iTunes and Laser cards

Breezer

Those of you who (like myself) don't have credit cards but make frequent use of a Laser card have probably noticed the strange fact that while you can use a Laser card to buy stuff in the Irish Apple Online Store, you can't use it in the Irish iTunes Store.

I know you can buy 3v vouchers, but I don't see why I should fork out €5 to Permanent TSB every time I want to buy a few songs. Or why I should pay the €40 a year tax to buy a credit card I wouldn't use for anything else.

I've discovered that you can buy iTunes gift vouchers on the Apple Online Store, using a Laser if you want. For a company that makes its name selling products that link together to provide a seamless user experience, this seems a bit mad though.

I've sent the following feedback to Apple from the form at http://www.apple.com/feedback/itunesapp.html. If anyone else has ever found themselves in the same situation, I'd encourage you to do the same. It'll probably be ignored because Apple have some good reason for not accepting Laser on iTunes, but you never know

Dear Sirs,

This question is directed towards those running the Irish iTunes store. Apologies if I have sent this to the US customer support, but I found it difficult to find a contact form specifically for the Irish store.

My question relates to the use of Irish Laser debit cards on the iTunes store. At present, these are not accepted. Laser is the most commonly issued debit card in Ireland, with over 1 million customers. They are issued by 7 major financial institutions, including AIB and Bank of Ireland, the two largest banks. Almost every Irish shop that accepts cards accepts Laser, as do the majority of Irish websites and the Irish Apple Online Store.

While I accept that the Apple Store and the iTunes Store may be managed separately, I would urge you, in light of these statistics, to please consider accepting Laser cards in the Irish iTunes Store. At the moment, since I do not possess or desire to possess a credit card, my one solution is to buy an iTunes gift card in the Apple Online Store using my Laser card, and subsequently use this on iTunes. For a company such as Apple, which prides itself on ease of use and joined-up thinking when it comes to its products, this is something of an anomaly. Surely if one of your company's stores can accept these cards, another can too?

Thank you for taking the time to consider my suggestion and for providing an excellent service, this one issue aside. I look forward to hearing from you.

Kind regards,
...

Anyone got a take on this?

Cabaal

Would be a handy feature, personally I just buy myself a gift cert every few months with my credit card so I don't have loads of small purchases going through now and then, I'd prefer to have one 30e or whatever when I buy the gift.

Helps me keep track, but in saying that Laser would be very handy

Breezer

Update: Apple came back to me, and directed me to http://www.apple.com/feedback/itunesapp.html. So if anyone does want to suggest this to them use that link. I'll edit the one above now too to reflect this.

setanta5

A lot of websites with any sort of international hosting won't allow you to use debit cards because by their nature they are limited to small regions. I could be wrong but i'm fairly sure if you go into the uk iTunes you will not get an option for Switch cards. The alternative is Visa Electron. Its Visa's version of a debit card and a lot of Financial institutions around the world are now picking it up as their Debit card of choice...because in theory it should be accepted anywhere a Visa is accepted.

Aer Lingus is one fo the few websites available internationally that will allow Laser & switch use, i assume because they knwo the bulk of their customers are going to be uk/Ireland based and catering for that element that don't have credit cards makes sense. But for apple, to go around all the european debit card providers and set up the ability to use their individual debit cards just isn't economical in my opinion. I'm sure there are merchant fees involved with using each different type of card so fewer with higher user base is preferrable.

ZENER

Don't all O2 stores sell iTunes cards in 5, 10, & 20 euro denomination ? Better option IMO.

ZEN

Breezer

Zener, I don't know if O2 sell them, they probably do since they sell a lot of Mac stuff. 3G stores also sell them. But it's less convenient than using a Laser. Not a huge deal, I probably will end up doing this, but I just thought I'd throw this idea out there and see what people thought.

Setanta that makes sense, except that the Apple Store at apple.ie accepts Laser. If Apple can accept it there, why not on the Irish iTunes store? I admit I have very little understanding of business and iTunes could be trading as a separate company for all I know, but it just seems strange.

