telescopic batons,

Deano045

are they legal here, if so were to get them on line or in shops?

thanks

Nothingcompares

It's my understanding that all weapons, with the exception of a muchete style knife are leagl to own once licenced as long as they stay on the mantel piece. What's illegal is the actions one takes with them. If you plan to be walking around the street with a baton because your worried about getting attacked by rowdy teenagers, that's illegal. Because you're concealing a weapon with an intention to use it. This is not legal advice.

Odysseus

To the best of my knowledge they are illegal.

PeakOutput

they are illegal there was a rumour of a shop selling them behind the counter in town but that stopped ages ago i got mine in crete but got rid of it ages ago as i didnt see the need for it in the end

Deano045

i see what you mean, what about a security guard? i no a few of them who have them, were i got the idea, i heard about that shop to

vasch_ro

They are illegal in public and are deemed as an offensive weapon under the firearms and offensive weapons act sec9(4), if you were ever caught with it you would find yourself in trouble with the boys in blue (and the girls too ) , my advice is stay well clear.

"(4) Where a person, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse (the onus of proving which shall lie on him), has with him in any public place—

( b ) any other article whatsoever made or adapted for use for causing injury to or incapacitating a person,

he shall be guilty of an offence."

A reasonable excuse would be that you had the article for work etc etc

Roper

Just to qualify what Vasch said- having one as a security man does not qualify as having one for work! For most security jobs anyway.

hardCopy

Incidentally the new telescopic batons that the Gardaí have are extremely cool.

PeakOutput

Roper wrote:

Just to qualify what Vasch said- having one as a security man does not qualify as having one for work! For most security jobs anyway.

ye id imagine they dont want to some how allow a loophole were every bouncer in town can have a baton and then whip it out against any drunk student

Dancor

You can get them at dealextreme.com, lots of useless crap for cheap and free shipping, I got one but it took a whole month for delivery, Was marked as a torch so no one suspected it, I think it cost 14 dollers.

vasch_ro

hardCopy wrote:

Incidentally the new telescopic batons that the Gardaí have are extremely cool.

they are good alright, very solid a good piece of Kit, i think they are the ASP brand, you would actually be quite wary of using them , and thanks Roper of course your right , you could have a knife or something stowed in your workbox for gutting fish, or carrying out work as an electrician etc

Andrew_M

Why would you want batton? I'd say your best bet is to steer clear of carrying weapons. If you use it and get caught(even in self defense) you're more than likely looking at a prosectuion. Vasch-ro was spot on with Sec 9(4), not worth the hassle man

Musashi

Very illegal to own, worse if you use it in an altercation!

Leave it to the Gardai mate!

ASP batons are good, but heavy and a bugger to close! Airweight versions trade off ease of carry against effective energy transfer.

Gardai should maybe look into the Monadnock Auto-Lock Baton? Just needs a button press to collapse the baton, might be handy when dealing with a cuffed suspect as well as a baton that just won't close!

I hope it's not the side handle extending baton the Gardai got? Anyone know what is issued?

I don't know about the legality of them, but they are easy to get hold of. My brother brought a savage baton back from prague. Its really solid and I'd imagine would do a lot of damage to someone.

wyk

Here's the set up I use here in Texas when I go out for a repo:



Technically, the baton is not legal to carry, but the gun is. However, since they made it legal to carry a gun with a permit, they purdy much stopped enforcing the baton law if you have a permit.

That is a 16" aluminum baton. In my role as a repoman, it isn't the size so much as the surprise. It comes out of my back pocket, telescopes out, and hits ya on the collar bone, knee, or in the elbow like I pulled it out of hyperspace. No one whom has received a smack has ever expected it. And one hit is enough. I would buy a steel one if I were to do it again, as it does hit harder, and isn't all that difficult to carry and conceal(no one can tell what it is even if it's sticking out of yer back pocket, except for the police). But you absolutely must not hit someone in the head with one. It can easily be deadly.

It may sound extreme, but my other option is the gun(and I've been in a couple of gunfights). Using peppers spray is for when someone car jacks me. Ya spray it inside the vehicle as they drive away. They will jump out shortly thereafter...

Remember, in Texas, it is legal for you to use lethal force to protect your property, and you can always use lethal force to protect yourself regardless of where you are. It's up to the jury to sort it out after the fact, tho, if the local law doesn't side with you while filing their report.

In any case, there's been at least two times I was able to avoid using the baton when a few folks started giving me trouble while I was running the yard and releasing police impounds at 4am simply buy pointing this at someone and informing them the proper choice is to come back tomorrow...in a more sober and friendly mood:



Yes, that's me. Hrm, the pony tail makes my hair look nearly presentable. I should wear it more often.

Wez

Musashi wrote:

Very illegal to own, worse if you use it in an altercation!

Leave it to the Gardai mate!

