What will we do with the Cathedrals when organised religion falls

MooseJam

There has been very little good come from religion but some of their buildings are wonderful, in the not to distant future when organised religion is no more it would be a terrible shame to see the cathedrals demolished, what could we do with them ? museums, monuments to mans folly ?

Galvasean

You are assuming religion will disappear from the face of the Earth? Face it. Whether we like it or not its here to stay.

Fallen Seraph

During the enlightenment atheists were confidently predicting the disappearance of religion within 150 years. I'm fully confident that all currently existing cathedrals will have lost the fight against entropy long before they become redundant.

Beruthiel

They would make great places to live, imagine the acoustics for you music collection!

In reality, they will become public building.

Dades

Architects will buy them and convert them in trophy homes maintaining many original features, but also incorporating all mod cons like piped organ music.

robindch

Well, with as much respect due to christian denials as possible, churches are already falling into splendid and most welcome disuse all over Ireland and the UK, and Europe too. Generally, the small ones are being turned into homes or offices, while the larger ones are being turned into community centers or knocked down, if they're unsafe. I seem to remember a story about an argument over whether to turn one church/cathedral in Scotland into a night-club a year or two back (can't remember what happened). That ex-church, now a rather nice office building between Ranelagh and Rathmines is a good example of how to do it.

As a pipe organist, I wouldn't mind having my own cathedral sometime. A unused catholic one would do just fine

The Mad Hatter

Should it happen, they'd make great concert halls.

Esmereldina

The Mad Hatter wrote:

Should it happen, they'd make great concert halls.

This is a nice idea

Like most people on this thread, I'd be sceptical about religion 'falling' any time soon. If it did happen though... religion fulfills an important social function for many people, and apart from the religious belief aspect of well, um ...religion, going to church also provides many people with an occasion and a place to meet as a community, so I think it would be good if this aspect was retained in a secular society. Perhaps they could just be turned into community centres, metting places or cultural centres for the local people.

quirk.

I think they would make great museums to rmind people of the religion of their ancestors.

Tim Robbins

I say:
1. Bring back Michael McDowell.
2. Get that Cafe Bars Bill in.
3. Convert all of them to Cafe Bars and have a full size picture of Michael McDowell in place of the altar.

Dades

Surprised you're still plugging the PDs after the election, Tim.

Tim Robbins

The Atheist wrote:

Surprised you're still plugging the PDs after the election, Tim.

You can't accept logic into your life and not have McDowell in it.

Scofflaw

Spaces set aside for contemplation? I tend to use them for that anyway, although I also find services quite soothing.

cordially,
Scofflaw

lostexpectation

well in ireland we already have churches, made into restaurants, and converted into mosques so there's some answers, concerts hall is the most obviously, I was listening to david norris at the weekend and then had on john 'us military use shannon of is wrong and its okay not to be married' oneill on and he was saying how the st patrick? used to catholic and that some people wanted it back? I awys get confused about protestantism that its actually still christian, he says they now have chaplins from 3 christian religions in there.

some people might say that ornate massive amazing cathdrals represent a a tribute to god's glory and beauty but there just seem like willy wavingnow I know you need a big buidling to hold alot fo people, but in england and germany they are building massive st pauls sized mosques (and of course people are complaining), now you could say well why not, but have they never heard of modesty? frugalness, spending money where its needed.

Dades

lostexpectation wrote:

well in ireland we already have churches, made into restaurants, and converted into mosques so there's some answers

There's an interesting thought - maybe in 200 years all our old churches will be mosques. :eek:

Tim Robbins

Scofflaw wrote:

I also find services quite soothing.

Elaborate?

The Mad Hatter

Esmereldina wrote:

This is a nice idea

Yeah, near where I work there's a converted church. Our staff give a concert in it at the end of every year - the acoustics are great*!

Tim Robbins wrote:

You can't accept logic into your life and not have McDowell in it.

Apparently the PDs can, though.





*Well, not quite so much at the back of the hall, but still...

Zillah

The Atheist wrote:

There's an interesting thought - maybe in 200 years all our old churches will be mosques. :eek:

Not a comforting possibility.


I must say I truly adore the idea of a cathedral being converted into a nightclub. Delicious.

monkeyfudge

I once went to see Suzanne Vega play a concert in Christ Church Cathedral... that was pretty cool....

