Alfa 156 or am I nuts

TigerTim

I stopped keeping up to date with my daily driver a few years ago after a 2001 Peugeot 607 broke my pocket with its French electronics. Sold it & took a 1991 Toyota Corolla as a trade in. It now has 190K miles and still going strong with 1 year left on the NCT. Not the most exciting car to drive & definitely not great to look at. The Missus is also mentioning its time to get rid of it. She has her own car so is only concerned about how it looks in the front drive. Anyway, only want to spend about €5K. I have seen a lot of Alfa 156 around 1999/2000/2001 advertised for this money or less. I have always admired their looks & have heard the driving experience is second to none. Will it be as troublesome as the Peugeot. I really got sick of seeing warning lights!!. Anyone own a 156. What are your experiences?. Any other cars to be recommended in this price range. Needs to be able to carry 3 kids to school & not Primera/Avensis.

Thanks,

T.

siralfalot

oh no....... here we go again.....

**circles wagons and loads shotgun**

a well looked after 156 is a great car to own and drive, a friend of mine is currently selling his 00 1.6, he has looked after it like a baby

Anan1

The 156 is a wonderful car, but it needs to be cared for. If you are prepared to look after it and have a degree of mechanical empathy, then ownership will be a rewarding experience. If, like most people, you're just looking for wheels, then stick with a Japanese car.

siralfalot

Anan1 wrote:

The 156 is a wonderful car, but it needs to be cared for. If you are prepared to look after it and have a degree of mechanical empathy, then ownership will be a rewarding experience. If, like most people, you're just looking for wheels, then stick with a Japanese car.

no more to be said really!! :cool:

shakenbake

I've had a 00 alfa 156 for 2yrs now. Bought with 75k miles on the clock.

I've had no engine troubles with it at all. Although I've encountered some of the common problems that are known with them.

-a leaking passanger door (minor)
-squeeky, poor front suspension, due to wishbones, that I keep meaning to get fixed

Largely my experience has been great with it though. The car, more so than another car I've driven, has a personality though. I wouldn't buy one again based solely on their resale value but my alfa experience has been a pretty good one. As others will say just service it regularly, as you should any car and you'll probably be fine.

cjt156

Same here, I've had 2. They're a joy if you look after 'em; thing is at 7-9 years of age how do you know the previous owner has?
Infrequent oil and timing-belt changes are the things that'll do real damage to an older Alfa (or a new one for that matter). Evidence of regular servicing is a real plus.

Countryripple

Go on.....................you know you want to!!!!

Sizzler

You should have just put a poll up and let the audience decide....would have saved a lot of typing and you would have got a damn quick answer

Anan1

Sizzler wrote:

You should have just put a poll up and let the audience decide....would have saved a lot of typing and you would have got a damn quick answer

The problem with polls is that they give semi-literate 'heard it down the pub' Alfa bashers the same weight as the opinions of people who have actually owned the cars.:)

alias no.9

I've had one for nearly two years now and is the first car I've had that could still bring a smile to my face after that long. It's pushing on for 100k miles and doesn't miss a beat. It needed one of the rear suspension links to be changed for the NCT because of a worn bushing, a common problem, but only marginally more difficult than changing a tyre and not expensive. The only other non service item it needed was a thermostat, another common problem, but again not difficult to do or expensive.
If you are buying from a dealer, make sure they replace the timing belt (expensive and needs doing every 36k miles) and replace the spark plugs (expensive for spark plugs but last 60k miles) and that should keep your servicing costs to a minimum (fluids, filters, brakes and tyres) for the first 36k miles you have it.

TigerTim

Thanks for all the replies. Yeah - I fancy a red one!!

Anan1

TigerTim wrote:

Thanks for all the replies. Yeah - I fancy a red one!!

There are a couple of things you need to know before buying, the main one being that they need cambelts every 36,000 miles. I don't know whereabouts you are in the country, but there's a very good specialist in the north inner city (Dublin), Gerry Campbell of TI Autos, Ph:01 838 6567. I'd have him take a look at any car you're seriously considering buying.

528i

TigerTim wrote:

Anyway, only want to spend about €5K. I have seen a lot of Alfa 156 around 1999/2000/2001 advertised for this money or less. I have always admired their looks & have heard the driving experience is second to none. Will it be as troublesome as the Peugeot. I really got sick of seeing warning lights!!.

Every time I see a 156 driver I can't help thinking ' what a dope ' and smiling sympathetically. With the price of spare parts and tow trucks etc. you'd have a new Volkswagen Golf paid for.

If you're quite the adventurous risk-taker who doesn't have an important schedule or need to be anywhere on time then by all means,.. some would say there's an element of 'fun' in the Alfa ownership proposition, ie. not knowing whether it'll start in the morning or develop some 'character' flaws mid morning rush hour traffic or indeed go for a widdle on you new patio overnight.

If you're a dab hand with the old monkey wrench and pulling out dashboards to go pricking and probing at wires every few evenings, and have the compulsory spare cars stacked down the garden, then you're in a much better position than the other alfisti subjected to a brainless dealership network.

Anan1

528i wrote:

Every time I see a 156 driver I can't help thinking ' what a dope ' and smiling sympathetically. With the price of spare parts and tow trucks etc. you'd have a new Volkswagen Golf paid for.

If you're quite the adventurous risk-taker who doesn't have an important schedule or need to be anywhere on time then by all means,.. some would say there's an element of 'fun' in the Alfa ownership proposition, ie. not knowing whether it'll start in the morning or develop some 'character' flaws mid morning rush hour traffic or indeed go for a widdle on you new patio overnight.

If you're a dab hand with the old monkey wrench and pulling out dashboards to go pricking and probing at wires every few evenings, and have the compulsory spare cars stacked down the garden, then you're in a much better position than the other alfisti subjected to a brainless dealership network.

