Tournament strategy? (re: jackpot 20 game/crapshoots)

ditpoker

ok.. so the 20 game is played by a fair few people on this forum. What strategies do people use in this game. Everything from tight tight tight and wait to get paid off by your first big hand and hope it arrives before the break? to gamboooool and hope to double up or go home.

its 2500 starting stack with 20min blinds. approx 50 players so 125,000 chips in play, you'll need to in or around 10-15k at the final table to be playable.

there is SOME play later on but earlydoors its mad.

I've often played like an uber rock until the 150-300 level then get push happy until im average stacked or out the door.

being aggressive very early has little benefit as a 6bb raise preflop can very often get 5 callers. suggestions on a postcard?!?!?!

DEmeant0r

It's definately not play like a rock, you start off with 25bbs, so gamboooool some until you're out or have a biggish stack.

bohsman

Play tight but pick your spots for a double up. Nothing fancy and you should get the majority of your starting stack in with the best of it.

ollyk1

Is this a freezeout???

So bascially its a total crapshoot and you are looking for strategy advice??:eek:

Not to be flippant but my advice would be to save your money and play in a bigger game less often. I

F I ended up playing a crapshoot such as this my approach would be to sit tight and then if I hit a half decent hand with a limper or two I'd just stick it all-in.

jbravado

Drink loads to dull out the grim reality that is jacks 20 f/o.

No,gamble like a monkey at the start imo.

LuckyLloyd

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LuckyLloyd

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ditpoker

i disagree... its a cheap night, its good fun, and it only costs 20 euro and because it IS so popular you can pick up 500+ if you run well. very often more entertaining than playing a 100fo in the emporium where everyone has the head phones on and talks about their terrible luck against some young punk (who clearly has their number) getting lucky against them in a cash game. the jackpot 20 game is a pressure free game.

there is a strategy of some sort to it. say there's been a year of jackpot 20 games, so 52 games give or take. there has been at least 20 of those won by boardsters i would imagine. so... either there is some sort of strategy to it or we just run better

ocallagh

Summary: Play TAG and make big bets.

If you pick up a premium hand increase your raising amount in the first few levels. at 25/50 and 50/100, a 3BB raise will get called by anything and 6 players. Make it between 5 and 6BBs. After a load of limpers make it 10 or 15BBs.

Don't bleed chips by trying to see cheap flops (unless of course you are 90% sure you will see a flop). Keep your chips for your double up.

Don't make the mistake of betting 2/3rd your stack in an attempt to look strong. All in is much more powerful in these games.

A huge mistake beginners make is to limp/fold. Take advantage of this. eg: blinds 100/200 it is quite regular you will see 4 limpers ahead of you. Unless one of them is obviously slow playing AA you should shove with a wide range in the C/O button if your stack is between 2k and 5k. If it's less than 2k narrow your range a bit. You'd be surprised how wide their 'limp/call 2k' range is at 100/200.

The donk bet is strife in these games. eg you raise preflop and one of the blinds calls. The flop comes down and they bet half the pot. Do not be worried about this. If you have anything decent, shove.

Player styles in these games vary much more than regular decent stacked freeze outs. Some are ridiculously tight and others are terrible LAAAAGs. Make sure to identify this.

mewso

http://www.pokertournamentformula.com/

Theresalwaysone

I enjoy this game immensly, and if I was arsed to get into the car I would happily chug along up tonight and play it.

In fact I might.

As regards strategy, build a stack or go home. Whether you do that through gambling or through STAG ( superTag....we like???) is personal preferance.

sumoward

This sounds like fun, as I have never tried it before it might be worth a go.

Theresalwaysone

Fun....Yes

Worth a go....No.

Slash/ED

Play like an absolute rock early on, you WILL get paid off when you have the goods no matter what either way. So either win big or go home on early on your big hands early on. Later on, in and around the final table/bubble, switch to a completely hyper aggressive style. You have to run good especially early on building a stack, but that doesn't mean go gamboool happy, it is a freezeout after all, just hope you get a big hand before the break and get a double up or two, it really is that easy. If you build a stack early on, look to get involved as much as possible and pick off the shortys who need a double up so are pushing with ATC.

I disagree about not seeing cheap flops early on. On some JP20 tables, you'll get away with limping with crap an awful lot, so why not?

sumoward

Theresalwaysone wrote:

Fun....Yes

Worth a go....No.

Went to this.

2500 chips at start

7000 chips at break

30,000 at final table

Then sort of dished away chips after that to go out in 6th place.

I one 40 so minus buyin, fee and taxi to Ranelagh I made a tenner in a little under 5 hours.

This poker lark is easy tomorrow I resign my job to become a full time professional:rolleyes:

Funnily enough I though my play was pretty poor in general but I still progressed through the field.

ITT-Pat

ditpoker wrote:

i disagree... its a cheap night, its good fun, and it only costs 20 euro and because it IS so popular you can pick up 500+ if you run well. very often more entertaining than playing a 100fo in the emporium where everyone has the head phones on and talks about their terrible luck against some young punk (who clearly has their number) getting lucky against them in a cash game. the jackpot 20 game is a pressure free game.

there is a strategy of some sort to it. say there's been a year of jackpot 20 games, so 52 games give or take. there has been at least 20 of those won by boardsters i would imagine. so... either there is some sort of strategy to it or we just run better

Very very well said.

