se €50 sat, 13 players left, 6tickets, AK in the bb.

ditpoker

we're 7 handed, i've 18k in chips, blinds are 600-1200, average stack 6 handed will be approx 40k when the tickets are won.

at my table no-one is playing partiuclarly tight or loose.
guy in mid postion playing about 15k makes it 2500 (this has been about the standard raise), cut off (11k) calls, button (13k) calls. small blind mucks and i look down at AK.

there is 9300 in the pot. how do we play AK in this spot?

EDIT: this is a satalite hand, top 6 get a ticket. does our play change if its a regular tournament?

phantom_lord

shove?

shove in a reg tourny too.

Flushdraw

Easier push ever.....

Whether it be a regular tournament or a satellite, its still a push. What other way is there to play it??

opr

Emmm Shove - what else could you do here ? This is not a difficult spot.

Opr

cardshark202

pushpushpushpushpushpushpushpushpushpushpushpushpokerisez

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

phantom_lord

lol jeffaments!

bottom feeder

Jeff you didnt fold/call here, did you..?

mrflash

Sats are very different, you dont need to win the tourney, you just need to qualify, and that changes everything. While the average might be 40k when you reach the six tickets, the average is not as real in this scenario. There will be bigger stacks and the real target you need to achieve is calculated by getting the stacks who are over that average and take their extra chips away from the combined total number of chips in play, it sometimes drops the average by up to 15%. And there will always be at least two stacks that are well below average who will make it. i would only flat call here at best and hope for a miracle unless of course that you think that a shove will induce mass folding immediately , the other thing is that it seems like quite a loose table to me by the sounds of that particular hand.

opr

I would say its more likely he pushed but lost.

Opr

mdwexford

Arguably the best/easiest shoving spot ive ever seen

mrflash

i dont understand why everyone says shove.

i have played many sats, and its always in situations like this one that the ak is no good. in fact i'd say the same thing about tourneys, these are the spots where you hear the lad walking out and his friend asks him what happened and he says ninety nine times out of 100, 'i had ak, and this fella called me with a pair of jacks or whatever and i didnt hit. one of the fellas at the table told me afterwards that he had a10'
now honestly, how can you say shove here, unless you know the other players and none of them are slow rolling a big pair, and none of them are loose enough to call with pocket 8's or something, because you just know that at least one ace is dead and maybe more.

and this is different to a tournament, you are not trying to win it outright, you just want to qualify. it doesnt matter if you have the most chips or the least.

mdwexford

mrflash wrote:

i dont understand why everyone says shove.

i have played many sats, and its always in situations like this one that the ak is no good. in fact i'd say the same thing about tourneys, these are the spots where you hear the lad walking out and his friend asks him what happened and he says ninety nine times out of 100, 'i had ak, and this fella called me with a pair of jacks or whatever and i didnt hit. one of the fellas at the table told me afterwards that he had a10'
now honestly, how can you say shove here, unless you know the other players and none of them are slow rolling a big pair, and none of them are loose enough to call with pocket 8's or something, because you just know that at least one ace is dead and maybe more.

and this is different to a tournament, you are not trying to win it outright, you just want to qualify. it doesnt matter if you have the most chips or the least.

This post makes me want to cry.

You dont even understand what slow-rolling is ffs!!!!

mrflash

ok sir, please explain how you decide to shove over the top without a pair and with so many players already in the pot, and please be detailed in your analysis.

phantom_lord

ak is the nuts pre flop 100bbs deep, nevermind 15.

OutOfPosition

mrflash wrote:

ok sir, please explain how you decide to shove over the top without a pair and with so many players already in the pot, and please be detailed in your analysis.

wtf, either your trolling or you have not got a clue

opr

mrflash wrote:

ok sir, please explain how you decide to shove over the top without a pair and with so many players already in the pot, and please be detailed in your analysis.

Yeah but your forgetting we have 6 outs with AK and he only has 2 with his pair so we are the favourite.

Opr

strewelpeter

Satellite play is different and IMO in a sat this is even more of a shove than in an ordinary tourney.
There are going to be occasional times in a tourney that you might want to mix it up and raise or even flat call but in a satellite you never ever want to call.
Here the OP with AK has the biggest stack in play, he shoves and its up to the callers to decide if they want to go bust. Sometimes a raise will do it but here there is no sane decision but to shove.

Here is a link to what I think is a very good article about satellite play:
part 1
part 2

BTW It ended up tonight that Vera won her seat with less than 8K left and blinds of 1K / 2K having survived being down to 3K While another short stack about 10K who said he was only going to play AA and KK got his AA and shoved with it into the Monster stack who called blind and made a house to his J9 !

mrflash

AK is the one hand in the top group of hands that suffers badly in multi way action. Our hero in the scenario given has already seen a raise and two callers, ak is a massive hand if you can guarantee yourself heads up action, but with two callers to a raiser, can you guarantee yourself heads up action. I understand that this hand is powerful, but its the hand that a lot of people go out of tournaments with, and its usually in situations like this one.

White Knight

mrflash wrote:

AK is the one hand in the top group of hands that suffers badly in multi way action. Our hero in the scenario given has already seen a raise and two callers, ak is a massive hand if you can guarantee yourself heads up action, but with two callers to a raiser, can you guarantee yourself heads up action. I understand that this hand is powerful, but its the hand that a lot of people go out of tournaments with, and its usually in situations like this one.

From your posts I swear, in a tournament, you wait for Aces every time before going all in?!!

mdwexford

mrflash wrote:

AK is the one hand in the top group of hands that suffers badly in multi way action. Our hero in the scenario given has already seen a raise and two callers, ak is a massive hand if you can guarantee yourself heads up action, but with two callers to a raiser, can you guarantee yourself heads up action. I understand that this hand is powerful, but its the hand that a lot of people go out of tournaments with, and its usually in situations like this one.

Edit - I read the thread wrong my post was rubbish

mrflash

I agree with you for the most part, but the very last point is what worries me, and thats the two callers, its seems very loose to me, so unless i am certain that i can get all bar one to fold i don't want this action.

Van Dice

opr wrote:

Yeah but your forgetting we have 6 outs with AK and he only has 2 with his pair so we are the favourite.

Opr

QFT
This is the new FTOP

ditpoker

just to clear it up a bit... i did shove, original raiser had aces and i was left crippled with about 2k at the 600-1200 level and was out soon after.

Lloyd "i think its a fold jeff, cos its a sat" ...hence the post!

lol lloydaments!

CaptainNemo

I would push here almost every time, unless I know that the original raiser is a total rock whose raising range is minimum AQ+, TT+ here.

You're most likely to see yourself up against a small pair or two and a weaker ace here. A push may make everyone fold. If you get called the only hands that you are upset to see are AA and KK. You need to accumulate chips sometime to ensure yourself a seat, since 18k is not enough to fold and wait for aces.

If you were on the bubble and didn't have the shortest stack then it's a fold I guess.

RoundTower

I think it's closer than people think, but you should push.

I think if you push everyone will fold, unless the original raiser has KK+ or maybe QQ.

strewelpeter

RoundTower wrote:

I think it's closer than people think, but you should push.

I think if you push everyone will fold, unless the original raiser has KK+ or maybe QQ.

.

Do you agree that this is more true in a satellite than in a normal tourney?