Chest

wingnut32

This might sound a bit silly after two months of weight training but I am slightly worried that I am not gaining mass on my chest.
I have been working very hard four nights a week and stuffing my face as much as I can ( 6 meals a day). I am making noticable gains everywhere else but my chest is lagging behind which is odd because I am lifting more weight on the bench press with the exception of squats and deadlifts.
Currently I am doing bench press, dumbell flys and 60 push ups for my chest. Is there anything else I should consider doing to help?
The area I am most worried about is my upper chest where there is little or no mucsle around the breastplate.

Any ideas?

NoQuarter

hey mate,
i had the same problem as you, i was makin gains everywhere except my chest and as fas as benching goes i was flyin up in the weight but the muscle just wouldnt grow,

ive 2 ideas....

1. try doing supersets on your chest so do dumbell flys and start on say 20kg(or whatever) and do reps to failure, then STRAIGHT AWAY pick up say 15's and go to failure and then straight away again pick up say 12's and go to failure, this should give you a good burn in your chest!

2. try the crossover machine, not too sure of the right name for it buts the machine you stand in the middle of and use the cables to crossover your chest, depending on the motion you use when crossing your arms and the position your arms end in you can target your upper, middle and lower pecs.

give these a try and ya might have some success!

wingnut32

Thanks King

Ill try doing the supersets..should I do these with the bench also or just with the flys?

Also Im working out at home (gotta mind the kids when I get in from work) so I dont have access to one of these machines...is there anything else I can add??

Gavin "shels"

If you own a set of weights, just simply put the dumbells down by your side and then lift them up so there in-line with your shoulders. If you get me. They work, I've been doing them for a while now and have a rock-solid chest.

cousin_borat

Personally I don't find a change in chest shape until I am also working on my back as well. IE bent over heavy dumbell rows, machine rows, lat pulldown machine or pull ups. You cant develop your chest unless you're exercising your back as well.

Also this is a good video demonstrating various Chest exercises. Milos Sarchev is very knowledgable.
http://thefitshow.com/week3/milos_chest_med.htm

Best tip he gives is to always remember to stimulate the muscle in question (in this case your pecs).

Cravez

king-stew wrote:

1. try doing supersets on your chest so do dumbell flys and start on say 20kg(or whatever) and do reps to failure, then STRAIGHT AWAY pick up say 15's and go to failure and then straight away again pick up say 12's and go to failure, this should give you a good burn in your chest!

Id go with this also, i used to do alot of Dumbell Fly Supersets when i first started lifting and it greatly helped my Chest Development. Although i wouldn't do it for long periods of time or make it a regular type of thing. Id also switch barbell with dumbell benching for a while as i find you get a better stretch or focus on your chest. Incline work will also help build your upper chest.

NoQuarter

hey wingnut

yeah do the supersets with the barbell too why not!
as michael said there an incline will target your upper pecs and a decline will target your lowers so just pop a step under the top of the bench if its not ajustable and away ya go!
youll have to keep changing your workout to keep "shocking" your muscles so to speak to help them develop.

also try getting a heavy dumbell, lying flat on the bench and holding the dumbell behind your head and keep raising it up to above your head always keepin your arms locked out, this should help expand your chest and helps give a base for your pecs to develop on!

wingnut32

Thanks for all the replies folks ill take the advice and see how I get on, one last question though...for the first couple of workouts I would be really sore all over the next day, this has kind of stopped now, is this normal??

rubadub

wingnut32 wrote:

for the first couple of workouts I would be really sore all over the next day, this has kind of stopped now, is this normal??

Yes, normal.

You might get it again if you start doing different exercises or changing them, e.g. I started going really low on squats and had sore muscles for several days afterwards, obviously the muscles were not targeted fully before so it was like starting all over again.

Dragan

Make sure your actually working your chest on things like benching.

It's real easy to use a load of tri's, delts and lats to move a weight, as opposed to use your chest and make it grow.

kevpants

Maybe if you drop the pushups and concentrate on the bench and the flys? I don't see the need for the pushups if you really destroy your chest on the bench, Be sure to do plenty of incline benches to put mass on your upper chest, otherwise you'll notice you can feel your ribs at the top of your breastplate. Can be demoralising, I was that soldier.

tribulus

I'd agree that push ups certainly isn't going to give you huge pecs, however they are an excellent exercise as a warm up for the shoulder ,if done right.

