Mac, a way of life

uberwolf

I wanted to solicit opinion as to whether there was a more appropriate place to find the Mac forum than under OS, as the Mac reach has spread a long way from when this forum was first mooted.

With iPods, iPhones, hardware and software, as well as the OS itself - should it be moved to somewhere easier to find for n00bies, and more reflective of the forum content, or will that just render the forum an iPod support desk?

iUseVi

Yes! I am first to vote. I must admit I thought it strange that the new ipods etc. were being discussed in an OS forum. Although I am new around here.....

cornbb

Put it under Religion perhaps?

Cabaal

Should be left right where it is imho

440Hz

iUseVi wrote:

Yes! I am first to vote. I must admit I thought it strange that the new ipods etc. were being discussed in an OS forum.

The forum may be under OS... but it is called "Mac" not "Mac OS" so under the general umbrella term of Macintosh I think it's fair to talk about iPods and new Apple products!

There were threads in the PMP forum too! So people expecting iPod threads under electronic devices were not disappointed, and neither were the Apple heads who come in here! Everyone is happy!

uberwolf

440Hz wrote:

The forum may be under OS... but it is called "Mac" not "Mac OS" so under the general umbrella term of Macintosh I think it's fair to talk about iPods and new Apple products!

There were threads in the PMP forum too! So people expecting iPod threads under electronic devices were not disappointed, and neither were the Apple heads who come in here! Everyone is happy!

of course it's fair to talk about all the different things - hence my question, having it under the OS section doesn't reflect the breadth of conversation.

440Hz

I think this poll should be public.. for the laugh!!!


I know where my vote is going :P

Cabaal

imho this poll is pretty pointless, there isn't enough users and traffic to justify an MacOSX, iPod etc forums or to create similar sub-forums on the Mac forum.

The forum is well established on boards.ie and gets a stready stream of traffic where it is.

If you want to get technical then we should just rename the forum "Apple" and give it its own section, but then surely we should also have a Microsoft forum too

faceman

i think it should be left the way it is. 440 does a great job at moderating and allows talk of all apple products which is cool.

its nice to be able to talk about your ipod in the mac forum without half the replies goin ipods are crap or my zune is better etc etc

uberwolf

Cabaal wrote:

imho this poll is pretty pointless, there isn't enough users and traffic to justify an MacOSX, iPod etc forums or to create similar sub-forums on the Mac forum.

The forum is well established on boards.ie and gets a stready stream of traffic where it is.

If you want to get technical then we should just rename the forum "Apple" and give it its own section, but then surely we should also have a Microsoft forum too

Tbh the sub forum idea was because I'd hit 4 options in setting up the poll.

The forum is not in an intuitive place for any newcomers - hence the three separate threads on the one topic according to 440Hz. Tech > Apple would be more appropriate.

MS isn't as necessary because there are 7 forums dealing with distinct area's - being the default computing term, but I take your point.

6th

faceman wrote:

i think it should be left the way it is. 440 does a great job at moderating and allows talk of all apple products which is cool.

+1

uberwolf

6th wrote:

+1

this wasn't intended as a slight on 440.

If I were new to this site, I wouldn't think to look under OS for the Apple forum. Simple as that.

faceman

^ i dont think anyone thought you were having a pop at 440.

6th

I certainly didnt think you were. I know its an issue about where the forum is housed but its got a good following where it is.

440Hz

Thanks guys, appreciate the support!

I see what you are saying about not automatically thinking to look under OS for Apple related stuff but if we had an Apple forum then you would people thinking there could be Sony forums or Dell forums etc etc.

Mac is the brand and the OS. I think it is unrealistic to have a forum for a product brand, so we extend the topics a little here to allow people to talk about both. Didn't think anyone would mind that approach tbh.

Hugh_C

Grand where it is, also has the benefit of exposing the Windows iPod owners to real computer users.

As regards the whole way of like thing, I'm having misgivings about the Starbucks/Apple hookup, as I've been muttering on about on my bleuggh:

Creamy Goodness

leave it as is, me no likey change.

