Seller's not leaving feedback until the buyer does

Colonel Sanders

at least 90% of the time I use ebay the seller won't leave me feedback until i leave feedback for him/her. This practice really annoys me. I have paid and honoured all my side of the agreement so should get positive feedback immediately.

I have seen sellers leave negitive feedback for people purely because the buyer left negative feedback. Sometimes I want to leave neutral feedback as i have been charged extortionate postage compared to the actual cots of postage or delivery is slow but am afraid I'll be left bad feedback as a result.

Anyone I speak to says this really annoys them too. Anyone else think this practice is wrong and ebay should sort it out?

neacy69

I agree with this completely
Once a buyer has completed his end of the deal ie paid the cash in a timely manner then you should immediately get good feedback.
The feedback the buyers leave for sellers is the only way of knowing if the seller if legit, selling good items or screwing us over with postage

Colonel Sanders

I always wondered if there was a way of contacting ebay and maybe petitioning on this issue? I can't find a contact e-mail address on their website.

Oryx

I reckon the reason most sellers do this is because once they get feedback from the buyer, they know the item has arrived ok, and the sale is complete. It also means they actually get the feedback they are owed from the buyer. Im a seller, and initially I used always leave feedback once I got paid, but 9 times out of 10 the buyer wouldnt bother leaving me any, so I had to change.

Kintarō Hattori

Completely agree with KtK on this issue. Anytime I've sold something when I see new feedback then I know it's arrived and I'll leave feedback myself. By leaving feedback before the buyer does you leave yourself open to abuse and there are plenty of idiots on eBay who would quite happily leave you negative feedback without just cause.

Colonel Sanders

eo980 wrote:

Completely agree with KtK on this issue. Anytime I've sold something when I see new feedback then I know it's arrived and I'll leave feedback myself. By leaving feedback before the buyer does you leave yourself open to abuse and there are plenty of idiots on eBay who would quite happily leave you negative feedback without just cause.

But as i pointed out there are plenty of SELLERS who would leave negative feedback just because the buyer (quite rightly) left negative/neutral feedback. By leaving feedback before the seller you leave yourself open to undue negative/neutral feedback. Bottom line is once I pay in full my contractual obligation is complete. hence I should receive feedback. Maybe ebay could change T&Cs to include a clause saying that the sale is not complete til both parties have left feedback?

neacy69

eo980 wrote:

Completely agree with KtK on this issue. Anytime I've sold something when I see new feedback then I know it's arrived and I'll leave feedback myself. By leaving feedback before the buyer does you leave yourself open to abuse and there are plenty of idiots on eBay who would quite happily leave you negative feedback without just cause.

But you should positively endorse legit buyers on ebay who fulfill their end of the deal (paying in a timely manner). The contract is for you to supply the goods in accordance with the description and all the buyer has to do is pay for it. Therefore once the buyer has paid they have fulfilled their end of the deal and positive feedback should be given...
I understand why sellers do it but think it is wrong

Kintarō Hattori

Colonel Sanders wrote:

But as i pointed out there are plenty of SELLERS who would leave negative feedback just because the buyer (quite rightly) left negative/neutral feedback. By leaving feedback before the seller you leave yourself open to undue negative/neutral feedback. Bottom line is once I pay in full my contractual obligation is complete. hence I should receive feedback. Maybe ebay could change T&Cs to include a clause saying that the sale is not complete til both parties have left feedback?

I've never had that problem with a seller. Before I buy anything I check their feedback and their rating. If it's good then I'm happy to leave feedback before them. I wouldn't take a chance on buying something from a seller with little feedback.
I understand what your saying, but you also have to see it from a seller's perspective.

bbbbb

I'm a buyer on ebay (no sales), and this used to annoy me alot too but now I think I understand it. As well as the reasons above, the sale isn't really complete until all the feedback is left. If a buyer has an issue with the product, they should contact the seller rather than rushing to leave negative feedback.