So I see no harm in keeping them in for a few warm up sets. Your bread and butter though should be heavy pressing variations.

justsomebloke

I agree with D on this, you mightn't be actually working your chest effectively. try do dumbell bench instead and see if this helps to hit your chest more. Also are you only doing flat benching or do you include some incline and decline work as well

Smidul

Technique is important in the push ups. If you spread your arms wide you get a different feeling and if you bring them closer to your chest its different. I've built up my chest with jus push ups. You have to do the push ups past the point of soreness on the arms and you will feel it on the chest.

tribulus

The most important thing about press ups is to get your scapula retracted and depressed.

I've personally yet to meet anyone with a decent chest who didn't spend time under the bar.

wingnut32

thanks again for the replies, I started doing some incline benches last night, incline flys and the flat bench...I still dont feel like I am doing enough though, here is the weight that I am lifting:

Bench 4/8 40kg (starting to fail at last set)
Incline Bench (just started last night) 4/8 20kg
Flys 4/8 11kg each dumbbell (finding it hard with this weight)

I also do skull crushers and close grip bench press in this routine and I have to tell you my triceps were shaking for about two hours afterwards but this was not the case with my chest???

tribulus

How can you know whether or not you're doing enough after one session!?

Give it easily 4 weeks then look back. Are the numbers up? If yes, great keep doing something similiar. If no, change things around, change exercises, increase volume, decrease your rest times etc. Gotta give your body some time.

rubadub

Dragan wrote:

Make sure your actually working your chest on things like benching.

Any tips/techniques on how to make sure your chest is worked more? e.g. arm position. I dont feel I work mine enough when benching.

tribulus

Keep your shoulders back and down and driven into the bench. Tuck your elbows a little bit as you bring the bar down - I've found that to be the best thing for getting my pecs involved. I've noticed a lot of decent benchers do that instinctively without being told to.

Don't use too wide of a grip. Some people say a wider grip (like index on the rings) will increase the focus on the pecs but all it did to me was impinge my rotator cuff! Some where in between should be fine.

Hanley

rubadub wrote:

Any tips/techniques on how to make sure your chest is worked more? e.g. arm position. I dont feel I work mine enough when benching.

It's not "easy" to use your lats on the bench. It takes alot of practice first off...

As for hitting your chest more.... Contrary to what might seem to be the percieved norm, I find that if I touch slightly lower than normal (ie jst below my nipples) and keep a bit of a tuck in my elbows it hits my chest really well. Not that I'm too concenred abotu ti, but I'm just judging that by the DOMS location!

You could try things like neck presses (ie keep the weight relatively light) and instead of lowering to your chest go towards your neck), ultra wide grip pressing [although i'm not sure of their worth cos of the stress they put on your shoulders] and of course incline benching.

Personally nothing has build my chest like heavy 8x3'swith 80ish% and 5x5's with 70-75% followed with flys 5x10, 3 times a week. Inclines have really helped too.

I really like to keep things simple. If I want my chest to be bigger, get stronger on the bench and incline. Do some flys and get a good stretch. Eat more.

If your bench goes up 20kg and you're eating a ton then your chest WILL grow.

wingnut32

Tribulus last night was actually my 4th week on the new routine and I have gone from 25kg to 40kg in those 4 weeks, i know that this is progress but I am unclear if it is good progress and chest doesnt seem any bigger...

Hanley, should I be looking to increase the weight when doing flys, I think I have added 6.5kg to each dumbbell in the 4 weeks??? I have read not to sacrifice form for weight...

tribulus

15kg on your bench in 4 weeks? Yes it's good progress!! Even if you're a beginner that's good going. Keep it up and make sure you're eating, the growth will come with the numbers.

Hanley

wingnut32 wrote:

Tribulus last night was actually my 4th week on the new routine and I have gone from 25kg to 40kg in those 4 weeks, i know that this is progress but I am unclear if it is good progress and chest doesnt seem any bigger...

Hanley, should I be looking to increase the weight when doing flys, I think I have added 6.5kg to each dumbbell in the 4 weeks??? I have read not to sacrifice form for weight...

At the stage you're at I would imagine the additional weight you're now benching is a function of improved motor control. Not neccessairly increased muscular strength. You're probably just learning how to co-ordinate the movement better.

As you spend more time under the bar these improvements will slow down ALOT so your muscles are going to have to take over and get stronger. That's where the additional size will come from.

Don't worry too much about not adding a noticable amount of muscle in 4 weeks. I bet if you can push you bench up to 60kg then your chest will grow.

