Resting: What's enough and when is too much?

cavanmaniac

I went to the gym last Monday and Tuesday, took Weds night off to recover a bit and was planning on going again Thursday and either Friday or Saturday.

However, I tweaked my back a little on the Thursday, was in a degree of discomfort which really only eased off sufficiently to allow me to train safely last night, Monday night, effectively 6 nights away from the gym. (Wasn't best pleased but no ill-effects on the back afterwards btw).

Anyway, I was dreading going back as normally I find my muscles lose strength quite quickly and I was expecting to struggle with the weights and even have to drop back a level. This would be consistent with other times I've been forced away from the gym even though I'm not exactly Arnie on the weights, fairly average I'd say.

To my surprise though, I was fit as a flea and lifted everything I normally would and literally flew through my HIIT cardio. I was very surprised by this because I'd normally struggle like I said, and am wondering if this reveals anything interesting about my own particular recovery rates and so on, anything I could use to my advantage when structuring workouts and rest in the future for example?
I would struggle more than I did last night having taken a day's rest between sessions even so it seemed the longer rest did me a power of good, although my next session might well be very different!

Does this happen to everyone, it hasn't for me up to now but maybe I wasn't eating so well up until a few months ago so might that be the reason - I ate very clean on the days away from gym. Off on holidays at weekend for a week so hoping I'll be able to hit the ground running when I get back as well!:)

Colm_OReilly

Different components of fitness recover/build/drop off at different rates

On one extreme you've strength, which takes a relatively long time to decline. Cardiovascular endurance, however, decreases quite rapidly. The flip side is that you can experience cardio gains quite quickly as well.

Rippetoe & Kilgore proposed that this adaptation is due to survival demands, and the ability to run away from danger being more important/immediate than overall strength.

As for recovery rates, it's highly dependent on whether you're a novice/inter/adv/elite lifter. (Most are novice/inter). As a novice you generally will have a fewer workouts and longer rest periods, but as you progress you're training can become more varied, which will mean your rest periods will become active rest (i.e. working at a lower rate)

Recovery is also dependent on sleep, hormone levels, stress, & diet - not just the hours between workouts. Obviously the better these are, the better recovery you're going to make.

Without knowing your aims and regime it would be hard to give you anything specific but hopefully that will give you some food for thought.

Colm

cavanmaniac

Colm_OReilly wrote:

Rippetoe & Kilgore

Those lads sound dangerous with those names, I wouldn't mess with those bad boys:)

Colm_OReilly wrote:

Without knowing your aims and regime it would be hard to give you anything specific but hopefully that will give you some food for thought.
Colm

Usually train three/four times a week, one session with weights, cardio, abs, next two weights and cardio, if a fourth it's just weights only with the weights being a split routine - chest, back,shoulders one day, arms and legs the next.

My major aim at the moment is to shift body fat and build muscle, me and everyone else I suppose. I'm hovering around the 22% BF which frankly disguts (Freudian slip spelling mistake, eh?) me! 6 foot tall, 13st 9.
I do crosstrainer intervals of one min crawl pace @ low level then one minute @ high level flat out, at least eight intervals and building up. Well knackered after it too.

AlphaMale 3OO

This completely depends on you yourself. When I first started training I was obsessed by resting my body and ensuring I was fresh. However as time moved on and my body adjusted I found I needed less and less rest. I was getting fitter. Also the thrill of training or that "drug" effect was taking over and I need to get my training fix. The result is that I have had just one rest day in three months (incidentaly last Sunday) and I have been bowled over by how little rest I've needed. All this time I've lost Body Fat built a load of muscle and increased my strength. I often train 14 times a week and writing this now I think I'm absolutely crazy but its just the way things panned out. They snowballed. I'm doing 5 weights and 9 cardio sessions a week (admitedly I have taken a career break so I have the time) but I've found that the body can go places you never thought possible and quite often tiredness is either mental or otherwise. You must listen to your body before taking on a workload like this and you absolutely must build up to it. No going from no activity to maximum actvity. I also eat a sh1tload of really good food and I've found that the addition of healthy fats (a lot of them) to my diet have aided recovery in addition to the multitude of supplements I'm taking. Rest is extremely important but its the manner of it that matters. I've for the most part quit alcohol and this is another factor in recovery.

Hanley

It's perfectly normal to come back stronger after a week off if you've been training sufficently hard for the preceeding weeks or months.

My last heavy deadlift session before a compeition is usually 2 weeeks out. And after that it's nothing but rest for my deadlift. 10-14 days off from heavy squatting too, and 7 days off on the bench.

AlphaMale 3OO

Hanley wrote:

It's perfectly normal to come back stronger after a week off if you've been training sufficently hard for the preceeding weeks or months.

My last heavy deadlift session before a compeition is usually 2 weeeks out. And after that it's nothing but rest for my deadlift. 10-14 days off from heavy squatting too, and 7 days off on the bench.

