Lasers/pointer/legality

bewildered

Ok, I apologise in advance. Im sure this has been dealt with and outlined clearly somewhere, I just have been unable to find it.

I have read in a few threads that the addition of lasers to airsoft equipment is illegal, as it classes it as a firearm or something. However, I have noticed also on several threads that some peoples kit has what looks to me like a laser. Now, is this the case that I am mis-interpreting the term laser, and these are laser-pointers, which are legal, and that a "laser" in the conventional term is something else, or are these accesories purely non-functional and for aesthetics. By lasers I would think of the small tube shaped object with a wire attached to a pressure spot on the grip on a pistol or rifle.

Having talked to a few airsofters they seem to be of mixed knowledge, some claiming that they are downright illegal, and some saying there's nay bother. I'd prefer to err on the side of caution, but still curiosity has me asking questions.

As I said, I apologise if I'm asking the same question asked a week ago, and likewise if it's somewhere in the stickies. As I said I glanced through them all and didn't find anything. Maybe it's just late and I'm tired.

Cheers.

o1s1n

The law covering this is badly written. It's not very black and white. Therefore, I'm erring on the side of caution with this one and asking people to try not to mention it here.

There's a good bit of discussion about it in this thread

http://www-srv-3.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055097704&page=2

Have a read from post 37 on.

kdouglas

not sure if it's in the stickies or not (o1s1n??), but this has come up several times before, i believe the approximate wording of the law is that if it is a sighting/laser device that is designed to be attached to a firearm, then it is illegal.

Now you can say that a cheapo $30 sight/laser is designed for airsoft and not a real firearm, but it is possible to attach it to a real firearm since they have the same size rails.

Edit: beaten to it by o1s1n

o1s1n

kdouglas wrote:

not sure if it's in the stickies or not (o1s1n??),n

To be honest I thought it was a small enough thing as to not really need a sticky post.

It would seem people really want to mount lasers on things though. (Why, I don't know? :eek:) So something will have to be done. Even if it's just a link to that thread I posted up.

bewildered

Hmm. Thanks for the link. Been reading through them.

Just out of curiosity, does that mean that were I to go to my local Gardai station and show it to them, explain the situation, I could apply for permission to use one?

I'm not trying to find a gap here, I'm genuinely curious that it hasn't been tied up. Something as simple as a laser dot would surely be the least of the problems concerning the campaign to legalise airsofting in Ireland. Maybe that's why it hasn't been dealt with.

Nalced_irl

That was something i was wondering too. I did read it was illegal but wondered why. Didnt have to ask and got it answered

o1s1n

bewildered wrote:

Something as simple as a laser dot would surely be the least of the problems concerning the campaign to legalise airsofting in Ireland. Maybe that's why it hasn't been dealt with.

Exactly. Its such a small thing in comparison to some of the other issues that I really don't know why anyone would care all that much. Laser pointers are not an important part of airsoft. They're not really needed at all.

Spitfire666

some people like the idea of them because they can look cool.
i don't get that a laser pointer mounted to an airsoft gun can be illegal when the laser pointer itself isn't. if its the mounting part well then by that, every add on such as stocks and grips and such would be illegal.

I'm not going to give my personal view on it as it may look bad on boards and can't be arsed defending it.

tonyj_mc

some people like the idea of them because they can look cool.
i don't get that a laser pointer mounted to an airsoft gun can be illegal when the laser pointer itself isn't. if its the mounting part well then by that, every add on such as stocks and grips and such would be illegal.

I'm not going to give my personal view on it as it may look bad on boards and can't be arsed defending it.

thought the sam thing, but laser (or is light beems) are mentioned specifically in the legislatio, have to agree with oisin though best air on the side of caution.

bullets

bewildered wrote:

I have read in a few threads that the addition of lasers to airsoft equipment is illegal, as it classes it as a firearm or something. However, I have noticed also on several threads that some peoples kit has what looks to me like a laser. Now, is this the case that I am mis-interpreting the term laser, and these are laser-pointers, which are legal, and that a "laser" in the conventional term is something else, or are these accesories purely non-functional and for aesthetics. By lasers I would think of the small tube shaped object with a wire attached to a pressure spot on the grip on a pistol or rifle.

Howdy,

The Firearms Act states "telescope sights with light beam."

The Firearms act does not mention Laser sights or Laser pointers.
A laser pointer or laser sight designed to be fitted to either an AEG or real
firearm is not a Telecope/Telescopic sight. Therefore does not
fall under any of the catogorys mentioned in the firearms act for
component part.

But that only my opinion from reading the act.

I would like to have one for the coolness factor. They probably
would not be allowed in CQB or Skirmishes as they could cause eye
damage if ya get a blast of Laser light in the eye.

~B

Rew

The general interprtaion of that section is laser dot sights that are designed to be mounted on a firearm. It is written badly but so is most of the law.

The key bit is "designed to be fitted to a firearm" as opposed to "fitted to a firearm".

If you go down the Garda station and ask questions about airsoft they will probably stare at you blanlky. There not trained on the finer points of firearms law. If you want a clear answere then ring/write to the Dept of Justice.