Source?

Lex Luthor

TigerTim wrote:

Yeah - I fancy a red one!!

Like this one?

Lex Luthor

528i wrote:

Every time I see a 156 driver I can't help thinking ' what a dope ' and smiling sympathetically. With the price of spare parts and tow trucks etc. you'd have a new Volkswagen Golf paid for. .

care to elaborate?

My 523i gave me more trouble than the 156 ever did

528i

Anan1 wrote:

Source?

Auto Express, JD Power, What Car?, the list is endless ;

• Used Alfas cost more to repair than any other make, according to Warranty Direct.
  
• Alfas came joint worst for breakdowns in the German ADAC survey in 2001.
  
• Alfa was fourth-worst manufacturer and the 156 second-worst model in the 2002 Which Car? reliability survey.
  
• The 156 came ninth from last in the 2002 Auto Express satisfaction survey. It didn't fair any better in the 2002 JD Power survey either.
  
• Channel 4car's user tests on the 156 are riddled with faults, and Alfa dealers get a very mixed assessment.

Beware what you're letting yourself in for is the advice from the experts ;

http://www.channel4.com/4car/road-tests/A/alfaromeo/15603-/15603--relqual.html?noforward=true

Anan1

528i - Has it ever occurred to you that the problem may be the dealers as opposed to the cars?

528i

It has, but they have limited options but to install the same defective parts again, and on, and on like ariston

Anan1

528i wrote:

It has, but they have limited options but to install the same defective parts again, and on, and on like ariston

WIth the greatest of respect, your ideas about Alfas might be better received down your local pub.;)

kyote00

I run two cars:

first is a 156 2.5 v6 which I have had since new. Now has 99k on it, run perfectly, started first time every time. Issues I have:
- front wishbones
- changed timing belt at 60k
- clutch at 80k
- air bag ecu at 90k

On twin spark models, check for faulty variator. A regular (proven) service history is a must when buying second hand

second was BMW 520 which was 2 years old we I got it. Has over 120k on it now. Issues I have had:
- electric windows failed at 80k
- head gasket went at 110k (thankfully not major damage caused)
- multiple o2 sensors
- front brake disk rotors need changing last service to cure steering judder at speed.

Service costs are about the same. Parts for the 520 more expensive than the alfa...

To be honest, the BMW is bland as f*** --- but each to his own. I still have the alfa, the BMW is gone....

528i

Anan1 wrote:

WIth the greatest of respect, your ideas about Alfas might be better received down your local pub.;)

And what about all the other experts listed above, they wrong too ?

Are you trying to offload a 156 or something..

kyote00

no hidden agenda, just my experience. take it or leave it.

The BMW is gone in favour of a proper german car

528i

Ehh, the Alfa is Italian ? and to be fair the V6's territory is 323Ci/328Ci/330Ci, not a big 5-series with a small engine, thats like comparing a bentley to an mini cooper, ie. ridiculous, but now that you've gone that far, how would it compare to an E-Class Mercedes anyway

kyote00

the "proper" german car refers to a merc which is in the pipeline...the alfa will stay as it will be a future classic !

The E class and 520 are about equal in the bland dept...but the impending mid life beer gut, large forehead and ankle biters mean a big estate are required....

Unfortunately Alfa dont make a big estate ....:)

I think we (I) have hijacked the thread too much on the OP so not more posts from me...

Hope you enjoy your alfa if you get it

Biro

528i wrote:

Every time I see a 156 driver I can't help thinking ' what a dope ' and smiling sympathetically. With the price of spare parts and tow trucks etc. you'd have a new Volkswagen Golf paid for.

If you're quite the adventurous risk-taker who doesn't have an important schedule or need to be anywhere on time then by all means,.. some would say there's an element of 'fun' in the Alfa ownership proposition, ie. not knowing whether it'll start in the morning or develop some 'character' flaws mid morning rush hour traffic or indeed go for a widdle on you new patio overnight.

If you're a dab hand with the old monkey wrench and pulling out dashboards to go pricking and probing at wires every few evenings, and have the compulsory spare cars stacked down the garden, then you're in a much better position than the other alfisti subjected to a brainless dealership network.

Oh sweet Moses... he bashes the Alfa only to recommend what? A bloody golf. The greatest over-priced and over rated car of all time. And it's unreliable to boot.
There are three disadvantages to Golf ownership and only one advantage. Disadvantages are that you'll be out more money than any of the (better) rivals, you'll have a dull car with no extras, and you'll have electrical trouble a plenty. The advantage is that there's always a "dope" to pay top money to take it off your hands when you're done.
With the Alfa, you'll have a lovely looking car, lovely car to drive and be in, lovely handling car, a petrol engine that puts VW's efforts to shame and you'll save money buying one.
Disadvantages are you'll need to find a looked after one and you'll need to look after it yourself.

Sizzler

Anan1 wrote:

The problem with polls is that they give semi-literate 'heard it down the pub' Alfa bashers the same weight as the opinions of people who have actually owned the cars.:)

He asked for opinions...never said they had to be informed

You dont happen to own an Alfa by any chance

528i

Biro wrote:

Oh sweet Moses... he bashes the Alfa only to recommend what? A bloody golf. The greatest over-priced and over rated car of all time. And it's unreliable to boot. blalbla. The advantage is that there's always a "dope" to pay top money to take it off your hands when you're done.
With the Alfa, blalbla and you'll save money.
Disadvantages are you'll need to find a looked after one and you'll need to look after it yourself.

