Abortion help

guest · 04-09-2007 3:39pm #1

Hi I would like any advice please. Me and my girlfriend are in dire straits. She just found out she's pregnant. If we were both in stable jobs with decent income we would be over the moon. The thoughts of having a family with this girl warms my heart to no end, but neither of us are currently in a position to take care of a child.

I of course said that I would support her no matter what the decision. I love her and I believe it is completely the mother's right to decide what happens with her body. I personally feel it is my responsibility to make sure that no matter what, she will be OK. I said that if she wanted to go ahead with the pregnancy, that I would get a second job if necessary. The thought of that is daunting to me, but worth it when a child and mother's welfare is at stake.

She however believes, just as I do, that we could not provide the stable upbringing every child deserves. She is about to change jobs, and doesn't think a pregnancy would allow her to keep the role (what with the probationary period when starting a new job). Plus I am on medical leave from my current role, and will probably be changing jobs soon too.

Abortion seems to be the only option. It was in my head but she was the one who said it (I just want to make clear that I wouldn't sway her decision either way). I'm terrified for her. I read up on the possible side-effects and it scares me, the thoughts of what she'll go through. In a small bit of mercy, she's 5-6 weeks pregnant, which means the abortion pill is enough to end the pregnancy (those last three words cut me deep).

I would like advice from anyone who has been through similar circumstances, or knows what is the general procedure, i.e. do we really need to see her GP first? Can he make arrangements for the appointment or do we need to do that? Several sites recommend the clinics in the Netherlands---are they right?

Any information or counsel would be very much appreciated. Sorry for the very-long post but I just needed to paint a clear picture.

SuperSean11 · 04-09-2007 3:43pm

You could put the baby up for adoption

Talliesin · 04-09-2007 3:55pm

JossisBoss wrote:

I would like advice from anyone who has been through similar circumstances, or knows what is the general procedure, i.e. do we really need to see her GP first?

The procedure will depend upon the jurisdiction that you have it done in, since different jurisdictions have different legal requirements, but will include some counselling beforehand in both.

The IFPA are probably the easiest way to arrange an abortion from Ireland these days.

As for Netherlands vs. London vs. Liverpool there are a few different factors here, including costs. I'd say you'd be better to hash it out between the two of you with help from someone from the IFPA as the information source in the conversation.

rubyred · 04-09-2007 3:55pm

Not to impose personal opinions on you - but my sister and brother-in-law are on a long long list to adopt as they have been trying for 10 years and it is their only hope. Do what is best for you and yours, but please consider putting the baby up for adoption.

If you do go ahead with the termination, make sure you both get counselling afterward cos it is an emotional thing to go through.

guest · 04-09-2007 3:56pm

SuperSean11 wrote:

You could put the baby up for adoption

I don't think we could do that SuperSean11. She'd have to go through nine months of pregnancy, of feeling the child grow inside of her---then go through a painful childbirth---and then give the child away. That would probably hurt her far more than ending the pregnancy at an early stage.

But thanks for the quick reply!

curiousxxx1 · 04-09-2007 3:56pm

OP
No one else that hasn't been in the same situation can possibly know how you feel... I do know of a girl(my best friend) and they were in the same predicament... most people have different opinions about it. But i think if you are not ready and your girlfriend is willing then she should have an abortion. If the thought of it scares you, try and seek advice... A baby is for life, 2nd job or not are you ready for this?
My friend had an abortion, and unfortunately isn't in the relationship anymore but as the saying goes "life continues"
go to your local GP and discuss this, there might be options.. adoption although is a good idea, i don't see you having the child and giving the child up....
In England there is support for it, altogether it should cost £500 or maybe more...

SuperSean11 · 04-09-2007 4:03pm

JossisBoss wrote:

I don't think we could do that SuperSean11. She'd have to go through nine months of pregnancy, of feeling the child grow inside of her---then go through a painful childbirth---and then give the child away. That would probably hurt her far more than ending the pregnancy at an early stage.

But thanks for the quick reply!

Alright well gud luck with what you decide is best

ircoha · 04-09-2007 4:03pm

JossisBoss wrote:

Hi I would like any advice please. Me and my girlfriend are in dire straits. She just found out she's pregnant. If we were both in stable jobs with decent income we would be over the moon. The thoughts of having a family with this girl warms my heart to no end, but neither of us are currently in a position to take care of a child.[ any parental support options on either side : the reason I ask is when our daughter became preggers unexpectedly, the only question we asked was 'boy or girl? it made all the difference and could do the same here.]