As an example, I bought some RAM for my laptop. When it arrived it failed memtest, I was fuming!!! However I gave the seller the benefit of the doubt & he sorted it out for me quickly.

Colonel Sanders wrote:

Sometimes I want to leave neutral feedback as i have been charged extortionate postage compared to the actual cots of postage

That's not a reason for leaving neutral or negative feedback in my book. You should know the costs before you buy, and be willing to pay them or go elsewhere.

Colonel Sanders

bbbbb wrote:

That's not a reason for leaving neutral or negative feedback in my book. You should know the costs before you buy, and be willing to pay them or go elsewhere.

Being ripped off isn't a reason to leave negative/neutral feedback? Please explain?

I am quoted a sale price and a P&P price. I don't know if that P&P price is reasonable until the item arrives and I can see the postage costs.

Colonel Sanders

eo980 wrote:

I've never had that problem with a seller. Before I buy anything I check their feedback and their rating. If it's good then I'm happy to leave feedback before them. I wouldn't take a chance on buying something from a seller with little feedback.
I understand what your saying, but you also have to see it from a seller's perspective.

As I said before, buyers will leave positive feedback eventho they really want to criticise, postage costs was the example used above. the next person goes in and says 'oh, this guy havs 100% positive feedback, I'll buy from him'. He then realises when his item is delivered he has been charged maybe twice the actual postage costs (sometimes more). Therefore because of this practice the feedback a seller actually has may not be a true reflection of his standing for the reasons I have outlined above.

If people could leave negative feedback without the worry that the seller will then leave (undeserved) negative feedback postage rip off merchants would be exposed and would either have to charge reasonable P&P prices or at least the buyer would be aware who these rip off merchants were.

Oryx

Postage costs are always an issue with eBay. Ill state here: the cost I charge is usually more than will be on the anPost docket. Not extortionately, but a euro or two, to cover my packing etc. Some sellers do it to cover the cost of a very cheap item without paying fees. Not officially permitted, but it happens. End of the day, you see what the fee is before you buy, and you know your total cost, and whether its fair in total for the item... so I dont think it is at all fair to give a neg feedback for excess postage.

Colonel Sanders

we'll have to agree to disagree so. I wouldn't leave negative feedback if it was a small bit over the odds but sometimes the difference is huge. I once asked the seller how much a book would cost to post (there was only a UK rate advertised). He told me he checked t the post office and the cost would be ST€5.80. The postage cost was only ST€2.80 (less than half the amount charged). I know 3 pounds isn't something to call the Police over but its a rip off nevertheless. I have often seen postage charges of over €50 advertised for items that will fit into very small packets from Ireland and the UK (needless to say I never purchased these items).

In any case no matter what anyone says after paying in full I have fulfilled my obligations and IMO am entitled to feedback BEFORE I leave feedback for the seller.

jor el

That practice by sellers really annoys me too. I have 36 positive feedbacks now and only one of them was left by the seller just after I paid.

I understand that from a sellers point of view they could be facing more negative feedbacks if the item is delayed in the post or something, but from a buyers point of view it feels like my feedback is being held to ransom and will only be given if I leave positive feedback.

I've even had a case recently where the item didn't arrive and after some considerable time the seller eventually agreed to refund my money. Since I'd got my money back I decided to leave positive feedback. The seller hasn't left me anything. I wish I'd left negative feedback now as I know for a fact that the seller was ripping me off on registered post and using standard airmail.

Oryx

Come to think of it, at an eBay seminar I went to, the speaker did mention this. He asked that feedback be given when you get paid... and then gave a good humoured shrug, and said, I know most of you dont, but eBay requests that you do.

Colonel Sanders

KtK wrote:

eBay requests that you do.

If this is really ebay's policy its very simple, do not count feedback a seller receives if they have not left it for a buyer, who has fulfilled all their obligations, first. Or use some similar idea. However as long as their profits aren't suffering i doubt they'll care.

BTW has anyone got contact details for ebay? I can't find anything on their website.