Scofflaw

Tim Robbins wrote:

Scofflaw wrote:

I also find services quite soothing.

Elaborate?

Well, not your everyday Mass as such, but anything that involves lots of murmuring and a decent quantity of incense. Chanting is particularly good, particularly in Latin. I may find the beliefs ridiculous, but I find the rituals pleasing.

Essentially, I suppose, I like the sacred, and I like the feeling of people setting aside time for it, in a building designed for it. I have a strong objection to using churches for straightforward commercial purposes - using them as nightclubs I find particularly unattractive.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Zillah

Scofflaw wrote:

I have a strong objection to using churches for straightforward commercial purposes - using them as nightclubs I find particularly unattractive.

You mean former churches. And why?

The Mad Hatter

Zillah wrote:

You mean former churches. And why?

Because it's tacky?

Scofflaw

The Mad Hatter wrote:

Because it's tacky?

Yup. After a momentary "ha ha they turned a church into a night-club" it's still a night-club. Night-clubs are inherently tacky, and require only large industrial boxes.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Tim Robbins

Scofflaw wrote:

Well, not your everyday Mass as such, but anything that involves lots of murmuring and a decent quantity of incense. Chanting is particularly good, particularly in Latin. I may find the beliefs ridiculous, but I find the rituals pleasing.

Essentially, I suppose, I like the sacred, and I like the feeling of people setting aside time for it, in a building designed for it. I have a strong objection to using churches for straightforward commercial purposes - using them as nightclubs I find particularly unattractive.

cordially,
Scofflaw

I would also be against using them for commerical purposes. I like the idea of something in society being available to people and the community and not requiring money.

monkeyfudge

Scofflaw wrote:

Well, not your everyday Mass as such, but anything that involves lots of murmuring and a decent quantity of incense. Chanting is particularly good, particularly in Latin. I may find the beliefs ridiculous, but I find the rituals pleasing.

The rituals are equally distasteful. The purpose of the repeated chanting and incense is to make people more susceptible to suggestion. It's a standard brain washing technique.

Zillah

Scofflaw wrote:

Yup. After a momentary "ha ha they turned a church into a night-club" it's still a night-club. Night-clubs are inherently tacky, and require only large industrial boxes.

Clearly you've never been to a good nightclub...


So your complaint is not so much that you don't like the idea of a church being turned into a nightclub, its that you don't like the idea of nightclubs, or anything being turned into a nightclub?

MonkeyFudge wrote:

The rituals are equally distasteful. The purpose of the repeated chanting and incense is to make people more susceptible to suggestion. It's a standard brain washing technique.

I have to agree. I find all manner of religious rituals deeply disquieting to experience. Its like, I've heard of it on TV, and I've argued about it online, but here we have real live people genuinely acting out this insanity... *shudder*

The Mad Hatter

Zillah wrote:

Clearly you've never been to a good nightclub...

I don't believe there's any such thing.

So your complaint is not so much that you don't like the idea of a church being turned into a nightclub, its that you don't like the idea of nightclubs, or anything being turned into a nightclub?

A beautiful building with years/centuries of history -> a box of noise and sweaty, drunk twenty-somethings? That's worse than those jackasses who put a backing beat to Orff.

I have to agree. I find all manner of religious rituals deeply disquieting to experience. Its like, I've heard of it on TV, and I've argued about it online, but here we have real live people genuinely acting out this insanity... *shudder*

Er...gonna disagree here, some of them can be extremely fulfilling.

Zillah

The Mad Hatter wrote:

I don't believe there's any such thing.

Its a subjective value judgement so you are by definition wrong if you mean that in any objective sense.

A beautiful building with years/centuries of history -> a box of noise and sweaty, drunk twenty-somethings?

Sounds fantastic to me. Sweaty, drunk twenty-somethings...

Er...gonna disagree here, some of them can be extremely fulfilling.

You disagree that I find it deeply disquieting? Ambitious position to take, I'll give you that much...

Tim Robbins

monkeyfudge wrote:

The rituals are equally distasteful. The purpose of the repeated chanting and incense is to make people more susceptible to suggestion. It's a standard brain washing technique.