On the general subject of laser pointers on airsoft guns. I think there a very bad idea. Flashing a laser in someones eys is classed as assuault if they choose to push the law. Tactically they work both ways so give away you position, indicate that your coming around a corner etc.

THe main use of them by mil/law enforece ment is to intimidate sombody and indicate to them that they dont have a chance if they make a dodgy move. The mil use infared ones at night that are invisible to the naked eye and only seen through NV.

Hivemind187

The only reason to use a laser on an airsoft is if you cant shoot straight.

My advice is use the money you would have spent on the laser and buy BB's, use those BB's to improve your aim and snap fire. You'll be better off.

bewildered

I think the main advantage for them tactically is the quick sighting of a target. They are usually activated by a small button on the handgrip, so you only turn it on for the second you need to before the shot. I would have thought it useful for CQB just simply for the fact that you dont have to actually bring the gun to bear and sight with it, as you can just use the spot of the laser. All in all, it might drop the time it takes to aim by a few miliseconds, but in CQB every milisecond counts.

All that aside, from what you guys have said it would seem best not to push it. Obviously if a guard finds you with an AEG on your back a small laser pointer wont be the thing that shocks him, but still, if you get a guard who wants a reason, you've given it to him.

Dont suppose it would be an idea to add something about this to the newbie thread in the equipment section?



(Oh and a small aside, shining a small laser pointer into someones eyes causes very minimal if any damage. In order to actually do any significant damage, firstly the laser must be over 5mw, and second, it has to be continiously held at the persons eye. A quick flash as it passes through your goggles will have no lasting effect)

Rew

bewildered wrote:

I think the main advantage for them tactically is the quick sighting of a target. They are usually activated by a small button on the handgrip, so you only turn it on for the second you need to before the shot. I would have thought it useful for CQB just simply for the fact that you dont have to actually bring the gun to bear and sight with it, as you can just use the spot of the laser. All in all, it might drop the time it takes to aim by a few miliseconds, but in CQB every milisecond counts.

I know how they work. In CQB if you cannt hit them without it then good luck hitting anything. If you have a second to think about turning on your laser, aiming with it etc then your probably already been shot. Your better devloping your snap shooting and instinctive aiming.

Fallschirmjager

well can i give my tuppence worth....

i have red dots at home and indeed a green laser...but obviously i dont use the laser because its (IMHO) against the law or rather dodgy in the law and i dont want a new guy from templemore reading me my rights, opening the boot of my car and crapping himself thinking he just stopped an international gun cartel on his own only to find out hours later i am just some sad old git with plastic aegs...

so here is the thing...(meant in a light hearted way)

red dots just about make sense...scopes dont, you could just be as effective using a friggen wavin pipe nailed to the top of your aeg for gods sake and this is from someone who has them (scopes that is not wavin pipes). jeasus we can only shoot a 100 yards or so...now i know your mothers love ye, but looking at ye scruffy bunch of knackers thru a scope 4 times your normal size is not my idea of fun...:D

i want one because its furniture on my aeg...the green laser because i can see the beam, not the most efficient thing to do for a sniper or when you are hiding in my opinion!! so i think we are getting our respective panties in a bunch about nothing...i also have a 9v swat torch, what in the name of good christ am i going to use that for? its furniture.

a laser is something pretty, as are the large scopes. dont get me wrong, i know why people want them...but i think getting all huffy and throwing our toys out of the pram over this is not the best way to utilise our resources..we would be better served directing our panty bunching at other issues IMHO. also a few people here said its dodgy, now we are all adults (well except ambro and davowl, they are french so we have to cut them some slack) so in the words of the film, choose but choose wisely...me i am not going to risk a laser causing me problems...and indeed potentially causing airsoft some problems in ireland..

again each to their own...this is just my opinion...and yes i know i am no brad pitt either...so i will save you the time writing that

bullets

Another alternative is just use a Red Dot scope.
I recently got the tubeless design one for my AUG.

Cheap ebay buy at 30 USD and the thing does not have an on/off switch
its supposed to goto power saving mode in the dark with the cover on but it does not
as you can see the red glow from under the cover at night.

It one cool piece of kit. You look through the piece of glass with both eyes open
and focus on the target but not the actual dot itself. Lovely bit of kit.

~B

Fallschirmjager

Rew wrote:

I know how they work. In CQB if you cannt hit them without it then good luck hitting anything. If you have a second to think about turning on your laser, aiming with it etc then your probably already been shot. Your better devloping your snap shooting and instinctive aiming.

and that is exactly what i was trying to say only, er much better...and without my waffle...

Rew

The reflex style scopes are pretty good. No maginfaction means target acquisition is fast and field of view isnt limited as well as being able to keep both eyes open. Alot of them are amber to giver better contrast in low light conditions.

The idea of attaching all this crap to your rifle coz it looks good is a bit mad. It adds weight with no function therefore impeading you ability to preform ina tactical situation.

ambro25

Fallschirmjager wrote:

also a few people here said its dodgy, now we are all adults (well except ambro and davowl, they are french so we have to cut them some slack)

[fighting talk]

Don't need yer slack, you ate enough of my BBs already last time we were at Paul's

[/fighting talk]

...[fighting walk on Saturday]

Fallschirmjager

ambro25 wrote:

[fighting talk]

Don't need yer slack, you ate enough of my BBs already last time we were at Paul's

[/fighting talk]

...[fighting walk on Saturday]

just making sure you are reading all of these...LOL!!!!