I of course said that I would support her no matter what the decision. I love her and I believe it is completely the mother's right to decide what happens with her body. I personally feel it is my responsibility to make sure that no matter what, she will be OK. I said that if she wanted to go ahead with the pregnancy, that I would get a second job if necessary. The thought of that is daunting to me, but worth it when a child and mother's welfare is at stake.[ Dont go OTT on this point, remember the welfare system ]

She however believes, just as I do, that we could not provide the stable upbringing every child deserves. [ why? u need to explain why a bit more: having a child is a lifestyle changing event which u can make work iff u buy into the idea; its about making choices for 3 rather than 2 or even 1,]She is about to change jobs, and doesn't think a pregnancy would allow her to keep the role (what with the probationary period when starting a new job).[ unless the role is very very specific they cannot use her condition against her.] Plus I am on medical leave from my current role, and will probably be changing jobs soon too.[ what about being a stay at home father? look up the welfare system for single parents etc]

Abortion seems to be the only option. [ I dont agree and that is not on any pro-life/church basis: there are always options: u are born and u die what happens in between is decided mainly by you ] It was in my head but she was the one who said it (I just want to make clear that I wouldn't sway her decision either way). I'm terrified for her. I read up on the possible side-effects and it scares me, the thoughts of what she'll go through. In a small bit of mercy, she's 5-6 weeks pregnant, which means the abortion pill is enough to end the pregnancy (those last three words cut me deep).

I would like advice from anyone who has been through similar circumstances, or knows what is the general procedure, i.e. do we really need to see her GP first? Can he make arrangements for the appointment or do we need to do that? Several sites recommend the clinics in the Netherlands---are they right? [ AFAIK, no posts on this forum can answer those abortion specific questions.]

Any information or counsel would be very much appreciated. Sorry for the very-long post but I just needed to paint a clear picture.

See in line above: if u go for any counselling/advice, besure u know that they are not a front for pro-life type advice: the videos they use on vunerable people are horrific.

Keep well and give our best wishes to herself.

guest · 04-09-2007 4:05pm

curiousxxx1 wrote:

OP
No one else that hasn't been in the same situation can possibly know how you feel... I do know of a girl(my best friend) and they were in the same predicament... most people have different opinions about it. But i think if you are not ready and your girlfriend is willing then she should have an abortion. If the thought of it scares you, try and seek advice... A baby is for life, 2nd job or not are you ready for this?
My friend had an abortion, and unfortunately isn't in the relationship anymore but as the saying goes "life continues"
go to your local GP and discuss this, there might be options.. adoption although is a good idea, i don't see you having the child and giving the child up....
In England there is support for it, altogether it should cost £500 or maybe more...

Thanks curiousxxx1, I'm just reading through the IFPA's site now. The cost is of no concern to me (I'm not shooting you down, I appreciate you telling me how expensive it is, I just mean it's nothing compared to my girl's happiness, well-being and health). It just seems to be very difficult to arrange it all, though my head is spinning with all of this...

bushy... · 04-09-2007 4:06pm

Abortion is a much better option in your case , I'd imagine it would be deeply upsetting to someone to find out that they were put up for adoption because work got in the way .

rubyred · 04-09-2007 4:08pm

bushy... wrote:

Abortion is a much better option in your case , I'd imagine it would be deeply upsetting to someone to find out that they were put up for adoption because work got in the way .

I'd imagine it would be slightly more upsetting to know that you had to die??? (ps. not condemning or condoning abortion - just find the above quote a bit mad)

ircoha · 04-09-2007 4:14pm

JossisBoss wrote:

I don't think we could do that SuperSean11. She'd have to go through nine months of pregnancy, of feeling the child grow inside of her---then go through a painful childbirth---and then give the child away. That would probably hurt her far more than ending the pregnancy at an early stage.

But thanks for the quick reply!

All of the above, OP, is your ideas and not your girlfriends so I am not buying into any of that line of BS

bushy... · 04-09-2007 4:16pm

rubyred wrote:

I'd imagine it would be slightly more upsetting to know that you had to die???