You'll have a job looking after it yourself with simple servicing like changing spark-plugs and the oil filter on a 2.5 v6 being a 4hr ordeal requiring half the engine be removed, not for the casual DIY’er should he damage the heads @ €3000 replacement cost so you're more or less stuck with a main dealer (and all the shortcomings that go with that) as independents won't touch them with a barge pole either.

The reality is these alfas are probably worth more in a dismantler's yard as donor material for their problematic roadgoing siblings than they are on a used car forecourt, hence the 'you'd have to pay me to take it' attitude from German & superior car dealerships.

The unsuspecting punter can get caught up in the whole romantism of chrome manifolds and a raspy leaking exhaust, and most deserve everything they get, but I'd draw the line at outlandish remarks such as 'future classic' & 'runs perfectly' while trying to educate a poster as to potential foolishness of this buying decision.

Get a golf or corolla, they’re boring but they work, and people in BMW’s won’t laugh at you.

Fey!

I've never owned an Alfa, but I've driven several 156s and loved them.

If you get one, get one with a history and check it, as several others have said. On this line alone, I'd go for an Irish one to make the checking easier. If possible, check the rep of the garage that did the work on the car; several Alfa dealers have closed down who would have been selling the 156.

528i; for someone soooo good at their research, you say that the V6 is the territory of the BMW 323Ci/328Ci/330Ci. But aren't they all straight 6's rather than V6's? As for engine replacement for €3,000 in an Alfa, if you blow a BMW engine you may not necessarily be able to find a replacement at all, and unlikely that you'd get a decent engine for that kind of money. Also, I don't know many BMW drivers who laugh at Alfa drivers.

As for repairs, I have a '98 520i which has 69k when I bought it, and 2 1/2 years later has 93k. I have had to replace the MAF, which cost about €500, and the aircon was hit and miss for a while, which cost me €150 to sort (still need to replace some parts in it, but they're expensive). I also had to replace the accelerator pedal for €20 (won't sit right), and keep having to reset the airbag light, which is a common e39 fault at €80 per reset (caused by adjustment of drivers seat; I ended up buying an airbag diagnostic/reset kit on ebay to save a few quid). I've also had to replace the brakelines and a few bushings, and now must change a handbrake cable. I get servicing done by an independent, so I luckily don't have to pay dealer service prices.

So, will the Alfa give the same level of trouble? And servicing costs?

Back on topic, test drive a few yourself, and if you really like them, shop around and buy one, but try not to completely blow your budget. Also, buy from a garage and GET A WARRANTY!!

Good luck with it. And remember the old line; "You're not a real petrolhead until you've owned an Alfa"!!!

Biro

Fey! wrote:

Also, I don't know many BMW drivers who laugh at Alfa drivers.

I guess we do now! Big man in his 528i, renowned for over heating problems.
And he still advising a golf, the most unreliable car in it's class.
If you want reliability, bypass Germany and Italy, go straight to Japan. If you want flair, go to Italy, if you want dull and quiet inside, go to Germany.
Funny how the mighty BMW are copying a Fiat design in the diesels...

junkyard

kyote00 wrote:

the "proper" german car refers to a merc which is in the pipeline...the alfa will stay as it will be a future classic !

The E class and 520 are about equal in the bland dept...but the impending mid life beer gut, large forehead and ankle biters mean a big estate are required....

Unfortunately Alfa dont make a big estate ....:)

I think we (I) have hijacked the thread too much on the OP so not more posts from me...

Hope you enjoy your alfa if you get it

I'm sorry to say your idea of a "proper" German car being a Mercedes is way overrated in my experience. The last proper Mercedes-Benz was the 126 series S class and the last one of them was made around 1994......they haven't made a decent car since.....AMG have though. As for Alfa's I could write a book on them and it's not the dealers fault, they're just poor quality that's all, just like any Fiat. Alfa just cash in on the idea of a racing heritage and people fall for it hook, line and sinker everytime, it's just down to a trendy image and good marketing. Buy one if you want one, it's your money, but I'm sure you could spend it wiser and buy a better product.

colm_mcm

Biro wrote:

I guess we do now! Big man in his 528i, renowned for over heating problems.
And he still advising a golf, the most unreliable car in it's class.
If you want reliability, bypass Germany and Italy, go straight to Japan. If you want flair, go to Italy, if you want dull and quiet inside, go to Germany.
Funny how the mighty BMW are copying a Fiat design in the diesels...

There are so many holes to pick in this!

might get around to it tomorrow

528i

Fey! wrote:

528i; for someone soooo good at their research, you say that the V6 is the territory of the BMW 323Ci/328Ci/330Ci. But aren't they all straight 6's rather than V6's?

As for repairs, I have a '98 520i which has 69k when I bought it, and 2 1/2 years later has 93k. I have had to replace the MAF, which cost about €500, and the aircon was hit and miss for a while, which cost me €150 to sort (still need to replace some parts in it, but they're expensive). I also had to replace the accelerator pedal for €20 (won't sit right), and keep having to reset the airbag light,

You were rode, Maf's can be had for an M5 @ €100 a pop! the rest of that (aircon & bushings ffs) are standard wear & tear for 100k mileage on any car.

And I'll have you know my research is impeccable, kyote00 had been comparing a 520i with his V6 alfa, when I correctly stated that "the V6's territory is 323Ci/328Ci/330Ci, not a big 5-series with a small engine" ie. to compare like with like, a 2.5 v6 alfa with a similar car and not a large executive barge struggling around with half an engine, big cars need big engines, end of story. No doubt it was bottom of the barrel poverty spec quote "bland as f*ck" also, which would drive anyone mad :rolleyes:

Lets not compare alfas with BMW's anymore, maybe fiats and lancias instead, both cheap & nasty secondhand, but full of 'flair' & 'character'. Like I say, get a golf and you'll have trouble-free motoring, TDi if you can stretch to it- rock solid residuals.

junkyard

528i wrote:

, Like I say, get a golf and you'll have trouble-free motoring, TDi if you can stretch to it- rock solid residuals.

