Looking to start some IT development

ROS123

I work for a small health agency. We have a small IT dept, 3 people, mgr, networks guy and a training guy. We would like to begin some devlopment inhouse, around SQL, .net, web (MS). Don't know where to start, I would like to get a jack of all' but saw some other posts which frowned upon this approach. We however can't go out and hire 2-3 people, not sure if we can even get 1 full time. This is the crux of the problem, we would like to get someone with some experience that would be prepared to grow and learn as the role develops. I had talked to a couple of colleges in April hoping to get a student for the summer, no replies. I have talked to agencies but agency fees are too high, also because of our own lack of experience, afraid we will get burned, could get burned with this approach as well. However there seem to be a few experienced guys on here who might share the benefit of their experience. Hope this makes some sense !!!

AARRRGH

Does it have to be .NET?

Roughly what salary are you talking about?

Where in Ireland are you?

Kali

"Don't know where to start"

That's going to be a bit of a problem then. First off what application(s) are you looking at developing? Are these requirements drawn up properly or will the person hired being making the decisions on dev. environments/languages/backend databases etc.? Just be wary of hiring a one-trick pony (i.e. someone who only knows VB and bends everything around that).

As far as college placement programmes go, try and talk to them this side of Christmas, as most students will have already been placed by April, i's way too late at that stage. It's a good way to go, there are a lot of talented software engineering students out there who are keen to get stuck into something substantial as opposed to the usual qa/testing roles. I'd reccomend you contact the DCU Intra office.

nesf

ROS123 wrote:

Don't know where to start, I would like to get a jack of all' but saw some other posts which frowned upon this approach. We however can't go out and hire 2-3 people, not sure if we can even get 1 full time.

This is a reality for small to medium firms to be honest. Some people criticise it but there's often no other way to do IT for some companies. Fully staffed and specialised IT departments are a luxury.

leeroybrown

On the subject of student internships - there are a lot of good people out there (and equally many duds) but I would be very wary of using a placement student in a situation where there is no one knowledgeable there to mentor them. Without proper structure and guidance there is a decent chance that you'll end up with 6 months plus of bin-worthy work or worse still work that should be dumped but can't be for political/financial reasons. Conversely, a situation where there is proper software engineering, guidance and review in place could yield some very good results.

In a properly managed university placement system I reckon that a request for a student in the above situation should be rejected due to the lack of (the very necessary) mentoring but I've seen worse being allowed through purely to make up the numbers.

I've been in a position where I've worked for technically clueless people doing badly specified ad-hoc work where only only the development time and on screen output had any relevance. On a personal level they were very nice people but in no way competent in the management of even the most basic software activities. It was my first graduate job and quite frankly the valuable lesson I learned is that I should have given my notice and walked after two months rather than nine. It's a situation I'll never expose myself to again.

BostonB

I have to put my hand up and say I'm one of those jack of all trades people. The best way IMO to deal with people like me is. (in brief) Set them a small project to do, say over a weekend/week, a proof of concept project, then get a very experienced, developer/analyst to do a code review and review of the project. It becomes clear very fast if someone is good or bad, but also if you can work with them, and if the person communicates well etc. It can't be too much work as asking people to work for free is taking the...

Once you found someone. I don't think on a limited budget I would be rushing to hire someone permanently. Software development can be a money pit, if the projects are mis managed. I think I would be thinking along the lines of identifying distinct projects that fill a need, with clear objectives. You could identify these with a quick study on value gained vs cost to achieve for potential projects. You could outsource some initial short projects to freelance contractors, students etc, perhaps 2~4 weeks per project and see whats achieved both by the contractor and also by your project management. Test the water so to speak.

I like Joels "Guerrilla Guide to Interviewing"
http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000073.html
It is aimed at a software house rather than what we are talking about here. But it might give you some ideas.

fatboypee

One way through this may be contact your local FAS office about the graduates from their software development course. You can take one of them on while they're doing their course and offer employment if they're good enough at the end.. A company I was contracting for took on 5 like this with the promise of a job for one of them at the end.....

