Rang Justice.....Again

kowloon

So, rang justice,..again, was on to a different person, and this time the story is that your firearms cert IS your export license outside the EU, end of story.

So with the posts, the justice website and someone from justice saying it i think its safe to say that the person who told me i needed an export license was wrong.

End post.

rrpc

kowloon wrote:

So, rang justice,..again, was on to a different person, and this time the story is that your firearms cert IS your export license outside the EU, end of story.

Except it's really your import licence. The guy sending the firearm has the export licence.

Sorry for the pedantry, but I'd hate to see more confusion on this topic.

To sum up: For any frearms import from outside the EU (and that includes category B firearms) you just need your licence and (usually) a form of identification such as a copy of your passport.

freddieot

This topic seeems never ending so as I have some experience in this area I'm going to lay it out. (Believe what you want this is the way it works).
To clarify 'or possible confuse this even more. Whether you can import or export is firstly subject to Customs & Excise control. (Dept Revenue not Justice).

To import a firearm (from anywhere), all that is needed for this is a current Firearms Certificate. That is all that CUSTOMS require.

However, in order for an EU citizen (ie: dealer) to EXPORT a Firearm to you he will need you to get and send him an Article 7. As this is only an EU Intrastate transaction document, you don't need to get one when importing from the US or other non-EU countries (crazy I know).

All firearms entering the country are supposed to be presented to Customs, whether they come by post, Courier company or with someone.

Assuming it is posted\courier then for items from EU countries you will need to show Customs your Firearms Certificate (that's all) before they release it to you. For items arriving from USA and other countries you will also need to pay duty and VAT.

I think the current rate of duty on firearms is about 3%. The postage charges are added to the value before any calculations are done. Here is an example :

Rifle from USA with cost $900 + postage cost $100 = $1,000 total cost.
Duty on $1,000 = $30. Now VAT is calculated, $1,030 @ 21% = $216.30.
Duty $30 + $216.30 = $246.30 = (approx €182 + €5 Post Office Admin Charge).

However, the administrators in their wisdom, perhaps over a Chardonnay in Brussels, deem it necessary to also apply to the DOJ for an article 11 for firearms imported from the EU, which in effect is a totally rediculous duplication of the article 7.

rrpc

freddieot wrote:

However, the administrators in their wisdom, perhaps over a Chardonnay in Brussels, deem it necessary to also apply to the DOJ for an article 11 for firearms imported from the EU, which in effect is a totally rediculous duplication of the article 7.

Very succinct freddie. The only issue I would have is with the Article 11. I believe that it's the real import licence, the Article 7 is an application for an import licence. The exporter gets the Article 11 and never sees the Article 7 AFAIK.

The other thing to note is that the Article 7/11 is only for Category B firearms (pistols). It's not required for rifles and shotguns although you do need to fill out and send an import/export application form to the DoJ.

bigred

OK, sorry to do this, but I've one more for the mix...
What if the item you're importing into Ireland is NOT a firearm in the country of origin. i.e. You want to buy a 10m air rifle, sub 12ft/lbs from the UK. Obviously your cert will need to accompany the shipment, but is any other documentation required?
Sorry to add this but it seems we're the only ones in the EU with a firearms definition on competition airguns and hence the eu stuff (which I've read in detail) doesnt have mention of it. I'm sure plenty of people have been down this road?

rrpc

As regards airguns, I believe you still need your licence and to fill in the import/export form from the DoJ. You don't need to send your licence to the exporter, but it helps because either way it'll land in customs and you'll have to produce for them anyway.

bigred

rrpc wrote:

As regards airguns, I believe you still need your licence and to fill in the import/export form from the DoJ. You don't need to send your licence to the exporter, but it helps because either way it'll land in customs and you'll have to produce for them anyway.

Thanks for that. When I get out to Wilkinstown, I'll have a chat with Geoff or Mark about it.

freddieot

Good point about something not being classed as a firearm in another country. The golden rule of thumb would be that once it enters Ireland it is Irish Law that applies so you would always need a licence depending on the status of it here.

The Article 7 form is not an application for anything. It gives the holder agreement from the Government to purchase \ acquire the firearm in another country, basically subject to the possession of a domestic Firearms Certificate issued by the Gardaí (ie: subject to provisions of the firearms acts).

The Article 7, not the Article 11 is the document which the exporter should obtain as it is their proof that the purchase of the firearm has been approved by the buyer's State of Residence. (Otherwise, if buying from Germany for example, you would need a German Licence !) Whether you have a legitimate import licence is not a concern, in the strictest sense, for the foreign dealer.

The Article 11 was primarily intended to be a document used by dealers rather than individuals hence the apparent duplication. One could argue quite reasonably that there is no need for an Article 11, as by virtue of a domestice FC and an Article 7, being issued, all the necessary required permissions under law have already been given. (Permission to acquire and permission to possess). Article 11 is realistically just additional beurocracy, more to do with recording of EU movement of restricted good rather than anything important like the security of the State. Still, while it's free and they're happy ! !!

kowloon

rrpc wrote:

Except it's really your import licence. The guy sending the firearm has the export licence.

Sorry for the pedantry, but I'd hate to see more confusion on this topic.

To sum up: For any frearms import from outside the EU (and that includes category B firearms) you just need your licence and (usually) a form of identification such as a copy of your passport.

Mistake, i know the difference, honestly!!:D