Gear Threads ... a dilemma

leinsterman

Notwithstanding the fact that most of us would like this place to be welcoming to strangers and new blood ... and very often people get started in the forum through "What gear should I buy?" threads (at least in my case this was true ... I still post gear threads from time to time) ... I think we face a dilemma ...

It seems apparent to me that the sticky Gear Thread is not working ... it is too long, out of date and people don't seem to want to read it any more ...
in addtion I am getting the impression that there has been a flood of gear threads of late ... making the forum a little less interesting (at least for me... and I'm a gearhead!!) ... If I have to recommend Langford's book again I'll go mad ... but there is a recent thread here where some of the frustration is starting to show ... and the comment about how welcoming we are has been made ...

I am wondering if a sub-forum for Gear advice is needed ?

The only problem is regular and expert posters would have to post in it for it to be of value to the newbies ... otherwise the place is not so welcoming which is a very important part of an open community like ours ... it will probably end up a place where many new posters get started ...

Any thoughts ?

Fajitas!

If there's a forum for gear created, I can pretty much assure you the majority of posting won't be answered by any of us 'regulars'*. For some, photography is just buying a camera to take photos of a piss up. It might be annoying for regular users of the forum to see another "Best buy for under 200 quid" thread, but I can imagine it being just as frustrating posting a thread in a forum for buying new cameras etc and noone answering, while people on the main forum are too busy talking about apertures and 45 point AF systems.

As for referring books, I think that's a bit of an unfair point - fair enough, people should be looking back over the previous threads to find there's many other people in the same situations, but it's not that difficult just to say 'Hey, check [link]this[/link] out' - You'd never know, it could be the start of a great photographer.

And at the end of the day, the threads are pretty self explanitory from the titles...if it dosn't interest you, you don't have to click it. (I know sports threads generally don't interest me... but even then, I'll click on them to have a clean, read forum )

I don't mean any of this in an offensive fashion, esp against you Si, as I can see why it could be quite annoying, but people have to start somewhere... *remembers starting a thread about 250 quids worth of lomography gear, to have it all shot down*



*Not meaning that in an elitest way.

mikeanywhere

Well said however, if the current stickied version isnt used what makes a sub-forum any better?

EDIT: It doesnt help that a lot of threads are not made available after a period of time so thats one of the reasons I can see why people still continue to ask the same questions.

leinsterman

Don't get me wrong Fajitas ... I'm not sure of the best approach either ... as I said above ... I'd like to hear the opinions of others is all I was talking about ...

I always make it a point of checking out gear advice threads ... and giving advice ... in fact I just posted in a few ...

I just think if we have a sub forum we can have more stickys in it on things like books and stuff that needs regular advice ... As many times as I've recommended Langford as a reference to newbies ... I'll keep doing it ... I just wonder have we considered all the options together with their pros and cons ...


Anyways Al you'll have to be nicer to me when you start your new job

ThOnda

I agree. There are different questions about cameras, that we can forward absolutely newbies to that existing thread and to try answer more precise and specific questions. I think that thread is enough and who wants good information, (s)he should be able to read that sticky.

Fajitas!

It's a bit of a job to take on, in so far as keeping these *look here for your cameras* threads updated.

As I said, if the threads were in a seperate forum, I don't think regular people would bother looking in there as much - the threads are out of the way that bit more. It's a great solution to keeping them out of the way, but could lead to a situation where peoples questions ain't answered, they post the questions in the main forum, and are told to post it in the subforum...for it not to be answered.

I'll always try to help someone on here if I can... But I can't reply to a lot of the threads about P&S's because I just don't know them as well as I would an SLR/DSLR - considering how many options are out there.

As for advice, I don't know if a generic *advice thread* is the way to go, but it certainally would be something. What would others think of a *I'm completly new to/don't know what I'm doing Photography, and need some help* thread? Containing links & resources?

nilhg

I think its hard to be to severe on people for posting new threads when the search function on boards is as poor as it is, though it is annoying when people start new threads when they obviously haven't made any effort to find the info they want.

