MEGAMERGE:Questions about careers in medicine? Post here

alanoc83

Hi Everyone,

First time starting a thread. I figured it would be the best thing to do seen as my family and my girlfriend are sick of hearing about me go on and on and trying to make a decision about the whole thing of getting into medicine! I figure getting other peoples advice on my dilemma would be a good plan!
I have an honours degree in Experimental Physics from UCD and I didn't do all that badly in it seen as i managed to wrangle myself a 2:1. My options are that I could go and spend the year either doing the leaving cert again and trying to get 600 points or do the GAMSAT's and try get in via the graduate way! The problem is is I cant decide which is the best way and the one with the higher probability of getting med!
From my understanding of it, from a financial position the grad way is more expensive at 12000E for 4 years as opposed to 5 years at approx. 8000E (UCD prices for mature EU student doing med). The problem arises when I look at what I need to do to get in!
For the leaving cert I could go and study maths, physics, applied maths, chemistry, biology and geography - all science based. In theory physics, maths and applied maths should be easy enough because of the nature of my degree and I have studied chem in leaving before and also in 1st year. Biology and geography would be new but I have heard they would be ok! Another advantage of the leaving is the fact that it is well structured and there is a clear syllabus. However, the idea of doing the leaving cert is a horrible thought and getting all A1s is a big deal no matter what my degree is in!
The GAMSAT's on the other hand aren't as long and I would be working under my own steam. But I have heard they are extremely difficult and from the sample exam and the questions I got they are really tough and random. I trip up on most of the questions in section 1 and 2 and most of the stuff in section 3 is from biology and organic chemistry which I haven't seen in a long time and a lot that I have never done before at all!
I was hoping to find more people out there that were thinking about this (if theres anyone) and to see if they have any new info that they could add or if they had any questions that maybe I could answer! Many heads are better than one! Is the GAMSAT as difficult as I have heard? Am I insane to be thinking about doing the leaving again to get it? Has anyone else thought about it?

Sorry about the long post....thanks for reading! and thanks for replyin if you do!

ella86

Hi Alan,
I was just wondering if you sat the Gamsat yesterday or have you decided to repeat your leaving cert? I sat it yesterday but obviously it's too hard to tell how it went but if it didn't go to plan I might try to do medicine as an undergraduate when they bring in the aptitude test combined with 480 points in 2009.

Chunky Monkey

Hey Ella just want to warn you that I read the other day that they are planning not to allow previous LC points from 2009 because they fear there will be too many applicants. The article was from January and it said they hadn't decided on it yet but it looked like it was going that way. Sorry I can't find the article right now.

ella86

oh my god are you serious???? I got 510 when I sat it in 2005 and thought I could just use that.... I guess it's not the end of the world, I sat the gamsat on saturday and if I didn't get it I still have next year because I'm in the third year of my degree... But thanks a million for the information, really appreciate it

Chunky Monkey

That's a really good result. Maybe they'll have a lower cut off for previous points. That would be the most fair thing. Though in all fairness if you could get that back then I'm sure getting 480+ would be a doddle for you

alanoc83

yeah i sat it on saturday. Was a bit mental wasnt it! after i posted that about the LC and the GAMSAT i ended up doin two weeks of the LC and figured the GAMSAT would be a better idea. Goin from the way college was taught to the way the leaving was taught was, eh, odd to say the least.

let me know what you thought of the exam.....dyin to hear how people got on!

Echani

Hey Chunky, did you sit the exam on Sat? I've been hearing mixed things about it.

Alan - this is a bit late, but still relevant I suppose - I'd honestly recommend the Gamsat for a few reasons. It gets you into a shorter course, slightly more expensive by your figures, but seeing as you'll be earning a year sooner you probably shouldn't consider that a decisive factor. Having done a science degree and all the basic sciences before, you'd be able to fly through the preparation once you have a good idea of what to cover if you need to resit. And if you do need to resit, you can do it again in September rather than waiting for a whole year.