I couldn't agree with you there 528i, Golfs aren't all they're cracked up to be either, the list of problems with them goes on and on.

528i

The 92-'97 (ie. 2001 alfa money) mk3 golfs are reliable, newer mk4's may be experiencing some electronic niggles but they're not in our posters price range, given the choice I'd go for a '91 3-series over a 10year newer alfa any day, if only for the badge, prestige and adulation that goes with the uberpanzer ownership experience.

There's a lot of tossers driving them these days though, nouveau rich messers with no class and vulgar tasteless mods and kenko alloy wheels tainting the brand, I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable moving in same circles as these low-lifes, (gawd could you imagine having to talk to them) but it would be better than any alfa romeo proposition. or an almera.

Sonnenblumen

TigerTim wrote:

I stopped keeping up to date with my daily driver a few years ago after a 2001 Peugeot 607 broke my pocket with its French electronics. Sold it & took a 1991 Toyota Corolla as a trade in. It now has 190K miles and still going strong with 1 year left on the NCT. Not the most exciting car to drive & definitely not great to look at. The Missus is also mentioning its time to get rid of it. She has her own car so is only concerned about how it looks in the front drive. Anyway, only want to spend about €5K. I have seen a lot of Alfa 156 around 1999/2000/2001 advertised for this money or less. I have always admired their looks & have heard the driving experience is second to none. Will it be as troublesome as the Peugeot. I really got sick of seeing warning lights!!. Anyone own a 156. What are your experiences?. Any other cars to be recommended in this price range. Needs to be able to carry 3 kids to school & not Primera/Avensis.

Thanks,

T.

I doubt very much you'd get an Avensis for € 5k, but you'll probably get plenty of choice with Alfas.

If you think you will have less trouble with a €5k Alfa then you probably are nuts.

Anan1

528i wrote:

And what about all the other experts listed above, they wrong too ?

Are you trying to offload a 156 or something..

Like I said, the problem is the dealers, not the cars. We've had a 156 in our family for close on 130,000 miles, and it has behaved almost faultlessly. I don't think we'll be offloading it any time soon.:)

prospect

I must put you "BMWs are the be-all" guys in contact with a colleague of mine who recently handed back his 2007 X5 too the dealer because it has let him down completely on so many occasions. He was getting such a run around from the dealer he just returned the car and said he never wants to see it again and walked out.

To the OP:
Would you really take advice from people who make ridiculous sweeping statements?
You have people here saying ALL Alfas are crap, and then you have others saying the have owned alfas and had little or no trouble. Now, it is not too hard to figure out straight away that "All Alfas Are Crap" brigade are immediately proved wrong.

The fact is, a poorly looked after Alfa will most likely give trouble (as with any car). A well looked after Alfa that had the early timing belf change is less likely to give major trouble. A diesel Alfa is a very reliable machine, and probably the best diesel engine you can currently buy.

alias no.9

528i wrote:

You'll have a job looking after it yourself with simple servicing like changing spark-plugs and the oil filter on a 2.5 v6 being a 4hr ordeal requiring half the engine be removed, not for the casual DIY’er should he damage the heads @ €3000 replacement cost so you're more or less stuck with a main dealer (and all the shortcomings that go with that) as independents won't touch them with a barge pole either.

On the v6, like just about any other FWD car with transverse mounted v6, it is an absolute pig to change the plugs. Access is always tight when one of the heads is right up against the bulkhead. Just as well they only need to be done every 60k.
The twin spark on the other hand is an absolute doddle for the casual DIY'er. Everything is close at hand and easily accessible.

alias no.9

Sonnenblumen wrote:

I doubt very much you'd get an Avensis for € 5k, but you'll probably get plenty of choice with Alfas.

I guess that shows how you much you know. Wouldn't get an avensis for €5k, how about the 47 of them lisetd here on cbg.ie, or the 86 here on carzone.ie, not to mention another 25 on autotrader

Sonnenblumen wrote:

If you think you will have less trouble with a €5k Alfa then you probably are nuts.

I'm still waiting for all the trouble on my €4,500 alfa that I've had for nearly 2 years. You'll have to call round and point out to me where exactly this trouble is, cos I can't find it for the life of me.
The damn thing keeps starting whenever I turn the key. That can't be right according to sonnenblumen, the great expert on all things alfa.

528i

prospect wrote:

To the OP:
Would you really take advice from people who make ridiculous sweeping statements?
You have people here saying ALL Alfas are crap, and then you have others saying the have owned alfas and had little or no trouble. A diesel Alfa is a very reliable machine, and probably the best diesel engine you can currently buy.

The original poster should weigh up the pros and cons and make a calculated decision based on hard evidence and warning's from a myriad of dependable sources qualified to make such assertions and give such advice and insightful feedback on the car's notorious reliability problems and voracious appetite for open wallet surgery from an incompetent dealership network.

He should disregard sweeping carlsbergesque generalisations like "probably the best diesel engine you can buy" from emotionally unstable (and possibly exhaust fume intoxicated) alfisti sympathisers befuddling the situation.

You'll find the only people extolling their virtues in almost ferrari like delirium are the same one's either selling or hoarding\can't sell under the guise of future classic status in order to avail of cheaper tax & insurance, and to justify the presence of 'something' 'anything' in their garage late at night as an excuse to escape the clutches of a nagging missus.

