Mass or Electric picnic

Tim Robbins

Hi,
I remember watching a video of James Randi and he said he never drunk or took drugs. He said he wanted to experience the world for what it really was, whether it be good, bad or boring. I really respected that and it's something I try to do, although I like a few beers occasionaly.

Now, I have been roped into going to electric picnic this week.
I like music, but for me all, this event is just a expensive type of p*ss up. I think if you took away the drink very few people would go. What does this say? Drink is just another crutch, just like religion. Both help people deal with insecurities.

Looking at it rationally, and not being young anymore, electric picnic has very little appeal to me. There are some tents there with some debates on but I reckon they'll be like the Joe Duffy phone show.

At least Mass is free, you don't have to get sloshed and you can get home pretty easily. You also get some uplifting music and some ancient literature read by an "expert" in the field. If you have a decent Priest / Minister you might even get a thought provoking ceremony.
Electric Picnic, is 220 euro for a ticket and all things counted will cost 500. A few ego musicians (who also avoid rational critism) have their ego pumped up more and you will more than likely end up with a major hang over.

So what would you prefer?

cavedave

I am going to Sunday mass with the Warlords of Pez at noon at the electric picnic.

this event is just a expensive type of p*ss up

Well I am going for the music.

Tim Robbins

Electric Picnic

cavedave wrote:

I am going to Sunday mass with the Warlords of Pez at noon at the electric picnic.

Well I am going for the music.

Interesting.
If they took away the drink would you go?
Would you imagine many people would go if there was absolutely no drink at it?

5uspect

I don't drink, but I would still go to the Electric Picnic.
Can't stand mass...

Dave!

ehh... Electric Picnic for me if I had to choose, but I'm not really interested in either.

I would still go to Electric Picnic if there was no drink. I'd say most people would, depending on the bands that were playing (I don't know who's playing).

I don't see how Irish people's relationship with alcohol has to do with religion, or atheism.

Zillah

Tim Robbins wrote:

I think if you took away the drink very few people would go. What does this say? Drink is just another crutch, just like religion. Both help people deal with insecurities.

People-who-can't-follow-a-logical-train-of-thought-say-what?


I think drink is great fun. I like having fun. Therefore, if I persue this sort of fun it is a crutch that I am using to cover my insecurities.

Like, do I actually need to explain why this makes no sense?

cavedave

If they took away the drink would you go?
Would you imagine many people would go if there was absolutely no drink at it?

On general libertarian grounds probably not. You can pry my beer from my cold dead hands.

Seriously though I regulary go to concerts sober and it is fine, I may not even drink this weekend.

What is the point of this thread? Music and dancing is the opiate of the masses? Are the fences there to keep them out or us in?

PDN

I'd rather be grated and rolled in salt than to go to either mass or the Electric picnic.

JC 2K3

€500? How?

You're saying you'd spend €200+ on alcohol for a weekend?

In any case, you shouldn't judge things on their monetary value.

Sonic Youth, The Stooges and a handful of other good bands are playing EP, granted I'd never go to an Irish festival personally(overpriced, too short, lineups are usually better abroad), but were I to go, alcohol would definately not be the main focus. Sure, I'd drink when no bands I liked were playing and I just wanted to relax with my friends, but a music festival weekend for me is by no means primarily a piss-up.

JC 2K3

Tim Robbins wrote:

I remember watching a video of James Randi and he said he never drunk or took drugs. He said he wanted to experience the world for what it really was, whether it be good, bad or boring. I really respected that and it's something I try to do, although I like a few beers occasionaly.

What's the big deal about sobriety?

When he says he wants to experience the world for what it really is he really means he wants to experience the world from the default state of mind we're born with for some arbitrary reason.

The world has drugs in it. I'd argue that one would be missing out on a massive part of what the world and life has to offer if they didn't ever take drugs.

