Operation AEG's across the border

gandalf

Ok as we all know thanks to the VCRA we will not be able to transport our AEG's or GBB's after the 1st of October. With this in mind I am heading up on either the 15th or 16th of September to Predator for some skirmish goodness. I know that the 16th is a definate walk on day and I have emailed the lads in Predator about the 15th as that would suit me far better as its a Saturday.

I know Lemming is in and I may have one other coming with me as well. So who's in, who want to infiltrate the border (so to speak).....

I will update on the exact date when I have confirmation from our Northern Cousins.

Shiva

gandalf wrote:

Ok as we all know thanks to the VCRA we will not be able to transport our AEG's or GBB's after the 1st of October. With this in mind I am heading up on either the 15th or 16th of September to Predator for some skirmish goodness. I know that the 16th is a definate walk on day and I have emailed the lads in Predator about the 15th as that would suit me far better as its a Saturday.

I know Lemming is in and I may have one other coming with me as well. So who's in, who want to infiltrate the border (so to speak).....

I will update on the exact date when I have confirmation from our Northern Cousins.

I'm in, and I'll drive too. So I'll have room for at least 3 people, 4 if my mate doesnt come.

CrazyRabbit

Would be nice alright to go back up to Pred before the law changes.

My bike just isn't suitable for such a long journey though.

Shiva

CrazyRabbit wrote:

Would be nice alright to go back up to Pred before the law changes.

My bike just isn't suitable for such a long journey though.

You're near Dublin 11/15, yeah ?
I'll give you a lift if this gets off the ground.

CrazyRabbit

Shiva wrote:

You're near Dublin 11/15, yeah ?
I'll give you a lift if this gets off the ground.

Cool thanks. I'm in Castleknock/Blanchardstown. Only a short train journey to your area.

Shiva

CrazyRabbit wrote:

Cool thanks. I'm in Castleknock/Blanchardstown. Only a short train journey to your area.

We'll sort something out ...but if my mate is going, I'll probably be collecting the lazy bugger in Blanchardstown, so I can meet you somewhere.

Boston

Is that one other me? Cause I'm well up for this, as is my mate. Does preditor do rentals (guns may not have arrived by then)

Evolute

ill have to get back to you on this as i do not know what i will be working although ill try to get it off as i am in dire need of a trip to pred

Evolute

ill have to get back to you on this as i do not know what i will be working although ill try to get it off as i am in dire need of a trip to pred

liamo333

Count me in:D

gandalf

Well I will have one other place in the car maybe 2. Lemming is coming with me and maybe a mate (if he gets wife clearance!).

I'm definately heading it just depends on whether its the 15th or 16th. Still awaiting a response from Predator.

Dar

Since I've never been up to predator, I suppose I better get up there while I can bring my own gear. Count me in.

davvowl

im down for that ! by then ill have received all my shiz, woot

anybody got a lift ?

nonex

VCRA will not aficked us to transport our AEG's or GBB's or play airsoft in the uk after the 1st of October.if you are a member of an airsoft site in ireland and have a membership card.

Hivemind187

nonex wrote:

VCRA will not aficked us to transport our AEG's or GBB's or play airsoft in the uk after the 1st of October.if you are a member of an airsoft site in ireland and have a membership card.

Cool, why not?

Boston

nonex wrote:

VCRA will not aficked us to transport our AEG's or GBB's or play airsoft in the uk after the 1st of October.if you are a member of an airsoft site in ireland and have a membership card.

Erm, Do you want some help setting this up? It would be a very simply matter for me to add a registration form with a database back end to your site to facilitate this. I could even set it up so people could upload a photocopy of a passport or Garda ID. Once registered it would be a simple matter to print off a card per person for a nominal fee (say 2 euro) in fact, if you liked I could probably get reeds to do up the cards for free if you didn't mind advertising on the back.

nonex

Hivemind187 wrote:

Cool, why not?

it's to do with tourism and tade in the uk

cherubaul

nonex wrote:

VCRA will not aficked us to transport our AEG's or GBB's or play airsoft in the uk after the 1st of October.if you are a member of an airsoft site in ireland and have a membership card.