But they're forgetting one thing, that redish brown oxide corrosion called 'natures reaction to cheap Italian steel\iron\tin-foil' and if left unhindered, would almost consume one before your very eyes :eek:

I've heard stories about some alfas starting on the button and 'never giving a bit of trouble', unfortunately they were from drunk people down the pub who were experiencing what's called a 'state of denial' before collapsing & vomiting all over themselves, but I'm sure it's entirely possible given the right environment and compulsory TCL etc.

Cyrus

528i and junkyard hate alfas always have, they are entitled to their opinion,

the fact is there arent many marques that wont give trouble, toyota or nissan maybe but bmw, vw and mercedes all have their problems

i have owned an alfa 156 1.8,mkiv golf gti, bmw e46 323ci and currently a bmw 530i, all in or around 50k miles when bough and funnily all need the same things at the same time, new maf, bushings replaced etc but not much else

granted i only keep cars for 7-9 mths at a time but the alfa wasnt any more or less expensive to keep for that period than anything else

Anan1

528i wrote:

The original poster should weigh up the pros and cons and make a calculated decision based on hard evidence and warning's from a myriad of dependable sources qualified to make such assertions and give such advice and insightful feedback on the car's notorious reliability problems and voracious appetite for open wallet surgery from an incompetent dealership network.

He should disregard sweeping carlsbergesque generalisations like "probably the best diesel engine you can buy" from emotionally unstable (and possibly exhaust fume intoxicated) alfisti sympathisers befuddling the situation.

You'll find the only people extolling their virtues in almost ferrari like delirium are the same one's either selling or hoarding\can't sell under the guise of future classic status in order to avail of cheaper tax & insurance, and to justify the presence of 'something' 'anything' in their garage late at night as an excuse to escape the clutches of a nagging missus.

But they're forgetting one thing, that redish brown oxide corrosion called 'natures reaction to cheap Italian steel\iron\tin-foil' and if left unhindered, would almost consume one before your very eyes :eek:

I've heard stories about some alfas starting on the button and 'never giving a bit of trouble', unfortunately they were from drunk people down the pub who were experiencing what's called a 'state of denial' before collapsing & vomiting all over themselves, but I'm sure it's entirely possible given the right environment and compulsory TCL etc.

At last, the real 528i emerges! Let the OP read this, and accord 528i's opinions the level of respect they deserve.;)

Cyrus

why does this always happen with alfa threads

i dont care what people think im getting the 3.2v6 gt or brera as soon as i can afford one!

PauloMN

Lex Luthor wrote:

My 523i gave me more trouble than the 156 ever did

Did you say that to the bloke you sold the 523i to?

528i

Anan1 wrote:

At last, the real 528i emerges! Let the OP read this, and accord 528i's opinions the level of respect they deserve.;)

Don't mind me, let the OP review honestjohn.co.uk, and accord their opinion the level of respect they deserves ;

Good points ;
One reader has reported 100% reliability for 12,000 miles.

Bad Points ;

• Trim quality not up to BMW standards.
• Usual Alfa build-quality problems with electrics.
• Fuel enrichment device may stick, leading to poor starting.
• Dealers are a very mixed bag.
• Resale values fell heavily in early 2000 even before price cuts.
• V6 and JDT can eat front tyres on the inside edge (need realiging with less toe-out).
• Very useful site for tips and fault finding: www.alfa156.net
• Air conditioning condensor vulnerable to stone damage.
• Bosch 'hot film' Mass Airflow Sensors seem to be failing regularly.
• FIAT/Alfa joint worst for breakdowns attended by German ADAC during 2001.
• 9th from Bottom of 100 models for reliability in Auto Express 2002 survey.
• 18th from Bottom in 144 car 2002 JD Power / What Car? Customer Satisfaction Survey of V and W reg cars.
• Alfa Romeo had joint highest average cost in warranty claims for cars up to 10 years old in 2002 Warranty Direct index
• Joint fourth bottom in 2002 Which reliability survey of cars up to 2 years old; 74 cars surveyed.
• Alfa Romeo 2nd least reliable of 31 makes of car in 2002 'Which?' reliability survey cars 2000 - 2002;
• 3rd least reliable cars 1997 - 1999. Only 87% breakdown free in 2003 Which survey.
• Alfa Romeo had fourth highest warranty repair costs in 2003 Warranty Direct Reliability index
• 98-2000 average for breakdowns and faults and poor for problems;
• 2001-2003 average for breakdowns and poor for problems and faults in 2003 Which survey.
• 7th from bottom out of 137 models in 2003 Top Gear survey.
• 156 8th bottom model and Alfa Romeo bottom marque in 2004 JD Power Customer Satisfaction Survey.
• Alfa Romeo 5th bottom of Reliability Index for 2004 combining average cost of repair of £392.88 with high 39.55 failures per 100
• Warranty Direct policies. Link:- www.reliabilityindex.co.uk
• Came 16th from bottom in 2005 JD Power/What Car Survey of 23,000 cars reg Sep 2002 to Aug 2003 with satisfaction score of 74.7%