MooseJam

Electric Picnic

220 yoyos is a fierce price, no way would I pay that for a couple of days of music

Dades

PDN wrote:

I'd rather be grated and rolled in salt than to go to either mass or the Electric picnic.

Ouch.

Fanny Cradock

MooseJam wrote:

220 yoyos is a fierce price, no way would I pay that for a couple of days of music

You are too young anyway.


Anywho, not being Catholic, I'll have to say the Electric picnic. Roll on Friday!

Pompey Magnus

If you have no interest in either then I would go to mass, switch the brain off for 30 mins, and work out how you will best spend the money you are saving.

But I would just have a lie in on the Sunday, much better option.

By the way, who pays a fiver for in the collection plate? Even back when I was a believer I found it hard to part with 1 euro, any note was out of the question.

Dave!

A 5er? I'd regularly see 20s in there! And on Christmas there'd be a few 50s!!!

Where do you live that €5 is a novel amount of money?

Galvasean

I have work. Hear that God!!!! I am collecting st...

*gets smithed*

Scofflaw

PDN wrote:

I'd rather be grated and rolled in salt than to go to either mass or the Electric picnic.

Ah, the classic trilemma. Bet you wouldn't really, though.

cordially,
Scofflaw

PDN

Scofflaw wrote:

Ah, the classic trilemma. Bet you wouldn't really, though.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Well, I might opt for the mass if I was allowed to get drunk first.

Attractive Nun

Me loves drinking and music.

Me can't afford Electric Picnic.

Me can afford drinking in a house and listening to music.

Pompey Magnus

DaveMcG wrote:

A 5er? I'd regularly see 20s in there! And on Christmas there'd be a few 50s!!!

Where do you live that €5 is a novel amount of money?

50 euros? That must be from people who only go to mass once a year on Christmas and average out 1 euro per week over a year and put it all in on one go.

Off topic but I do love the way the monthly envelopes for my local church (I don't know if everywhere has it) have the names of the parishoners on it. It's like saying "We will know how much money you put in this so be generous." It would work just as well anonymously but you just don't get the fear of being seen as cheap that way. Brilliant.

Scofflaw

PDN wrote:

Well, I might opt for the mass if I was allowed to get drunk first.

I'll go with you in that case. Do you heckle?

cordially,
Scofflaw

Pinker

Hey man, dont take life so seriously, maybe i am mistaken but you sound quite serious, yes the human relationship with alcohol has its downsides, but so can our relationship with food, I love the atmosphere at the EP, due to some injuries i have i might not make this one but its a great time to sink a few beers meet loads of randomers and have an excellent weekend of music, comedy and maybe even some lurrve...we'll both be dead soon enough and for long enough...
Angels fly because they take themselves lightly....

lostexpectation

Tim Robbins wrote:

Hi,
I remember watching a video of James Randi and he said he never drunk or took drugs. He said he wanted to experience the world for what it really was, whether it be good, bad or boring. I really respected that and it's something I try to do, although I like a few beers occasionaly.

Now, I have been roped into going to electric picnic this week.
I like music, but for me all, this event is just a expensive type of p*ss up. I think if you took away the drink very few people would go. What does this say? Drink is just another crutch, just like religion. Both help people deal with insecurities.

Looking at it rationally, and not being young anymore, electric picnic has very little appeal to me. There are some tents there with some debates on but I reckon they'll be like the Joe Duffy phone show.

At least Mass is free, you don't have to get sloshed and you can get home pretty easily. You also get some uplifting music and some ancient literature read by an "expert" in the field. If you have a decent Priest / Minister you might even get a thought provoking ceremony.
Electric Picnic, is 220 euro for a ticket and all things counted will cost 500. A few ego musicians (who also avoid rational critism) have their ego pumped up more and you will more than likely end up with a major hang over.

So what would you prefer?

what age are you TR?