As for increasing the weight with the flies... first and foremost you sohuld be pushing for more weight on the big movement (the bench press). If you can use more weight on the flies for the same amount of reps and keep good form then go for it. If not just try and do an extra rep or 2 with each set until you're strong enough to move up in weight and lower the reps again.

PeadarofAodh

Just a quick question to do with this,

I'm currently benching 4 sets of 12 reps at 67.5kgs, is it ok to do a few sets of inclines in the same workout or should I do that on a seperate day? And how heavy should it be given my benching weight?

NoQuarter

wingnut32 wrote:

Bench 4/8 40kg (starting to fail at last set)
Incline Bench (just started last night) 4/8 20kg
Flys 4/8 11kg each dumbbell (finding it hard with this weight)

i personally believe you shoud be finding it hard with every weight and every set should be a struggle, i dont really see the point of doing a set of 8 reps and being fine after it, id much rather pick a heavier weight, aiming for 8 reps and only being able to get 6, at least i know ive challenged the muscles.

its true they say you shouldnt sacrifice form for weight but i think the line is "bendy" so you should constantly be tryin to up the weight!

rubadub

Cheers for the tips on working the pecs more. I will try them tonight. I have upped the weight so I was down to 4reps last time I benched, and felt it more in the chest.

At the stage you're at I would imagine the additional weight you're now benching is a function of improved motor control. Not neccessairly increased muscular strength. You're probably just learning how to co-ordinate the movement better.

That is what happened with me. I workout at home so was also wary of being trapped under the bar, took a few weeks before I knew (and had confidence) that I could manage 1 last rep or not.

I have a crappy cheap bench and the rests cannot hold the bar high, therefore my head is hitting it on inclines, so I am stuck using a bar with low weights, or dumbells. Since there is no resting spot for the dumbells I have to lift them off the ground, and am half knackered just doing that!, I have thought of having them on chairs beside me, also though of making a second lower bench that could be inclined and under the bar properly.

NoQuarter

for the dumbells i sit upright on a bench with the dumbells resting between my legs on the bench and in one big motion roll back onto my back and the dumbells should end up resting on your chest ready to be lifted and when im finished lifting i just throw them away from my body onto the ground!! easy peasy!

kevpants

king-stew wrote:

i personally believe you shoud be finding it hard with every weight and every set should be a struggle, i dont really see the point of doing a set of 8 reps and being fine after it, id much rather pick a heavier weight, aiming for 8 reps and only being able to get 6, at least i know ive challenged the muscles.

its true they say you shouldnt sacrifice form for weight but i think the line is "bendy" so you should constantly be tryin to up the weight!

Agreed. 4 sets of 8 reps at the same weight might be a bit too flat. Try maybe pyramiding down from a weight you can only do 3 - 5 reps with. What I mean is lift a heavier weight for the first set and then shave weight off as you go on. This should really exhaust the muscles.

Hanley

kevpants wrote:

Agreed. 4 sets of 8 reps at the same weight might be a bit too flat. Try maybe pyramiding down from a weight you can only do 3 - 5 reps with. What I mean is lift a heavier weight for the first set and then shave weight off as you go on. This should really exhaust the muscles.

Do you actually want to exhaust the muscles tho....?

NoQuarter

theres probably a big difference in opinion on this but i would say yes, i wasnt happy leaving the gym if my muscles didnt feel drained!

then get home and have a whey shake and eat a big snack and sit back and watch the muscles grow!!!

rubadub

king-stew wrote:

for the dumbells i sit upright on a bench with the dumbells resting between my legs on the bench and in one big motion roll back onto my back and the dumbells should end up resting on your chest ready to be lifted and when im finished lifting i just throw them away from my body onto the ground!! easy peasy!

I tried that before and it was fine for lower weights, but a bit ropey for higher weights. I am also upstairs so cant throw them down on the floorboards.

I got my incline with the bar though, I just rolled up a pillow and stuck it under the bench, where the board flops down. The york bench only came with 2 inclined settings, both too high, the pillow made it just right, and actually stabilized the bench more!

Hanley

king-stew wrote:

theres probably a big difference in opinion on this but i would say yes, i wasnt happy leaving the gym if my muscles didnt feel drained!

then get home and have a whey shake and eat a big snack and sit back and watch the muscles grow!!!

But by "draining" your muscles do you think you gained any extra benefit than if you had left a rep in the bag on most sets?

I've no problem grinding out hard reps, but I definately avoid failure. I just don't see the point in it. It's so stressful on your body and takes AGES to recover from.