As for the sticky it is probably in need of a good editing at this stage some of it is 5 or 6 months old and there is probably too much 350d v 400d v d40 v d40s v the rest type stuff in it.

mikeanywhere

The only thing to do then is that the Mod will have to keep moving the various thread to the right section but as already mentioned, it will take some doing!!

Mind you Al, with all the spare time you have, you will find it easy enough :cool:

Fajitas!

How does everyone know about that?


Lol!

mikeanywhere

A man in the know me!!

rymus

good news travels fast... scandal travels faster

sineadw

hehe...

I dunno - TBH when I'm looking for PS advice fast the last place I post is the digital darkroom. Sub forums get ignored a little, or overlooked. I would be a major culprit in that one. I think if we were to have a sub forum as suggested it would have to be 'volunteered', and I know I wouldn't have the time/energy/know-how to do so. I think its a matter of 'if you don't want to read it, don't click on it'?

5uspect

Here's an idea (and probably a terrible one, but hear me out!)
Scrap the "what camera" sticky, and take a freshly posted thread looking for camera advice and sticky that for a week or so. Hopefully that may act as a sponge for new requests for a few weeks, then take another thread and unsticky the old one and let is off on its merry way.

That way the amount of individual threads may be reduced and with some merging etc to clean things up as needed.

Roen

Ban stick, only way to go!

5uspect

oh well, I had it coming I guess.
I'll get my coat...

Borderfox

In terms of the gear thread and the best camera under €200, why not just copy the results of one of the tests from the various magazines into a sticky and see if people use that more?

mikeanywhere

sineadw wrote:

hehe...

I dunno - TBH when I'm looking for PS advice fast the last place I post is the digital darkroom. Sub forums get ignored a little, or overlooked. I would be a major culprit in that one. I think its a matter of 'if you don't want to read it, don't click on it'?

Said it perfectly!!!

bigeoino

can they be moved afterwards?
what I mean is can all the "gear" conversations be moved to the appropriate place afterwards (x days after last post?).

This solves the dilemma of a poor search engine as you can just direct people to the Gear sub forum/ archive...

I know it increases management time but allows for multiple threads rather than a long sticky which may or may not be read so much any more.

Just an idea

elven

Ach I dunno. It's about balance, and when I came back from hols and found 4 pages of "I want to buy my gf a digital camera and it needs to be less than €200 and small and take movies and be 10 megapixels (and no I haven't bothered doing a google search for any reviews whatsoever)", well, what can you do but try to balance it up with something else? It is annoying though when stuff gets pushed off the front page because of the sheer amount of them though

I'm always surprised when people do get serious replies to those threads but if they do, well, good for them I suppose, that means there must be people who are happy to answer them.

I think a sticky (cleaned up and locked) with the basic "How to choose the right camera for you" and resources like online shops and reviews - avoiding specific model references, let the reviews show what's currently popular - would work better because it wouldn't have tons of stuff to wade through. Basically everything that we find ourselves repeating over and over:

Decide if you need a compact, bridge or DSLR - size/weight, range of focal lengths, control over shutter speed/aperture
Hold the camera in your hands to see if you find it comfortable
Don't be swayed by the extra megapixels argument
In body/lens image stabilisation and making sure it isn't just a high ISO mode
Sensor cleaning pros/cons
If you buy from HK you take chances with postage, damages and VAT
If you buy from a shop locally it will cost more
Accessories you might need - tripod, flash, filters, bag

That sort of stuff.

Paulw

One option might be for regulars to ignore new gear threads, and simply refer the person to the already sticky gear thread?

rymus

the only thing that'll stop the tide of "I want to buy a cheap, brilliant camera" threads is a round of locking, deleting and banning. Do it now, before the noobs take over!

Ignoring wouldnt work because some spanner will always reply. I cant see creating an ultimate sticky on the subject will work either because everyone thinks their query is unique.