You also mention Switch cards that are issued in the UK. My understanding is that both Switch and Laser have been replaced by Maestro, Mastercard's version of Visa Electron, and that the Laser/Switch branding is now kept for familiarity more than anything else. Since Masetro is an international debit card (I've used my Laser/Maestro card with no hassle* in France), surely this would be a viable option for Apple?

*When I say no hassle, I meant the French card terminal and the hotel's bank had no problem processing it. The guy on reception was another matter. Took me about 10 minutes of bilingual conversation to convince him that it wasn't just an ATM card, that there was a sticker on the door saying the hotel accepted it, and to just try the damn thing and see what happened

Cabaal

ZENER wrote:

Don't all O2 stores sell iTunes cards in 5, 10, & 20 euro denomination ? Better option IMO.

ZEN

yep they do, as do 3G stores, I could be wrong but I think even Xtravision might.

imho its the handiest way forward for somebody without a credit card or is not happy with using the net for purchasing stuff....yep these people exist

Richard

setanta5 wrote:

I could be wrong but i'm fairly sure if you go into the uk iTunes you will not get an option for Switch cards.

Ah, but Switch cards have been phased out over the past few years, to be replaced by Maestro cards. Maestro cards are accepted by the UK iTunes store.

And, according to Wikipedia:

Since 2005, Allied Irish Banks (AIB) and Bank of Ireland account holders are receiving co-branded Laser/Maestro card. Since October 2006, Ulster Bank and its sister company First Active, have been issuing Laser cards co-branded with Maestro. These are Chip and PIN cards with both Laser and Maestro functions. Within Ireland, they function primarily as Laser cards, outside they function as Maestro cards. All other Laser partners are to issue Chip and PIN cards, and this will allow them to co brand with other debit card brands.

I'm not sure whether Maestro is accepted by the Irish iTunes store but it's worth checking in case (a) your card also has a Maestro logo or (b) you could get one that does.

Breezer

Richard wrote:

I'm not sure whether Maestro is accepted by the Irish iTunes store but it's worth checking in case (a) your card also has a Maestro logo or (b) you could get one that does.

Yeah it's Maestro as well, this is the point I'm making, the same thing is happening to Laser here as is happening to Switch in the UK. But no, the Irish store doesn't accept Maestro.

Richard

Breezer wrote:

Yeah it's Maestro as well, this is the point I'm making, the same thing is happening to Laser here as is happening to Switch in the UK. But no, the Irish store doesn't accept Maestro.

That's odd, then. I think all the European iTunes stores are based in one country (Luxembourg?) so it's odd that Maestro isn't available in ROI if it is in the UK, especially since "UK and Ireland" is one business unit.

Carroller16

Anybody got any idea where the gift cards are now sold. Tesco in Rathmines has stopped doing them and I can see nothing on the O2 or Xtra-Vision Website.

Dman001

HMV sell gift vouchers too.

mymo

The two Tesco's near me still had the vouchers last time i looked(3 weeks ago).
I think Argos do them, and I thought I saw them in Dunnes too.
I buy them from time to time, but using Laser would be handy. 99c a song means you always have few cent left on the account, just never enough to buy a song.

Ham'nd'egger

Carroller16 wrote: »

Anybody got any idea where the gift cards are now sold. Tesco in Rathmines has stopped doing them and I can see nothing on the O2 or Xtra-Vision Website.

I recently purchased one in HMV while the last one I bought before Xmas was from Tesco in Nutgrove.

Carroller16

got one in O2. I seen HMV are selling them only yesterday.

MarcusFenix

Paypal...gift, it takes like 7 days to start up but once this is done you can instantly transfer money to it and buy from itunes (internet banking required)

Dr.Sanchez

Wow... reviving a thread thats been dead for three years!

Breezer

00Blaine00 wrote: »

Wow... reviving a thread thats been dead for three years!

Don't tell me I'm STILL on that feckin' island!

banquo

Though gift vouchers are available, they should still take laser. To be fair.

