Skirmish types

bewildered

Ok, now, I am aware that this is coming from someone who has never played the sport before, but I was just wondering about skirmish types.

I've noticed that most AEGs are advertised as coming with hi-cap magazines. What im curious about is how this might affect the gameplay of skirmishes. I understand the reason for them doing this is that it's cheaper than sending people out the same capacity of rounds in multiple clips, but the high amounts of ammo would surely not lead to people firing without thought, making stalemates or stand-offs much more drawn out.

The only reason I say this, is that, well, in the last few days I've been trying to picture the type of play that would exist, (I get bored in work you see, so my brain is a welcome hideout from reality:rolleyes: ). Having the potential for several thousand bbs on your person (for example in 4 spare hi-cap clips) would surely lead to firing indiscriminately, without thinking of such ideas as moderation or rationing.

Now, please, dont take this as an attack on your sport, Im simply trying to get to grips with the style of airsofting. I've been paintballing before, and after two games I found that a: running back to the safezone to re-arm was time consuming and b: I simply couldnt afford to reload more than twice!

Do most people use mid-caps? I personally love the idea of reloading, especially during a firefight. Understandeably, with a weapon that fires at 700 rounds per minute a clip is gone in under 4 seconds, but still, maybe that would be better, in a tactical way. Wait for the other guy to reload sort of thing. Also the sound of all those bbs rattling around in the clip would make me feel 'cheap'.

I have no idea why though...


Any thoughts, opinions, carrots are welcome.

N.O.I.P.

The general consensus on this board seems to be Hi-Caps = Bad but I gotta say I quite like em, they offer an offensive capability that can be sorely lacking when on a team where people use nothing but mids, for example 3 or 4 guys with hi-caps can alternate suppressive fire while advancing on a target and essentially keep it pinned down until somebody has a shot. Its a highly effective technique and one that the USMC etc are using to great effect at the moment. Now invariably you will have people complain about the rattle when they run but guys lets be honest do you really think that you don't make noise running anyway?

Fiach Dubh

Both myself and all my team use Mid-caps. I find the added requirement of having to reload often brings an even greater level of tension to the game. Not having to wind the mag and not having them rattle is a bonus too. Trigger control comes into play too when you have a lower capacity magazine as you try to stretch the mags out over play time. Most of the time I'll be firing 3 shot bursts or pumping single rounds at the target. My BB consumption is very low because of it and one bag of BB's will usually last me 4-6 days worth of gaming.

That being said I don't denegrate anyone for using High-caps, it's the users choice what to take.

bewildered

Oh I'm under no impression that they are bad in terms of tactical usage. But I guess it depends on if you're airsofting to be realistic to modern combat, or whether you're airsofting for airsofting sake (that sounds a lot more negative than I want it to!)

I would assume the USMC would be restricted to clips of about 30 rounds a piece, meaning that while they probably do use this tactic, reloading would be incorporated into the firing order.Therefore I'd say that this tactic wouldn't be exclusive to hi-caps.

Also, in terms of sound, I couldnt really care how loud it is, theres probably a lot more loud things in my body, for example the wheezing gasping for air as I try to run more than 2 feet, or my cursing as I crack my knee of the bottom of my clip. I think its just the sound would detract from the authenticity of the experience, thats all.

Im not trying to deride anyone who uses them, just wondering what everyones experience is in terms of tactical usage.

God listen to me, I sound like i know what the hell Im talking about... Ill shut up now

Fiach Dubh

Well in terms of tactcal usage I can assure you that using mid-caps has caused no disadvantage to my team, we have the kill scores to prove it The only place I draw the line is real-caps against hi-caps. I bought ten 30 round AK mags last year and haven't used them in a skirmish yet. I'd only use them in a milsim game where everyone was using real-caps.

bewildered

Ten?? Christ, you must be like a walking tank with all those on you. They all metal?

Fiach Dubh

Unfortunatly not, I only know of plastic AK real-caps at the moment. I think the closest you can get is 65 round metal AK lo-caps.

bewildered

Thank god. I was about to ask you what you bench press

Fiach Dubh

LOL my kits heavy enough as it is and I always seem to have something new to add to it. If it keeps up I'll have to attach wheels to my boots

[--SC(+)PE--]

Both myself and all my team use Mid-caps. I find the added requirement of having to reload often brings an even greater level of tension to the game. Not having to wind the mag and not having them rattle is a bonus too. Trigger control comes into play too when you have a lower capacity magazine as you try to stretch the mags out over play time. Most of the time I'll be firing 3 shot bursts or pumping single rounds at the target. My BB consumption is very low because of it and one bag of BB's will usually last me 4-6 days worth of gaming.

That being said I don't denegrate anyone for using High-caps, it's the users choice what to take.

agreed

bullets

I got to buy me some mid-caps not because they are any use to me skirmishing
or anything but for no other reason that I dont like my AEG's rattling when I pick them
up and start handling them.

~B

Hivemind187

Support Weapons like the SAW or the M60 tend to have Box mags which operate on the same principal as high caps (normally a windup but there are electrical and sound operated ones too). This is by necessity since they tend to carry around 1000 rounds (or up to 3500 rounds in a C-mag). With these weapons you basically have no choice other than high caps at the moment unless you want to put mid-cap M16 mags into a SAW - but whats the point in that?