Anyway, hope the exam went well for you and that the info above is unnecessary

AlanSparrowhawk

I did it on the 15th, first time. Found it incredibly difficult, definitely the toughest exam/puzzle I've ever done. I slightly underestimated the difficultly of it, I'd thought I'd be able to figure a lot of the stuff out on the day but found I had NO time to mess about. You genuinely have to be very bright and well drilled to do well in the Gamsat. I reckon I'll do it again in September if I can, the thoughts of another year to kill is .....

ella86

Hey Alan(s),
I sat it on Saturday too, I found it much tougher than I had expected. I thought the organic chemistry was much tougher than any of the acer sample papers.
I didn't like the way the English section II had two personal essays. I thought we might get one that had a little more substance (like religion vs science or something), but I guess they really wanted to test who could put up an argument and back it up effectively.
English section I was ok, although I was pushed for time at the end...
I think I'll start going over organic chemistry again for September... I hate being pessimistic

AlanSparrowhawk

I'll definitely do more OC and Chemistry in general study for the next one. I will aim to answer as many questions as possible from the book, rather than just trying to reabsorb the theory. I got some info from UL today and I just realised how regretful I am I won't be getting in next year. :(:pac:

alanoc83

cheers man, you are right about the GAMSAT vs the LC. what was i thinkin. imagine having loads of LC papers comin up now and makin one mistake in them and then messing up your chances. hope you all did well in the exam guys. best of luck with the results in may.
i dont know if any of you did the GRADMED course (i did) but i would recommend it for anyone with or without science. even try get the notes off someone. they'll prob charge you for them seen as the intensive revision course cost 1500€. but the science notes are really condensed and they do cover a lot. also, the English section of the course seemed to throw a lot of people because the guy teaching it focused on the essays and how to write one rather than section 1. but that saved me! i havent written an essay in years and i was never good at it. but he basically gave you a good formula for writing an analytical essay which i thought was awesome.
and the sample science questions were pretty good.

Piste

Hi all! I'm a fifth year student and I'm seriously thinking of studying medicine, so the work starts now! I'm not 100% convinced of it though so Id like to ask the doctors on here some questions

1. Is medicine very difficult to study?
2. Is it posible to have a social life and study Medicine?
3. Is it possible to be a doctor and stil have a social life?
4. In general, how much on-call time do you have to work?
5. Are the working conditions really dreadful?
6. What are the chances of the health service improving by the time I become a doctor?
7. (is it actually totally different to what we see on tv?)

I'm sure I'll add more questions as I think of them, I'd be very grateful if anyone could answer them

DrIndy

The answer to every question you have is yes!

I work between 60-80 hours a week - always have so don't think much of it - but it cuts into your free time.

I have great craic with my friends and do have a great social life and I love my job. Thats the key thing - it doesn't matter what you do - you have to love your job.

It can be a bit daunting to go into a career path from which people rarely end up straying from once they are drawn into it - it does best to ask other doctors and have a chat about their experiences face to face to really get an understanding.

sportswear

Is medicine very difficult to study?

it is a difficult course, relative to any other(from what i can guage based on my friends). Not very difficult to scrape by but very difficult to do well in. The actual concepts are not very difficult to grasp but there is a LOT of information.

On the plus it is very interesting. The course is leaning more and more toward clinical knowledge. Some of the stuff you learn is extremely cool, obviously this depends heavily on what you find interesting. You'd want to like your science.




Is it posible to have a social life and study Medicine?

It is possible to have an excellent social life. i find that you end up having stints of going out followed by stints of study, generally when exams are looming or on a strict rotation.

Sometimes you can go out constantly for weeks on end then you are banged up in the library for 18 hour a day for 2 or 3 weeks. Some of the study sessions that have to be done are mind bending. I'm talking serious all nighters.

all in all its a good laugh.

I think the whole thing gives you a very interesting outlook on life.

Re the Tv - ha ha not from what I can see. Certainly not as glamorous!! You don't see too many rectal exams on ER!


I'm very glad im doing it and wouldn't want to do anything else.

Chunky Monkey

See what you need to do Piste is leave all your study til the last minute in sixth year and then pull your 'serious all nighters' (surviving on coffee and liquorice toffees) to get your A's, thus preparing yourself for college.

Disclaimer: I may not be the best person to take advice from

Fair play for trying to find out what could be in store for you. You could get a part time job as a care assistant to find out what working in a hospital environment is like. Definitely try to arrange some work experience which will give you some idea of what it's like, may provide you with some motivation for your studies and, if you consider applying through UCAS, is vital.

Good luck, and with all the studying going on, don't forget to have some fun. You won't be a fifth/sixth year again

tallaght01

I think we should sticky this, so people can use it to ask questions about getting into med school, what med school entails, and what being a doc entails.

If anyone wants to start a thread about any other medical/biology professions, I'll be happy to stickie them too.

To give my answers to your questions, Piste....