The best personal results both size and strength wise that I've seen have been multiple sessions per week avoid failure. Take my back for example, I'd do 1-2 lat/upper exercises per day, 3-6x10-15 4 days a week (and that's not including deadlifts or stiff leg deadlifts). I put on a massive amount of muscle doing the above and the extra stability It gave me while benching was UNREAL. 180kg felt light when I took it out on sunday before I pressed it. It only got heavy once it got to my chest.

kevpants

Hanley wrote:

The best personal results both size and strength wise that I've seen have been multiple sessions per week avoid failure. Take my back for example, I'd do 1-2 lat/upper exercises per day, 3-6x10-15 4 days a week (and that's not including deadlifts or stiff leg deadlifts). I put on a massive amount of muscle doing the above and the extra stability It gave me while benching was UNREAL. 180kg felt light when I took it out on sunday before I pressed it. It only got heavy once it got to my chest.

Jaysus your results stack up anyway. I dunno maybe draining my muscles is a bit of an obsessive thing for me but I always try and destroy whatever group I'm working on. I think if I didn't do that I'd lose intensity and probably motivation.

It's always good to keep your muscles guessing so maybe switching between what you described Hanley and going full throttle would be best but I personally enjoy the way I do it and the day I stop enjoying it is the day I think I'll call it a day.

NoQuarter

yeah im not sure if im gaining anything extra by going to failure but as kevpants said i think it s a mental thing for me, the feeling of having no energy left in your muscles after the gym is great and i got good results doing it that way myself so its definitly not wrong anyways!

Hanley

king-stew wrote:

yeah im not sure if im gaining anything extra by going to failure but as kevpants said i think it s a mental thing for me, the feeling of having no energy left in your muscles after the gym is great and i got good results doing it that way myself so its definitly not wrong anyways!

I never said it was wrong!! Just that it might not be totally optimal....

Anyways I weighed in at 98.5kg today. On May 6th I was 87.8kg. I had been training around 89kg so I think it's safe to say I've put on 9kg in about 4 months.

Also, just cos you're not hitting failure or doing force reps doesn't mean you're not training "hard". It's very easy to go to failure on a set of 12 with leg presses. But try doing 3x6 on squats where the last rep's an absolute dogfight and you'll see it's a whole other ball game.

I know for me I can do a set of 15-20 to absolute failure on the leg press or leg extenstion and be ok after 5 minutes. But if I push at heavy 3x6 on squats I'm wiped for at least 20 minutes.

BossArky

king-stew wrote:

then get home and have a whey shake and eat a big snack and sit back and watch the muscles grow!!!

Quote of the week lol

NoQuarter

BossArky wrote:

Quote of the week lol

Do i win a prize???

anyways hanley im not gonna argue with you anymore......cause your bigger than me, but no i know what ya mean, no doubt its probably not optimal the way i train but sure different strokes for different folks!!

J.S. Pill

tribulus wrote:

Don't use too wide of a grip. Some people say a wider grip (like index on the rings) will increase the focus on the pecs but all it did to me was impinge my rotator cuff! Some where in between should be fine.

What do you mean by impinge?? I've had a rotator cuff injury for the last few months and my physio told me to use a very wide grip (index finger an inch away from the ring) when bench pressing. Does it hurt when you use a wide grip?

tribulus

My left scapula didn't retract fully, causing my shoulder to be rolled forward slightly and my supraspinatus and subscapularis (2 muscles of the RC) to be impinged. Google acromial process and scapular retraction and you'll get a load of stuff on it.

Now I'm healed up it doesn't hurt no, but the wide grip definitely puts more stress on the shoulders and certainly contributed to my problem.

I don't know what your specific RC injury is nor would I have the knowledge of treatments for it but using illegal wide bench pressing does seem strange to me, unless perhaps it needs to be strengthened after the injury?

Benching that wide long term will put a lot of stress on your shoulders. Most people use pinky or ring finger on the rings and tucking your elbows slightly can reduce the force on your shoulders too.

ballsdeep69

wingnut32 wrote: »

This might sound a bit silly after two months of weight training but I am slightly worried that I am not gaining mass on my chest.
I have been working very hard four nights a week and stuffing my face as much as I can ( 6 meals a day). I am making noticable gains everywhere else but my chest is lagging behind which is odd because I am lifting more weight on the bench press with the exception of squats and deadlifts.
Currently I am doing bench press, dumbell flys and 60 push ups for my chest. Is there anything else I should consider doing to help?
The area I am most worried about is my upper chest where there is little or no mucsle around the breastplate.

Any ideas?

( .Y. )