440Hz

If I thought there was going to be a situation where every second thread was about an iPod or Apple TV or something I would think a subforum might be worthwhile but as things stand I think there is a nice balance of topics on here, and probably not enough traffic for a dedicated subforum, we have busy days sure but thats usually after an expo :P

Breezer

440Hz wrote:

If I thought there was going to be a situation where every second thread was about an iPod or Apple TV or something I would think a subforum might be worthwhile

If this ever does arise, please make a subforum. News feeds from Macworld and the like are getting very irritating at this stage, it's not even every second thread that's about the iPhone, it's every third or fourth that's about the Mac :eek: But for now I say leave it the way it is, it works just fine. I was a newbie once and I found it OK

weemcd

settle

440Hz

Just curious... the 7 votes for MOVE... move to where??? What changes do people want on here?

triple h

faceman wrote:

i think it should be left the way it is. 440 does a great job at moderating and allows talk of all apple products which is cool.

its nice to be able to talk about your ipod in the mac forum without half the replies goin ipods are crap or my zune is better etc etc

Enough said, faceman said it all here.

I agree that 440Hz does a fecking great job in here. I would give her moderator of the year.

440Hz also said that the mac people have never complained before. I am also puzzled, (like 440Hz is too) at the people that voted move. Do they see a problem with the way things are????

Oriel

No OS bollocks, just Tech > Apple.

440Hz

I get the point about the OS grouping, but I dont think there is any viable alternative solution, at the moment anyway. But... no point posting here about it anyway. Even if everyone agreed, its a) not my call and b)nothing I can do about it so... anyone who really thinks this forum needs a change should go and post in the forums forum.

Cabaal, as the Windows counterpart, what are your thoughts? Are things very different here? I know we discuss Apple news, products etc but certainly the keynotes are OS relevant, whatever about the gadgets...

440Hz

Ok.... after some thought, (distracted all weekend) here is what I think:

I don't think an Apple forum would work for the following reasons:

1. It would take traffic away from here and this place could get very very quiet

2. The is already a PMP forum for iPod questions/chat, a Laptop forum for Macbook/MBP buying questions etc etc. There are homes for these topics already but because they are Apple questions they never get answered there, thats why people come here.

I think having an Apple dedicated forum would be doubling up on forums that already exist, and while we all love Apple in here, I don't think we can justify claiming to be special enough to deserve a forum all to ourselves for OS and Apple general, when, like I said, these topics already come under existing forums.



It's a Catch 22... its not great to have everything bundled in here, I agree, but I dont think a dedicated forum is a)viable or b) would be granted. At the same time, I can see why people dont post about Macbooks in the laptop forum etc and why all those posts come here - makes sense unfortunately.

So... I think that if people really want to keep the OS stuff separate then something like an "Apple general" subforum in here would probably work out as the best solution.

Personally though, I'm happy with the way things are. But obviously some people are not and its the overall feeling which should be taken as the deciding factor, obviously.

Cabaal

While I get the idea behind a sub-forum, I don't think this forum has enough traffic to justify it.

whatever happens I believe everything apple should be kept to the one forum as at present there just isn't enough traffic to justify splitting this place into two or more forums.

just mho

Kinetic^

Should be put under personal issues tbh as all mac owners are touched!!!!

po0k

No more seggregation and fruitless partitioning.

You have a Mac forum.
Rejoice you shower of hapless lepers.

NullZer0

440Hz wrote:

The is already a PMP forum for iPod questions/chat, a Laptop forum for Macbook/MBP buying questions etc etc. There are homes for these topics already but because they are Apple questions they never get answered there, thats why people come here.

Makes sense to me, if we are getting traffic here it will drop for a while if this board is moved.

440Hz wrote:

I think having an Apple dedicated forum would be doubling up on forums that already exist, and while we all love Apple in here, I don't think we can justify claiming to be special enough to deserve a forum all to ourselves for OS and Apple general, when, like I said, these topics already come under existing forums.

Well isn't it all related? - I mean the iPods and iPhones run OS X (variation).

440Hz wrote:

Personally though, I'm happy with the way things are. But obviously some people are not and its the overall feeling which should be taken as the deciding factor, obviously.