I thought medicine was very hard. Not insurmountable, but I had much less free time than my friends at uni doing other degrees.

But it's definitely possible to have a social life. It's just impossible in the run up to exams. It also becomes more difficult in your latter years to go out boozing midweek, as you will usually have 9-5 commitments in hospital monday-friday during the last 2 years at least.

is it possible to be a doctor and have a social life? My social life has suffered a LOT since I graduated. I have found it very hard to combine the two, but others do, so it's not impossible. Some specialties have less time commitment, and are less physically demanding than others, though.

On-call time will be much different now than when you qualify. Soon, docs won't be allowed to work more than 48 hours a week. You'll still do a bit more than that, you just won't get paid for it. But it should help things, and will help to maintain a social life, too!

I've found the working conditions pretty dreadful, by and large. I'm not sure that changes much around the world, either, although Oz is so far not bad. But I think that working long hours in crap conditions is the big problem. If you only have to spend about 48 hours a week in crap conditions, then it will, I'm sure become more bearable.

I think it's going to take a LONG time for the health service to improve. But bear in mind that peoples's expectations change, along with improvements. In New Zealand, for eg, where things are abit better for patients, I've had parents storming out of A+E in disgust because it was going to take 2 hours for me to see their very well baby. Sick people will often be angry, and their doc/nurse is any easy target. So, regardless of how good things are in hospital, people will get annoyed at you. You just develop a thick skin.

And, no, it's nothing like TV. Us male docs are WAY hotter than Dr. McDreamy

It would be good if anyone with any future questions about careers in medicine could use this thread, so we can keep any useful advice in one place.

Thanks guys.

Aoibheann

Ok, only being in first med, I've no idea of what's coming next, but I'll answer the questions on what it's like so far!! So basically, that's the first two..

1. Is medicine very difficult to study? Difficult? I wouldn't say it is so far. For me right now, the problem is more the sheer bulk of information rather than it being anyway difficult. Then again, if you find it interesting, it's easier to learn I guess!! But I'm well aware that it will only get more difficult, I just choose to ignore that right now!! Ahh no, the more difficult stuff sounds fascinating anyway so it might make it that little bit better..

2. Is it posible to have a social life and study Medicine? In first med, definitely (I only have about 18 hours a week - let's not think about how much I'm expected to do outside that!). Actually, in my college, everyone seems to have a fantastic social life.. Work hard and play hard I guess!! I reckon it's because our social lives will suffer when we do finally get out of here, but hey, for the moment I'll enjoy it!


It's a lot of work, but it's a lot of fun so far too. If you're prepared to put the work in (going into medicine as a coaster is a shock to the system though. You cannot coast!!), it's really worth it.

Feel free to chuck any questions about course content at me too!! Oh, and put RCSI first on the CAO!

Piste

Cool thanks guys, that's made me a lot more happy now that I know I wont be spending 5/6 years with my nose in a book and no friends! Also good to know that the hours will be reduced.

Aoibheann: Yeah everyone tells me RCSI is the best, but still, Trinners for winners

Chunky Monkey

Piste wrote: »

Aoibheann: Yeah everyone tells me RCSI is the best, but still, Trinners for winners

Oh man no! Just no.

Speaking of McDreamy did anyone see that recent picture of him in The Enquirer pouring water over his head?

PS I don't read the enquirer it happened to be sitting in the staff room...honest

Piste do you think you or anyone would be interested if I posted a thread going through the UCAS application system?

Piste

Well I don't think I'd really be interested as there's no way I'm gonna spend 5/6 years studying all on my own in a foregin country! But sure there may be others who are interested so fire ahead!

tallaght01

Chunky Monkey wrote: »

Piste do you think you or anyone would be interested if I posted a thread going through the UCAS application system?

Chunky, I studied in the UK. I fwent through UCAS too long ago to be of any use to anyone now. But I know at the time it would have been useful. So post away.

Maybe try and do it in this thread,though, rather than starting a new one, just so we can keep all the medical careers info in one place, if that's ok with you.

jc2008

I'm in 3rd year now. What Leaving Cert subjects should I choose to do to do Medicine? (My favourite science is physics but I don't mind taking on more. I'm also good at languages so keeping a modern language on isn't a problem)

Also, when do you choose your specialty?

Chunky Monkey

Coolio

JC if your favourite is physics then stick with it! Then again JC physics and leaving cert is very different in terms of difficulty so see if you can borrow the textbook from a senior student to have an idea of whether you will like it or not. Make sure you do chemistry as well and pass your Irish Check out the prospectuses for special grade requirements.