What to Watch Out For ;
Worn front tyres on V6. Front suspension alignment, in particular toe-out is critical. Accident damage. Kerbed alloys. Make sure aircon works properly. Feel the discs through the wheels for scoring or shouldering. Paint problems with solid lacquered black. Worrying number of 2.0 litre engine failures due to oil starvation when engines were full of oil points a finger at oil pump failure. Timing belts and tensioners need changing way before scheduled 72k miles. See TSB to change them at 36k. Problems with 156 Selaspeed gearbox actuator and long wait for replacement parts. 'Tappety' sounding engine sign that car has been run with low or dirty oil and variable valve timing has been damaged. Make sure engine has specified oil pressure. Clonks from rear suspension mean that bolts through he aluminium suspension components have not been tightened periodically causing wear and replacement bushes take a long time to arrive. Make sure a/c blows cold as can leak refrigerant. Stoned glass headlight lenses cost £175 each to replace. Take care to grease bonnet catch regularly as vulnerable to road spray and the safety catch can stick open. Bonnet may then fly open and wrap itself around the windscreem. Prone to cracking their alloy sumps on speed humps. Timing belt failures of 4 cylinder twin sparks extremely common. Need new belts and tensoners every 35k - 40k miles or every 4 years whichever comes first. On 1.9JTDM timing belt drives waterpump and waterpump failure can fling it off in as little as 40k miles, wrecking the engine. Seems to be a braking problem on diesels, which have a vacuum pump for the brake servo assistance: can feel like total failure of brakes, but only happens intermittently. Replacing master cylinder has cured it in some cases. On 1.9 JTD if the engine smokes or the car suddenly loses power, the secondary butterflies of the swirl actuator valve may have sooted up and seized. Possible to clean but this does not guarantee it won't happen again. Really requires the inlet manifold to be changed as the part where the actuator connects to jams and does not let the butterflies open. Job can take six hours as the fuel pump and cam belt have to be removed to get at it. A coincidental fault is sooting up of the EGR valve.

Recalls ;
June 1999: Safety recall No 4054: Modify rear hinge mounting on all four side doors to prevent hinges splitting from doors. 2000: 156, built Nov '97-Oct '98: Brake pipe connector may crack and leak. September 2002: TSB issued to change timing belts and tensioners at 36,000 miles rather than 72,000 miles. 2-8-2002: Due to engine movement fuel delivery pipe from pump to inector rail may become strained and leak. Two extra support clips to be fitted. 73 cars affected (JTD's?); 1-10-2002: Metal brake pipe between master cylinder and ABS unit may chafe on a cable bracket. Check pipes and renew if damaged. 256 cars affected. 11-8-2003: Front suspension may loosen. Need to be replaced on 213 cars ZAR932---180021 to 229169 and 1253019 to 1316857. November 2004: TSB issued to dealers to check bonnet catch and bonnet safety catch.

Based on this overwhelming evidence which seems to run contrary to minority opinion here, I believe that one or two posts could be construed as misleading in this thread and would add the caveat 'never trust an alfa owner', be it on boards.ie, on the forecourt, or over an aperitivo down the pub

alias no.9

And here's Honest Johns similarly long list of what's bad and what to watch out for from the vw golf you suggest as an alternative. You'll notice I conveniently left out all that he said was good, just like you did with the alfa.

What's Bad
Steering originally very light but much improved for 2002 model year. Modification to 'B' pillar delayed production. Cable gearchange on all but 1.6 and 1.4, and have been problems with early 1.4 and 1.6 gearboxes. Original 1.8 20v and 1.8 20v Turbo work well but don't involve the driver. 1.8 20v replaced by old 115 bhp 2.0 litre 8 valver in 1999. 150bhp 1.8T supplemented by Anniversary 180bhp 1.8T with 6-speed box in late 2002 and this suffers variable build quality. The one I tried was nowhere near as good as a two year old SEAT Leon 20VT. Not everyone likes the relatively hard seats. Plastic coating rubs off the armrests of the doors and looks terrible. The back of the car gets very dirty. Alarm sensitivity on early production corrected by unnecessary pillar-mounted sensors (all drivers had to do was shut off the air supply to inside the car). Front door lock barrels of 1998 Golf Mk IVs can be prised out with a screwdriver and the windows opened without activating the microwave alarm. (Higher spec Golfs from 1999 on have ultra sonic alarms which can only be deactivated by the remote fob.) Heavy, so slower than Mk III when fitted with the same engines. Some TD 110s had a problem of stalling while coasting to a standstill from about 15 mph in neutral. The cure was to replace the ECU, but if the car was a personal import out of its 12-month pan-Euro warranty, the owner had to pay. This problem now seems to be coming back on high mileage TDI 110s. VAG acknowledges a fault with the ECU (038 906 018 BM) and specifies an upgraded unit (038 906 018 GQ) at £695.00 + VAT. According to VAG technical, this problem will eventually occur with all ECUs of this part number, so a second hand part may only be only a short term cure. Glass headlamp lenses of GTI and Highline models break easily and cost £260 to replace. Best protected by £25 headlamp protectors from VW dealers. To change a headlight bulb you need to take the entire front bumper off. VW charges a fortune to do this but its not hard, takes about 1-2 hours, maybe 15 screws but it is easy.
If you have very small hands can probably do it with bumper on. Quite a few build quality niggles, especially on South African (SA VIN cars), such as squeaking seats, rattling window mechanisms inside doors which can fail entirely, clutch bearing failure, flywheel failure, trim panel for sunroof falling off rails, side window glass coming out of carriers, pipe to rear washer coming off and staining ceiling trim. If electric windows fail, its a £30 gear and cable though VW will only sell you the entire motor system for £200, plus fitting plus investigation charge = £430. Electrical problems in the tailgate from screenwash dripping from the (push fit) connection between the screenwash hose and the wiper motor assembly. Crimp ring around connection stops this. Also reports of complete failure of ancilliary electrics and problems with six speed gearbox on TDI 115. Reports of problems with V6 4-Motions: excess tyre wear, pulling to the left, same problem with printed circuit boards of self levelling Xenon headlights as occurred with Honda Accord Type R (same supplier). In damp weather, which then turns to freezing weather, the soft door seals are apt to freeze up and either make the doors impossible to open or tear when the doors are opened. Silicone grease is the answer. Audi A3 problem of leaking rear brake fluid union finding its way into early Mk IV Golfs. Some earlier Mk IVs with lowered suspension could ground their sumps on road humps. Mass Airflow Sensor problems common on 1.8T. For 1.8T problems and their solutions, go to forums.vwvortex.com/zeroforum?id=27 Reports of early timing belt faulure on 1.4 and 1.6 16vs due to failure of plastic tesnioner pulley. Faulty power steering switch on 1.6 can cause hunting of engine and erratic idle. Poor performance and fuel economy of Y and 51 reg 1.6 16vs may be due to fault with ECU, cured under warranty by dealer replacing the ECU. 1.8 20v engines are snapping their timing belts at 70,000 - 80,000 miles and the extensive damage this causes is not repairable. The car will need a replacement engine. 1.8 20v timing belt drives waterpump and belts are difficult to replace on transverse engines. Bosch 'hot film' Mass Airflow Sensors seem to be failing regularly. All 1.8 20V turbos built from around August 2001 to October 2002 can suffer from failure of one or more of the four ignition coils, which lead to a dispute butween VAG and a supplier and a severe shortage of coils from November 2002 to January 2003. Cabin leaks can be cause by misalighned water shield cover over the pollen filter (very fiddly to replace). Alarming number of water pump failure on 1.4s leading to timing belt failure and engines self destructing as early as 4 years and 37,000 miles. Intermittent power loss on TDI 90s and 110s may be due to one of the following:- sticking turbo due to dirty oil; dirty or faulty mass airflow sensor; exhaust gas recircularion solenoid valve sticking open; wastegate valve actuator rod sticking; faulty throttle switches; faulty temperature sensor; loose or leaking brake servo pipe or turbo boost pipe from fuel pump to turbo; faulty ECU; faulty Relay 109 (if it's white it needs to be replaced with a new spec relay coloured grey, costs £11). Golf Mk IV TDI starting problems may be cured by replacing the 109 Relay with p/n 1J0 906 381A (grey instead of black) uprated version - a little better. (about £10.00), and replaced the engine temperature sensor which also regulates the fuel supply via the ECU with uprated sensor (green) instead of blue)p/n 059 919 501A (about £24.00).