It doesn't really effect my everyday life. I mean I can sleep at night, it hasn't put me off my food either

440Hz

@Kenny5, I'd prefer to be a "touched" Mac user than a troll!! Play nicely now, please!

@Syx, pity I didnt make the Galway beers on Friday, I could have spread my Mac leprosy preaching for all to enjoy hehe!!

Now, back to keeping things friendly eh!

triple h

iRock wrote:

It doesn't really effect my everyday life. I mean I can sleep at night, it hasn't put me off my food either

In fact coming in here talking about everything apple and mac is good for ones health. your questions will get answered ( mac laptop question for sure would not get answered properly in a laptop forum, as 440Gz pointed out). So one can sleep at night when their question is answered. And sometimes after hearing a steve jobs keynote there is a feeling of love with a new product and a feeling of wanting the new product, it's enough to put you off your food and give you a restless night. But to come in here after a steve jobs performance will bring one back to planet earth and will help you eat and sleep again. So we are not mac nuts.

I am trying to spread my leprosy around the place. really trying. People are listening to me and are not afraid to come up to me and hear me. Some have even rubbed shoulders with me. Nobody has caught leprosy from me yet. But i have a feeling that some may catch it ( some day) if they are not careful.

monkey tennis

SyxPak wrote:

You have a Mac forum.
Rejoice you shower of hapless lepers.

Hear hear!

Also, if this forum is to be left under OS, it should be renamed 'MacOS'.

...runs away

440Hz

With those new ringtones that you can buy on ITMS for your iPhone we will have our own little leper bells to be ringing and warning people of our presence, Mac-love is very infectious afterall.

Once you go Mac, you never go back!

Cabaal

monkey tennis wrote:

Also, if this forum is to be left under OS, it should be renamed 'MacOS'.

why not MacOSX?

po0k

Or "FreeBSD"?






soon to be MacBook owner

440Hz

SyxPak wrote:

soon to be MacBook owner

Brilliant!!! I didnt even go to the beers and my Mac-leprosy rubbed off!! Wow, what skill

Kinetic^

440Hz wrote:

@Kenny5, I'd prefer to be a "touched" Mac user than a troll!! Play nicely now, please!

Trolls get all the chicks though!!!!!

NullZer0

Kenny 5 wrote:

Trolls get all the chicks though!!!!!

Yeah, I mean... take Bill Gates for Example.

Cabaal

Kenny 5 wrote:

Trolls get all the chicks though!!!!!

yes but they live under bridges, so you loose all the chicks as soon as you show them where you live

weemcd

SyxPak wrote:

No more seggregation and fruitless partitioning.

You have a Mac forum.
Rejoice you shower of hapless lepers.

uberwolf

440Hz wrote:

Ok.... after some thought, (distracted all weekend) here is what I think:

I don't think an Apple forum would work for the following reasons:

1. It would take traffic away from here and this place could get very very quiet

It was never my idea that this forum be duplicated, I thought that this forum - given its content would be more appropriate under tech, rather than tech>os

I've seen nothing to say otherwise.

I was using apple/mac interchangeably. Although that's another example of the move that has been made by apple since this forum was instigated.

440Hz wrote:

2. The is already a PMP forum for iPod questions/chat, a Laptop forum for Macbook/MBP buying questions etc etc. There are homes for these topics already but because they are Apple questions they never get answered there, thats why people come here.

I think people should know to look here first, for every person who reposts here after failing elsewhere there may be well another who gives up. Which is unfortunate.

440Hz wrote:

I think having an Apple dedicated forum would be doubling up on forums that already exist, and while we all love Apple in here, I don't think we can justify claiming to be special enough to deserve a forum all to ourselves for OS and Apple general, when, like I said, these topics already come under existing forums.

One forum. Moved from here. Renamed, who knows.

440Hz wrote:

It's a Catch 22... its not great to have everything bundled in here, I agree, but I dont think a dedicated forum is a)viable or b) would be granted. At the same time, I can see why people dont post about Macbooks in the laptop forum etc and why all those posts come here - makes sense unfortunately.