Doesn't make sense , there will be no "you"

Back to it : Its good to hear OP that your financial setup isn't forcing you one or the other.

Nevyn · 04-09-2007 4:18pm

Any further posts trying to persuade the op will be deemed off topic.

JossisBoss I would suggest that you both make an appointment with an options counsellor and talk about the decision.

If you both wish to proceed you will be given a referral to a clinic and a letter to state that pre counselling has been done.

What country you travel too will determine the procedures which have to be followed. You will have to arrange travel outside of the country and also maybe a place to stay over night.

If you are referred to a clinic in the uk it will be a bpas clinic.

http://www.bpas.org/

guest · 04-09-2007 4:20pm

bushy... wrote:

Abortion is a much better option in your case , I'd imagine it would be deeply upsetting to someone to find out that they were put up for adoption because work got in the way .

Work wouldn't be in the way. Low income would. This isn't a pick-and-choose situation. I value life over anything, but I know what it's like to scrape money together to survive, and it's hard. Hell, I can't afford to rent or buy, so when I say I can't afford to take good care of a child, I do so knowing full well that the life of the beautiful being that me and my girlfriend could share will perish. I do so, knowing that in the not-too-distant future, we will decide to have a child and take good care of it and be the proper, financially-stable, mature parents that the child deserves.

Make no mistake, this is killing me. But as I stated before, I firmly believe in a woman's right to govern her own body, and so even if I did believe we could nurture a child, I would not impose that belief upon her. Fortunately (if that word can be used in such grim a situation as this) we are both of the same mind, and we can take care of each other through this difficult time.

So please continue to offer advice and opinions, but my heart is breaking here, please spare me any scornful remarks that only serve to make this even more difficult than it already is.

racram · 04-09-2007 4:30pm

Positive options are good counsellors. I was in a similar situation once and went to them for advice and got good counselling and information.

SuperSean11 · 04-09-2007 5:05pm

bushy... wrote:

Abortion is a much better option in your case , I'd imagine it would be deeply upsetting to someone to find out that they were put up for adoption because work got in the way .

What kind of answer is that The child could be adopted by a family that decides not to tell the child its adopted

dudara · 04-09-2007 5:10pm

SuperSean11 wrote:

What kind of answer is that The child could be adopted by a family that decides not to tell the child its adopted

I know you mean well here, but this is a general warning to all posters to stay on topic and not get into an abortion vs adoption debate.

dudara

Nevyn · 04-09-2007 5:10pm

JossisBoss if you do terminate this pregnacny you will both grieve and that is something you have to prepare for, even if it is the right decision for the both of you and as a couple you will still have to face that process and it will crop up again if you do go in to have children.

It is part of the process no matter how right the decision is for you both in your lifes.

I wish you well and suggest that you do advial of all the support and counselling you can.

Marksie · 04-09-2007 5:32pm

Avail of the counselling advice available and think it all through clearly.

Whatever option you choose be supportive of each other and be there for each other.

Glowing · 04-09-2007 5:39pm

I know this can't be easy for you OP.

But this comes down to a simple choice - either you want the child or you don't. Money shouldn't come into it unless you're seriously strapped. You have family I suppose who will support you and love the child. You can get Social Welfare and housing benefits. You can get second hand toys and clothes. What the baby needs most is love, and you can both provide endless amounts of that free of charge.

No, its not going to be easy, but thousands of parents muddle through and are wonderful parents without steady jobs or SUV's .... Kids are extremely resiliant and can adapt to changing circumstances.

Everyone wants the idealistic 'steady job, house with garden etc' before raising a family but in reality, the right time may never come along.

How Strange · 04-09-2007 8:02pm

OP, the right decision can only be made by you and your girlfriend and if both of you feel you can't cope with a child at this point in your lives and your relationship then a termination is what you should consider.

I don't think that telling the OP that someone knows people on a waiting list fo abortion is helpful or fair. It is an emotive issue and the decision is a personal one. There is no right or wrong thing to do. *edit that should read on a list for adoption.*

curiousxxx1 · 05-09-2007 11:30am

JossisBoss wrote:

Thanks curiousxxx1, I'm just reading through the IFPA's site now. The cost is of no concern to me (I'm not shooting you down, I appreciate you telling me how expensive it is, I just mean it's nothing compared to my girl's happiness, well-being and health). It just seems to be very difficult to arrange it all, though my head is spinning with all of this...