NONEX youre the best :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

Hivemind187

nonex wrote:

it's to do with tourism and tade in the uk

Can you PM me the details of this, I want to be absolutely certain of what you are refering to.

Seriously if you have found an out you are an absolute star.

Boston

Isnt the problem that no site currently does this?

kdouglas

well, even if we can still go across after the vcra comes into play that's excellent, but we should go ahead with this trip anyway cos I've yet to play in predator!!!

Anyway, i can go and can take 3 or 4 people with me

kdouglas

Boston wrote:

Isnt the problem that no site currently does this?

im sure nonex wouldnt mind giving us membership cards

Boston

Kdouglas, where yea located?

Hivemind187

Boston wrote:

Isnt the problem that no site currently does this?

Legally there is no specific requirement to do this yet so there is no impetus for operators to do it.

kdouglas

Boston wrote:

Kdouglas, where yea located?

southside (crumlin)

o1s1n

kdouglas wrote:

Anyway, i can go and can take 3 or 4 people with me

me me me me!!!

liamo333

Me 2!:D!:D

CrazyRabbit

nonex wrote:

it's to do with tourism and tade in the uk

I think I see your point. Since we would officially be tourists, we are not actually importing anything, merely bringing items on vacation with us (with every intention of bringing them back).

I guess to import, we would have to have a permanent private or commercial address in the UK.

Might be covered in the same way that you can import items without paying tax so long as they are exported again within a set time period and not sold within the country. Both UK and Ireland have similar laws regarding that.

Interesting....

Oh and FYI, that's just my opinion. I'm not stating absolute facts.

kdouglas

boston, o1s1n, liamo: ill reserve a place for each of you if you want to meet me in city centre

liamo333

Great:D

Hivemind187

CrazyRabbit wrote:

I think I see your point. Since we would officially be tourists, we are not actually importing anything, merely bringing items on vacation with us (with every intention of bringing them back).

I guess to import, we would have to have a permanent private or commercial address in the UK.

Might be covered in the same way that you can import items without paying tax so long as they are exported again within a set time period and not sold within the country. Both UK and Ireland have similar laws regarding that.

Interesting....

Oh and FYI, that's just my opinion. I'm not stating absolute facts.

As much as I wish that were the case it doesnt work. Think about it, if you were to enter the UK with dope in your pocket coming from, say, Amsterdam where its legal you would still be done for importing an illegal substance and possession of an illegal substance.

Same thing will apply to airsoft.

Lemming

Hivemind187 wrote:

As much as I wish that were the case it doesnt work. Think about it, if you were to enter the UK with dope in your pocket coming from, say, Amsterdam where its legal you would still be done for importing an illegal substance and possession of an illegal substance.

Same thing will apply to airsoft.

True, but lets compare like with like here. The importation of drugs into a country is usually not for it to be passed on to another country, but as an end-point for it to be used, thus an import.

Someone going to another country, buying an AEG and bringing it back would be importing since it'd be destined to reside in the UK (in this instance), whereas I think nonex's point is that this would not be the case and thus isn't an import as such. If that were the case, people would be getting slapped for customs & excise charges on everything they bring between flights into and outside of Europe (to pick an obvious and somewhat contrived example)

Hivemind187

Lemming wrote:

True, but lets compare like with like here. The importation of drugs into a country is usually not for it to be passed on to another country, but as an end-point for it to be used, thus an import.

Someone going to another country, buying an AEG and bringing it back would be importing since it'd be destined to reside in the UK (in this instance), whereas I think nonex's point is that this would not be the case and thus isn't an import as such. If that were the case, people would be getting slapped for customs & excise charges on everything they bring between flights into and outside of Europe (to pick an obvious and somewhat contrived example)

Its a sticky one isnt it?

It all depends on how they look at it. Personally I want to hear back from the UKARA and UKAGB before I am going to make a statement either way.

Although I really hope ye' are right.

Lemming

Hivemind187 wrote:

Its a sticky one isnt it?

