Aggression Factor

zuutroy

Is it ideal to have your AF the same across PF, Flop, Turn and River? At the moment I'm 0.95, 4.0, 1.3, 1.1. I think this means that I'm waay to prone to C-betting after missing and too passive is someone shows they have any kind of hand after the flop. Am I reading it right?

Van Dice

Think you def need to be more aggro preflop, on turn and river. Flop aggression of 4 isn't anything out of the ordinary, it will be the street with the highest AF for almost everyone. Lots of people are higher than 4.

You can check your c-betting % in PT, think it's in the 'More detail' tab. Imo somewhere around 70-75% is optimal. But the flop aggression of 4 says nothing really about your c-betting tendencies

This assumes 6-max NL btw

ZZR1100

Van Dice wrote:

Think you def need to be more aggro preflop, on turn and river. Flop aggression of 4 isn't anything out of the ordinary, it will be the street with the highest AF for almost everyone. Lots of people are higher than 4.

You can check your c-betting % in PT, think it's in the 'More detail' tab. Imo somewhere around 70-75% is optimal. But the flop aggression of 4 says nothing really about your c-betting tendencies

This assumes 6-max NL btw

Cant seem to find c-bet %. Also my PF AF is showing --- .any idea why this is.
Its the same for all players in my DB btw.

other stats are vpip 22 / Attsb22/ w$wsf 36 /wto Sd 25 / W$atsd 55/ Pf r 11 / Faf 2.62/ Taf 1.70 /Raf.19/ Taf 2.09 over 30k hands

Look good bad ug??

AmarilloFats

Slightly OT: What Rules are people using these days?

I got mine from bet-the-pot-.com

The have a few choices for 6-max...

ZZR1100

Got mine from 2+2

dvdfan

ZZR1100 wrote:

Cant seem to find c-bet %. Also my PF AF is showing --- .any idea why this is.
Its the same for all players in my DB btw.

other stats are vpip 22 / Attsb22/ w$wsf 36 /wto Sd 25 / W$atsd 55/ Pf r 11 / Faf 2.62/ Taf 1.70 /Raf.19/ Taf 2.09 over 30k hands

Look good bad ug??

If you go to the General Info Tab when you open up poker tracker to look at your session. Youll see a More Detail Button at the right hand side of your stats. Click this and at the top of the screen that pops up youll see

Include Pre-Flop numbers in Total Aggression Factor Calculation.

Tick this box to see your preflop agression although i dont think its a good idea because it will delute your Total Post Flop Agression Factor by alot for someone passive preflop and Agressive Post flop and vice versa, the best stat to see how aggressive/passive or putting someone on a range preflop is PFR

I dont think but i could be wrong that Poker Ace Hud/Gametime+ include PF agression in their total aggression figures wheter you check or uncheck this box in poker tracker but it can give the wrong opinion when reviewing poker.

For what its worth my stats are Flop 3.83 Turn 2.00 River 1.88 Total AF 2.84 over the last 14k sample of hands although you should understand what the calculations means before you try and fix the problem bet+raise divided call so your problem may lie in calling too much, raising to little or betting too little or not folding enough when you should, as alot of books and articles will tell you if your playing good poker you should always be looking to bet or fold and should have a good reason for calling. I only say that because most people will tell you your not aggressive enough because your AF is low wheras it can often be that somone is check/calling too much and when they get more aggressive they still dont solve the problem and like i did i began raising just to improve my agression factor which was disasterous.

Also your PFR is only half your V$PIP they should be alot closer say 22/16+, id imagine you probably limp with alot of PP, suited connectors type of hands. If your doing this its a mistake you should IMO raise PP from every position as your PP will be one of your biggest earners so you always want to play big pots with them and you should drop suited connecters in UTG and MP and raise them from CO and Button. Basically you should rarely limp into a pot and should always raise and the only difference between a 22/21 player and a 22/16 player will be how much they raise the blinds or if they just complete the blinds.

Your attempted to steal rate is 22% which is ok but could be higer but if you add PP and suited connectors or whatever hands your limping with this will improve that. One last thing when i looked at my stats and got help on what to change i tried to change too many things at once and got into alot of trouble so its best to try to change 1 thing at a time and see how you adjust.

ZZR1100

dvdfan wrote:

For what its worth my stats are Flop 3.83 Turn 2.00 River 1.88 Total AF 2.84 over the last 14k sample of hands although you should understand what the calculations means before you try and fix the problem bet+raise divided call so your problem may lie in calling too much, raising to little or betting too little or not folding enough when you should, as alot of books and articles will tell you if your playing good poker you should always be looking to bet or fold and should have a good reason for calling. I only say that because most people will tell you your not aggressive enough because your AF is low wheras it can often be that somone is check/calling too much and when they get more aggressive they still dont solve the problem and like i did i began raising just to improve my agression factor which was disasterous.

Also your PFR is only half your V$PIP they should be alot closer say 22/16+, id imagine you probably limp with alot of PP, suited connectors type of hands. If your doing this its a mistake you should IMO raise PP from every position as your PP will be one of your biggest earners so you always want to play big pots with them and you should drop suited connecters in UTG and MP and raise them from CO and Button. Basically you should rarely limp into a pot and should always raise and the only difference between a 22/21 player and a 22/16 player will be how much they raise the blinds or if they just complete the blinds.