PDN

Depeche_Mode wrote:

Off topic but I do love the way the monthly envelopes for my local church (I don't know if everywhere has it) have the names of the parishoners on it. It's like saying "We will know how much money you put in this so be generous." It would work just as well anonymously but you just don't get the fear of being seen as cheap that way. Brilliant.

It may be for tax purposes. All donations to churches that are registered as charities can be classed as tax deductible expenses. Self employed donors therefore pay less tax at year end, but for PAYE donors the charity can claim a tax rebate directly back from the Revenue Commissioners. However, for this to operate, the charity (church) must be able to state that a particular taxpayer has given how much, hence the names on envelopes.

MoominPapa

I was at ep last year and I seriously doubt Randi would be able to handle face the reality of the portaloos without some form of chemically induced mind bending. And anyway people who advocate the "I want to take reality as it, good, bad or indifferent" need to have a look at Nietzches life, 40 years of loneliness followed by ten years, gibbering, in the nut house.
Is that what you want? Well is it?
And he was german, german beer is some of the best in the world, mental.

Seriously Tim, its your shout, make mine a double:D

Tim Robbins

Electric Picnic

MoominPapa wrote:

I was at ep last year and I seriously doubt Randi would be able to handle face the reality of the portaloos without some form of chemically induced mind bending. And anyway people who advocate the "I want to take reality as it, good, bad or indifferent" need to have a look at Nietzches life, 40 years of loneliness followed by ten years, gibbering, in the nut house.
Is that what you want? Well is it?
And he was german, german beer is some of the best in the world, mental.

Seriously Tim, its your shout, make mine a double:D

I'm going to go and try not to drink. I'll try and get people talking about Dawkins and then counter argue.
I'll throw in a
"why is there something rather than nothing?"
and
"but there must be a first uncaused cause?"
then I'll point Robert Wintson is much better at sciene than anybody at expensive picnic and he believes.
That debate and some music should make a good weekend

Tim Robbins

Electric Picnic

lostexpectation wrote:

what age are you TR?

32

Ciaran500

So you are going to try and argue evolution with a bunch of drunks? Bit of an easy target, no?

MoominPapa

Tim Robbins wrote:

I'm going to go and try not to drink. I'll try and get people talking about Dawkins and then counter argue.
I'll throw in a
"why is there something rather than nothing?"
and
"but there must be a first uncaused cause?"
then I'll point Robert Wintson is much better at sciene than anybody at expensive picnic and he believes.
That debate and some music should make a good weekend

Shine on you crazy diamond

Tim Robbins

Electric Picnic

Ciaran500 wrote:

So you are going to try and argue evolution with a bunch of drunks? Bit of an easy target, no?

I know some of these people, they think they know it all and all religion is stupid. They dumb it all down to religion V science and don't know much about either.

Yeah if they give out about religion being a crutch for people who are afraid to look at life for what it really is. I'm planning on pointing out it's the same with drink. But they are just paying a lot more for their "suspension of disbelief" than the religious people.

cavedave

then I'll point Robert Wintson is much better at sciene than anybody at expensive picnic and he believes.

Ah the classic "you are too stupid to be an atheist" argument.

http://www.videosift.com/video/Youre-too-stupid-to-be-an-atheist

Tim Robbins

Electric Picnic

cavedave wrote:

Ah the classic "you are too stupid to be an atheist" argument.

http://www.videosift.com/video/Youre-too-stupid-to-be-an-atheist

It's fair enough if people think religion is stupid and science is the biz. But if they don't even know that much about Science and the limits of it and logic, I just think it's dogmatic.

Dades

Tim Robbins wrote:

Yeah if they give out about religion being a crutch for people who are afraid to look at life for what it really is. I'm planning on pointing out it's the same with drink. But they are just paying a lot more for their "suspension of disbelief" than the religious people.

The EP seems a funny place to go to pick an argument. Esp with your views on excessive drinking.

Also your drink/religion analogy is very limited IMO. There are people who use religion as a crutch, and those that use drink as a crutch. But start harping on to people at a music festival and they'll rightly shun you.