What's called for is fascist, decisive action. When someone posts a thread looking for x, y or z camera, ban them immediately and hopefully we'll never see them again. I might be so bold as to suggest a site-wide ban as opposed to a local one. Perhaps also a ban on their IP subnet, just to make sure they won't come back...

Either that or a subforum to act as a landfill for all the gear threads... Whichever works...

Calina

I don't generally contribute to the point and click queries because I am not anywhere near qualified to. And the stickies aren't going to work because everyone thinks they're unique and anyway, available gear keeps changing.

All this has been pointed out.

The way to combat the vast number of "what should I buy threads" is to up the count of C&C and Friday Post threads. I note Simon already tried this with his "why photography" and "come along and meet us" threads. Thing is, i've benefited greatly from advice from people particularly vis a vis the 10-20mm, and I know that some people have benefitted from me vis a vis the 50-500, the 350D and various assorted.

Ultimately, if you don't want read loads of what do I buy stuff, then you make sure that there's loads of other stuff to read here, be it C&C, be it friday threads be it another nefarious plan which I have in mind and which I will post in a couple of nanoseconds. Variety being the spice of life, Admittedly a point and click is not a dSLR but Photoshop is Photoshop and digital photograph is expanding in scope. You can be sure that there will be people out there with little Ixi producing fantastic work between camera and computer and I'm not sure I want them to be thinking I'm an elitist cow cos they were shot down when they asked for advice.

My 2c worth.

deRanged

i've a suggestion.
I've just been trying to set out what I think are the important questions for someone to ask themselves when buying a camera. They're all generic and apply largely anyway, to
p&s up to [d]slr. What if we refine the list of questions and use them as a template - so when someone comes along they fill them in and then get pointed to dpreview or ask concrete questions?

I mean, put the 'buying guide' in a sticky, anyone who asks questions without filling in the
guide gets banned and the thread locked.
I think it'll take some fairly stern action, but at the same time you don't want to discourage people.

elven

That's pretty much what I'm thinking. If someone can't be bothered saying what they want from a camera, how are we meant to suggest what would be good for them?

Banning might be a bit severe for asking questions though, on first pass!

I think the sticky should involve a guide on how to identify your priorities and how to choose depending on those priorities. After that, it's up to them...

elven

Calina wrote:

another nefarious plan which I have in mind and which I will post in a couple of nanoseconds

I'm waiting Do tell!

nilhg

elven wrote:

I think the sticky should involve a guide on how to identify your priorities and how to choose depending on those priorities. After that, it's up to them...

A good project for the new mods?

And lock it, if people don't agree they can complain by PM, or, god forbid, a new thread.

leinsterman

Well I'm not so into the Nazi approach ... mostly because I think we should be encouraging newbies to join ... most of us got our start using some P&S digital ... so we all have to start soemwhere ... however we do need to provide some way to deal with it ... hence my suggestion of a gear sub-forum.

It has its pros and cons but it allows the regulars to choice of contributing or not without filling the main forum up with the same information over and over again.

I'm still in favour of it ... if it does not work then we can always stop it later ...

magicbastarder

just recommend the same camera every time, with a stock response.
and it should be a camera which doesn't exist, e.g. the Compus TR400.

Calina

that's nasty.

Kilree

Leinsterman makes eminent sense. I presume that everyone on the forum was a "noob" at some time and appreciated advice from wherever it came and none of us were born with our eye stuck in a viewfinder!!
I would have thought that the forum was a place for exchange of views and that relates to the "what camera" type of question. Newbies are not the only group who ask questions about gear as can be seen from the many posts from veterans regarding the latest costly piece of glass. Let's not become too elitist.

Morlar

Its really not about being elitist in my view.

elven

Well, there's a bit of a difference between the sub €200 point & shoot threads that come up over and over and over again, and the high end lens threads that are rather more specific. I think a lot of the regulars resent the laziness of some of the posts, when they ask which camera to buy but haven't attempted to do any research, or aren't prepared to try and see if there have been any recent threads on the same subject.