Spitfire666

Rew wrote:

The reflex style scopes are pretty good. No maginfaction means target acquisition is fast and field of view isnt limited as well as being able to keep both eyes open. Alot of them are amber to giver better contrast in low light conditions.

The idea of attaching all this crap to your rifle coz it looks good is a bit mad. It adds weight with no function therefore impeading you ability to preform ina tactical situation.

Its airsoft, you die and respawn, its not life or death we are dealing with.
If we were to go by that logic then why bother with a metal bodied gun over a plastic one or a big aeg over a smaller light one as for the most part they all shoot the same.

Looks is important in the game too, otherwise people wouldnt mind even if the guns were clear plastic like the canadians

bewildered

Spitfire666 wrote:

Looks is important in the game too, otherwise people wouldnt mind even if the guns were clear plastic like the canadians

*shivers*

Canadians do a helluva lot of things right (traffic/crime control/accents/not being america) but airsoft design is not one of them.

Rew

Spitfire666 wrote:

Its airsoft, you die and respawn, its not life or death we are dealing with.
If we were to go by that logic then why bother with a metal bodied gun over a plastic one or a big aeg over a smaller light one as for the most part they all shoot the same.

Looks is important in the game too, otherwise people wouldnt mind even if the guns were clear plastic like the canadians

Metal body etc serves a purpose, makes the AEGs robust and powerfull. Yes you die and respawn but you wont win if you keep dieing and that is the aim of the game right?

Theres a pic around some where of an M4 with every possible attachment on it. It sums up how over the top you can go.

MaxForce

bewildered wrote:

*shivers*

Canadians do a helluva lot of things right (traffic/crime control/accents/not being america) but airsoft design is not one of them.

There is a thread over on ASI of a bunch of Canadians playing airsoft. None of thier guns are see through though. I did ask the question why but they never replied. They are well kitted out though. Looked for the post there this morning but could not find it.

Another reason for using a scope or dot sight on your AEG would be to compensate for your sight. My MP5 shoots high and to the left. Have cleaned the barrel, adjusted the hop up and all but it still does it. I use the scope and dot sight to compensate for this as the sights are fixed.

Genghiz Cohen

MaxForce wrote:

Another reason for using a scope or dot sight on your AEG would be to compensate for your sight. My MP5 shoots high and to the left. Have cleaned the barrel, adjusted the hop up and all but it still does it. I use the scope and dot sight to compensate for this as the sights are fixed.

Agreed, my g36 shoots to the right, didnt bother taking it apart as i might make it worse, RDS makes things easier.

Genghiz Cohen

MaxForce wrote:

Another reason for using a scope or dot sight on your AEG would be to compensate for your sight. My MP5 shoots high and to the left. Have cleaned the barrel, adjusted the hop up and all but it still does it. I use the scope and dot sight to compensate for this as the sights are fixed.

Agreed, my g36 shoots to the right, didnt bother taking it apart as i might make it worse, RDS makes things easier.

NakedDex

Spitfire666 wrote:

Looks is important in the game too, otherwise people wouldnt mind even if the guns were clear plastic like the canadians

I'm not sure where that myth surfaced from but I know a fair few canadians who airsoft and they all use regular aegs. The only difference is that their laws state you can't import any of the equipment unless you're a registered retailers. Similar, but more strict than the VCR act. They don't even require the blaze orange tips.


I had a laser fitted on my g36 for a while, I did it more because I had access to the laser modules and a way to hide it in the foregrip as if it wasn't there but I never found any real use for it. It already has a scope and I'm practiced enough now to know what direction I'm aiming even if I'm hip shooting. Sure it might not be as accurate as if I had the laser still operational, but realistically it's only of use for hip shooting/panic firing. And really if you've been reduced to that then you've probably been hit already.
Lasers make sense on RS guns because of the distance to achievable point target is considerably further and an indication of the expected impact point is desireable. Even then they have limited use. Hollywood just stick them on everything because 10 men running into a smoke filled room with lasers flying everywhere looks cool.
Remember they work both ways too. If you can paint them, they can see the origin.

As Fall said, it's a preference thing for furniture. If you like the look of it being on there then fair enough but make I'd advise making it a dummy. The law is funny on lasers, technically anything above 1mW is illegal but that would render theodilites (surveying equipment) illegal so they changed it to something along the lines (the exact phrase escapes me) of "weapon mountable", which is technically any laser from a .5mW presentation pointer to an industrial cutting laser.

I'll stop ranting in a second, but I want to end with this. I took mine out because I rememberd something fundamental. BB's travel in arcs, lasers travel in straight lines. BB's are subject to wind, lasers are not.

Spitfire666

most people use clone aegs where the metal isnt all that strong.
Also, alot of good aeg's that come in abs, have abs bodies that are very strong anyway. if you were to drop it it wouldnt break anyway.