High caps in a assault rifle unit (M series, Styer etc) make sense from the point of view of not reloading every 5 seconds of spray fire and having to buy fewer mags over all. High caps also have to be wound-up all the time which can be annoying when you need to rely on your AEG to fire and instead dry fire or worse get that nasty whizzing noise as the mag spring unravels.

Mid caps make sense for those who want their AEG not to rattle, enjoy the more realistic feeling of changing mags during contact and they dont require winding just lock-load-fire. The downside is that you will need to buy more of them and even though they are individually cheaper they end up costing you more in the long run. The other downside is it can take an absolute age to load half a dozen mid caps by hand without a loading tool (the TM loading tube is not an imporvement rather a sick joke).

Lo-caps are basically the same set up as mid-caps only are limited to the real-world magazine capacity (as if you didnt know). Mainly used by Mil-Sim types who want to be ultra realistic.

bewildered

TBH, I might be wrong, but I dont see much point in low caps, even for mil sim. With most AEGs having such an un-natural ROF, unless everyone uses semi I would think it would actually be less realistic. Normal military training would push for 3 round bursts on full auto. Whereas (from the depths of my knowledge, all of which is based on youtube videos ) airsoft seems that at minimum you might et 5 per short burst.

Hivemind187

bewildered wrote:

TBH, I might be wrong, but I dont see much point in low caps, even for mil sim. With most AEGs having such an un-natural ROF, unless everyone uses semi I would think it would actually be less realistic. Normal military training would push for 3 round bursts on full auto. Whereas (from the depths of my knowledge, all of which is based on youtube videos ) airsoft seems that at minimum you might et 5 per short burst.

Actually the rate of fire on most Airsoft units is similar to that of the real steel counterparts, only marginally fast in most cases.

The reason to use lo-caps is if you are running a milsim it reflects the live device more accurately i.e. limiting the number of rounds carried by any particular player to set standard.

Three round burst is actually a specific trigger grouping of certain firearms (as is 2 round and 4 round) rather than tentative full-auto bursts.

kdouglas

actually, i read quite a convincing forum post/rant a while back about how hi-caps are more realistic than real-caps, given that bb's are complete inaccurate in comparison to real bullets and dont have anywhere near similar range, so if you consider with real steel where you'd normally fire one shot, with airsoft you'd fire 2/3, so for a 2/3 round burst equivalent to real, you'd probably fire 7-10 bb's to account for innaccuracy and such

i still dont like hi-caps all that much, despise winding them, dont have that problem with my p90 which i mainly use at the moment, but when i use another aeg it annoys me, so personally ill go with mid-caps

Hivemind187

kdouglas wrote:

actually, i read quite a convincing forum post/rant a while back about how hi-caps are more realistic than real-caps, given that bb's are complete inaccurate in comparison to real bullets and dont have anywhere near similar range, so if you consider with real steel where you'd normally fire one shot, with airsoft you'd fire 2/3, so for a 2/3 round burst equivalent to real, you'd probably fire 7-10 bb's to account for innaccuracy and such

i still dont like hi-caps all that much, despise winding them, dont have that problem with my p90 which i mainly use at the moment, but when i use another aeg it annoys me, so personally ill go with mid-caps

But then again, military personnel would generally operate at greater distance than your average airsofter.

Considering the accuracy of some of the units out there and the choice of BB grades you could argue that it is merely the ineptitude of the operator that requires expedning all the extra rounds - precisely the position of the hard-core MilSim heads (Mainly South East Asia and US)

bewildered

Another random question. What firing mode do people use? As in personal preference. semi or full?

Jelly 292

Semi= Trigger Lag

Getting 9v battery specifically to reduce this.

And for the record Im getting a load of mid caps because:
A: the winding and
B: they are noisey as fuk when you are sneaking around.Its the only noise I make if I can help it

Hivemind187

bewildered wrote:

Another random question. What firing mode do people use? As in personal preference. semi or full?

Depends on what you are trying to do.

If you are trying to supress the enemy, hit multiple targets at shortish range or provide cover then full-auto.

If you are trying to conserve ammo and take out a single target at a medium/longer range then semi-auto gives you greater accuracy.

Think of it this way, full-auto will give you a stream of fire that is rather like sending a high velocity cloud at your target. Reliable to hit but expensive, noisy and not exactly subtle.

Semi auto is more selective and preferable when you have the time to aim and line up a single round to take out a single target.

Jelly 292

Semi auto is more selective and preferable when you have the time to aim and line up a single round to take out a single target.

In real steel yes but with an AEG there is that very noticible gap between sqeezing the trigger and the piston slamming home.

I leave it on Full Auto all the time at the moment to conter this, it does not follow that I let rip all every time I shoot tho.

Roll on 9.6v and maybe Semi becomes a real option:rolleyes:

Hivemind187

Jelly 292 wrote:

In real steel yes but with an AEG there is that very noticible gap between sqeezing the trigger and the piston slamming home.

I leave it on Full Auto all the time at the moment to conter this, it does not follow that I let rip all every time I shoot tho.

Roll on 9.6v and maybe Semi becomes a real option:rolleyes:

Ah ... but thats what a MOSFET is for.

Jelly 292

Ah ... but thats what a MOSFET is for.

CrazyRabbit

bewildered wrote:

Another random question. What firing mode do people use? As in personal preference. semi or full?

What? You mean these AEG's have an option for Semi automatic fire? Why didn't someone tell me before!

No wonder I was using 2000-3000 bb's per day.