Take your time as you she's only 6 weeks in...

Zillah · 05-09-2007 11:38am

You sound extremely level headed and mature. I think when you do have a child in future you'll make an excellent father. Congratulations on approaching such a difficult decision with a degree of sense.

Maple · 05-09-2007 5:00pm

Your GP cannot give you any information regarding abortion, it is illegal in this country for them to do so.

The Well Woman Clinic can provide information for clinics in England, you will need a letter from them to prove to the clinic that you have seen a counsellor and wish to proceed with the abortion.

Abortion costs anything from £780 to £1000 pounds depending on where in the country you go. Then you have cost of flight on top of that. As your girlfriend is so early in her pregnancy, she will not have to stay overnight so you can travel there and back in a day. She will have to be sure not to drink or eat anything from the night before if she chooses to go under general anaesthetic. She can also choose to stay awake, procedure takes about 10 minutes, i have heard that it does hurt. If she chooses anaesthetic, she will be out for about 3 hours, then they will wake her and you both will be free to go. Tell her to bring sanitary towels with her and also a nightdress, not pyjamas.

Unfortunately I do not have any information regarding abortion on the Continent.

On an emotional level, the Well Woman Clinic provide FREE pre and post abortion counselling for both male and females, you can choose to go as a couple or seperately.

While this is the best decision for you both at this time, be prepared for the emotional fall out. You will both grieve and while your heads might believe it is the best decision, your hearts will take some time to come to the same decision.

OP, I wish you the very best for the future, I truly hope that you and your partner make it through this very sad and distressing time. While it is so much easier said than done, please make your decision and stick with it, try not to torture yourselves with what ifs.

It is truly one of the hardest decisions you will ever have to make in your lives, and the sad part is that it is not a question of not loving each other enough but of it being bad timing. And while some might say that there is never a good time to have a child, there is nothing wrong with your decision, it is best for you both at this time.

Take care OP, be good to your girlfriend. The secrecy and guilt that surrounds this subject in Ireland will overwhelm you, just mind each other.

Nevyn · 05-09-2007 5:49pm

maple wrote:

Your GP cannot give you any information regarding abortion, it is illegal in this country for them to do so.

Wrong.

Everything else in your post was factual and helpful but Gps can and are permitted to give such information.

Article 40.3.3 was amended in 1992 to cover the rights to travel and information.

Information "Subsection 3 of this section shall not limit freedom to obtain or make available, in the State, subject to conditions as may be laid down by law, information relating to services lawfully available in another state."

Most gps will wish to refer patients on to the likes of the well woman clinic and the ifpa so that they can avail of the counselling process there but they are not barred from law from informing thier patients and offering referrals.

It is a very big step and a tough decision esp as you say you wish to go on to have children with each other in the future, I wish you both well.

embee · 05-09-2007 6:48pm

OP,

This is an unenviable position for you to be in. Myself and my partner have been in your exact situation this time 2 years ago. After a lot of deliberation and worry, we decided that we would keep the baby. Upon reflection it was the right decision for us, but that was our situation, our baby, and only you and your girlfriend can decide what the best outcome for you both is. On the upside, from the way that you post, you come across as very mature. You are approaching this in the right way, thinking realistically of the outcome this could have on you. If you and your girlfriend both believe that termination is the way forward for ye both, then of course ye should do what is right for ye. Thaed is right though - you will grieve for the loss of your child for some time, but good counselling both before and after the termination will help a great deal with your grief. Ye can always have a baby when timing is better. Personally, I maintain that there is never a "right" time to have a baby, but there is certainly the "best possible" time, and it seems that for you both, this is not the best possible time.

My own experience of unplanned pregnancy and motherhood is overall a positive one. When you have a baby, you just have to change the way you think, what you spend your money on, what you do with your free time. Parenthood in a way is about sacrifice and compromise to a certain extent. I found it hard to adjust initially, but I did. It is stressful and it can be hard, but for me it was worth it in the end. This could be the result for you and your girlfriend, or it could not be. I'm not trying to influence you here - just advising you on the experience from my point of view.