Why are you even going?

Tim Robbins

Electric Picnic

Also your drink/religion analogy is very limited IMO. There are people who use religion as a crutch, and those that use drink as a crutch.

Elaborate?

But start harping on to people at a music festival and they'll rightly shun you.

Yes it's risky, people don't like their beliefs / opinions questioned.

Why are you even going?

To find out the truth. Come along.

cavedave

Yes it's risky, people don't like their beliefs / opinions questioned.

So you are going to spend hundreds of euro to go to where people are on holiday and badger them (under the delusion you are some sort of poor mans Socrates)? And people say atheists are no fun .
Would it not be cheaper to stand outside mass or on Grafton street and badger people? You could sell your ticket and buy some cakes with it as well.

Dades

Tim Robbins wrote:

Elaborate?

Too simplistic. Cursory or one eyed, even.

Yes it's risky, people don't like their beliefs / opinions questioned

Not at a frickin' music festival they don't!

To find out the truth. Come along.

I was at a festival last week and much as I like a good theological discussion I just wanted to drink pints with my mates and listen to the music. The pints weren't a "crutch" either, they were just pints. So I'll skip this one, thanks!

5uspect

cavedave wrote:

Ah the classic "you are too stupid to be an atheist" argument.

http://www.videosift.com/video/Youre-too-stupid-to-be-an-atheist

I love this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRmC0DaE6rE&mode=related&search=

Tim Robbins

Electric Picnic

The Atheist wrote:

Too simplistic. Cursory or one eyed, even.

Not at a frickin' music festival they don't!

I was at a festival last week and much as I like a good theological discussion I just wanted to drink pints with my mates and listen to the music. The pints weren't a "crutch" either, they were just pints. So I'll skip this one, thanks!

are my my own on this one?
For me there's a bit of a Plato's cave here.
To the religious man, religion is not a crutch.
To the drinks man, the pints are not a crutch.
To me, they look like very similar shadows in the cave cast for the same reasons.

Does the artist need to have a few beers to enjoy painting?
Does the boards.ie poster need a vodka to enjoy posting?

Something is either enjoyable or not. I don't see how drink can all of sudden make something that isn't good, become good.

Help?

bringitdown

I like music, I like beer, beer + music ... sweet.

humanji

bringitdown wrote:

I like music, I like beer, beer + music ... sweet.

If you like music, why would you go to electric picnic?

bringitdown

Pffft ... opinions on the internet well I never.

Tim Robbins

Electric Picnic

humanji wrote:

If you like music, why would you go to electric picnic?

You mean, pay €220 to go to expensive picnic. It's not about music, it's about getting treated like cattle, and lining a few fat cat pockets.
There are some excellant gigs that are free - 15 euro, I'd much prefer to go to.

Dades

Tim Robbins wrote:

Something is either enjoyable or not. I don't see how drink can all of sudden make something that isn't good, become good.

I'm sorry, who said that?

Of course alcohol has it's very publicised dark side. But just because something can be abused doesn't mean every instance of it's enjoyment is abuse.

Reminds me of that old Catch 22.

Man drinking a pint: "I'm not an alcoholic."
Overzealous Pioneer: "The first sign of a problem is denial."
Man drinking a pint: "WTF?!"

Tim Robbins

Electric Picnic

The Atheist wrote:

I'm sorry, who said that?

Of course alcohol has it's very publicised dark side. But just because something can be abused doesn't mean every instance of it's enjoyment is abuse.

Reminds me of that old Catch 22.

Man drinking a pint: "I'm not an alcoholic."
Overzealous Pioneer: "The first sign of a problem is denial."
Man drinking a pint: "WTF?!"

Ok excuse the cheesy analogy which of course is not a logical argument but bear with me.

We know the argument theists use about God and morals. God says what is right or wrong. To which Plato replies, something is either intrinsicially right or wrong, something can't just be right or wrong because God says so.

