Don`t feel "saved"

NovemberStar

Was wondering if someone can offer some insight...

I`ve recently decided to return to Christianity after about 6years. Over those years I must have broken every single rule in the bible, seriously.

The problem is that since deciding to become Christian, I still dont feel it in my heart. I know I should but I dont.

Ive prayed for forgiveness and keep asking for my faith to return but it still hasn`t.

Most people describe a feeling /moment of being "saved", but I havent felt that. And although Im trying to live as a Christian, my faith still appears to be gone.

So aside from praying for it`s return and asking forgivness what more can I do?

Maybe it`s just too late or maybe Jesus no longer wants me?

Is there any way of knowing really?

NovemberStar

bubonicus

If you want to feel saved, I would take the Withnail & I comment out of your sig.

You must be doomed if you watch movies of that ilk.

NovemberStar

Withnail and I happens to be one of my favourite films.............
"I must have some booze , I demand to have some BOOZE!! It`s the only sollution to this intense cold!"

bubonicus

and cake:D

Spyral

If you're a catholic (even non practising) go to confession.

It sounds rediculous but its the most loving forgiving sacrament there is. talk to the priest there. sort it out.

kelly1

NovemberStar wrote:

Was wondering if someone can offer some insight...

I`ve recently decided to return to Christianity after about 6years. Over those years I must have broken every single rule in the bible, seriously.

The problem is that since deciding to become Christian, I still dont feel it in my heart. I know I should but I dont.

Ive prayed for forgiveness and keep asking for my faith to return but it still hasn`t.

Most people describe a feeling /moment of being "saved", but I havent felt that. And although Im trying to live as a Christian, my faith still appears to be gone.

So aside from praying for it`s return and asking forgivness what more can I do?

Maybe it`s just too late or maybe Jesus no longer wants me?

Is there any way of knowing really?

NovemberStar

Hello NS, don't EVER think for a moment that Jesus doesn't want you! He died for you and I'm sure He would do it all over again just to save you alone.

One thing I've learned over the years is that perseverance pays in the end. God alone know's what's best for us and when it's best for us. So try to believe that God has everything under control and trust in Him who is our Loving Father. Have you read and meditated on the parable of the Prodigal Son?

The Holy Spirit is clearly at work in you soul because you want to bring Christ back in to your life. Jesus is always ready and waiting with open arms to forgive you. Always trust in His mercy which know no bounds.

It would be helpful to know your religious background.

This may be unpalatable to the protestants here, but if you really want to be certain that your sins are forgiven become Catholic, if you aren't already, and go to confession and have the Holy Spirit breathe new supernatural life into your soul. Then unite yourself totally with Jesus by receiving His body and blood in the sacrament of Holy Communion. Jesus wants to give Himself totally to you in return for your love for Him.

God bless,
Noel.

Run_to_da_hills

If you are willing to repent and turn back God will be faithful . "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness". 1 John 1:9 Also read the parable of the lost sheep, Luke 15:3-7.

Excelsior

1. Whitnail and I? Never saw the attraction myself.

2. I didn't feel euphoric when I was "saved". In fact, I don't think there was a moment when I was "saved". I think that happened over a period of time. I think it is still happening. So my first serious point is to ask you to remember that God was at work in your life, is at work in your life and will be at work in your life. Faith is a life-long journey of walking more in step with God so the six years you were away are no less a part of the beautiful fabric than today is. As Noel has said, Jesus is not tired of you. He has gone great lengths to win you back and he is not about to let you go.

3. In Galatians 4 we are given this cool parallelism. Jesus the Son is sent into the world to redeem us so we can be adopted as God's children. The Spirit of God is sent into our hearts to give us the knowledge of that adoption, so that we can truly cry out to God, "Abba! Father!"

So as you struggle with your feelings, don't ignore that but instead focus on the objective truth that Jesus secured your Sonship for you and pray out to God that he might give you the subjective truth that the Holy Spirit assures you of your Sonship.

Its not a ritual, its not a 5-step guide to success, but I think by contemplating and praying about this 2-fold action that has taken place in your life, you will begin to see your sense of God return.

I hope this helps. Keep us informed as to how you get on!

Bottle_of_Smoke

Is it at all possible you don't believe in Jesus? You possibly really want to but you have to remember you can't "make" yourself believe anything, otherwise it's only make-believe.

PLenty of religious folk don't believe Jesus was the Son of God but still believe in God, have you tried reading into any other religions? Maybe check out some of the stickies on the Islam forum. Would suggest the other ones too but Islam's the most similar to Christianity.

Agent J

NovemberStar wrote:

I`ve recently decided to return to Christianity after about 6years. Over those years I must have broken every single rule in the bible, seriously.

Wouldn't worry too much about that. Ever actually read the thing?
One word. Levitiucus.

NovemberStar wrote:

The problem is that since deciding to become Christian, I still dont feel it in my heart. I know I should but I dont.

Well,

Do you want to be Christian because its probably the most well know religion you are aware of?

Before you decided to return did you do any research on other faiths and decide to return because they didn't suit? You may have to accept the possibilty that Christianity isnt for you.