ASP batons are good, but heavy and a bugger to close! Airweight versions trade off ease of carry against effective energy transfer.

Gardai should maybe look into the Monadnock Auto-Lock Baton? Just needs a button press to collapse the baton, might be handy when dealing with a cuffed suspect as well as a baton that just won't close!

I hope it's not the side handle extending baton the Gardai got? Anyone know what is issued?

vasch_ro

Musashi wrote:

I hope it's not the side handle extending baton the Gardai got? Anyone know what is issued?

I checked mine, its an ASP telescopic baton, although we are to refer to it as a retractable baton.:rolleyes:

BrianD3

My understanding is they are legal to own but not legal to sell and not legal to import. They would also not be legal to carry in public as you can't really have a "reasonable excuse" for having one as their only purpose is for hitting people. It's not like a carpenter carrying a hammer on his way to work

2. It is hereby directed that section 12 of the Firearms and Offensive Weapons Act, 1990 (No. 12 of 1990), shall apply to the following descriptions of weapons:

( a ) a flick-knife, that is to say—

(i) a knife which opens when hand pressure is applied to a button, spring, lever or other device in or attached to the handle, or

(ii) a knife which has a blade which is released from the handle or sheath by the force of gravity or the application of centrifugal force and when released is locked in an open position by means of a button, spring, lever or other device;

( b ) a knuckleduster, that is to say—

(i) a band of metal or other hard material worn on one or more fingers, and designed to cause injury, or

(ii) any weapon incorporating a knuckleduster;

( c ) a swordstick or dagger cane, that is, a hollow walking-stick or cane containing a blade which may be used as a sword or dagger;

( d ) a sword umbrella, that is an umbrella containing a blade which may be used as a sword;

( e ) any weapon from which one or more sharp spikes protrude which is worn attached to the foot, ankle, hand or wrist (sometimes known when intended to be attached to the foot, as a footclaw and, when intended to be attached to the hand, as a handclaw);

( f ) the weapon sometimes known as a belt buckle knife, being a buckle which incorporates or conceals a knife;

( g ) the weapon sometimes known as a push dagger, being a knife the handle of which fits within a clenched fist and the blade of which protrudes from between two fingers;

( h ) the weapon sometimes known as a hollow kubotan, being a cylindrical container containing a number of sharp spikes;

( i ) the weapon sometimes known as a shuriken, shaken or death star, being a hard non-flexible plate having three or more sharp radiating points and designed to be thrown;

( j ) the weapon sometimes known as a balisong or butterfly knife, being a blade enclosed by its handle, which is designed to split down the middle, without the operation of a spring or other mechanical means, to reveal the blade;

( k ) the weapon sometimes known as a telescopic truncheon or telescopic billy, being a truncheon which extends automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in or attached to its handle;

( l ) the weapon sometimes known as a blowpipe or blow gun, being a hollow tube out of which hard pellets or darts are shot by the use of human breath;

( m ) the weapon sometimes known as a kusari gama, being a length of rope, cord, wire or chain fastened at one end to a sickle;

( n ) the weapon sometimes known as a kyoketsu shoge, being a length of rope, cord, wire or chain fastened at one end to a hooked knife;

( o ) the weapon sometimes known as a manrikigusari or kusari, being a length of rope, cord, wire or chain fastened at each end to a hard weight or hand grip;

( p ) the weapon sometimes known as a sap glove, being a glove into which metal or some other hard material has been inserted or to which metal or such material has been attached;

( q ) the broad knife known as a machete or matchet

And here is what you can't do with the above items

(1) Any person who—

( a ) manufactures, sells or hires, or offers or exposes for sale or hire, or by way of business repairs or modifies, or

( b ) has in his possession for the purpose of sale or hire or for 3 the purpose of repair or modification by way of business, or

( c ) puts on display, or lends or gives to any other person,

a weapon to which this section applies shall be guilty of an offence.

(6) The importation of a weapon to which this section applies is hereby prohibited.

Musashi

Rounds in the cylinder and finger on the trigger! :eek:

Guess the cameraman trusts you?

Is the revolver a Smith as well? .357 with Cor Bon .38 +P? or something ekse altogether

wyk

Musashi wrote:

Rounds in the cylinder and finger on the trigger! :eek:

Guess the cameraman trusts you?

Do they not have remote release or timed released cameras in Ireland or something?

Is the revolver a Smith as well? .357 with Cor Bon .38 +P? or something ekse altogether

Its a Smith And Wesson model 686 no dash given to me by my father in his will back in 1985. It is in 357 magnum with a 2.5" barrel or so(so LOTS of flame flies from the muzzle), stuffed with 6 rounds of 158 grain Double Tap ammunition(which, btw, I had DT post to my door):

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_27&products_id=49

Here's a side view:


That was my main revolver I had at the office. For carry I have a little 380.