Edit: Also, PayPal!

MarcusFenix

Ha! ya I know the things been dead but still its funny, I always come back here for info on the subject! Just got my paypal sorted so said id spread the word!:rolleyes:;)

Ham'nd'egger

banquo wrote: »

Though gift vouchers are available, they should still take laser. To be fair.

Edit: Also, PayPal!

They do accept Laser on the Apple Store so vouchers can be purchased there if you like.

MarcusFenix

Yes you can but they are snail mailed :eek:

zippygirl

wait wait, paypal? Arent there other methods of buying online besides having to use a credit card?
With paypal you have to have a bank account and the likes, isnt there something easier?

MarcusFenix

I don't know, I spent most of an hour on the phone to an Apple rep telling em to sort it out and let us use laser, obviously they are bringing it into effect now!:p

Anyway im sure everyone, well most people anyway should have at least a bank account now, if not online banking.

take it from me, cash will be obsolete in 10 years, I know what im talking about, ive got glasses!!:cool:

Killer Pigeon

zippygirl wrote: »

wait wait, paypal? Arent there other methods of buying online besides having to use a credit card?
With paypal you have to have a bank account and the likes, isnt there something easier?

Well you could get a 3V voucher and add it to a paypal account. You don't actually need a bank account or a credit card for this method although a 3V voucher is a bit like a debit card. Just register for a 3V card online and they'll post one to you. Then go to a newsagents (like spar) and you can buy a 3V voucher using your 3V card with whatever amount you want. Go to PayPal and add the 3V voucher under Visa.

MarcusFenix

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Well you could get a 3V voucher and add it to a paypal account. You don't actually need a bank account or a credit card for this method although a 3V voucher is a bit like a debit card. Just register for a 3V card online and they'll post one to you. Then go to a newsagents (like spar) and you can buy a 3V voucher using your 3V card with whatever amount you want. Go to PayPal and add the 3V voucher under Visa.

Well that's going the long way around really cos I'm using my 3G straight up with iTunes at the moment, no need for paypal for iTunes for me anyway!

whiterebel

MarcusFenix wrote: »

take it from me, cash will be obsolete in 10 years, I know what im talking about, ive got glasses!!:cool:

Ah, but did you know Garlic Bread would be the future......?:p

MarcusFenix

I did, AND I predicted France would leave the World Cup Early

frankgrimes123

hi does anyone know if I can create an account for the ipad app store without using a credit card

whiterebel

frankgrimes123 wrote: »

hi does anyone know if I can create an account for the ipad app store without using a credit card

Buy a free app, it will then give you the option for no card.

legs27

Hi folks.

Resurrected my itunes account from a few years ago there recently. I didn't have a credit card then nor do I have one now. I gave up on iTunes before because of this.

Having taken into consideration all of the above advice I went to the itunes store online to purchase an i tunes voucher using my laser card however when clicking the link it automatically opened up my iTunes software and brought me staright to the billing page where there is 1 of four options (visa, mastercard, amex & "clickandbuy" of which I have none).

Is it the case that this laser card option has also been shut down? Please advise.

Mise le meas,
legs27

Sad Professor

There never was a Laser card option for the iTunes Store.

whiterebel

legs27 wrote: »

Hi folks.

Resurrected my itunes account from a few years ago there recently. I didn't have a credit card then nor do I have one now. I gave up on iTunes before because of this.

Having taken into consideration all of the above advice I went to the itunes store online to purchase an i tunes voucher using my laser card however when clicking the link it automatically opened up my iTunes software and brought me staright to the billing page where there is 1 of four options (visa, mastercard, amex & "clickandbuy" of which I have none).

Is it the case that this laser card option has also been shut down? Please advise.

Mise le meas,
legs27

You could buy an itunes card in Tesco?

Solair

Laser card will be consigned to history later this year, as AIB and Bank of Ireland switch to Visa Debit, with contactless payment too! PayWave.

