are.

I think betting the turn for close to pot size is a better line usually resulting in a fold, if you get resistance you can then re-evaluate the situation (reads stats etc.)


3./4. Winning a pot regardless of size is always +EV.


Just my 2c.

Macspower

Conspicuous wrote:

I never got the red carpet treatment Paul :mad: :mad:

you've got 7 posts.... your an old hand at it now