Speaking of that, I often find that when I do a full on heavy deadlift session, I dont have it in me to repeat it a week later. It usually takes me 10 days to recover.

Hanley

forbesii wrote:

Speaking of that, I often find that when I do a full on heavy deadlift session, I dont have it in me to repeat it a week later. It usually takes me 10 days to recover.

What do you mean by full on? High reps, 90+% weights of something entirely differnt?

Generally if I do high reps (8+) I'm screwed for 2 weeks.
I can recover from 80-85% of my max for 5 sets of 3 reps in about 3 days.
And an all out gut busting set of 90% for 5 reps takes about 1 week to 10 days to recover from.

Obviously all of that is dependant on my squatting intenstiy and volume too...

AlphaMale 3OO

Hanley wrote:

What do you mean by full on? High reps, 90+% weights of something entirely differnt?

Generally if I do high reps (8+) I'm screwed for 2 weeks.
I can recover from 80-85% of my max for 5 sets of 3 reps in about 3 days.
And an all out gut busting set of 90% for 5 reps takes about 1 week to 10 days to recover from.

Obviously all of that is dependant on my squatting intenstiy and volume too...

By full on I mean lifting as much as I can for 8-10 reps on the last set having built may way up in increments of 20 kg having warmed up on 100kg. I keep going until I cant max out for 8 reps. I do not put a number on the amount of sets I will do. It depends on my form on the day. I will usually end up doing around 190 kg for 8 by the time I burn out. When I move up to 200 for 8 I can barely squeeze out 2. Thats what I consider full on. Also from time to time Ill just do a one rep max session. I do deadlifts on their own as a standalone session removed from everything else. This wil usually put me out of max lift (deadlift) action for 10 days or so.

Patto

Hey Colm, you seem to be well up on recovery and over training.

Can you explain this to me.

On Sunday I played a football match, I play mid field and I am reasonably fit so I would have done a lot of running in the game.

I know from many years of experience that I would not be able to recover to a level sufficient to play a football match at the same level for 4-5 days. I used to be able to recover quicker in my early 20s, this is certainly one of the noticable effects of the ageing process.

I did a 5 mile road race a few weeks back, same story, 4-5 days recovery, I ran a 10 mile race back in March, I didn't recover fully for well over a week.

Last night I was in the gym lifting weights, even though it was just over 48 hours since the football match and I was not fully recovered, I was tired and stiff, once I warmed up and stretched well the lack of recovery had no effect whatever on the weight or volume of weights I was lifting.

Colm_OReilly

Patto,

You haven't asked a question, but I'll take a guess you're asking how come you can still perform after the game.

Here's a couple of theories:

1. You didn't exhaust your body during the game, so less time was needed
2. You had ample sleep, diet, low stress btween the game and your workout
3. Mentally, you were in the zone for your workout. Rather than think "oh, my bod's a little sore", you said "hey, let's get to it" which would have an effect on your performance
4. Your weights routine isn't challenging enough, so even in a depressed state you could still complete it

Patto

I think I need to come at this from another angle. I don't see the point commenting on your four points below because my comments would be completely subjective i.e. what I think is a tough workout or football match you may clasify as easy or visa versa...

I was interested in your crossfit speal about the three energy systems we use when working out and how we recover from each.

It seems to me that no matter how hard you workout in the gym lifting weights you will invariably recover within 48 hours, even with a bit of residual doms I find you are good to go again no matter what after 48 hours or sooner somethimes. You often hear people saying there is no such thing as over training in this respect and I agree to some extent.

Not so with high intensity running, like running a road race or playing a football match, it can take days and days to get back to your pre match/race state. In this respect I find it is very easy to overtrain.

The other thing I notice is I can always get back into the gym with 48hrs of a football match or a road race. Even though I have not recoverd enough to play another match or run a race to the same level, I can lift weights with no performance loss.

It seems to me different energy systems recover quicker than others. Just wondering if you have a better explaination of this than my ramble above? That is my question I guess:o

Patto

Hey Colm,

Any further ideas on this one?

Colm_OReilly

Patto,

Sorry for not replying sooner.

While we predominantly train our phosphegan and glycotic systems (anaerobic) while lifting weights, and these do recover quicker than our aerobic systems, that doesn't mean that you can always recover from a weights session within 48 hours.

As a "novice" lifter, you can recover from sessions quicker, because you will be adapting faster to any stimuli. But, as you reach advanced and elite, you need greater challenges to disrupt status and force a positive change (e.g. an extra 5Kg on your deadlift)

Indeed, according to practical programming, this is what defines a lifter as novice, inter, or advanced, the length of time it takes to see gains.

As a personal observation, I've noticed the longer something is, the easier it is for novices to overexert themselves. With a 3RM, a novice will either fail or succeed. However, at low intensities, they can continue to go long past any sort of health benefit has been attained and break down their body, which will lead to DOMS and other such nasties.

Perhaps this helps. If you have any further questions - fire away!
Colm