EDIT: Also if a seller is charging postage and packing why can't they break it down like that on either the item description and/or invoice?

Ruu_Old

I have over 100 positive feedback and always paid immediately after the purchase through Paypal. I can remember just once or twice, would a seller give me feedback right away.

Colonel Sanders

Ruu wrote:

I have over 100 positive feedback and always paid immediately after the purchase through Paypal. I can remember just once or twice, would a seller give me feedback right away.

My figure is about 28 or 29. The only time I didn't pay immediately was when i was away when the auction ended (I contacted the seller, told him I couldn't pay til 3-4 days after the auction ended and he said it was fine). Only once have I been given feedback by a seller before I left feedback for him/her.

Colonel Sanders

Guy sitting beside me in work just bought an electric toothbrush on ebay. Charged ST£13 for postage, stamp on the package says ST£5.48. Says he's gonna leave neutral feedback as its a complete rip off.

I bet the seller won't leave him feedback in return.

dubtom

I just posted a message on the ebay forum about this last week. I bought an item and the postage was 5 quid sterling. Even though the seller was from Dublin, not 4 miles from me, I assumed the item would come in a fedex box or something. It didn't, it came with two 54 cent stamps and a jiffy bag. I was fuming, seller had made approx another €7 on the sale.Needless to say I was lambasted on the forum, which was occupied mostly by sellers and I humbly have to admit that some of them had a point. I could have haggled with the seller on postage, could have picked it up myself possibly or could have not bought the item at all because I knew he was so near and the postage was too expensive. Point is, and I know that most sellers don't live within a few miles of the buyer,that in my case I had options but didn't take them. A negative feedback would have lowered both our reps. I left a positive but a muted positive,recieved, no bells and whistles.

Colonel Sanders

The guy I mentioned above e-mailed the seller complaining. Seller replied that the ostage cost was designed to cover postage, packing and ebay fees. He mailed back saying that postage should cover postage and all other fees etc are the sellers responsibility and should be added to the price. Postage fees shouldn't be a clever way of lowering the advertised price of an item.

Gonna leave neutral feedback if no satisfaction.

Btw i e-mailed ebay about this. The mail i sent was written with a general tone and not to a specific item, the replier replied as if it was in relation to a specific query Her response was as follows:

Hello,

Thank you for your email. I understand that your seller hasn't left you
a feedback yet.

I would like to inform you that we're as keen as you are for members to
leave feedback, so I understand your concern in this case.

Feedback is essential to the smooth running of eBay. It creates an open
market that encourages honest dealings and makes it possible to conduct
business with strangers over the internet. However, eBay can't tell
members to leave feedback for each other, or influence what feedback
they leave.

It may be that the other member hasn't got around to leaving feedback
for you yet. Computer problems, holidays and personal issues can cause
delays.

You could try sending them a polite email reminder. One email should be
enough if they've forgotten to leave you feedback.

As for your concern about receiving retaliatory negative feedback.
Members don't always use feedback fairly, but you should still try to be
truthful when you rate others. Be clear and professional in your
description of what you feel went wrong. If your partner leaves negative
feedback for you in return, you should leave a polite response via the
Feedback Forum.

Most of the time, when members you've never dealt with are deciding
whether to trade with you, they'll read the negative and neutral
comments in your feedback profile. Retaliatory feedback tends to be easy
to spot, especially if most of your feedback is positive.

Finally, if a clean feedback record is essential to you, and you feel
you risk negative feedback in return for your comments, you don't have
to leave feedback at all. However, you would lose the opportunity to let
others know that you had a bad experience with this member.

I trust this information helps you to make a decision on the right way
to use feedback in this situation.

Kind regards,

XXXXX XXXXX
eBay Customer Support

Hagar

What's the deal with Feedback anyway?