Ulster Bank and Permanent TSB switched to visa debit over a year ago and I'd say any of the small banks will have no choice but to go with visa or Mastercard debit as the Laser infrastructure will be shutdown once the two largest users, AIB and BOI complete their migration in 2013. I'd suspect they'll take a while to roll it out as cards expire and get replaced by Visa.

If you really want a visa debit card now, you can always open a PTSB or Ulster account.

legs27

Thanks for the advice lads.

@Solair - Do you know when AIB are rolling out their Visa debit cards? I rang phone banking last week and the lad answering my queries was unable to tell me.

The Visa debit is a great facility. I had one when in Australia in 2007. Generally I found the Aussies to lag behind in 90 % of things but I could not fault their banking system. AIB are only rolling out Visa debit now. Aussies 5 or more years ahead of them. Don't like being cynical but this speaks for itself really.

taylorconor95

Strange because I'm an Apple developer, and iTunes Connect (for uploading apps) accepts laser for both payment and receiving money from apps...

Solair

legs27 wrote: »

Thanks for the advice lads.

@Solair - Do you know when AIB are rolling out their Visa debit cards? I rang phone banking last week and the lad answering my queries was unable to tell me.

The Visa debit is a great facility. I had one when in Australia in 2007. Generally I found the Aussies to lag behind in 90 % of things but I could not fault their banking system. AIB are only rolling out Visa debit now. Aussies 5 or more years ahead of them. Don't like being cynical but this speaks for itself really.

Laser is a small, national debit card scheme that is owned mutually by the Irish banks and operated via a company called Laser Card Service Ltd. From the banks' perspective, it was originally a good idea as it meant that they had 100% ownership of the scheme and did not have to pay for use of other transaction networks like Visa. So, for a long time it suited their needs quite well.

However, in recent years the European Union has passed laws requiring that all of the various national debit card schemes work Europe-wide. So, Laser card issuers initially started co-branding with Maestro Card. This gives some level of acceptance outside Ireland, but it doesn't work online.

So, one by one the banks have switched away from Laser. Halifax Ireland launched a Visa Debit card in 2007. Ulster Bank followed a year later in 2008 and then Permanent TSB in 2010. The two largest banks then seem to have decided that it's a better system and are not going to maintain Laser.

Apart from the EU directive requiring interoperability around Europe, it's also probably becoming increasingly expensive and difficult to keep Laser Card's technology up-to-date. Visa and MasterCard have far better security systems.

Obviously, online transactions and security are a huge selling point too and I would suspect that AIB and BOI have lost customers to PTSB and Ulster Bank simply because they offer this card.

From a technical perspective, there's nothing really particularly backwards or low tech about Laser. It's just a case of choice of transaction networks and how they opt to market their current account products.

The two existing Visa Debit issuers:

https://www.permanenttsb.ie/whatweoffer/currentaccounts/bankcardsguide/visa-debit-card/
http://www.ulsterbank.ie/roi/personal/daily-banking/current-accounts/card/visa-debit.ashx

AIB Announcement :

http://www.aibgroup.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=PressOffice/AIB_Press_Releas/aib_po_d_press_releases-0_08&cid=1308217170159&poSection=AR&poSubSection=paDA&position=notfirst&rank=top&month=07&year=2011

Bank of Ireland announcement :

http://www.bankofireland.com/about-boi-group/press-room/press-releases/item/274/bank-of-ireland-announces-a-new-era-in-payments-for-irish-consumers-as-contactless-becomes-a-reality-and-queues-become-history/

muggyog

The €15 limit is going to make the new card VERY useful ( hope Dublin bus will accept them )!

Amazing number of views on this thread.

Solair

muggyog wrote: »

The €15 limit is going to make the new card VERY useful ( hope Dublin bus will accept them )!

Amazing number of views on this thread.

Perhaps there are a LOT of people Googling "iTunes + Laser Card"

The €15 limit only applies to the contactless card. You can still use chip and pin for anything bigger up to €1500 without pre-authorisation.