Really starting to get sick of people badmouthing this tournament(yes, i do realise its a crapshoot with terrible, often agitating, players) As jeff stated, its good cheap fun, that is positive ROI for any decent player who plays it regularly and theres no need for some of the more serious players(often SE regulars) to be complaining about how bad it is.

End of rant

bohsman

Good fun tournament.

Marq

lol donkaments.

Big stack by the break or forget about it. Even at the final table it's all-in or fold for alot of people till about 4 handed. Last week Kenneth, Pat and me were the three big stacks and did our absolute best to play some poker but were surrounded by shove merchants. I swear the guy in seat one never said a word other than all-in.

There is another thread on here- not to get too off topic- about a Boards Cash Team, would it not make better sense to set up a tournament team? I rarely go too long without seeing a boardster at a final table. Surely 10 boardsters for a joint starting stake could make some good cash?

cooker3

I don't really have a strategy per se going into this, just play it as it comes but in general I suppose being tight and value betting the donks there is the way to go.

I am also surprised that the Jackpot 20 game equivilant of Phil Hellmuth for record number of bracelets is asking for strategy advice!

I also must say I think this is a great fun game, I usually always have a laugh at it and it's cheap (usually free for me) night entertainment or somewhere to start the night off at.
I also think it's a good way of introducing someone to live poker, you don't feel intimidated, the dealers are good usually and fairly relaxed and the standard is terrible, can't argue with that!

Mr.Plough

im happy to get it in pf with 77+ and double up or go home



i went home

ollyk1

ITT-Pat wrote:

Very very well said.

Really starting to get sick of people badmouthing this tournament(yes, i do realise its a crapshoot with terrible, often agitating, players) As jeff stated, its good cheap fun, that is positive ROI for any decent player who plays it regularly and theres no need for some of the more serious players(often SE regulars) to be complaining about how bad it is.

End of rant

Hey Pat,

I'm not sure if this is aimed at me or not but just a quick response in case it is.

I'm not against having some fun in a cheap tournie (I've played plenty of freerolls and small buy in games and still do on occasion!). It sounds like a great starter tournie to attract people in and I'm always happy to see an offering like that being made available to newbies. I've no high horse when it comes to playing poker and I definitely have no axe to grind against the jackpot (except for how cold I ran in the cash game on Sunday morning :rolleyes: ).

The OP posted looking for strategy advice for this game (which seems to be unneeded from what I've heard in any event) and I responded with some generic stuff along with making a general comment in relation to crapshoots and the rhetorical question about how much can advanced strategy actually be worth in these situations?

Perhaps I need to spell out the point I was making in a somewaht flippant way .

If you are looking for entertainment I'm sure the jackpot do it in style but that's not what the OP posted looking for. He asked for strategy advice. My points in relation to that.

1. In a crapshoot a good players edge can never be as big as it would be in a better structured game with the same standard of players. Fact.

2. Any slight increase in a good players edge due to working on his/her game (as in refining your tournie strategy following this thread) will not be sufficiently rewarded. It's akin to spending a day researching a company and then finally buying €100 worth of stock on the back of the research. What's the point if you aren't going to reap decent rewards??

In relation to the above I'm not having a go at the Jackpot or people who play crapshoots its more a question of BR management and maximising your edge.

Think about the irony of this, Jeff spends ages working on his game, reading books, posting hands and improving his play. He has a fair bit of playing experience and then he invests his time and a very small bit of money in a game where his long term expectation has to be 1 to 2 buyins per night at the absolute maximum. The standard of play in the SE/Fitz/Jackpot isn't any higher most nights of the week but his money expectation would defintely be higher.

If you are playing for entertainment this doesn't matter, if you are playing to win money surely it does?

I guess in conclusion my point is everyone starts somewhere and having fun playing cards is a great way to spend an evening, but Jeff is asking the question about how to make more money and my advice is invest a little more and reap a bigger reward due to having more chances to display your edge and by playing for bigger stakes.

I've removed a little bit about my impressions of Jeff's current poker playing situation as they are pure speculation on my behalf and have no grounding in facts. If Jeff was doing a deconstruction thread I'd probably post it.

cooker3

ollyk1 wrote:

If Jeff was doing a deconstruction thread I'd probably post it.

Oh I second this

ditpoker

ollyk1 wrote:

If Jeff was doing a deconstruction thread I'd probably post it.

thirded! think my deconstruction wont be some for some time though, but i am down to do one! PM maybe!?

Mr.Plough wrote:

i went home

no you didnt, you sat into a cash game!

EDIT: ... and olly's post above is very good. food for thought!

ITT-Pat

Olly my post wasn't aimed at you. Apologies for any confusion caused. My post was just a general comment made about the forum in general and was off-topic as it didnt relate to the OP.

I dont have any bugs with your original post as it answered jeff's question as you saw fit, without the usual smugness that other users tend to use when referring to such tournaments.

Also, your second post is a very good read!