I've only ever bought 1 item. It was supposed to be delivered in 2 days, after a week I got a message from the seller, via ebay saying that the goods would shortly be depatched. I got them finally after 11 days. The seller has 100% positive feedback and I don't want to ruin it by complaining about a delayed despatch/delivery yet it would be false to say I was happy about it. I got some automated mail from ebay asking me for feedback within 5 days, I didn't respond as my order hadn't arrived. How do you handle that one?

Sorry if I've dragged the thread off topic.

mickoneill30

Colonel Sanders wrote:

The guy I mentioned above e-mailed the seller complaining. Seller replied that the ostage cost was designed to cover postage, packing and ebay fees. He mailed back saying that postage should cover postage and all other fees etc are the sellers responsibility and should be added to the price. Postage fees shouldn't be a clever way of lowering the advertised price of an item.

But it is though. I've bought piles of items from ebay for €.10 and €20 postage. When the price of the item here was €40 I don't care when it cost me €20.10 here. eBay & Paypal don't charge fees on postage so that's why the do it. Why complain when the deal is still a good one.

I sold a game on eBay a couple of weeks ago for €39. After fees (eBay & Paypal & postage) I made €28. No big deal and I was expecting it but I wouldn't be making a business out of it.

Colonel Sanders

I know it is but it shouldn't be. If the seller isn't happy with the price he's advertsing for the item he/she shouldn't sell it at that price.

The e-mail above is a bit of a joke. 'Feedback is essential to the smooth running of eBay', yet further down I'm advised not to leave feedback if I'm worried I'll get a retalitory response. Undeserved feedback results in unreliable pictures of sellers being built up which results in an inefficient market. I know that ebay will favour the seller as they pay the fees but without buyers there would be no sellers.

dubtom

Slightly off topic but I can never understand why ebay don't have a see all negative feedback button, like they do the see all feedback. Some buyers have multi neg ratings but have hundreds of sales, so it can take an age to scroll all the pages to view. Personally I like to see what a sellers negatives and what responces they leaves for a negative. If someone recieves the goods as described and in a timely manner they are going positive, it's the negative feedback that describes the other party,warts and all.So if a buyer leaves a neg,eg,I didn't recieve the goods, and the seller leaves a 'dont use, worst ebayer ever' you can guess how they do their buisness.Of course, some of them are cute whores and leave a note under the neg, please resolve any disputes via email, not negative feedback, which usually gets me wondering who's the con artist.

Colonel Sanders

dubtom wrote:

Slightly off topic but I can never understand why ebay don't have a see all negative feedback button, like they do the see all feedback.

very valid point

Oryx

dubtom wrote:

Slightly off topic but I can never understand why ebay don't have a see all negative feedback button, like they do the see all feedback. Some buyers have multi neg ratings but have hundreds of sales, so it can take an age to scroll all the pages to view. Personally I like to see what a sellers negatives and what responces they leaves for a negative. If someone recieves the goods as described and in a timely manner they are going positive, it's the negative feedback that describes the other party,warts and all.So if a buyer leaves a neg,eg,I didn't recieve the goods, and the seller leaves a 'dont use, worst ebayer ever' you can guess how they do their buisness.Of course, some of them are cute whores and leave a note under the neg, please resolve any disputes via email, not negative feedback, which usually gets me wondering who's the con artist.

This tool on goofbay.com will show neg or neutral feedback only.

dudara

These days, with the new feedback system, I have no hesitation in leaving a positive review with the exception of a low star rating for P&P.

morgana

You actually can see neg or neutral feedback only if you select Last 12 months in the drop-down box. Once the page has reloaded you'll see links for positive, neutral, nag and withdrawn feedback.
And the custom of the seller leaving feedback only after he/she has received the buyer's feedback annoys me no end. It holds the buyer to ransom. I've left neg feedback as a last resort for non-delivery and unresponsive seller (after having opend a dispute and paypal claim and waited for about 3 weeks) and suddenly the otherwise unresponsive seller was very quick to leave me retalatory neg feedback although I had fulfilled all my obligations as a buyer. In the end I received the item, but the seller still did not respond to any requests of withdrawing the neg feedback. The neg feedback doesn't bother him as a powerseller, but it really brings my rating down from a perfect 100% to below 98 %.