So... I think that if people really want to keep the OS stuff separate then something like an "Apple general" subforum in here would probably work out as the best solution.

Personally though, I'm happy with the way things are. But obviously some people are not and its the overall feeling which should be taken as the deciding factor, obviously.

I don't really think the idea of a subforum is super either, and after taking a look at the content, there isn't the need for it.

The last 3 pages of threads, excluding this one, break down as follows:

OS X: 5
Apple Applications: 19
Peripherals: 2
Mac News/Gossip: 11
iPhone/iPod: 5
Hardware: 13
Other: 3


Obviously there's scope for interpretation under these headers, I think there is evidence there to support the idea. It's not as strong as I thought though.

In fairness it's current location may be impeding it's generality somewhat - no bad thing?!?

I had considered posting this idea in the forums forum. I thought that would be presumptuous without soliciting the opinion here. In saying that it's no surprise that the existing regular users are satisfied with the status quo. By definition virtually.

In framing the question more precisely, is anyone swayed? Does the content of this forum, and the wider requirement for apple discussion warrant a thread in the forums forum to gather wider opinion. To move, (and rename?) this forum to be under tech, rather than an OS subforum.

440Hz

uberwolf wrote:

It was never my idea that this forum be duplicated, I thought that this forum - given its content would be more appropriate under tech, rather than tech>os

...


One forum. Moved from here. Renamed, who knows.

So... what happens when someone has an OS question and this forum no longer exists but has been replaced by a general Apple forum. The user with a Mac OS question will be required to 'guess' that they should go to the Apple general forum, in the same way as the person with a Macbook Pro question currently 'guesses' to come here with their question.

Right now you have a choice... you can take your iPod queries to PMP or here... you can take your MBP questions to Laptops or here... in fact, the users here are happy to answer anything Mac related - a good thing I would think?

I had considered posting this idea in the forums forum. I thought that would be presumptuous without soliciting the opinion here. In saying that it's no surprise that the existing regular users are satisfied with the status quo. By definition virtually.

You have raised your opinion on the matter, and as I have said, I can see your point however in my PERSONAL opinion things are better as they are, the poll seems to reflect that others feel this too.

I have asked people higher up the boards food chain about this, and he general opinion seems to be that things are doing fine as they are.

You are perfectly entitled to look for a change, but like I said that is what the forums forum is for. I appreciate that you wanted to raise the issue here first, seeking opinions on the matter. I think that the regulars have given their opinions, if you still think things need to change here then you should take it to the appropriate forum.

Im not trying to sound like im putting your opinion down here. I understand it and I see where you are coming from. All I am saying is, you asked for opinions and the poll seems to have answered it. Noone is disagreeing with your points, I was merely pointing out that the current solution seems like the one which keeps more people happy that the potential changes which could be introduced.

uberwolf

I wasn't intending reposting in this thread, having satisfied with myself with the opinion of others. You'd a few queries in the post I quoted, so I clarified my thoughts.

I don't really think this forum is as specific as the other OS forums, due to the expansion of Apple's horizons. Most agree, but are happy with things as they are.

That's dandy.

ZENER

I recently had cause to post on the Laptops forum when a poster posted "pushing" Apple laptops instead of Wintel models in reply to a general poster. Tom Dunne - the mod - banned him and me for pushing the Apple cause in that particular case, in my opinion unjustly but I was probably a little vociferous in favor of Apple in that instance ?

Maybe there ought to be an Apple Macbook/Macbook Pro section in the Laptops forum modded by someone from here and a specific iPod vs all other media player thread on the PMP forum ?

It's a strange situation though, after all Apple has grown to encompass desktop/laptop/palmtop (iPhone, iPod Touch) devices, so where do you bracket them. Maybe a forum for Apple alone would be relevant after all ?

ZEN

440Hz

Thanks uberwolf, I do see where you are coming, and its good to make the point to see what people think about it all.

At the moment, tech mods of other forums are on the ball when it comes to Apple-related threads that don't seem to get answered in other forums are regularly moved or copied here. In fact, I posted a Cocoa related question over in Programming recently and it was copied here. Things like that, and the fact the the regulars here, me included, love talking Apple-talk mean that as you pointed out the pages here are full of very diverse topics. If there was an easy solution to keeping things tidy Im not sure moving is the solution.