You cannot force yourself to accept a religion if you dont not accept it in your heart.

On the Flipside.

Please i dont mean to sound harsh, im just trying to stimulate thought.

And i apologise to the estate of JFK for theft...

Dont ask what your religion can do for you, Ask what you can do for your religion.

What have you done about it? have you gotten involved at a local level with a Church and its activities? How about some charitable works with said church? Talked one on one with other people about it?

I would know of Christians who would argue that simplying going to mass and not getting involved isn't enough for them. They have to get involved with the people of their church and their area and do things. Not nesscarily because they believe in the good works arguement but because they want to.

kelly1

NovemberStar wrote:

Most people describe a feeling /moment of being "saved", but I havent felt that.

BTW, being saved isn't a one-time event. Nobody knows who's saved until you die and face judgement. Salvation is more than faith in Jesus Christ. It's about doing God's will:

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Phil 2:12 with fear and trembling work out your salvation.

And please, for God's sake, ignore the last post by Bottle_of_Smoke!
Salvation is from Jesus Christ, through His Church.

God bless,
Noel.

Spyral

I agree with kelly1

but remember not everyone who says "lord lord" will be saved etc. Its like if you go around proclaiming that you love God etc and are saved but you dont actually do anything.. those people are in for a hard time

but If you genuinely try even if you are 'poor in spirit' then you will get there (the shepard referece about looking for lost sheep comes in here ;D)

keano_afc

Kelly1, I'm not protestant but I disagree with you original comments (I've only just come across this thread). First of all, the bible does of course encourage confession of sins, but to JESUS alone (2Tim 2:5 confirms this). Confessing sins to a priest (a sinner also, Rom 3:23 confirms) does no good. I'm not here to knock Catholicism, but the system of confession is biblically wrong. To November Star, perhaps these verses will help. Psalm 42:5, Psalm 34, and Hebrews 11. The road to Christ is not an easy one, I'll be praying for you. God bless.

philologos

To the OP, I really recommend reading the Bible or trying to read it section by section over a period of time. I decided to do this a few months ago, really helps you to see how you can relate to God. I think so anyway.

kelly1

keano_afc wrote:

Kelly1, I'm not protestant but I disagree with you original comments (I've only just come across this thread). First of all, the bible does of course encourage confession of sins, but to JESUS alone (2Tim 2:5 confirms this). Confessing sins to a priest (a sinner also, Rom 3:23 confirms) does no good. I'm not here to knock Catholicism, but the system of confession is biblically wrong. To November Star, perhaps these verses will help. Psalm 42:5, Psalm 34, and Hebrews 11. The road to Christ is not an easy one, I'll be praying for you. God bless.

Maybe you need to have another look at your bible:

John 20:22 When he had said this, he breathed on them [Apostles]; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

Matthew 18:18 Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.

2 Cor 2:10 And to whom you have pardoned any thing, I also. For, what I have pardoned, if I have pardoned any thing, for your sakes have I done it in the person of Christ.

2 Cor 5:18 But all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Christ; and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation.

God bless,
Noel.

Spyral

I agree with kelly1 as it is biblically supported and the church has been around for 2000 years teaching the same, correct, doctrines all the while.

keano_afc

I left a word out of my original post. What I meant to say was that the Catholic system of confession is wrong, which is supported doctrinally by the verse in Second Timothy. Sorry for the confusion. Of course the bible teaches confession of sin, but as it is written, to Christ alone.

Spyral

keno you obviously have no idea that the Catholic Church put the bible together and that none of its doctrines contradict the bible. I would suggest you look at catholic.com

keano_afc

Well here's 2 spyral, just for starters. Please feel free to give me biblical reference for transsubstantiation and purgatory. Oh, and while you're at it, explain to me your interpretation of the following verses: Matt 23:9, Ex 20:4, Rom 10:9, John 3:7 and Heb 10:12. I look forward to your reply.

Tim Robbins

Hi All,
I am atheist but am interested in the discussion about confession and would like to add a comment.
Is it not James that suggests confession?

James 5:16 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

16Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

Regards,
Mr. Robbins.

keano_afc

I agree with you Mr. Robbins. However, confessing our faults to one another does not mean our sins are forgiven. Only confession to Christ guarantees this.

Run_to_da_hills

Tim Robbins wrote:

Hi All,
I am atheist but am interested in the discussion about confession and would like to add a comment.
Is it not James that suggests confession?

James 5:16 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

16Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

Regards,
Mr. Robbins.

There is no mention of a mediator such as an "a priest" in this passage. Confessing faults to one another would be simply meant discussing your weaknesses and downfalls as Christians before making a solemn confession to God. I would confess my sins directly to Jesus on my own in private.

a5y

NovemberStar wrote:

Was wondering if someone can offer some insight...

I`ve recently decided to return to Christianity after about 6years. Over those years I must have broken every single rule in the bible, seriously.

The problem is that since deciding to become Christian, I still dont feel it in my heart. I know I should but I dont.

Ive prayed for forgiveness and keep asking for my faith to return but it still hasn`t.