Regarding the language I think I heard something recently about some of the colleges getting rid of that requirement though I'm not sure so better check it out. But if you're good at it and enjoy it then yeah you should keep that on too.

Aoibheann

Piste wrote: »

Cool thanks guys, that's made me a lot more happy now that I know I wont be spending 5/6 years with my nose in a book and no friends! Also good to know that the hours will be reduced.

Aoibheann: Yeah everyone tells me RCSI is the best, but still, Trinners for winners

I swear, get yourself to RCSI or there will be repercussions!!

jc2008

What about keeping all sciences on? Is this better than just one or two?

Chunky Monkey

Well having two will allow you to do the five year course, rather than the six year course at RCSI. Having all three will mean you can apply to Cardiff unversity.

tallaght01

Chunky Monkey wrote: »

. Having all three will mean you can apply to Cardiff unversity.

lol that's the most random piece of advice I've ever heard, chunky

seraphimvc

well ,i am here just to point out that,the most hardcore i can imagine in degree course is Theorical Physics.tbh,i dont even need to compare any science courses to med...they are just different.

imagine you are expert in chemistry,dare a general doctor challenge you in chemistry?vice versa.that's why people are called professional .

but from my point of view to med(i know lots of med friends too) ,they are rather have a broad knowledge on stuffs compare to us need to dig in a specific science hole .They have to ,cause' they are gonna be practice on patients!you have to know pretty everything related to human body but in many stuffs you dont need to go into that detail ,and that's where us science courses people kick in.

med people will spend more time on the course than us(obviously 5/6 years vs 4 years),cause' they need more time on broader knowledges(studies stuffs you get that) and practices on patient before they are 'qualified'.

so in fairness ,med people win my respect by showing me their constant effort on their course.man ,imagine many extra hours than us(we need to suffer 4 years but no matter how meds one or two year more than us).however ,that doesnt mean med course hard.while specialist of med into specific area of course is a completely different story ,definitely will salute to any ,say ,cardio/neuro surgeon when i see them:D

hope i wont see any more 'i am doing med ,we are the almighty people on earth sh!te'...maybe you can do that on art/business people ,but dont forget law/engineering/actuary etc famous hard courses .like i said courses are just different ,easy or not mainly depends on your interest and effort.any person with standard IQ will be able to do a passed degree:rolleyes:

myself have been fighting a long time for CAO to do a med or science,but finally chose my path,never regrets it:)rather than learning hell lot of names on a book in many area ,i prefer into those small mechanisms ,why/how they do in different ways etc .

ZorbaTehZ

seraphimvc wrote: »

well ,i am here just to point out that,the most hardcore i can imagine in degree course is Theorical Physics.tbh,i dont even need to compare any science courses to med...they are just different.

Yup, I've heard that TP is quite a shellshock in terms of the workload. Though, methinks that's slightly off-topic

worksucks

Hi looking for a bit of advice. I work as a physio and have done for 3 years now. I have always thought about doing medicine because I would love to be a GP.
I was just wondering if anyone knows the quickest way I could do medicine even if outside Ireland and if fees are more expensive. I wouldn't mind having less time to study etc.
It's just that I was planning to start a family in the next few years so the sooner I get the studying done the better.

charlieroot

worksucks wrote: »

Hi looking for a bit of advice. I work as a physio and have done for 3 years now. I have always thought about doing medicine because I would love to be a GP.
I was just wondering if anyone knows the quickest way I could do medicine even if outside Ireland and if fees are more expensive. I wouldn't mind having less time to study etc.
It's just that I was planning to start a family in the next few years so the sooner I get the studying done the better.

Within Ireland the quickest route for you would probably be graduate entry (RCSI and UL have courses). Its a 4 year course open to graduates (of any degree with a 2.1 or higher). Entry is based on competition in the GAMSAT exam. Fees are about 13k a year.

eth0_

There's also a heap of med schools in the UK that offer a 4 year graduate entry med course too.

ergo

the fact that you're a physio may mean you are exempt from some of the stuff like parts of the anatomy modules etc and the basic sciences, I know of a pharmacist that is doing 4 years of med in Trinity because of exemptions she was given

there's more discussion on this thread here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055216722&highlight=gp%27s on some of the issues facing GP's in Ireland in terms of training and getting from intern to qualified GP. One particular issue you should be aware of is the shortage of places for GP training (this year 363 people applied for 121 places) and also of the potential shortage of intern places given the big increase in numbers in medical schools. Having said that, if GP is your goal you will have time to tick some of the boxes during your medical studies to give you a better chance of getting into GP training. Also, by the time you graduate they may have made more places available or made training more flexible but I wouldn't hold my breath. And best of luck! The main thing is, at the end of the day you will end up doing something you enjoy.