Sadly, they were fairly unscrupulous and got all the work for next to nothing and nobody got a job... but I saw some real potential in some of those guys, especially the ones who were re-training...

I would echo other posters on this thread tho, know what you want to do thoroughly, know what you need and be prepared to manage this person. Otherwise it could go very wrong.

FBP.

amen

have you thought about contracting out the work to a small IT development shop? they might be able to do the work quicker and cheaper than you hiring someone.

Are there any products already available that you could use instead of developing your own in house?

Kernel32

As an experience developer and someone who has worked in software development management I would strongly advise againist hiring someone green or with little experience. I echo what leeroybrown is saying. It is unfair to the new hire and will ultimately be bad for you. Even if you think you are managing them well, they have no one to guide them or mentor them in their profession.

What will happen is that they will at first appear to create some good work because all you see is the surface. It will be sparkly and wonderful, pleasing to the eye. Then as time goes on and it gets used there will be a constant code and fix cycle as he/she tries to hold it together. Eventually they will leave having gained experience. You will then be forced to bring in an experienced person to support the existing work. That person will take one look at it and recoile in horror. They will either leave fairly quickly, suggest a complete rewrite or patch it back together, stay for a while and leave shortly after once they think it won't look too bad on their CV.

So my advice is hire someone well experienced, both technically and if possible with business domain knowledge in your area. Or outsource it, and do your homework on who you outsource too. Cheaper is rarely better.

ROS123

Wow !!! As many opinions as there are posters, all valid in their own way. No wonder I am in the predicament I am in. I have over 20 years experience in operations and mangement, unfortunately not on current development platforms. (Cobol and CICS, long time ago) The job would be in the east midlands, about 30 miles from Dublin, which I think is an attractive location for someone commuting into Dublin. I have some specific projects in mind, I mention SQL and .net because of existing infrastructure and advice already sought.

I am particularly mindful of the lack of mentoring mentioned by some of you but weigh that up against the opportunity for a person with some experience. I am leaning towards the option of having someone do some work part time and assessing the quality and effectivenes of the work completed.

I am extremely gratfull for your opinions and find this a very useful exercise. It is difficult to find this information if one is outside the loop.

BostonB

ROS123 wrote:

.... I am leaning towards the option of having someone do some work part time and assessing the quality and effectiveness of the work completed...

I think that would be a good way to test the waters.

Ginger

Kernel32 wrote:

What will happen is that they will at first appear to create some good work because all you see is the surface. It will be sparkly and wonderful, pleasing to the eye. Then as time goes on and it gets used there will be a constant code and fix cycle as he/she tries to hold it together. Eventually they will leave having gained experience. You will then be forced to bring in an experienced person to support the existing work. That person will take one look at it and recoile in horror. They will either leave fairly quickly, suggest a complete rewrite or patch it back together, stay for a while and leave shortly after once they think it won't look too bad on their CV.

QFT... That is what happened me. Home from a year abroad, got offered a job doing .NET (or so I was told) but had to do a month of Access dev. Spent so much time patching, fixing other peoples loopholes, oversights and general bad coding that I couldnt do any proper development. After 12 months I had to leave!

The main problem was that it worked on the surface but if you poked it, it just fell apart. Management thought it was fine, until I started showing them the issues.

Please dont fall into that trap!

seamus

I would recommend organising some sort of contract with a professional company for doing your inhouse dev. You basically sign a contract stating that only they can do development for you for the period of the contract, and in return you get cheaper development time and ongoing support.

Both sides benefit - you get a company who may have a team of developers, specialising in different areas (so you get the best guy for the job, depending on the app) and assuming that you know what kind of dev you're looking for, the company is guaranteed a revenue stream from you.

It may theoretically work out that little bit more expensive, but assuming that the company are good, you're guaranteed high-quality, fully documented and supported apps, not something that works well for a while, then falls over when the developer leaves and takes all his knowledge with im.