1.4 16v and 1.6 16v engines have plastic timing belt pulleys which can shatter after about 40,000 miles, throwing off the belt, now failing regularly, though fortunately the belts are rarely flung off when this happens. On early 1999/2000V reg estates the rear side window rubber mouldings oxidise and become sticky. Cooling fan motors of TDI PD 150 prone to failure. Manual transmissions of 1.4s and 1.6s prone to failure due to corrosion and cracking of the casing, but VW has still contributed up to 70% of of the cost for cars up to 5 years old. Lack of oil to the cams, especially the cam working the PD injectors, can cause severe camshaft wear. Seems to affect the TDI PD 150 thr most. So engine needs clean oil. Change every 7k miles max even using 506.01. Seems that the smaller electric fan on PD TDis, V5s and R32s is failing regularly and requiring a £400 replacement. Apparently the
internal resistors in the fan unit break down, stopping the smaller fan from working constantly, as it should when the air con is on. This results in the larger engine fan, designed for cooling the radiator, to pulse on and off constantly, even when the engine is cold. Golf owners have reported through various websites that this can cause the main fan fuse to blow, potentially causing overhetaing problems in traffic. Windows come off carriers inside door because the plastic clip which hold them in place can break. The fix is metal clips. VW Customer Care has been known to pay up if the car is less than 5 years old.

1998-2000 petrol models average for breakdowns and faults, poor for problems; 2001-2003 petrol models average for problems, poor for breakdowns and faults in 2003 Which survey.




What to Watch Out For
RHD personal imports not to full UK spec - especially estate cars. Some TDI 110s suffered a low-speed running problem which could only be cured by a modified flywheel and inlet manifold and in some cases a re-chipped ECU. See faults list above. On early Mk IVs look for rear brake fluid leaks as hydraulic connection to rear brake callipers can corrode due to types of metals used. Look under engine for damage to sump from road humps. "dog bone" gearbox mount seems to fail causing excessive vibration in car or clutch slippage.

JATCO advises owners not to carry out AUTOMATIC transmission fluid changes hemselves because it's difficult to ensure the correct amount is added (the gearbox needs to be run to a specific temperature - This requires diagnostic equipment) and probably they will use the wrong oil, e.g. Land Rover Discovery ATF is different from a Land Rover Freelander, and Jaguar X-Type (Jatco) uses different ATF to a Land Rover Freelander (Jatco).

Check aircon because air condition compressor clutch failure becoming common.

During June 2007, flywheels and clutches for diesels were "on back order".
Recalls
Announced Daily Telegraph 1/10/98: 9,500 Mk 1V Golfs from SE spec upwards fitted with volumetric alarms recalled to fit less sensitive volumetric sensors. (Not actually necessary because problem can be solved by using ventilation control to shut off outside air.) 1999: 70 early production 115 PDs recalled to replace pistons because they were not properly coated with a Teflon-like material in production. 22/1/2001 (Estate only): Welding faults on the seams of the ISOFIX mounting bars may occur. ISOFIX mounting bars to be re-welded. 26/2/2001: Build October and November 2000: Passenger airbag may not inflate correctly due to leak in pressure reservoir of gas generator. Passenger airbags to be replaced. (149 cars affected: same fault as on SEAT Leon and Toledo and Skoda Fabia.) 1/12/2001: Limited recall of seven Golf and Bora 4-Motion models built 1/2/1997 to 28/2/2000 because moisture can enter rear axle ball joints causing corrosion of the joints leading them to seaze and the suspension transverse arm to snap. Ball joints and transverse arm to be replaced. April 2002: German recall of all Golfs with standard ABS (no problem with those with ABS + EDS, ASR, ESP.) Led to Worldwide recall in June 2002. 9/5/2002: 24,703 Boras and Golfs recalled because electrical fault in ABS ECU could cause overheating, possibly even leading to fire damage. 26/3/2003: On 69,778 Boras and Golfs the brake servo vacuum supply pipe may crack and leak resulting in loss of power assistance to the brakes requiring more driver effort to stop. Examine vacuum supply pipe and fit improved quality replacement where necessary. 3-3-05 on LUPO,POLO,GOLF,BORA, TOURAN,NEW BEETLE,PASSAT AND SHARAN (WITH 2 PUMP INJECTOR ENGINE) built 1-3-04 to 31-8-04 bolts on tandem fuel pump may break. December 2005: VW dealers sending letters to owners of 1.9TDI PD130 and PD150 engined models 4 years old or more to have their timing belts and tensioners changed at 4 years or 40k miles whichever comes first.