worksucks

Thanks a mill for your help

Chunky Monkey

Just one thing to note as well, if you're planning on doing the GEP, apparently it's a lot more intensive than the undergraduate courses and there's more weeks in the year so you may find it hard to start a family during the course. Then again I've talked to people who have done it though probably need a good bit of support from the hubby

Chunky Monkey

tallaght01 wrote: »

lol that's the most random piece of advice I've ever heard, chunky

Haha well it was the only reason I could think of, during the application process at least, that you would need all three

I've no idea what Cardiff university is like though.

Chunky Monkey

There are a lot of things to take into consideration if you are thinking of applying to study medicine in the UK. First off the application process is quite different.

This is done through UCAS: www.ucas.co.uk

The deadline for applying (for medicine, dentistry and veterinary courses) is around mid October for entry for the following year ie for 2009 entry, the deadline will be mid October 2008.

You will be given five choices. Only four of these may be used for medicine courses. The fifth one can be used for any other course. The colleges you apply to will not know what your other choices are unless you have applied to them for more than one course.

Not all colleges will accept the leaving cert. None of the London colleges do except Kings College and even there you have to apply to the six year course which includes a foundation year. The last time I checked (almost three years ago) there were only 24 places for this year most of which were given to students from disadvantaged areas.

Admissions Tests

A lot of colleges expect you take an admissions test. The UKCAT (UK Clinical Admissions Test) is one. It includes five sections: verbal reasoning, numerical reasoning, abstract reasoning, decision analysis, and non-cognitive analysis (the so-called 'personality' section). However this year the abstract reasoning and non cognitive section results were discarded and there are rumours going around that the test may be scrapped altogether. Go on to http://www.ukcat.ac.uk/ to find out more.

Some colleges, including Cambridge and Oxford, require you to take the BMAT (Biomedical Admissions test) which apparently is harder and includes a science based section in addition to the aptitude tests. This is required for some veterinary courses as well. Go on to http://www.bmat.org.uk/index.html for more info.

There is also the GAMSAT (Graduate Australian Medical Admissions Test) which is a test used by many (though not all) colleges for entry on to graduate courses and is also used by some colleges for students who have been out of school for two or more years. Check http://www.gamsat-ie.org/index.php and college prospectuses.

Grades

Predicted grades are required, so better get on your teachers' good side In addition to this you have to write a personal statement and one of your teachers has to provide a reference.

The grade requirement differs at each university and can range from (for the LC) AAABB for Peninsula Medical School in Devon to AAAAAA for places like Cambridge, Oxford, Birmingham, Edinburgh etc. Check http://search.ucas.co.uk/cgi-bin/hsrun/search/search/StateId/D-JnB39OWEIL_Os-bk5BDolDTGRvG-3o_c/HAHTpage/search.HsKeywordSuggestion.whereNext?query=427&word=MEDICINE&single=Y for specific grade and subject requirements.

A lot of colleges won't accept repeat students unless you went through 'mitigating circumstances' such as the death of someone close to you or a long term illness. Even then they usually accept only straight As at the second sitting. However there are some who will consider repeats regardless. Most will mention it in their prospectuses or on the UCAS site.

Personal Statement

This is the most important essay I have ever written. It can only be about an A4 page long but there are many things that can be included.

Work experience is necessary. The admissions staff like to see that you have gone to the trouble to find out a bit about the career you wish to embark on. If you have connections in a hospital, use them. Try to get some time shadowing a junior doctor or in theatre. Additionally you could try to get work as a care assistant. That way you will learn how to communicate with patients and will get an idea of what it's like to work in a health care environment. Alternatively you could work as a cleaner, porter, as part of the catering staff etc but don't forget not to let your part time job take over your studies.

Voluntary work is also recommended. It will show admissions staff that you are willing to give up some of your spare time in order to help those in need. In the UK now a lot of emphasis is being put on doctors being caring, dedicated and having good communication skills.

In your personal statement, you can't just list what you have done. You need to be able to talk about what you have learned from your experience.

