Threat of ban from Limerick City forum

Schuhart

Folk

I’m under threat of a ban in the Limerick City forum for having the temerity to suggest that differentiating between Northern Ireland and the Republic in the context of the redeployment of Aer Lingus landing slots reflects a Unionist outlook. It will be readily appreciated that this is not the same as suggesting that someone is expressing a unionist viewpoint by acknowledging the plain fact that Belfast is in the UK – which is the spin the moderator of that forum is rather strangely trying to maintain is at issue.

I think the threat should go. Its clear aim is just to exclude an opinion from the discussion that is relevant but unpalatable.

The thread is here. I’ve PM’d the moderator. As I've said, he refuses to lift the ban and pretends the issue is about someone just stating the fact that Belfast is in the UK – although the original remark was to the effect that Aer Lingus should prioritise people in the Republic ahead of people in the North so this is obvious bunk.

Any opinions most welcome.

Blowfish

Schuhart wrote:

Any opinions most welcome.

You deserved it. Billy was bang on.

Terry

Dude, Belfast is in the U.K.

Seriously.
They have their own government in Northern Ireland too.
Stormont castle is the location, I believe.

Am I a unionist for seeing the facts as they truly are?
No. I'm just a realist.

I'd love to see a 32 county Ireland, but it just ins't going to happen. Time to move on.

nesf

I don't know if you were old enough to vote in it, but we took out our claim to the north from the constitution in a referendum a few years back.

billy the squid

Jesus Mary and joseph, I haven't even banned this guy and there are threads in feedback about me. I seem to be popular this week.

for the record, I never banned this individual, i threatened to ban him. if he wants to push up his postcount by pissing and moaning about it then don't let me stop him.

Schuhart

Lads, I can cope with disagreement. I can even admit when I'm wrong. Unfortunately, you're not really addressing the point. As I said in the first post, what's at issue is not some idea that someone who simply acknowledges the plain fact that Belfast is in the UK is expressing a unionist opinion. Its raising that fact in this context that is at issue.

Incidently, I got a rather strange response back from the moderator of that forum, in response to a PM that I sent him telling him I was taking it up here. Seeing as how he has told me not to send him any more PMs I take it that I'll have to respond to it here

Billy the Squid wrote:

The united Kingdom is a foreign country, and belfast is a part of it. That is why the minister for FORREIGNAFFAIRS deals with it.

I don't care if you think that is a unionist point of view or not, but I will not have you question people's loyalty to their country because they disagree with you.

If I wanted to I could say that you calling someone a unionist is like something someone would post on stormfront, but I won't because it would probably offend you.

Now, do not send me any more messages,

Can I suggest the statement highlighted above sort of makes my case for me. 'Country' to him means 26 counties - remember he's saying 'country', not jurisdiction.

I've no problem with people having a unionist outlook. I just don't see why we have to be shy about pointing out when that what they are expressing. Billy is not just expressing an administrative fact - he's saying that he regards the six counties as part of another country, same as the DUP. He might not like hearing it, but I didn't think that moderation was about suppressing opinion we found disturbing.

Incidently, he's also wrong about Northern Ireland being dealt with by the Minister for Foreign Affairs. Northern Ireland policy is the direct responsibility of the Taoiseach.

At the end of the day, I think Billy is just plain confused. Fine, happens to all of us. But he made an error of judgement and I think that needs to be reversed.

Schuhart

billy the squid wrote:

for the record, I never banned this individual, i threatened to ban him.

You've stopped me from pursuing a relevant line of debate in the thread in question, which has actually been picked up by another poster that I cannot give an adequate reply to. I need you to lift the threat to give an adequate response. Or are you suggesting that I have to trip over the wire, get a months ban and then go through the whole Jerry Springer experience here.

Incidently, I can't understand why you are 'clarifying' that you haven't banned me. As I said in my first post

Schuhart wrote:

I’m under threat of a ban in the Limerick City forum

.

Why not just lift the threat and we can never speak of this again.

Blowfish

Schuhart wrote:

Incidently, I can't understand why you are 'clarifying' that you haven't banned me. As I said in my first post.

You also said this:

Schuhart wrote:

The thread is here. I’ve PM’d the moderator. As I've said, he refuses to lift the ban and pretends the issue is about someone just stating the fact that Belfast is in the UK – although the original remark was to the effect that Aer Lingus should prioritise people in the Republic ahead of people in the North so this is obvious bunk.

In light of that, his clarification makes perfect sense.

Schuhart wrote:

Why not just lift the threat and we can never speak of this again.

lollers.

arch_stanton

I think you´re the confused one, mixing up a geographic area, ie. the island or Ireland with a political entity, ie. a country. Which national elections do people in the north vote in? Are they entitled to UK passports (yes, I know they can also get Republic of Ireland passports but people from the south aren´t automatically entitled to UK passports), to whom do they pay their taxes, if they are arrested which legal system applies, who issues their currency, what constitution covers them, is there a border between north and south, do they have a separate army? I can go on and on. Politically it's a different country. You're entitled to your opinion on whether that`s a good thing or a bad thing but you can´t change the facts.

