Landlord Wants to Raise Rent

Raskolnikov

Here's the scenario.

Landlord rents a 2-bedroomed apartment. A couple move in and take one of the bedrooms with the intention of sub-letting the other room out. At the time, the landlord is not aware of this. Fast forward a week, the existing couple finds another couple to share the apartment. They then go to the landlord looking for two extra sets of keys. Landlord says this is unacceptable and demands more money (despite the fact the couple have only been in the place a week).

Is the landlord entitled to ask for this increase? Can he withhold they extra set of keys from the new couple moving in? The landlord if PRTB registered, however no lease was signed.

Ste.phen

Raskolnikov wrote:

Here's the scenario.

Landlord rents a 2-bedroomed apartment. A couple move in and take one of the bedrooms with the intention of sub-letting the other room out. At the time, the landlord is not aware of this. Fast forward a week, the existing couple finds another couple to share the apartment. They then go to the landlord looking for two extra sets of keys. Landlord says this is unacceptable and demands more money (despite the fact the couple have only been in the place a week).

Is the landlord entitled to ask for this increase? Can he withhold they extra set of keys from the new couple moving in? The landlord if PRTB registered, however no lease was signed.

Without a lease it's hard to say, my understanding of it is that if you're renting the apartment (as a whole) you're free to sublet once you inform the landlord. (Check the Residential Tenancies act, i think it says something about subletting being allowed and the landlord can't refuse it unreasonably)

liberty 2007

Hi, dont know what the rules are, but i'd say it's more wear & tear on the appt. and the landlord's entitled to be concerned

stepbar

Would it not be more straight forward to get 2 sets of keys cut? (I seriously doubt the landlord has gone to the trouble of getting special keys)

Victor

Lease typically prohibit sub-leasing without permission. But you have no lease = no prohibition.

Jo King

You rented the apartment and accepted two sets of keys. You are not entitled to vary the contract by looking for extra keys. Sub-letting is not allowed without permission in residential lettings. You can assign the entire letting under the Residential Tenancies Act. At best you will have to pay for the extra keys yourself.

Raskolnikov

Victor wrote:

Lease typically prohibit sub-leasing without permission. But you have no lease = no prohibition.

There was prior verbal permission given.

Ste.phen

But you said at the time you moved in the landlord was unaware you were planning to sublet?

[edit] don't mean to accuse you of anything, i'm just not sure i understand what's going on anymore?[/edit]

TwoShedsJackson

And why do this hypothetical couple need to go to the landlord for the sets of keys, why not just go to a locksmiths themselves and say nothing?

starky

TwoShedsJackson wrote:

And why do this hypothetical couple need to go to the landlord for the sets of keys, why not just go to a locksmiths themselves and say nothing?

Most apartment blocks have security keys now, and a lock smith wont touch them with a barge pole. The only way to get copies of keys for main gates etc is with permission from the landlord and through the property management company. I suspect this may have something to do with the issuing of extra keys. This can be very expensive probably 50/100 per key, more Irish rip offs of course.

patrickolee

its not that the locksmith wont do it, its that they cant. thats the idea of security keys.

amity island

I agree with twosheds, why should they involve the LL if they're being sneaky? Over the years I got extra keys cut for The Hardwicke, Scarlet Row & Bachelor's Walk as a tenant with no difficulty.

Of course the requester/user should pay for them and liase with the management company if necessary. The full-range locksmiths in Dublin(counting on 1 hand) can and will cut security keys with little ado.


To answer original questions, yes he is entitled to increase the rent and he can keep all the keys imo.

Since no lease was signed, even the first couple have no tenure or assurance of a right to live there :eek:

Knowing the current market, this LL is playing clever and staying lightfooted so he can sell up in a hurry if he has to.

Calina

Raskolnikov wrote:

Here's the scenario.

Landlord rents a 2-bedroomed apartment. A couple move in and take one of the bedrooms with the intention of sub-letting the other room out. At the time, the landlord is not aware of this. Fast forward a week, the existing couple finds another couple to share the apartment. They then go to the landlord looking for two extra sets of keys. Landlord says this is unacceptable and demands more money (despite the fact the couple have only been in the place a week).

Is the landlord entitled to ask for this increase? Can he withhold they extra set of keys from the new couple moving in? The landlord if PRTB registered, however no lease was signed.

I see lots of bad things here and the biggest one is this: no lease was signed. You really should sign a lease and go down through the provisions in it especially to ensure that fluid situations like this do not arise. The provision regarding no subletting was struck out of my lease at my request for this reason. Even allowing for that you are slightly more protected with a lease than without.

Secondly, you say the landlord was unaware that you intended to sublet. You should have been up front about this from the start - it's a bad way to be doing business with someone and does nothing to improve the chronic lack of trust in the rental sector. In the event, he could have highlighted that he would have expected increased rent and you would not now see this situation.

TBH I would see the situation thus: you're not entitled to sublet without prior agreement which you don't appear to have had, therefore the question of whether the landlord can demand more money (in the position I think I'd request termination) should not arise. Couple taking apartment in the first place is, in my view, in the wrong.

_______________

Regards playing lightfoot - existing legislation allows for termination on either side at a months' notice to my knowledge. Not signing a lease is stupidity on the part of both landlord and tenant. Once six months pass, security of tenure comes into place, lease or no lease and the notice periods start to extend.