Best of luck in whatever decision you make.

dudara · 05-09-2007 8:03pm

Spyral banned for failing to heed warning.

PM me or another moderator to lift the ban in one week.

dudara

Maple · 06-09-2007 9:34am

Thaedydal wrote:

Wrong.

Everything else in your post was factual and helpful but Gps can and are permitted to give such information.

Article 40.3.3 was amended in 1992 to cover the rights to travel and information.

Most gps will wish to refer patients on to the likes of the well woman clinic and the ifpa so that they can avail of the counselling process there but they are not barred from law from informing thier patients and offering referrals.

It is a very big step and a tough decision esp as you say you wish to go on to have children with each other in the future, I wish you both well.

Apologies but this was was information obtained from a GP in 2006, they can inform their patient of the services provided by the Well Woman Clinic or Marie Stopes Clinic but they could not provide information / contact details for clinics in England/Continent where an abortion could be obtained.

Mr. Incognito · 06-09-2007 12:49pm

Okay,

I feel for you man. I am quite delighted this thread has not got hi-jacked by the pro-life, pro-choice lobby. I agree with you man, it's the womans choice but

Abortion seems to be the only option.

coupled with

In a small bit of mercy, she's 5-6 weeks pregnant, which means the abortion pill is enough to end the pregnancy (those last three words cut me deep).

This disturbs me. There are loads of other options. Right now, it's blind panic and worry. I've been there mate. It feels like it's happening to someone else. However you never mentioned
How old you are?

Abortion does seem like an easy option when one gets into an unplanned preganancy position. It's the big red button that brings normal pressure back to the cabin. You have mentioned reasons like job security and financial worries but the one thing you haven't mentioned is what you personally want. You have mentioned that this is the girl that you want to have kids with but not yet. Well mate, there's never a perfect time in life to have kids. There will always be work or financial constraints. You have to decide this is the best option because it is really what you want to do as you may regret it afterwards.

If abortion is what you choose then I would advise councelling. Don't brush it under the carpet. I suggest that you and your girlfriend have a heart to heart, a think and another heart to heart. I find that helps cleared my head with my missus when we were in similar circumstance.

Spicy Lauren · 06-09-2007 2:04pm

Call these people and book an appointment for you and your girlfriend to discuss your options. They are very very nice...

http://www.wellwomancentre.ie/pregnancy.html

An abortion doesnt cost as much as it has been stated in the previous comments. Manchester clinic charged us about EUR500 if I remember well, and it's a direct flight from Dublin with Ryanair.

Best of luck. Be tender to your girlfriend, whatever she decides

x

comongethappy · 07-09-2007 9:01pm

I'm very sorry to hear about your predicament

I helped one of my best friends go through an abortion. It was the right thing to do at the time, but part of her still regrets it. She is trying to get pregnant now with her new partner, but she hasn't had any luck in over 6 months time, and she's starting to worry it may be a side effect from the abortion (though it was at 19 weeks - she only first discovered she was pregnant quite late).

I know this advice probably doesn't help, but it's something to consider. I don't think risks of infertility are quite as high with the abortion pill as they are with a later term abortion, so if you do decide to, please, the sooner the better. Marie Stopes is who my friend went with (http://www.mariestopes.org.uk/ ). They have a clinic in Phibsbourgh so they can do all the medical bits such as scans, etc.

Also, as it doesn't sound as if you two are living together, your gf should be able to get financial help with the single parent's allowance / rent allowance if she does have a child. Don't get me wrong, it's still incredibly hard - but it's something to consider.

faceman · 07-09-2007 9:09pm

Thaedydal wrote:

JossisBoss I would suggest that you both make an appointment with an options counsellor and talk about the decision.

JossisBoss this is the best and only advice you should take on this matter. While we can be sympathetic to your scenario, whatever decision you make will effect you for the rest of your life and we aint qualified to offer you advice.

please follow Thaedydal's advice and skip the message boards for advice on this one other than to offer you support

Blondie86Star · 07-09-2007 9:31pm

OP, I unerstand this must be a very difficult time, but I really dont think you should rush into anything. Remember, your gf does have 21 weeks to get an abortion, but right now emotions will be all over the place,so my advice would be to take a couple of weeks to digest what has happened.