Reference

This needs to be written by someone (not a relative or friend) who knows you fairly well and is included with your application. Basically they have to say how great you are. I asked my career guidance counsellor at school to write mine as she had a record of all my academic achievements and knew me better than the other teachers. She even included things that I had forgotten about.

If you are still at school, your UCAS application will be done through your school. Your referee will send your reference along with the rest of your application. If you are an external candidate (ie not at school) you can add the reference yourself to your application, providing details of your referee in case the college wishes to contact them to verify.

Interview

UCAS will send your application to the colleges you have applied to. They will consider your application and you may be invited to an interview. Most colleges interview for medicine courses (Southampton doesn't, I haven't heard of any other colleges who don't, but don't take my word for it). Depending on the college you have applied to and the strength of your application you could be invited for interview from as early as November to as late as April. There's bundles of advice on the internet and in books on what to wear, what to say and even how to position your hands. One thing I will say though is try not to be so nervous that you'll squeak or so confident that you'll come across as arrogant. Just try to be yourself as this is what the interviewers want to see.

Different colleges have different interview processes. There are a few internet forums where people applying, current students and past students discuss these such as www.newmediamedicine.net and www.admissionsforum.net. I found it invaluable as it can be a bit daunting applying through a completely different system in a different country.

Course Types

Different colleges offer different styles of teaching. Some, like Cambridge, Oxford etc, have 'traditional style' courses which are mainly lecture and subject based (ie you learn your anatomy, physiology, biochemistry etc separately).

Others, such as University of Glasgow, Peninsula Medical School, University of East Anglia, Hull York Medical School etc, offer problem based learning courses. These types of courses differ again depending on the college. PMS have a self directed style course where most of your learning is done in small groups. Students work together on a clinical example and a lot of time is given in your timetable for your own study. HYMS have a more guided course where more strict objectives are given.

Many PBL courses are systems based (ie rather than studying each subject separately you learn them together as you go through the different human body systems such the circulatory system, nervous system etc) though the two are not necessarily synonymous with each other.

Some colleges offer an 'integrated' course (such as Manchester University and I think Liverpool) which is a combination of lectures and PBL tutorials.

Another thing you may want to consider are clinical placements. Some colleges have placements (in the community and hospital) from the first year. Other courses are split into pre-clinical and clinical years such as Cambridge where the first three years are spent purely on lectures, labs, dissections etc and the next three are spent on placement.

Not all colleges use dissections to teach anatomy. Places such as PMS and Edinburgh, use plastic models and 3D anatomy atlases instead.

Tuition Fees

Unfortunately, unlike Ireland, you have to pay tuition fees in order to study in the UK. However there is the option of taking out a student loan which you don't have to pay back until you are earning over £15,000. For 2008/09, in England, the annual fee for first time undergraduate courses is £3,145 (I think this is regardless of age) which has gone up by approximately £100 from last year. The fees are a bit less in Wales and I think there aren't any in Scotland though this may have changed. For graduate courses the fees are about £12,000 per year. Check http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/EducationAndLearning/UniversityAndHigherEducation/StudentFinance/StudentsFromOtherEUCountries/index.htm for details.

If you have any questions feel free to PM me

tallaght01

Thabks for making the effoort to post that very useful info chunky. I'd give u thanks X 100 if I could.

Guys, I've merged a few threads asking about careers in medicine here. In future, I'll put them all in here, as I think it would be more useful to have all the resources in one sticky, rather than losing all the info when the thread stops getting posts. It all got a bit messy when I tried to merge the threads. There were afew hairy moments when I thought some posts were lost forever. So, I think everything is back to where it's supposed to be. But I'm abit of a mong when it comes to computers, so let me know if there are any problems with the merge.

LIke I said before, if any of the scientists or other healthcare workers out there want to start a thread about careers in their area, just post it up, and I'll be more than happy to sticky it.

worksucks

Hi I actually did my Physio degree in UK and had to pay tuition fees but couldn't get a student loan because I was not from UK so the great student loans idea in the UK is out the window for most Irish people I had to get my loans with AIB so bear that in mind.

Chunky Monkey

worksucks wrote: »

Hi I actually did my Physio degree in UK and had to pay tuition fees but couldn't get a student loan because I was not from UK so the great student loans idea in the UK is out the window for most Irish people I had to get my loans with AIB so bear that in mind.