Be glad you can't easily have these in Ireland, the murder rate by firearms in the States is ridiculous. It's one of the reasons I had guns.

Wez

Musashi

Not being funny, but when no sportsman could have them the paramilitaries did ok.

Heavily vetted shooters can now have handgun licenses.

It's never been a barrier to the drugs gangs though!

Off my soapbox now man, nice revolver and nice to see something other than Pachmyr on her!

gavin2010

does anyone know where i can get a baton??:):):)

ScottStorm

gavin2010 wrote: »

does anyone know where i can get a baton??:):):)

Either order one on the internet, or bring one back from your holidays to mainland europe.

gavin2010

:(anywhere in ireland???:(

Doug Cartel

They are considered an offensive weapon and there's no way you could claim they are a tool or collectors piece - hence they are illegal here. Selling them would be a crime, importing one would be a crime, simply possessing one is a crime.

Have some sense. Don't ask for advice on how to commit crimes on a public website.

NakedIrish

( k ) the weapon sometimes known as a telescopic truncheon or telescopic billy, being a truncheon which extends automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in or attached to its handle;

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but my interpretation of this is that if it is activated by a button or a switch or some other "device" attached to, or in its handle. Does this exclude inertia? As such, is it possible to one one legally, if it is not spring loaded and only extends when one flicks it at sufficient velocity as to overcome its sticking point and inertia?

Dyr

Maybe. You could probably argue the toss in court, if you feel like spending lots of money

NakedIrish

I'm only looking at it from a academic (not sure if thats the right word) standpoint... It would be an interesting case to look at though...

dlr1

The best legal weapons:

Plastic ballpoint pen

Door Key

Legal and lethal

Deise Musashi

Where a person, while committing or appearing to be about to commit an offence, or in the course of a dispute or fight, produces in a manner likely unlawfully to intimidate another person any article capable of inflicting serious injury, he shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable—

There are no "legal" weapons, use "any article" to cause injury and you are guilty of an offense.

Niall Keane

"while committing or appearing to be about to commit an offence"

" There are no "legal" weapons, use "any article" to cause injury and you are guilty of an offense"

It is not an offence to defend ones self! So therefore the rest of the statement in such a situation is void!
Obviously you should have a reason to have a weapon, at the time, to rule out any intent to commit an offence, electrician with a screwdriver is plausible!
Likewise I have a fine collection of swords, I have a young son, should someone break in I would obviously from a human animal perspective feel te need to protect, now an aggressor has a choice run or attack, if he attacks I hav no idea if he's armed or simply super powerful, and no idea what he would do to my son if he got past me, therefore I would be compelled to take him down as surely and quickly as possible, if a sabre happened to be at hand, I'll obviously use it to strengthen my chances.
Can't really see any jury not understanding that!
Clearly though there would be no reason for me to have a sabre at hand in temple bar in the early hours, so severing arteries in such a time an place might be difficult to explain?
Weapons should form part of martial arts, not only so you know how to use them but also how they can be used. Ground fighting used to be neglected by many MAs and that was highlighted in the 90's by the Gracie's, it's "relatively" easy to make things work that are outside of the scope of your opponent. Bladed weapons are seriously dynamic, hell even blunt staffs and sticks have many possibilities that most wouldnt consider, if you don't know how to use them, you could be unlucky using them and your opponent lucky enough to "discover" the unorthodox "in play".
Might be an interesting poll to see how many SDMA members actually train weapons?

Dyr

You can train with weapons without being weapon aware (so to speak) though

Niall Keane

Bambi wrote: »

You can train with weapons without being weapon aware (so to speak) though

True! Just like some train "ranges" striking grappling and ground, as seperate entities, and train them on different nights even!
But I think the beauty of "complete" systems is that they train all so "there is no difference", you can see it in the ring , lei tai or cage when some can for example "seamlessly" box their way out of a failed throw etc... Others are like those sharks who bite chained up meat and drown, unable to make a transition. "computer says no" and all.
For complete systems and fighters there is no separation, just obvious range differences etc.
When you have to re-invent the wheel re. Strategy, tactics and technique for each scenario you have already lost. Obvious, but I would say 99% of so called martial artists fall into this trap!

ry7704ng

Deano045 wrote: »

are they legal here, if so were to get them on line or in shops?

thanks

They are legal to own and carry, you can get them online and some gun shops may have them but they are hard to find. they are not legal to use for self defense however if you are stopped you can just say you use it as a rescue tool for breaking a window or to deter a threat rather than defend yourself. this is not legal advice but rather my understanding

Black Sheep

They are legal to own and carry, you can get them online and some gun shops may have them but they are hard to find. they are not legal to use for self defense however if you are stopped you can just say you use it as a rescue tool for breaking a window or to deter a threat rather than defend yourself. this is not legal advice but rather my understanding

You may have meant well, but this is all incorrect.