Unfortunately, this isn't a purely photography based forum, so we get people dropping in from all the other places asking about compact cameras for holiday snapshots, where they wouldn't necessarily bother registering for a photography only forum to ask the same kind of question, and it's just a fact of life round here. Maybe a subforum would be worth it for the sake of parking all those threads in, and maybe some people who are interested in that side of things would actually peruse/respond in there - even if not the 'regulars' (those non elitist ones of course) who usually contribute something different to the main forum.

Whatever happens, is going to require some amount of administrative overhead...

Spyral

what about tidying the "what camera should I get??" to something like this

What camera ?? -buying a camera the boards.ie way

Things to consider: usage, portability, zoom, quality and others

Usage - will you use the camera for happy holiday snaps, for candids to stick on your bebo, for serious arty photograpy, to use in a court of law or just to have handy ? With that in mind then consider size/portability

Do you need a compact ? Something small to carry in a handbag for example ? Do you need something with the option of changing lens's ?

If you are just taking candids or holiday snaps a cheap compact digital camera would most likely suit you something like the
Cannon PowerShot A60 4x optical zoom and 5 megapixels – perfect for on the go snaps and its about E150

Fujifilm Finepix A610 3x optical zoom but 6 megapixels – lesser zoom but you could blow up photos more – though consider how often you would intend to do that.. ~E120

Contrary to popular opinion more mega pixes does not mean better camera. A decent 3 megapixel camera can take a photo which can be enlarged at decent quality to A3 size. If you are printing 6”x4” photos then getting a 10 megapixel camera is a waste as the money spent on the megapixels could be spent on a camera with a better autofocus (if a compact) or lens (if an SLR)
(Additonally more megapixels equals larger photo file size which means less pictures can be stored on the cameras memory or memory card)

The lens and zoom is important. Digital zoom reduces quality by cropping a picture and blowing it up – all of which reduces quality. Rather look for optical zoom which works like the eye – if you want to see something smaller either you move closer or else you bring it closer ! Ditto with optical zoom – the lens moves out to magnify the image naturally – its like stepping closer with the camera but you aren't actually moving.

For cameras with a bigger zoom that look SLR like (aka “prosumer cameras” by some people) there are things like the Fujifilm Finepix S9600 s5700 10x optical zoom 7 megapixels. ~E225-250

This camera would meet most 'semi advanced' needs and could function as a learning camera for someone who wants to be able to take 'snaps' on the go but also would like to learn more about photography while not being too bogged down or wanting to spend lots of money until they knew it was right for them.

Additonally most 'prosumer' models don't have as much shutter lag (that is the amount of time delay between pushing the shutter and the picture actually getting taken) as compact cameras. If this is important to you look above compacts towards the higher end of the 'prosumer' level such as the Fujifilm Finepix S9600
which has a 10.7x optical zoom and sports 9 megapixels for all your enlarging needs. Although if you bought this it would not be for the megapixels but rather the other qualities such as the low lag, the zoom the quality of the camera.

And if that is still not enough for your needs then perhaps you need to look at a Digital SLR...

(that is if ye think its decent) which might stop a plethora of noob thread?

Muineach

How's about a separate thread for macro's, wide-angles shots, "standard", telephoto with links off to web sites we found that are good on the topic and the gear required for each ?

I've posted myself questions that were covered in previous threads but due to the fact that "search" doesn't really work, I've gone and posted another "how do I/What do I do.." threads that have people driven mad, would it be against the rules to tell people how to search boards.ie using a search engine ?

Eirebear

While i completely agree that the whole what camera thing gets a little boring from time to time, i dont think its really avoidable.

I've been at both ends of the scale on this one when asking about lenses etc for my DSLR and also when i was looking for a P&S to always have on me incase i get caught cold.

on all occasions i have found the advice to be extremely helpful and generally non-elitist.

Maybe we could have a reviews section, where people who have put certain cameras and lenses to the test come back and tell us what they think of them?

Muineach

slightly off topic:
was I the only one who thought that someone have problems with the threading on a filter ?