:(:mad: No don't say that!! Maybe it was different when you did your degree (though I thought they only brought in fees two years ago?). If you look at that link I posted for the direct.gov.uk site you'll see that tuition fee loans are available to all EU students regardless of whether they're from the UK or not. I've sent an email enquiring about the maintenance loan but haven't got any word back yet.

Anyway, as far as I know, they aren't allowed to do that as a member of the EU.

tallaght01

we were in the EU when I was studying in the UK, and I didn't get a student loan. I'm still paying back the bank for my time at uni! It ain't pretty.

Got free fees though.

Chunky Monkey

That makes you a lot younger than I thought you were old man (kidding)

From: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/EducationAndLearning/UniversityAndHigherEducation/StudentFinance/StudentsFromOtherEUCountries/DG_10035220

If you are an EU student starting a new full-time course in England, Northern Ireland or Wales, or continuing on a course which began after September 2006, you can take out a Student Loan for Tuition Fees to cover the full amount of your tuition fees.

^In case anyone else got a scare like me

jc2008

Is that true that if you do two sciences the RCSI course only takes 5 years?

Does it matter which two you take on?

Aoibheann

From the qualifax website: "Five Year Programme
Students may be eligible for entry to the five year programme with two sciences. Applicants must obtain a minimum of six subjects, which must include Irish, English, Mathematics, a second language and a minimum of grade B in higher level Chemistry and Physics or Biology."

So you have to do Chemistry anyway, and choose between the other two!

Winning Hand

As someone currently in a residency in the US I thought it was time I added to this medical board some tips and advice for anyone interested in taking the plunge across the pond for postgraduate training.

For anyone who wishes to practice independently in the US you must be board certified. By and large the only way one can be board certified is by completing a residency in the relevant field (there are a few rare exceptions). A residency is the training period that doctors commence once finishing medical school, unlike our system of doing an internship prior to commencement of a training scheme. Depending on the specialty it varies from 3-7years. After completion of a residency the option is to begin as an attending (consultant) or to continue in a fellowship (further subspecialty training 1-2yrs). One may enter a fellowship without having completed a residency, a path that many doctors take from Ireland after completing their sho/registrar years. Doing so is increasingly the few ways to advance in the irish system. Again it is worth mentioning that without a residency you cannot stay and practice in the US. You can enter a residency at any age or level of training, however your prior experience will count for little from timeframe point of view.

The first step in applying for a residency (or a fellowship for that matter) is to become ECFMG certified. The ECFMG acts as the central office for all international applicants. www.ecfmg.org

Becoming ecfmg certified is actually a pretty straightforward process, albeit one loaded with paperwork and expense. For certification on must first have to submit documents to certify ones attendance, past or present, at a medical school licenced by faimir. All irish schools are so listed. Next one must complete Step 1, Step 2 CK and Step 2 CS of the USMLE within seven years. Once this is completed you are ecfmg certified and may apply for residencies in the US.

The USMLE

The USMLE are a sequence of standardised tests that all US medical students must take prior to graduation from medical school. Step 1 is usually taken by US med students after their second year and is preclinical in its content. Step 2 is broken into two different exams. The CK is a clinical knowledge exam and like step 1 is computer based and can be taken in Ireland. The CS is a clinical skills exam and must be taken at certain testing centers in the US.

Step 1 is a preclinical exam testing anatomy, physiology, pathology, pharmacology, biochemistry, behavioural science. The best time to take this if you are still in med school is immediately after finishing preclinical years. This is because this test can test minutae of preclinical fields which is very difficult to go back over. It is important to iterate the importance of getting a high score in step one as it is the main screening tools that programs use in screening applicants each year for residencies, in particular for international applicants.

Step 2 CK is a clinical knowledge exam which when compared to step one is a far easier exam. The content is stuff that is largely covered by our own med school training and should pose little difficulty to anyone who is well read and prepared for our own exams. In addition it is not used as a screening tool to nearly the same extent as step one by programs as most US med students do not take this exam until after applying and interviewing for residencies.

The CS is a clinical skills assessment (referred in the past as the CSA). In the past only internationals had to take this exam but now everyone has to take it. It is a one day exam set in a ‘clinic’ setting. This is a pain in the ass only because it is expensive, requires travel to the states to take the exam and untoward stress. It really is probably the easiest to pass and is only pass/fail.

Step 3 is taken when you are in a residency and it is to complete your medical licence.