Colonel Sanders

morgana wrote:

The neg feedback doesn't bother him as a powerseller, but it really brings my rating down from a perfect 100% to below 98 %.

this is the case with me if I got undeserved negative feedback. I only use occasionally whereas one negative is a drop in the ocean to power selers. I mailed ebay about this practice, if enough people also do this maybe they'll do something about it.

You should respond to the negative feedback letting others know you paid immediately (and have receipts to prove it) and the negative left for you was retaliation. I have seen many people do this on ebay.

morgana

Colonel Sanders wrote:

You should respond to the negative feedback letting others know you paid immediately (and have receipts to prove it) and the negative left for you was retaliation. I have seen many people do this on ebay.

Oh I did but this still doesn't make up for the fact that this [insert expletives of choice] messed me about badly although I did not do anything wrong.
And I don't think eBay will be bothered to change their system ...

dubtom

Thanks KtK, a handy tool indeed.I just left a positive for a buyer, item just despatched but I recieved the payment. Have to admit though that the temptation is to hold off incase they play the fool.Item is as described and despatched with tracking, so it's up to the gods.

Our man in Havana

Leave "positive" feedback with actual negative comments. Would that work?

dubtom

morgana wrote:

You actually can see neg or neutral feedback only if you select Last 12 months in the drop-down box. Once the page has reloaded you'll see links for positive, neutral, nag and withdrawn feedback.

Excellent Morgana,thanks.

Colonel Sanders

Bond-007 wrote:

Leave "positive" feedback with actual negative comments. Would that work?

I don't think so as after a few more sales it won't be in ront of the buyer when they look at feedback. All they'll see is x% positive and base their opinion on that.

The guy I was on about contacted the seller, got no joy (he virtully admitted it was a ploy to lowr the advertised 'buy it now' price) so left neutral with a comment abot P&P rip off. the seller had left feedback for about 20 items at once and obviously hadn't noticed yer man wasn't one of the people who had left him feedback so there was no retaliatory feedback. He gave the seller every chance to reply to his complaint and got no joy so the seller can't complain.

Exit

I'm both a buyer and seller on eBay. It doesn't bother me when I've bought something and only receive feedback after I have given them feedback. Like someone said earlier, it can seem like you're being held to ransom to leave positive feedback, but overall it doesn't bother me.

As a seller, if someone pays me immediately or within 24 hours, I will give them feedback straight away. If they take their time paying me, then I'll wait until I know they've received the item to give them feedback.

On the issue of postage: I usually charge a euro or two extra what I think the actual postage will be. The reason I do that is to cover postage, cost of an envelope, eBay fee for listing the item and eBay fee for selling the item. I have no idea what postage costs usually so I'm sure there's been times where I've overcharged and likewise I'm sure there's been times where I've undercharged. I've never received any negative feedback or negative comments regarding postage.

Here's the thing I don't get: complaining about postage fees. If you're doing your homework properly, you know before you bid what the postage is going to be (it'll either be listed on the page, or you ask the seller) so if you don't like the postage fees then you don't bid on the item. Simple as that.

tech77

Didn't read the whole thread (sorry).

But if as a buyer i leave negative feedback for genuine reasons should i therefore necessarily expect negative feedback from the seller (even though they got payed).

I've noticed some sellers even state in their description they would leave negative feedback if they received it. WTF?

If this is indeed the case it makes a bit of a mockery of the feedback system TBH.

wba88

I too am constantly annoyed at this as when i have left feedback many of the sellers need reminding to leave me some, also some just dont bother. So after reading this I purchased a product from a power seller two days after i requested them to leave feedback, they did then the product arrived and i left them feedback. Perfect transaction - As it should always be!

Our man in Havana

tech77 wrote:

I've noticed some sellers even state in their description they would leave negative feedback if they received it. WTF?

This is clearly against the rules of ebay. Did you report the listing?

