Soft Play and Splitting Money

pokerkingsni

I run a small weekly game in the local pub. For the last 3 weeks four guys have been coming to play. They all agree to split their winnings if any of them cash. This is something i've seen before, but i just wanna know is this legal?

Also, this week one player outside of these guys expressed concern that if two of these fellas are in a pot they seem to just check it down all the time. Is this considered soft play? And if so how is this dealt with from a TD's point of view.

Up to now it was a nice friendly relaxed game of Poker!!

Any comments would be much appreciated.

AKQJ10

Paul Fox (Cuban Son) seems to be the local judicator on these matters.

Ace2007

Didn't the WSOP introduce the rule that if you have the stone cold nuts and u are last to act and you check on the river then you get a 20 minute penalty - i assume it was to ensure acts like described above wouldn't occur...

BuChan

AKQJ10 wrote:

Paul Fox (Cuban Son) seems to be the local judicator on these matters.

lol

Clareman

The 4 guys playing together is collusion, simple as that, how you decided to deal with it is up to yourself. The biggest problem I have with pub games is exactly what you described, you can get situations where you have 3/4 teams out there and then the wild cards.

Ace, yup, they have that ruling and I think it's a great rule, saying that I'm such a donk I'd proberly think I have the nutts and end up going broke

tricky D

afaik the Hendon Mob have some sort of similar profit sharing agreement. As long as it doesn't affect play it isn't a problem. That's a very very big 'if' in your type of game, though not at all with the Hendon Mob.

kryogen

its very difficult to prove this is happening, im referring to the soft play, the checking down.... im not sure how to deal with it technically, maybe someone with knowledge on rulings can shed more light?

its not uncommon to have a percentage of a travelling partner or friend.... i tend to take and give % when playing tournaments,mainly outside my local mind you, but this will never transfer into me soft playing someone.

if collusion is proved they must be thrown out/banned from future games?? im just not sure how you can prove it, i believe they dont need proof as such online, just a high enough level of suspicion?

like i said maybe someone who runs tournament can shine light?

neill kelly??? connie??

Lplate

pokerkingsni wrote:

I run a small weekly game in the local pub. For the last 3 weeks four guys have been coming to play. They all agree to split their winnings if any of them cash. This is something i've seen before, but i just wanna know is this legal?

Also, this week one player outside of these guys expressed concern that if two of these fellas are in a pot they seem to just check it down all the time. Is this considered soft play? And if so how is this dealt with from a TD's point of view.

Up to now it was a nice friendly relaxed game of Poker!!

Any comments would be much appreciated.

There's nothing wrong with agreeing to a split, however silly it may seem in a small pub game to split a small pot 4 ways.

On the soft play issue, as TD you should watch the tables where they are playing and decide for yourself if you think there is a case to answer. If there is, all tournament rules have a soft play rule where you can issue warnings/time penalties and ultimately disqualification. In practice, if you are obviously watching what happens there will probably be no case to answer and it is unlikely that there is anyway. Beware of someone else saying "they seem to check it down all the time". I have an acquaintance who thinks any 2friends/brothers etc (apart from himself and his buddies) who are at the same table are "playing together" when he never has the slightest shred of evidence. In my experience, poker playing pals love to beat each other just for bragging rights.

poorbarman

In all fairness in most pub games people have this idea that some of the guys are "soft playing" or colluding when they just dont really know how to play.A guy at my game last night checked behind on the river with the nuts because he just isnt very good and didnt realise he had it.As for sharing winnings,that is a regular thing,I nearly always swop percentages with companions whom I travel with but it doesnt make me play different against them.

CaptainNemo

If it's a pub game there's probably almost nothing you can do about the collusion. There's nothing wrong with splitting winnings in a private arrangement but the other sounds like they are colluding. However, if the 2 of them go to war heads up you could just as easily accuse them of chip dumping so the whole thing is very hard to prove.

You could try saying it at the start of the next game - explaining soft play and that players who are doing it will be disqualified. Maybe they will be shamed into not doing it.

ollyk1

Here's what I would do.

Have a quiet word with the lads involved. Tell them people have remarked upon it and you'll be watching out for it from now on. If you see anything offside in the future they won't be welcome to play again. Any splits they do is upto themselves but if there is any softplay or "whipsawing" (building a pot for a mate and ctaching someone else in between) thay are gone.

You should always be watching out for this sort of thing in a pub game along with bad shuffling/bottom dealing. Remember where there is money there is a likelihood of cheating and it's your pub that will get the bad name not the individuals involved.

Also be careful in how you handle the cash in a pub game. If the game grows in popularity the information that some quiet pub in the middle of nowhere has a large amount of cash on X night could easily get to the wrong people.

5starpool

I know 3 people who travel to the Fitz together and split their winnings (above a certain amount) but they never have any trouble knocking each other out, and never soft play each other that I have noticed either. People agreeing to split their winnings isn't the problem, them playing it like a team event of sorts is though. If this behaviour continues, I would have a word with one or more of them, and explain the situation to them. Soft playing is not allowed (in general, although rule bending does occur a bit sometimes) and is tantamount to collusion which is definitely not allowed i nany game.

pokerkingsni

Thanks for all the posts guys. I think a quiet word and a keen eye is best here. I don't think these guys are setting out to check down or softplay, but when they realise its only two of them in a pot and realise they dont want their mate out they check all the way.

Cheers for the help, good to be able to come here an get top quailty advice!:D