To me an activity is either good or bad entertainment. A psycho active drug can't make something good that isn't already.
e.g. I watch Rugby because to me it's good. I don't have a few beers and then render it good - it's just good.
e.g. I enjoy some people's company because they are interesting and funny. I don't need beers to enjoy their company.
e.g. some people may not be so much fun, drink may make their company more bearable but it's all an illusion, their company for what it really is n't much fun.

All drink does is distort your sense data and emotional reactions. So things appear different to what they actually really are. But even though the appearance may be different, the "essence" of it stays the same. Drink is a way of not dealing with the essence of anything. Drink can't make the essence of something good or bad entertainment, it is simple a way of avoiding the true essence.

Comments...

humanji

So you're saying that you can't change your mind? It's not possible to not like rugby after a while? We, as humans, live in the now. If alcohol makes the now more bearable, then how is that a bad thing?

Tim Robbins

Electric Picnic

humanji wrote:

So you're saying that you can't change your mind? It's not possible to not like rugby after a while? We, as humans, live in the now. If alcohol makes the now more bearable, then how is that a bad thing?

I think it's better to like something for what it really is. Alcohol hides an objects true essence.
Here's a simple one for you:
We've all gone to a nightclub met a girl, when drunk, thought they were great and then met them again sober only to revise our opinions.
Now if we only live once, while these stories can be funny they are actual a waste of time of our only life.

Dades

Tim Robbins wrote:

All drink does is distory your sense data and emotion reactions. Things are what they really are. We either take and deal with them for what they really are or else we try to convince ourselves or trick ourselves they are something else.

Do you have pointed ears and green blood? Because that sounds a bit Vulcan* to me.

* Vulcan was already in my firefox spellcheck - yay!

Ciaran500

Tim Robbins wrote:

All drink does is distort your sense data and emotional reactions. So things appear different to what they actually really are. But even though the appearance may be different, the "essence" of it stays the same. Drink is a way of not dealing with the essence of anything. Drink can't make the essence of something good or bad entertainment, it is simple a way of avoiding the true essence.

Comments...

Surely anything that can change your emotional state can do this, foods, music, other people, sleep, weather all change your emotional state and how we perceive the world around us.

Think of how something can easily things can annoy you early in the morning after a bad nights sleep.


Also:

Tim Robbins pictured earlier today

Scofflaw

Tim Robbins wrote:

All drink does is distort your sense data and emotional reactions. So things appear different to what they actually really are. But even though the appearance may be different, the "essence" of it stays the same. Drink is a way of not dealing with the essence of anything. Drink can't make the essence of something good or bad entertainment, it is simple a way of avoiding the true essence.

I think it's better to like something for what it really is. Alcohol hides an objects true essence.
Here's a simple one for you:
We've all gone to a nightclub met a girl, when drunk, thought they were great and then met them again sober only to revise our opinions.
Now if we only live once, while these stories can be funny they are actual a waste of time of our only life.

I like being mildly drunk, and I like being stoned, and I find I have to take drink or drugs to achieve these states.

Of course, I also like computer games, which aren't real, sometimes in combination with the above. I also enjoy reading books, although my imagination tends to hide the fact that I'm holding a lump of dead tree with little markings on it.

I even converse with invisible people on my computer, although I cannot see their true essence...

existence precedes essence,
Scofflaw

Tim Robbins

Electric Picnic

Ciaran500 wrote:

Surely anything that can change your emotional state can do this, foods, music, other people, sleep, weather all change your emotional state and how we perceive the world around us.

Yes but Drink is a bio-chemical pyscho active drug it's not part of natural bio system. The things you talk about are the natural world.

Tim Robbins

Electric Picnic

The Atheist wrote:

Do you have pointed ears and green blood? Because that sounds a bit Vulcan* to me.

* Vulcan was already in my firefox spellcheck - yay!

Fair enough, The Atheist. But many people think this way, James Randi for example.