Well on that logic you'll have to get rid of the majority of sporting events also.

Dades

I kind of agree with Scofflaw.

I'd rather see a big old church used for something a little more appreciative. A library, for example so you could appreciate the surroundings in peace. A good example of usage might be that tourist office on Suffolk St.

Don't get me wrong - I've nothing against clubs - but the quality of a club is determined by the class of the sweaty revellers and the speed of the bar staff IMO.

monkeyfudge

Tim Robbins wrote:

Well on that logic you'll have to get rid of the majority of sporting events also.

Sounds good to me.

Oh and isn't there an old church up on Thomas Street that is now a lamp shop?

The Mad Hatter

You disagree that I find it deeply disquieting? Ambitious position to take, I'll give you that much...

Well done, I made an error in semantics and you that because of that, you've won the argument. Have a cookie. And please don't say that you 'find all manner of religious rituals deeply disquieting to experience' until you've experienced all of them. That's rather like someone saying that they don't think that there's any such thing as a good night club.

DerKaiser

I personally think they would make the best venues for Black/Death metal gigs

Scofflaw

The Mad Hatter wrote:

Well done, I made an error in semantics and you that because of that, you've won the argument. Have a cookie. And please don't say that you 'find all manner of religious rituals deeply disquieting to experience' until you've experienced all of them. That's rather like someone saying that they don't think that there's any such thing as a good night club.

I don't think there's such a thing as a good night club - for a given value of night club.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Ekancone

As a business i think organised religion will have huge problems in the future with lack of bums on seats, etc. As a philosophy it aint going nowhere.

eoin5

I think they might make good opium dens

Zillah

The Mad Hatter wrote:

And please don't say that you 'find all manner of religious rituals deeply disquieting to experience' until you've experienced all of them.

All that I have experienced, whether in person or by television, I have found disquieting. This would imply that it is the very notion of religious rituals that upsets me, rather than the exact ingredients.

Red Hand

eoin5 wrote:

I think they might make good opium dens

Opus dei is an anagram for opium dens?:eek: I'm having a da Vinci code moment!:p


On topic, I also disagree with turning them into nightclubs...

Attractive Nun

Well you wouldn't have to turn them all into nightclubs, but the odd church/nightclub would interest me - I reckon the acoustics would be pretty good. Aside from that, keep some for libraries, community centres, public administration offices, museums and other such government doodads. Then sell some off to the private sector to do as they please with them - you'd get a few stylish restaurants and concert venues at least - maybe even the odd paintball terrain.

indough

Well after the rapture occurs you'll be free to do whatever you want with the churches, there won't be any Christians left to stop you

monkeyfudge wrote:

The rituals are equally distasteful. The purpose of the repeated chanting and incense is to make people more susceptible to suggestion. It's a standard brain washing technique.

I take it you're referring to Catholicism? Been to a couple of protestant churches and they didn't really seem to do anything like this...

PDN

robindch wrote:

Well, with as much respect due to christian denials as possible, churches are already falling into splendid and most welcome disuse all over Ireland and the UK, and Europe too. Generally, the small ones are being turned into homes or offices, while the larger ones are being turned into community centers or knocked down, if they're unsafe. I seem to remember a story about an argument over whether to turn one church/cathedral in Scotland into a night-club a year or two back (can't remember what happened). That ex-church, now a rather nice office building between Ranelagh and Rathmines is a good example of how to do it.

As a pipe organist, I wouldn't mind having my own cathedral sometime. A unused catholic one would do just fine

The changing religious scene in Ireland is fascinating as it effects buildings. Church buildings are being converted into secular use while new congregations desperately seek space to accomodate their expanding numbers. So, in Dublin, we have immigrant churches meeting in warehouses and factories (and often falling foul of planning laws) while purpose built churches lie empty.

In Drogheda a Franciscan church (seating 600) closed a few years ago and the building became an art gallery. Meanwhile a Pentecostal Church in the same town has spent hundreds of thousands converting warehouse space into a church, and has received planning permission to build a 1200 seat church.

Of course the sensible solution would seem to be for newer churches to purchase disused church buildings, but traditional denominations seem to be reluctant to sell property to the 'competition'. Therefore we may expect to see a continuing cycle of conversion with churches being turned into offices and secular buildings being used as churches.