Applying to residency

The first step in applying for a residency is determining what you wish to do. Unlike our system, most residencies are categorical (same institute for length of training) so once you have secured a residency you are set for the length of your training. The fields are varied – Internal Medicine, General Surgery, Pathology, OB/GYN, Dermatology, Radiology, Urology, Plastic Surgery, Anesthesia, Family Medicine, Neurology, Ophthalmology, Orthopedics, Pediatrics, Psychiatry, ENT. Most of these are applied for throught the ERAS http://www.aamc.org/students/eras/

Application season tends to open August/September with interviews running from Nov to Jan. After interview season the programs and the applicants rank their programs by order of preference called ‘the match’. Match day occurs usually in the middle of march at which time you find out if you have matched to a program.

A full application usually consists of 3 Letters of Recommendation; these can be from faculty at home or preferably from rotations in the US which carry more weight, your med school transcript, a ‘deans letter’, your usmle scores and your personal statement. The ecfmg again acts as the liason office for all these documents and transmitting them to desired programs

Tips for Success

1. Take your steps in medical school. Far easier to do it at the time you are studying than afterwards when you are an intern/sho and studing for the memberships etc.
2. Ace the USMLE if you have aspirations of applying to a competitive specialty or wish to go to a top institute
3. Take rotations in the US if you have the opportunity as you would get letters of rec from us attendings.
4. Try to get some research while in med school, publish if you can. Again this applies more to the more competitive specialties.


Visas

Unless you are a US citizen or Green Card holder applicants basically have 2 options for visas. J1 visas are the most common and easiest to get. The catch is when you have finished your training you must return to Ireland for 2 years before you can apply for a permenant residency visa. There are ways around this requirement, involving either working for the VA (Veterns Administration) or working in an underserved area for a period of time 3-5 years. Another option is a H1B visa which allows you to apply for residency at completion of residency, however spots are limited, you must take step 3 prior to application and not many hospitals support them.

In my later posts I will talk about the pros/cons of the US system and answer any other questions people may have.

ZorbaTehZ

Excellent post, this was something I was actually going to make a thread to ask about. I've heard the usmle is a real bitch for non-US students though. Can I ask where you went to med-school?

tallaght01

Great post. I'll add it to our stickied thread about medical career advice. hope that's OK.

Winning Hand

ZorbaTehZ wrote: »

Excellent post, this was something I was actually going to make a thread to ask about. I've heard the usmle is a real bitch for non-US students though. Can I ask where you went to med-school?

UCC Grad. Step 1 of the usmle was a real bitch only because I put huge pressure on myself to do well. As long as you prep really well for it as it is very different to any exams we do through med school you should do fine

Kwekubo

Some more concrete details have been announced on the new admissions exam for medicine applicants; it's to be called the Health Professions Admissions Test - Ireland (HPAT), and from what I can make out it will be given a value of 300 CAO points. A Leaving Cert minimum of 480 points will apply for medicine, and the LC results for medicine applicants will be adjusted so that little extra benefit is gained from scoring more than 550 points (max points will be 560). Both HPAT and LC results will then be added together to give a final mark.

Fairly radical changes I'm sure you'll agree. It'll all depend on the nature of the test and at what level it is pitched, but going by the results from tests like BMAT, I think it could really level the playing field.

EDIT: full info at http://www.tcd.ie/Admissions/undergraduate/assets/pdfs/Medical%20entry%20for%202009.pdf. Extra info for A-level applicants to TCD:http://www.tcd.ie/Admissions/undergraduate/assets/pdfs/Medical%20entry%20for%20A%20Level%20Applicants%202009.pdf

deevey

(1)I was wondering is it possible for a filipino doctor to get a work here straight out of internship ?

(2)Is it possible for her to apply as an intern and do her final year here ? (its a 2 year internship) or better to finish it there, seeing as she's already doing work in the OR after a few months, and it seems hard enough to get that far here.

If anyone has any ideas or knows of anyone thats done it, it'd be great.

laters

Kavinsky

I have a Level 8 Honours B.Sc. Degree (2.1) and am thinking about applying for entry to graduate medicine commencing in September 2009. According to some of the individual websites (RCSI, UCC, etc) I still have to sit the GAMSAT and entry is solely based on the results, but on the CAO's website it says I should apply through CAO (course code GM001). My questions are:

1) Is this new HPAT-Ireland test only applicable to Leaving Cert students/etc. (non-graduates basically)

2) Would I still have to sit the GAMSAT ?

2) Is the course preference decided randomly or would I have any input at some point of the application process as I would prefer RCSI/UCD for personal reasons.

Thanks ! :pac: