Marathon training and losing weight - A query...

bobbysands81

Hi all,

I'm currently in the middle of a 18 week marathon training program. At first the weight was falling off me but in the last 2 weeks I have hardly lost a pound although my clothes are a lot looser on me.

Anyone know what or why this is happening?

I have completely changed my diet and would hardly ever hit the 2,500 cal limit a day (and would be well below it other days) but I'm eating plenty of rice and have only drank twice in the last 2 months.

Today for instance I burnt about 2,500 calories on a 20k run.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

hunnymonster

bobbysands81 wrote:

HToday for instance I burnt about 2,500 calories on a 20k run.

You need to be quite heavy to burn 2500 kCal in 20 km. Are you sure that figure is correct?

irlirishkev

I *think*.. the slimmer you are, the harder it is to lose that excess flab, so when you started out, you probably had more fat to lose.

Get those carbs into you. I did the marathon last year. You need to stock up on the energy food well in advance of the run. Check out the running forum under 'sports'.. lots of advice there in the run up to the marathon.

Best of luck with it!

K.

bobbysands81

hunnymonster wrote:

You need to be quite heavy to burn 2500 kCal in 20 km. Are you sure that figure is correct?

I am quite heavy - that's the problem!!!

Cheers irlirishkev!

rubadub

irlirishkev wrote:

I *think*.. the slimmer you are, the harder it is to lose that excess flab, so when you started out, you probably had more fat to lose.

Yes, the body will tend to hold on to some fat to the bitter end. Also as you get thinner you are lugging around less weight so using less calories. As you get thinner your basal metabolic needs get less and less.
I started commuting to work and it took my around 60mins in the beginning, now I am 20kg lighter, fitter and do it in 15-20mins. I am probably exerting the same effort, but probably was expending more energy back then due to the added weight, and it took 3-4times as long.
So to be getting the same exercise I should change my route so it takes 60mins again.

Today for instance I burnt about 2,500 calories on a 20k run.

How do you come up with this figure? If you are all out running you should be burning about 800kcal per hour.

Also weighing at different times can lead to different readings. I can weigh up to 7lb difference in 24hrs- food & hydration.

bobbysands81

rubadub wrote:

Yes, the body will tend to hold on to some fat to the bitter end. Also as you get thinner you are lugging around less weight so using less calories. As you get thinner your basal metabolic needs get less and less.
I started commuting to work and it took my around 60mins in the beginning, now I am 20kg lighter, fitter and do it in 15-20mins. I am probably exerting the same effort, but probably was expending more energy back then due to the added weight, and it took 3-4times as long.
So to be getting the same exercise I should change my route so it takes 60mins again.



How do you come up with this figure? If you are all out running you should be burning about 800kcal per hour.

Also weighing at different times can lead to different readings. I can weigh up to 7lb difference in 24hrs- food & hydration.

I did my run on a treadmill.

Colm_OReilly

You are running outdoors and not just on a threadmill, right?

bobbysands81

Colm_OReilly wrote:

You are running outdoors and not just on a threadmill, right?

Yup, doing a lot on treadmill though cos of arthritis, shin splints and groin problems! I'm an old croc!

I actually find the outdoor running a lot easier than the treadmill. However, I just can't do as much as I want outdoors, I will be increasing my outdoor running more and more before the big day. Have a 15 miler this Sat and I might try and do all that outdoors. My 7 miler tomorrow will be done outdoors too.

Patto

What is your diet like? How many of those 2500 are carbs?

My experience is that it is very difficult to get below 10% BF on a high carb diet, you really need to up the protein and fat to get your bodyfat right down. You will still need those carbs for running but get loads of good fats in, udo's oil, avakados, seeds, nuts, fish oils etc. I don't know the science behind it but it works.

bobbysands81

Patto wrote:

What is your diet like? How many of those 2500 are carbs?

My experience is that it is very difficult to get below 10% BF on a high carb diet, you really need to up the protein and fat to get your bodyfat right down. You will still need those carbs for running but get loads of good fats in, udo's oil, avakados, seeds, nuts, fish oils etc. I don't know the science behind it but it works.

To be honest mate I haven't a clue.

Today I will/have eaten...

Brekkie
2 eggs, 1 slice of bread. 10g Low-Low

Lunch
2 slices of bread
2 slices of salami
1 slice of swiss cheese

Dinner
1 pouch of Uncle Ben's microwaveable rice (250g I think)
200g Chicken breast
1 low fat low calorie sauce.

Patto

How many miles are you running in a week?
What do you weigh?

Unless you are 8 stone or less you should be wasting away on that diet, even if you are not doing any running.

You need more fats for sure.

Colm_OReilly

Get off the threadmill asap!

With a threadmill you're not getting the benefit of running. There are two phases of running, the work and rest phase.

The work phase is the period from when your foot hits the ground to when it leaves the ground. This is when your muscles are actively propelling you forward.

On a threadmill, your foot is dragged back, so there's no real work phase. You're essentially just hitting the ground repeatedly.

If running outdoors is a problem try to spend more time on softer surfaces, and ensure you've good shoes for the task.

bobbysands81

Colm_OReilly wrote:

Get off the threadmill asap!

With a threadmill you're not getting the benefit of running. There are two phases of running, the work and rest phase.

The work phase is the period from when your foot hits the ground to when it leaves the ground. This is when your muscles are actively propelling you forward.

On a threadmill, your foot is dragged back, so there's no real work phase. You're essentially just hitting the ground repeatedly.

If running outdoors is a problem try to spend more time on softer surfaces, and ensure you've good shoes for the task.

Got a good pair of runners in Amphibian King.

Surely there is a worh phase as you need to spring forward the exact same amount to run on a treadmill as in reality?!

There are studies on the interweb which say that there is less than a difference of 1% between the two. I find the treadmill much much easier on my joints than running on a road. I definitely do not feel physically different (as in more sore) after running on the treadmill as compared to the road but as mentioned it's far easier on my joints and more practical especially as I need to do some of my running during lunch from work.

PeakOutput

bobbysands81 wrote:

Surely there is a worh phase as you need to spring forward the exact same amount to run on a treadmill as in reality?!

you are not propelling your body forward in anyway though you are simply moving your legs fast enough to keep up with the machine once your feet touch the machine you are not using any energy accept for bringing your other foot forward. on the road you need to do both.

I would not know enough to say how much of a difference it is but for me it is noticeable

bobbysands81

PeakOutput wrote:

you are not propelling your body forward in anyway though you are simply moving your legs fast enough to keep up with the machine once your feet touch the machine you are not using any energy accept for bringing your other foot forward. on the road you need to do both.

I would not know enough to say how much of a difference it is but for me it is noticeable

This study says the difference is minimal

http://www.hillrunner.com/training/tmillchart.php

To be sure I think I'll start mixing it up a bit more and doing more of my runs on the road, which was my plan anyway.

There's a good discussion on the topic on this thread as well

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055112563

...and back to my main concern, anyone know why weight is not dropping further?

ceidefields

Give me a break, anyone with half a clue knows that running on a treadmill does provide a workout. It might not be as strenuous as running outside, but if it allows you to get the mileage in, then why not. Actually running some of your miles on a treadmill can prevent injuries.

I think as long as your weekly long run is outside, you will be fine.

bobbysands - more fruit and veg and more healthy fats. The whiter your diet, the more unhealthy.

PeakOutput

ceidefields wrote:

Give me a break, anyone with half a clue knows that running on a treadmill does provide a workout. It might not be as strenuous as running outside, but if it allows you to get the mileage in, then why not. Actually running some of your miles on a treadmill can prevent injuries.

would you not agree that training for marathon distance on a threadmill and then trying to do a marathon on a road is a bad idea?

it does give you a workout but is it the SAME workout that you get from running on a road and does it work the muscles/skills you need to be able to run on the road affectively?

I'm not experienced enough to know the answer but i suspect not

edit;

bobbysands81 wrote:

This study says the difference is minimal
http://www.hillrunner.com/training/tmillchart.php

thats not really a study either though, a study would be an article explaining the science behind the proclamation with figures to back it up

ali.c

bobbysands81 wrote:

Hi all,

I'm currently in the middle of a 18 week marathon training program. At first the weight was falling off me but in the last 2 weeks I have hardly lost a pound although my clothes are a lot looser on me.

Your clothes are getting looser so something is *happening*, your diet is eh okay but it could be alot better. Obviously as your training for a marathon carbs are important but the bulk of your kcals seem to be coming from them, more fruit and veg and good fats would def help. What did you weight when you started and what do you weight now?

bobbysands81

ali.c wrote:

Your clothes are getting looser so something is *happening*, your diet is eh okay but it could be alot better. Obviously as your training for a marathon carbs are important but the bulk of your kcals seem to be coming from them, more fruit and veg and good fats would def help. What did you weight when you started and what do you weight now?

Eating a good bit of fruit on top of what I listed, I would have thought that my diet was excellent??? The 2 eggs and toast was only this morning, a lot of time I would have a scone, the 10g of Low-Low and a thing of jam.

Plenty of Watermelon and Melon and an Orange every morning.

Gone from 19st 2 to approx 17st 10.


ceidefields, how is the rice and chicken unhealthy??? I would have thought that was as good as it gets???

Colm_OReilly

Rice is pretty damn unhealthy. Biologically, we didn't evolve to eat it. Plus white rice has had so much done to it it's hardly natural.

I believe ceide was saying that white bread, starch and sugars were unhealthy.

ali.c

bobbysands81 wrote:

Eating a good bit of fruit on top of what I listed, I would have thought that my diet was excellent??? The 2 eggs and toast was only this morning, a lot of time I would have a scone, the 10g of Low-Low and a thing of jam.

eh at 17'2 and training for a marathon 2500kcal is a bit low, jaysus sure my maintenance levels are around 2000kcal at 74kg and not training for a marathon. Anyways well what wrong with your diet, and someone with more endurance training experience (i have very little) might be able to offer more advice.
I cant remember what type of bread you said, but if possible it should be wholemeal. Fruit is great but you need to get some veg into you too. You need to plan your food intake around your training, esp if you are running 20km try and get some quick release carbs and some protein into you post workout. In the morning though and outside the pre-workout window try to keep your carb intake to complex (slow burning carbs).
Eggs on toast though is a lot better than a scone and jam in the morning time.
There is loads of info in the stickies on diet and nutrition and in light of the training you are doing you'll need to get more carbs than most people.

As to why you arent losing weight, giving what you said about the 2500kcal a day i am surprised the weight is not falling off you, are there prehaps some hidden kcals in your diet how closely to you monitor your food intake?

i wouldnt of thought that rice was that bad, esp if its basamati rice and it has a low gi......

bobbysands81

ali.c wrote:

eh at 17'2 and training for a marathon 2500kcal is a bit low, jaysus sure my maintenance levels are around 2000kcal at 74kg and not training for a marathon. Anyways well what wrong with your diet, and someone with more endurance training experience (i have very little) might be able to offer more advice.
I cant remember what type of bread you said, but if possible it should be wholemeal. Fruit is great but you need to get some veg into you too. You need to plan your food intake around your training, esp if you are running 20km try and get some quick release carbs and some protein into you post workout. In the morning though and outside the pre-workout window try to keep your carb intake to complex (slow burning carbs).
Eggs on toast though is a lot better than a scone and jam in the morning time.
There is loads of info in the stickies on diet and nutrition and in light of the training you are doing you'll need to get more carbs than most people.

As to why you arent losing weight, giving what you said about the 2500kcal a day i am surprised the weight is not falling off you, are there prehaps some hidden kcals in your diet how closely to you monitor your food intake?

i wouldnt of thought that rice was that bad, esp if its basamati rice and it has a low gi......

Cheers mhate - the weight is starting to come off again, hopefully it'll keep going!