It all depends on how they look at it. Personally I want to hear back from the UKARA and UKAGB before I am going to make a statement either way.

Although I really hope ye' are right.

You, me, and a whole load of other people will be hoping on that too!

As a note, might be an idea to let frenchie from Arnies/ASI/UKARA know about this thread and the point that nonex raised. Whilst the wording of the VCRA is as is, the spirit in which it was created was, I suspect, not meant to curtail movement of AEGs and the like, but rather to stop the import (as in bringing in on a permanent basis) of such kit by undesirable elements.

ASI Casper

http://www.airsoftcommunity.co.uk/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=114384&view=findpost&p=1060208

nonex wrote:

VCRA will not aficked us to transport our AEG's or GBB's or play airsoft in the uk after the 1st of October.if you are a member of an airsoft site in ireland and have a membership card.

Who were you talking to about this Nonex?
As to my knowledge, the database / membership scheme doesn't currently extend to non-UK nationals.

chalky

Anyway, back on topic,
Hopefully should be able to go,
Might even be able to bring one or two people with me.

nonex

this is the info posted to me from psni and they say you will need a 'sponsor' as in an airsoft site in Northern Ireland to get a Visitors permit.

Non-GB residents visiting or transiting through Northern Ireland
Non GB visitors wishing to bring firearms into Northern Ireland to either shoot or transit through must have an application for a Visitors firearm's permit (Form 30/38) submitted on their behalf by a 'sponsor' who must be a resident of Northern Ireland. The application must be accompanied by a copy of the domestic firearms permit for the firearm intended to be held in Northern Ireland and in case of nationals from the European Union the original European Firearms Pass (EFP). The possession of a Northern Ireland visitor's firearm permit does not allow possession or use of your firearm in any other part of the UK.



Visiting or leaving Northern Ireland

Northern Ireland Firearms Legislation
Firearms legislation in Northern Ireland is different than that of Great Britain so if you intend to visit or transit through or leave Northern Ireland and you have your firearms with you there are certain regulations that you will be required to comply with. The following paragraphs and matrix will provide you with guidance on the requirements for correct documentation and information on the procedures that are likely to be applied depending on your mode of transport.


GB residents visiting or transiting through Northern Ireland
GB residents (including Channel Islands and The Isle of Man) are required to apply for a Northern Ireland Certificate of Approval (Form 30/15) if they wish to travel to or through Northern Ireland while in possession of their firearms. The application must be accompanied by a full copy of a valid GB firearm certificate which includes the firearms you intend to bring with you. It must therefore be the firearm certificate, the shotgun certificate or the co-terminus certificate. Please note that in Northern Ireland firearms also include airguns and your application must include such firearms even though these are not required to be recorded on a GB certificate. There is no charge for a COA but applications should be submitted at least 4 weeks before the expected date of arrival in Northern Ireland.


Non-GB residents visiting or transiting through Northern Ireland
Non GB visitors wishing to bring firearms into Northern Ireland to either shoot or transit through must have an application for a Visitors firearm's permit (Form 30/38) submitted on their behalf by a 'sponsor' who must be a resident of Northern Ireland. The application must be accompanied by a copy of the domestic firearms permit for the firearm intended to be held in Northern Ireland and in case of nationals from the European Union the original European Firearms Pass (EFP). The possession of a Northern Ireland visitor's firearm permit does not allow possession or use of your firearm in any other part of the UK.

The cost for an individual Northern Ireland Visitors Permit is £12 (sterling), however for a group application for six or more persons (but no more than 20) the fee is £60 (sterling). Application must be received at least 6 weeks before the expected date of arrival in Northern Ireland.


Northern Ireland residents visiting or transiting through GB
A Northern Ireland firearm certificate is valid in GB and no other document is required. There is however a ban on handguns in GB and to comply with GB firearms law you must have permission from the Secretary of State at the Home Office or Scottish Ministers, if you wish to bring a handgun into the relevant part of GB. If you are transiting through GB to another country then it is likely that you may require a European Firearms Pass and visitor's authority in the country you are visiting.