Your attempted to steal rate is 22% which is ok but could be higer but if you add PP and suited connectors or whatever hands your limping with this will improve that. One last thing when i looked at my stats and got help on what to change i tried to change too many things at once and got into alot of trouble so its best to try to change 1 thing at a time and see how you adjust.

Thanks for indepth reply.
I think my low PFR is due to the fact of limping into hands that a 50/10/1.1 type player is in with non premium hands (whom i pick up with spadeeye btw).
i do raise all PP but i dont reraise - JJ .Maybe this is bad policy as im not isolating them, but thats the advice i have been given - ie play passivly until the flop.
My ATtSB is too low but what is a resonable % to have without it being too obvious or does that really matter.
As i am on the subject.Assuming u are raising on the button every round if it is folded to u-- if you raise 3Xbb with air and BB repops to 10XBB, should call given the pot odds and your position?

bottom feeder

i think i need to invest in poker tracker or something because i haven't got a clue when people are talking about other players stats...! or is there another way to read stats...?

dvdfan

I dont know a magic number but mine and alot of the players that i watch that make videos on cardrunners is close to the 30% mark. Whats your raising range for UTG, MP, CO, BUTTON

zuutroy

Great reply up there DVD. I think we should go about making a list of what range all of your stats should be in, because I think a lot of people are a bit befuddled by some of them, and I haven't found a good conclusive explanation of all of them in one place.

dvdfan

Heres 2 linkys that might help Zuutroy, i actually taught you and ZZR1100 were the same poster i just seen the Z:D :

How to check if your stats are in order using poker tracker:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=4946669&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1

What stats are useful on your HUD:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=8009768&page=0&vc=1

Van Dice

ZZR1100 wrote:

Cant seem to find c-bet %. Also my PF AF is showing --- .any idea why this is.
Its the same for all players in my DB btw.

other stats are vpip 22 / Attsb22/ w$wsf 36 /wto Sd 25 / W$atsd 55/ Pf r 11 / Faf 2.62/ Taf 1.70 /Raf.19/ Taf 2.09 over 30k hands

Look good bad ug??

Your Attsb should be bigger than vpip, and as mentioned your pfr should be higher.
Basically stop limping in EP, and raise more often in LP.

ZZR1100 wrote:

Assuming u are raising on the button every round if it is folded to u-- if you raise 3Xbb with air and BB repops to 10XBB, should call given the pot odds and your position?

No!

Chucky the tree

For 6 max those stats are really passive, the flop one is okay.

RedJoker

ZZR1100 wrote:

I think my low PFR is due to the fact of limping into hands that a 50/10/1.1 type player is in with non premium hands (whom i pick up with spadeeye btw).

It's often best to pretend they didn't limp in and raise your normal opening range. This is called isolating and can be very profitable although sometimes it's high variance.

ZZR1100 wrote:

i do raise all PP but i dont reraise - JJ .Maybe this is bad policy as im not isolating them, but thats the advice i have been given - ie play passivly until the flop.

You should play aggressively on every street.

There's no need to 3 bet every PP but if a player has a high PFR or ATtSB I'll 3 bet most PPs in position. I'll 3 bet 99+ OOP and flat call with 88, 77, 66 planning to call a cbet and try to get to showdown if I don't hit my set, 55- is probably a fold as you don't have implied odds to set mine and a 3 bet can put you in very awkward spots post flop.

ZZR1100 wrote:

My ATtSB is too low but what is a resonable % to have without it being too obvious or does that really matter.

My ATtSB is in the mid 40s. It gives you a very loose image and it's far easier to get paid off on big hands. The bad players won't differentiate between your tight MP open raises and your loose BTN raises. Some players will adjust by calling too much. The good regs may start 3 betting you lightly but if you can adjust to this it can be profitable although again high variance.

ZZR1100 wrote:

As i am on the subject.Assuming u are raising on the button every round if it is folded to u-- if you raise 3Xbb with air and BB repops to 10XBB, should call given the pot odds and your position?

Against 99% of your opponents who don't 3 bet you light then no, you should fold.

If the BB is an aggressive player and you know he is 3 betting you light in these spots then you can start calling with SCs, KQ/QJ or mid PP type hands. You will also be calling with AA/KK/QQ/JJ/AK and planning to shove over his cbet. So on certain boards you can start shoving as a bluff/semi-bluff when you call with your non premium hands. You should look at flop texture and do this on dry boards. For example on a J62 board you might shove KQ over his cbet or if you flop a draw with your SC you might semi-bluff shove over his cbet. This is all dependent on you doing the same thing with AA/KK/etc so that your opponent can't differentiate between your plays. It's also important you only do this against opponents you know are 3 betting light, in position and not at micro stakes. As you can tell from the description this is going to be high variance so you need the bankroll to make these plays.

OOP I'd be far less likely to make this play. Let's say you open in the CO and a habitual 3 bettor reraises from the BTN. Now you're in a very awkward spot, most hands are an instant fold here. I would 4 bet AK and also QQ and maybe JJ so they can't instantly put you on AK. I would flat call with AA/KK planning to c/r shove the flop and I would also call with 99, 1010 and maybe JJ. All other hands I'd usually fold.

I'd start making changes gradually, get the basics right first and then you can start analyzing 3 bet pot lines, etc.