As for abortion, I have had two friends who have had them. It can have such a huge effect on a woman, because the body is in preparation for childbirth.

One of my friends went to England, the other to holland. My friend who went to the UK found her experiece "better", the other found the Dutch experience very clinical.

Good luck

Silent Grape · 08-09-2007 1:20pm

i doubt 21 weeks is the limit, then the baby would be 6 months old and alive when taken out.

as someone who is by no way well off or financially ready for a baby, ive had two miscarriages, one by rape when i was 17, and one last christmas, both were, obviousy, accidental pregnancys.

there was no way it was convenient or joyful for me to be pregnant, but those miscarriages nearly killed me, knowing there's life inside you, and knowing it died inside you. i was hating the fact i was pregnant, then when it happened, i was absolutely heartbroken. i could not stop thinking about the child that could have been, and this was a miscarriage, not a chosen deliberate act, and i was still feeling this way. think long and hard, there is a reason your gf bcame pregnant, not only until the abortion is done will she feel the emotional effects, what if she regrets it, no one regrets having a child. this is a HUGE decision, please please please talk to the right people.

you sound like such a lovely caring person, do consider keeping it, regardless of your finances, unless you're living in a box on the street, it sounds like you'd make a wonderful father.

go talk to professionals

LegacyUser · 08-09-2007 3:42pm

by reading your post it shows you are supportive of your girlfriend and love her but abortion can have alot of regrets id strongly advise against it i was 19 when i had my daughter worked in security at the time 7.65 euros an hour my now wife was 23 at time working for pitttance also so we had absolutley nothing a ****ty flat 2 ****ty jobs but if ye go ahead with it you will be surprised how well things will fall into place forget thinking about yer jobs for a minute there will be more jobs if ye love each other enough go for it because what happens if she cant have kids after her abortion in years from now ye will be saying **** what have we done <snip - dudara> millons time more important than any of yer jobs dont worry things will work out a child will give you more drive to succed im 25 now married with beautifull wife daughter and own my own house if it wasnt for her we wouldnt have what we have now if you have YOUR child you will try harder i wish ye best of luck but remember if you stop whats growing in her stomach you might not be lucky enogh to be in position your in now

Nevyn · 08-09-2007 7:39pm

Blondie86Star wrote:

OP, I unerstand this must be a very difficult time, but I really dont think you should rush into anything. Remember, your gf does have 21 weeks to get an abortion, but right now emotions will be all over the place,so my advice would be to take a couple of weeks to digest what has happened.

Honestly form a medical and a recovery point of view the soon the better
and ideally with in the first trimester.

LegacyUser · 09-09-2007 3:00pm

I have had an abortion in the past and while I know for a fact some women find it distressing and heart breaking, I did not. Not all women will be traumatised by the experience. For me, it was a sigh of relief. This was four years ago and I have no regretting it for a second since. Of course, this is not the case for all women, but don't just assume she'll crumble. You two sound level-headed and like you know what is best for you. If this is it, she'll be okay.

Someone posted infomration above and the only thing i disagree with is the price. Mine was in London and it cost £450. I received all of the necessary information from WW clinics. Talk to them. You two will make the best decision for yourselves after that.

Good luck.

pretty-in-pink · 09-09-2007 3:49pm

Its hard for anyone to realy help you decide. Its different for everyone to. I know 2 giels who have had a termination, One of them is still mssed up about it, even though it was 7 years ago. The other is fine, and it was in the last year. Whatever happens, your life will be split into "before" and "after" cause this is a life changing event. Whatever you decide to do, support eachother, and while you have yet to make a decision, talk to as many people as you can, find out what entitlements you have etc. If people give you abuse for contemplating termination, its their problem not yours. The right to travel suspercedes the righ to life of an unborn child.

best of luck at this difficult time.
xx

LegacyUser · 09-09-2007 6:51pm

pretty-in-pink wrote:

Whatever happens, your life will be split into "before" and "after" cause this is a life changing event.

I know you are trying to be helpful here, and I do think your post is supportive but this is not necessarily the case. Everyone who has an abortion doesn't have their life split into "before" and "after". As I said above, my experience was a very good one. This does not mean everyone will have a good experience, but just that everyone's is different. Not every is going to fall to pieces or have two halves to their life.

Abortion help

Comments