5-8-2006 Ever helpful www.chillywillys.org reports: " 1998 - 2003 Golfs seem to have been a bit of an issue this year, customers reporting erratic compressor behaviour. Firstly, the compressor is a variable displacement type. This means it should be constantly engaged. and not, therefore clicking in and out. Should the owner experience disengagement and therefore timely warm temperatures through the vents, it is likely the control box immediately over the battery is at fault. By removing the cover it is possible to see the fused links that are prone to vibration fractures, particularly on diesel variants. If one or more of these linkages is broken, replacement should sort the naughty compressor out. This error does not show a code on the VAG diagnostic machine, apparently."

prospect

528i wrote:

The original poster should weigh up the pros and cons and make a calculated decision based on hard evidence and warning's from a myriad of dependable sources qualified to make such assertions and give such advice and insightful feedback on the car's notorious reliability problems and voracious appetite for open wallet surgery from an incompetent dealership network.

He should disregard sweeping carlsbergesque generalisations like "probably the best diesel engine you can buy" from emotionally unstable (and possibly exhaust fume intoxicated) alfisti sympathisers befuddling the situation.

You'll find the only people extolling their virtues in almost ferrari like delirium are the same one's either selling or hoarding\can't sell under the guise of future classic status in order to avail of cheaper tax & insurance, and to justify the presence of 'something' 'anything' in their garage late at night as an excuse to escape the clutches of a nagging missus.

But they're forgetting one thing, that redish brown oxide corrosion called 'natures reaction to cheap Italian steel\iron\tin-foil' and if left unhindered, would almost consume one before your very eyes :eek:

I've heard stories about some alfas starting on the button and 'never giving a bit of trouble', unfortunately they were from drunk people down the pub who were experiencing what's called a 'state of denial' before collapsing & vomiting all over themselves, but I'm sure it's entirely possible given the right environment and compulsory TCL etc.

LOL,

I'll give you credit for one thing, you are quite a good at writing pure fiction....

I suppose you are going to tell us all that the diesel engine in a BMW of the same price range is better that the ground breaking common rail which was introduced to the world in the 156!

I agree that all are entitled to an opinion, but not all are entitled to make up rubbish to try and prove a point that cannot be proved.


Cyrus,

Did you ever notice that Alfa threads are always hijacked by BMW fans. It is quite obvious that they feel very threatened by a manufacturer that produce cars that are far more beautiful, far more full of soul, far more engaging to drive, far better equipped, far better value, and in the most recent models they are equal if not better build quality.

cjt156

Ahh here we are again...

Some get it some don't.
OP, test drive a few, see if you like 'em, get a history & - if you buy it - service it. Or you could read all that sh!te above...

whosedaddy?

just had to make similar decision...

My old car got into a not roadworthy state, so new car had to be bought.
Similar (slightly higher budget) But I wanted a Diesel engine and a hatchback/estate.

Looked high and low and despite me saying my Peugeot 306 was the last Peugeot budget contraints had me look at the 307.
I also looked at an Alfa 156 2.4l JTD.

After test driving both - I was off the Peugeot.
Despite honestJohn and ADAC and god knows what statistics the Alfa stayed on the cards.

Talking to lots of friends/colleagues about possible other cars (as respective owners of one) I figured (as youy all know) statistics are great, but what good is it that statistically your car almost never breaks down, but you got a lemon..... And also same holds true the other way round.

Long story short, I bought the Alfa and in the 10 days I have it - I has not broken down :-) Sure the suspension squeaks, but service is coming up and should fix that for a while.

I suppose buying a car is more about gut feeling/ emotional involvement than hard economics/statistics.

Will I regret having bought the Alfa - it probably depends on my experience going forward. But would I want to miss the fun I am having driving it until the trouble starts - absolutely not.

How to decide whether to buy the Alfa? Are you nuts buying one - probably. If you do buy, enjoy while it lasts and don't look back.

If you decide to buy a reliable Jap car - please post your experience in case it turns out to be a lemon... At least with Alfa the possible faults come as part of the package.

/WD

Tony Danza

You can find lots of reviews of 156's on www.ciao.co.uk. Almost every review I've read on it say that mechanically the cars have been fine, but the build quality is questionable, for example a fuel cap falling off was one, problem with an indicator stalk another review said. Based on those reviews, I wouldn't mind buying an Alfa, if I found a nice one that I liked. I was thinking about getting one myself, not too long ago, but decided against it, because if I was to get one, I'd like to get a really nice one with all the works, nice alloys, side skirts, leather seats, but to get a really nice example of a 156, you do have to pay for it, which was my main reason for not getting one. And I think if you want to be able to sell it on later, you really do need to pick up a nice example because there are just so many of them out there for sale, but if you're spending 5000 I presume resale won't be a massive issue, I'd say go for it. You won't get a much nicer car than a 156 for that money. Just look around for what you can get for 5000, a 156 is the best value for money by a distance in my opinion.