European Firearms Pass
Citizens of the European Union may hold a European Firearms Pass, which facilitates travel with listed firearms through EU Countries; however, a European Firearms Pass alone is not accepted in GB or Northern Ireland. It is, however required in support of an application for a Northern Ireland visitor's firearm permit. Northern Ireland residents can apply for a European Firearms Pass by completing (Form 30/34). There is no fee for a EFP.


Travel to Northern Ireland by air via GB
If you are travelling to Northern Ireland and use a connecting flight from the same GB airport on the same day your airline should deliver your firearms to HM Revenue and Customs and the UK domestic airline should collect from Revenue and Customs. Only on arrival in Northern Ireland will the firearms be returned to you.

If you do not intend to travel to Northern Ireland on the same day arrangements will have to be made with HM Revenue and Customs to store the firearms otherwise you will have to comply with GB legislation for possession and use of your firearms in GB.


Travel to Northern Ireland by land via GB
If you travel through GB by land to get to Northern Ireland you will require a GB visitor's permit for transit GB as well as a Northern Ireland visitors permit. If you are unable to secure a GB visitors permit (you will require a GB sponsor for this) the firearms may be transported by an Agent (courier service) to the address in Northern Ireland where the firearms will be securely held during your stay. This will have to be after your arrival so that you may personally and legally take possession.


Ferry companies and Airlines
Apart from the requirements to comply with the firearms legislation of the jurisdiction to which you are travelling, the ferry company or airline that you are travelling with will have its own rules and regulations for the carriage of firearms and ammunition. You are advised to consult with the company when making your travel arrangements.


Travel scenarios
The travel matrix produced is a guide to the documents you may require when travelling with firearms through different jurisdictions. It should be read as a guide only and not a definitive interpretation of non-Northern Ireland legislation.



USEFUL CONTACTS

HM Customs & Excise
(General Helpline)
Tel: +44 845010 9000
http://www.hmce.gov.uk/

Department of Trade& Industry
Import Licensing Branch
Tel: +44 1642 364 333
Fax: +44 1642 364269
E-mail:ilb@dti.gsi.gov.uk
Web:www.dti.gov.uk

Boston

Kdouglas, cool, thanks. I can even meet in crumlin if thats any help.

Nonex, are AEGs classed as firearms up north?

Also could someone confirm that Predator do rentals? Just in case my stuff ain't here by then.

liamo333

Yep they do. But you might need to book.

Boston

I'll give them a call, their very slow with the auld email.

N.O.I.P.

AEGs aren't considered firearms in NI and won't be even after the VCR comes into effect, I think the only way we could be sure about transportation is to either register with Predator (or one of the other NI sites) or wait until we here back from the UKASGB. Its a bit of a quandary but hopfully it'll be sorted out fairly quickly

ASI Casper

Boston wrote:

I'll give them a call, their very slow with the auld email.

Emailing them is probably the worst way to get in contact with them. A post on their sub-forum on ASI or a PM is usually best.

But if you need to rent a gun, phoning is always essential anyway as they only take bookings for rentals by phone anyway.

o1s1n

Looks like there's a freed up seat in your car Kdouglas. I just dislocated my knee cap pretty badly. So won't be able to go near a skirmish site for quite some time.

Damn it! :mad:

liamo333

:eek: Get well soon m8. I you die can I have the FN?

Hivemind187

liamo333 wrote:

:eek: Get well soon m8. I you die can I have the FN?

Feck off, I have dibs

liamo333

I'll fight ya for it.

o1s1n

Hah! I'm burying that thing with me, sorry lads.

liamo333

*Goes and gets shovel*

gandalf

Ouch Oisin sorry to hear that. Looks like Sat 15th is the day, just waiting for confirmation on this.

ED E

*Goes and gets cyanide and shovel.

Evolute

kdouglas wrote:

well, even if we can still go across after the vcra comes into play that's excellent, but we should go ahead with this trip anyway cos I've yet to play in predator!!!

Anyway, i can go and can take 3 or 4 people with me

Hehe shotgun if i can make it lol