Any other ideas though, maybe some kind of indication of thread topic in the title, like some other forums have... so separating topics out clearly in thread titles are something??? Dunno, thats just a random thought.

Maybe Zen's idea is a good one... Apple heads popping in to other forums more. Im regularly in PMP and Laptops anyway but don't push the Mac-line there. I dont wanna step on any mod-toes. Maybe if people thought they could get Apple help in those forums though, they might be more inclined to post there rather than here, for better or worse.

Hugh_C

ZENER wrote:

I recently had cause to post on the Laptops forum when a poster posted "pushing" Apple laptops instead of Wintel models in reply to a general poster. Tom Dunne - the mod - banned him and me for pushing the Apple cause in that particular case ...

That was probably me ZENER, yeah, what a barren wasteland Laptops is, mostly an argument about the merit/demerits of Dell products and how fast a processor you need for gaming. In my opinion Tom Dunne can be a heavy-handed mod and pretty much interprets any mention of Apple laptops as a slight on the other OS. I've been re-admitted, so I think I may slip in a little pro-Apple advocacy for the craic!

P.S.

Suggested MacBook to an undecided punter in Laptops forum. Here's Tom Dunne's response at the bottom of the thread ...

'Nuff said

babypink

hughchal wrote:

Suggested MacBook to an undecided punter in Laptops forum. Here's Tom Dunne's response at the bottom of the thread ...

'Nuff said

*hold head in hands out of despair*

[off-topic]
and people accuse us of PeeCee bashing!!! Thats just childish.....ban me i dont care.....i'd expect mods to behave in a more responsible manner. It is a laptop forum and the last time I checked Apple make laptops, though I accept the OP's budget wouldn't stretch.
[/off-topic]

ZENER

hughchal wrote:

That was probably me ZENER, yeah, what a barren wasteland Laptops is, mostly an argument about the merit/demerits of Dell products and . . . .

That settles it for me . . . if Dell get their own forum then so should Apple !! Seems fair to me ?! After all in the Media player forum you'd be shot if you mention an iPod ffs !

ZEN

triple h

I can see and understand why uberwolf started this thread.

But we have a friendly forum in here , well i reckon we do anyway. It is a nice place to come to. We talk about apple, mac, laptop, itv, iphone, ipod, all ithings and sure we even ithrash talk, but it's all fun. But serious stuff goes on in here too, questions get answered and people come in here for help.
I can't see what is wrong with the place and i would hate to see it change.
Lets hope Mr Dunnne does not get a mac and became the new mac mod. If he were to enter the world of mac he might want to be called 'Lord Dunne' or ' Master Dunne' and we would be all 'done for .....'.

440Hz

Guys just a point on this... I find it hard to see why people like Zen and hugh would need to be banned from any forum but we shouldnt really speculate about tom dunne's modding if we are not active users in that forum. I wouldnt be such a happy camper if I thought some heads were giving out about my modding over in laptops if they were not regulars, if ya get me.

I see what ye mean though, and I understand the reaction.

hughchal wrote:

Suggested MacBook to an undecided punter in Laptops forum. Here's Tom Dunne's response at the bottom of the thread ...

What were you 'warned' about before hugh? Suggesting machines outside of the price range given by the OP, or suggesting Apples?

I supported your Apple suggestion in that thread, noting that it didnt fit the OP's desired spec but also noting that it was a worthy suggestion.

Suggesting Macs as a possibility in a LAPTOPS forum should not be an issue, if indeed thats what the problem was. However, like I said, I dont know the circumstances so I cant comment on the decision.

We should keep this OT now though, what happens in Laptops should not be discussed here really. Mod toe-stepping and all that.

Hugh_C

440Hz wrote:

What were you 'warned' about before Zen? Suggesting machines outside of the price range given by the OP, or suggesting Apples?

actually it was me 440, can't remember it was months ago, but I think it was the temerity of suggesting an Apple product in that forum.