If this is indeed the case it makes a bit of a mockery of the feedback system TBH.

The whole feedback system is a joke tbh.

Most powersellers use bots to leave feedback. The bots ignore neg feedback and flag these for human attention.

Colonel Sanders

the feedback system is a joke. Ebay actively encourage you NOT to leave either neutral or negative feedback. The only time I ever left neutral I got an on screen message along the lines of 'neutral/negative feedback cannot be withdrawn, are you sure you want to proceed?'. Add in the e-mail response I received (which I posted above) and it makes a complete mockery of the whole system

tech77

Bond-007 wrote:

This is clearly against the rules of ebay. Did you report the listing?

No because i didn't realise at the time it was explicitly against the rules.
Will do in future i suppose.

TBH I tended to place a lot of faith in feedback when
buying in the past- with the comments in this thread now i'm not so sure..

Colonel Sanders

tech77 wrote:

TBH I tended to place a lot of faith in feedback when
buying in the past- with the comments in this thread now i'm not so sure..

Its a complete 'you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours' system and ebay don't care as the more positives that are left for sellers the 'safer' ebay looks for potential users.

piskins72

Colonel Sanders wrote:

Its a complete 'you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours' system and ebay don't care as the more positives that are left for sellers the 'safer' ebay looks for potential users.

I agree, my other half buys a lot of stuff on ebay, and has always given positive feedback to the seller, but only a small number of the sellers have done likewise, he has on occasion requested the feedback as already mentioned but more often than not its not done, very annoying :mad:

peteburnshndbag

This feedback thing is so annoying as a buyer. I'm new to E-bay and have only started buying stuff the past month or so. But, I am after having trouble with a seller who sent me the wrong runners. I read his profile, and noticed that he left neg feedback for any buyer that had problems with him. So now i havent left him any feedback yet and he hasnt for me either, cause i know if i do then i will receive my 1st neg feedback ever, and ruin my 100% rating.

Its totALLY not fair. As someone already said, all a buyer has to do is pay the money on time to hold up their end of the deal. Its upto the seller to make sure he sends the correct item etc. And if the seller is ripping people off or selling faulty goods, we cant even use the only power we have over them by leaving neg feedback, cause then they will just retaliate.

Its a joke and EBAY should bring in a new policy to deal with this, make it so that a buyer isnt able to leave their feedback until they receive some from the seller.

Something needs to be done. Sellers are getting away with ripping people off and Ebay dont give a ****e.

Oryx

peteburnshndbag wrote:

This feedback thing is so annoying as a buyer. I'm new to E-bay and have only started buying stuff the past month or so. But, I am after having trouble with a seller who sent me the wrong runners. I read his profile, and noticed that he left neg feedback for any buyer that had problems with him. So now i havent left him any feedback yet and he hasnt for me either, cause i know if i do then i will receive my 1st neg feedback ever, and ruin my 100% rating.

Its totALLY not fair. As someone already said, all a buyer has to do is pay the money on time to hold up their end of the deal. Its upto the seller to make sure he sends the correct item etc. And if the seller is ripping people off or selling faulty goods, we cant even use the only power we have over them by leaving neg feedback, cause then they will just retaliate.

Its a joke and EBAY should bring in a new policy to deal with this, make it so that a buyer isnt able to leave their feedback until they receive some from the seller.

Something needs to be done. Sellers are getting away with ripping people off and Ebay dont give a ****e.

Start a dispute about the runners if youre not getting sorted. If and when the whole matter is sorted out, (good or bad) then decide what feedback to leave. You could always leave a neutral with a comment to explain why. Even if you leave and receive a neg, your comments with the feedback will show any other user what the score is. Dont just say 'blah.. horrible seller'. Explain the goods were not correct. And I know we'd all like a perfect 100%, but 99% is perfectly acceptable. Anyone is allowed one bad transaction, and if they read your comment they will know it wasnt your fault. The system isnt perfect, but mainly it does work.