Schuhart

Blowfish wrote:

You also said this:
In light of that, his clarification makes perfect sense.

Oops. You are, of course, completely right.

arch_stanton wrote:

I think you´re the confused one, mixing up a geographic area, ie. the island or Ireland with a political entity, ie. a country.

Unfortunately, you then go on to list a number of features relating to jurisdiction rather than country.

I don't mean to be discourteous but, again, I've made the issue clear enough in my first post and you are, unfortunately, falling into the trap of thinking that the problem is about simply stating the fact that Belfast is in the UK.

Terry

Schuhart wrote:

Can I suggest the statement highlighted above sort of makes my case for me. 'Country' to him means 26 counties - remember he's saying 'country', not jurisdiction.

Yeah. It's called the Republic of Ireland.
Limerick is part of it.
Belfast is not.

Do you understand that?

RoundyMooney

Seconded.

Billy's actions were bang on the money. Just roll with it OP, your right to post has not been withdrawn.

Schuhart

Terry wrote:

Yeah. It's called the Republic of Ireland.
Limerick is part of it.
Belfast is not.

Do you understand that?

Indeed, as I pointed out as much in my first post. Clearly you haven't understood what's at issue.

RoundyMooney wrote:

Billy's actions were bang on the money. Just roll with it OP, your right to post has not been withdrawn

I'm still posting in the thread - I just really cannot agree that there was any need to place this restriction on them. I really can't relate to the 'Bang on the money' statement. Can you expand (at the risk of exceeding your interest threshold)?

Jack B. Badd

You're under the threat of a ban, which means if you really want to post your views that badly, you can. Granted, if you do, you'll be banned. Welcome to the internet, it's like a trial version of the real world where your actions have consequences :rolleyes:

Schuhart

Jack B. Badd wrote:

Granted, if you do, you'll be banned.

You do realise that this statement sort of undermines your whole post?

Pity. I'm sure in some other context it could have been quite effective. I'd say hold on to it for a few months and use it again.

Blackjack

I think Billy the Squid was on the money, as it happens.

Anyone want to bet when the pictures of Cats will appear?.

Schuhart

Blackjack wrote:

I think Billy the Squid was on the money, as it happens.

Thank you for that cogently argued case.

Cats?

Fysh

Schuhart wrote:

You do realise that this statement sort of undermines your whole post?

You realise that equating "Unionist" with "recognises that the Six Counties are not part of the Republic of Ireland" sort of makes you look like either an extreme hard-liner or a complete fool, both of which are impossible to argue with and will thus end up being laughed at and possibly, knowing what Feedback is like, just bombarded with lolcat pics?

Oh, you do? Eeeeeeeeeeeexcellent.

Seriously. As per most other people in this thread, I concur - a point was made to you, you've continued to argue, and thus got a banthreat. Carry on if you want, and you'll get banned. Hell, then you can even claim to be a martyr to your views/the truth/giant pink bunnies in the sky. At this stage I doubt rational discussion is going to do much to sway what must, for want of a better word, be referred to as your thinking on the subject.

Jack B. Badd

Schuhart wrote:

You do realise that this statement sort of undermines your whole post?

Pity. I'm sure in some other context it could have been quite effective. I'd say hold on to it for a few months and use it again.

That statement sort of was the crux of my whole post. I was going for a cause and effect thing, the effect of which went right over your head...

Schuhart

Fysh wrote:

You realise that equating "Unionist" with "recognises that the Six Counties are not part of the Republic of Ireland" sort of makes you look like either an extreme hard-liner or a complete fool,

I would recognise that, if that was what I was saying, I would indeed be a complete fool. That's why I haven't said that, explained that I'm not saying that in my first post and repeated that I'm not saying that in several posts on this very thread.

I don't know. Do we normally talk in feedback as if someone had said what we wanted them to say instead of what they actually said? In that case can I express my dismay at your support for the repeal of the plastic bag tax.

Fysh wrote:

bombarded with lolcat pics?

Mostly I'm here just to be a pain in the arse, but I've actually never seen the cat pics of which you speak. But I find myself strangely excited by the idea, as I'm very fond of my pussy.

Schuhart

Jack B. Badd wrote:

That statement sort of was the crux of my whole post. I was going for a cause and effect thing, the effect of which went right over your head...

Sorry, Jack, you've lost it. Discretion is the better part of valour. No one will think any less of you if you just stop posting on the thread. I know I'll still respect you.

Terry

Schuhart wrote:

I'm not changing anyone's words. It's simply a fact that someone who sees any part of Ireland outside of the jurisdiction of the Republic as being as foriegn as any other country is stating a unionist viewpoint. That may be unpalatable to you, but it is simply a fact.

Fysh wrote:

You realise that equating "Unionist" with "recognises that the Six Counties are not part of the Republic of Ireland" sort of makes you look like either an extreme hard-liner or a complete fool, both of which are impossible to argue with and will thus end up being laughed at and possibly, knowing what Feedback is like, just bombarded with lolcat pics?

Schuhart wrote:

I would recognise that, if that was what I was saying, I would indeed be a complete fool. That's why I haven't said that, explained that I'm not saying that in my first post and repeated that I'm not saying that in several posts on this very thread.

What exactly is it that you are saying?

All I see is you equating anyone who recognises the fact that there is no 32 county Ireland as a unionist.

Crucifix

Is the issue the definition of country? That you see it as the land mass, and others see it as the political entity? If I said the Irish free state doesn't include the 6 counties, would that still be, in your opinion, a Unionist viewpoint?

Fysh

Schuhart wrote:

I would recognise that, if that was what I was saying, I would indeed be a complete fool. That's why I haven't said that, explained that I'm not saying that in my first post and repeated that I'm not saying that in several posts on this very thread.

In that case, can you clarify what exactly you meant by "However, someone who feels the North should be treated as a foreign country clearly is advocating a unionist position" if it's not what I said earlier, ie that to your mind the term Unionist encompasses any point of view which treats the Six Counties as not being part of the political entity that is the Republic Of Ireland? (It's been asked by others, but I presume you're not just referring to the geographical/landmass aspect).

Schuhart wrote:

I don't know. Do we normally talk in feedback as if someone had said what we wanted them to say instead of what they actually said? In that case can I express my dismay at your support for the repeal of the plastic bag tax.Mostly I'm here just to be a pain in the arse, but I've actually never seen the cat pics of which you speak. But I find myself strangely excited by the idea, as I'm very fond of my pussy.

Well, it depends. If you claim a fact that can't be patently proven to a fact, then fail to back it up, and then talk snarkily to people who point this out, then there's not really any rules for what can happen. Other than The Cats From Lolthar making an appearance.

N8

It's the Martin McGuinness Cat

Boston

Terry wrote:

What exactly is it that you are saying?

All I see is you equating anyone who recognises the fact that there is no 32 county Ireland as a unionist.

Filthy unionist scum. <insert smile>

Schuhart

Terry wrote:

All I see is you equating anyone who recognises the fact that there is no 32 county Ireland as a unionist.

Reflect on the phrase 'as foreign as any other country' and you might get the point.

It really is terribly clear that I'm not talking about recognition of the factual position. Its mildly disappointing that people just keep missing this point, but there you go.

Any more cats?

OTK

The words 'country' and 'unionist' have multiple meanings. I think this is the source of the confusion. 'Country' is not always synonymous with being a United Nations member state. Catalonia, England, Taiwan and Kurdistan spring to mind as places often correctly described as countries.

I am sure people reading this thread have separate definitions of unionism. The word 'unionist' should not be treated as an insult. To do so shows poor moderation.

nesf

OTK wrote:

I am sure people reading this thread have separate definitions of unionism. The word 'unionist' should not be treated as an insult. To do so shows poor moderation.

The problem is that it can be interpreted as an insult and that's where the issue really lies. In some contexts it most definitely is an insult, in others it's a compliment.

Fysh

Schuhart wrote:

It really is terribly clear that I'm not talking about recognition of the factual position. Its mildly disappointing that people just keep missing this point, but there you go.

There's a slight problem with trying for the enigmatic "no, that's not it either" approach to selectively dealing with people's questions on here. You're trying to leverage public opinion in your favour against what you see as an unfair ban threat. By posting the way you have been (essentially failing to offer any positive clarification of what you actually mean by "unionist", other than quoting certain posts and saying "not what I meant") you're losing what little chance you had of anyone here siding with you in the event you do get banned.

I'll repeat myself, as others already have done: can you clarify what exactly you meant by "However, someone who feels the North should be treated as a foreign country clearly is advocating a unionist position"?

Terry

Schuhart wrote:

Reflect on the phrase 'as foreign as any other country' and you might get the point.

It really is terribly clear that I'm not talking about recognition of the factual position. Its mildly disappointing that people just keep missing this point, but there you go.

Any more cats?

Foreign: Subject to the jurisdiction of another political unit.

Slow Motion

Jack B. Badd wrote:

Welcome to the internet, it's like a trial version of the real world where your actions have consequences :rolleyes:

Bravo ! Best line I've read all day

billy the squid

Schuhart wrote:

Reflect on the phrase 'as foreign as any other country' and you might get the point.

It really is terribly clear that I'm not talking about recognition of the factual position. Its mildly disappointing that people just keep missing this point, but there you go.

Any more cats?

You really are talking **** do you know that.

If you are claiming that you were not using the term "unionist" in an effort to be emotive, then you are a bald faced liar, I cannot think of any other reason you would use such a term on an Irish website.

Northern Ireland is in a foreign country, that is why northern ireland is the remit of the minister for foreign affairs, does that make every government deputy since the foundation of the state a unionist?

I suggest you take a few minutes out, cop yourself on and stop acting the prick

Jack B. Badd

Slow Motion wrote:

Bravo ! Best line I've read all day

At last, the recognition I deserve!

Schuhart, can you explain what you do mean without using negative terms (e.g. "I meant this" as opposed to "I didn't mean that. Or that. Or that...")?