Most people describe a feeling /moment of being "saved", but I havent felt that. And although Im trying to live as a Christian, my faith still appears to be gone.

So aside from praying for it`s return and asking forgivness what more can I do?

Maybe it`s just too late or maybe Jesus no longer wants me?

Is there any way of knowing really?

NovemberStar

Maybe Scientology is the answer?

keano_afc

Run_to_da_hills wrote:

There is no mention of a mediator such as a "a priest" in this passage. Confessing faullts to one another would be simply mean discussing your weaknesses and downfalls as Christians before makeing a confession to God. I would confess my sins directly to Jesus on my own in private.

Amen

Talliesin

Excelsior wrote:

1. Whitnail and I? Never saw the attraction myself.

Ah, great film. "Do not try this at home" though.

Excelsior wrote:

Its not a ritual, its not a 5-step guide to success

QFT.

Walk, don't run, from anyone who says that their path offers an instance solution to everything. That way leads to fraud, abuse, and cyanide-laced kool-aid.

There can certainly be moments of instance euphoria, satori, illumination, ecstasy etc. in a lot of different people's experiences of a lot of different religions, but the Christians I know are living real lives with real stuff to deal with the same as the rest of us. They don't claim otherwise either.

Tim Robbins wrote:

Hi All,
I am atheist but am interested in the discussion about confession and would like to add a comment.
Is it not James that suggests confession?

You might find the Irish tradition of the anamchara ("soul-friend") interesting (I won't bother to try to define just what that was - the various different opinions on it is one of the things you might find interesting, but it seems that people would confess to ones anamchara but it wasn't a priestly function).

kelly1

keano_afc wrote:

I left a word out of my original post. What I meant to say was that the Catholic system of confession is wrong, which is supported doctrinally by the verse in Second Timothy. Sorry for the confusion. Of course the bible teaches confession of sin, but as it is written, to Christ alone.

Keano, it's clear from John 20:22-23 that Jesus gave His Apostles the authority to forgive sin. Now if sins were meant only to be confessed to God, why would Jesus grant the power to forgive sins to the Apostles?

And what do you understand the following verse to mean?

2 Cor 5:18 But all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Christ; and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation.

God bless,
Noel.

Spyral

no mention of 'Trinity' either..

There is no mention of a mediator such as an "a priest" in this passage. Confessing faults to one another would be simply meant discussing your weaknesses and downfalls as Christians before making a solemn confession to God. I would confess my sins directly to Jesus on my own in private.

..yet many 'Bible only Chrisitans' believe in it..

Run_to_da_hills

Spyral wrote:

no mention of 'Trinity' either..



..yet many 'Bible only Chrisitans' believe in it..

From my understanding the teaching of the “Trinity” became formalized in the Roman Catholic Church in the year 325 C.E. by the Creed of the Council of Nicaea. It may have had its roots before that however the word “trinity” has been inherited into nearly all the Christian denominations to this day.

There is no verse in the Bible that says "God is a Trinity." This is all quite evident and true, strictly speaking, but it proves nothing. There are many words and phrases that Christians use, which are not found in the Bible such as the word “Bible" itself.

The New Testament does bring God (Father), the Son (Jesus Christ) and the Holy Spirit together in such a way as to strongly imply the Trinitarian nature of God such as listed below. One Scripture is from the Gospels, another is from the apostle Paul and a third is from the apostle Peter. The words in each passage referring to each of the three Persons are marked in italics to emphasize their Trinitarian implication:

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: [Matthew 28:19].

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen. [2 Corinthians 13:14].

To God’s elect. who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood [1 Peter 1:1-2

Spyral

then your argument about confessing to priests not being in the bible is irrelevant as it explicitly states to confess sins to one another and Jesus explicitly states that the apostles have the powers to forgive sins.

Yet there is no explicit mention of the trinity.

Therefore you are simply picking and choosing the bits you want to believe in

Run_to_da_hills

Spyral wrote:

then your argument about confessing to priests not being in the bible is irrelevant as it explicitly states to confess sins to one another and Jesus explicitly states that the apostles have the powers to forgive sins.

Yet there is no explicit mention of the trinity.

Therefore you are simply picking and choosing the bits you want to believe in

To claim that Jesus gave the Apostles the power to forgive sin is blasphemy. It is very clearly stated that there is only ONE MEDIATOR between God the Father and men, the man Christ Jesus (1st Timothy 2:5). We've also read in Mathew 6:15 that God requires US to forgive OTHERS, "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you" (Mathew 6:15) it's not an option. In addition, not one mention is made anywhere in the New Testament of an Apostle ever forgiving someone's sins.

keano_afc

kelly1 wrote:

Keano, it's clear from John 20:22-23 that Jesus gave His Apostles the authority to forgive sin. Now if sins were meant only to be confessed to God, why would Jesus grant the power to forgive sins to the Apostles?

And what do you understand the following verse to mean?

2 Cor 5:18 But all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Christ; and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation.

God bless,
Noel.

I'm afraid that's bordering on heresy kelly1. Christ died to save us from sin, and saying the apostles had power to forgive sin completely demeams his death. How can you believe anyone other than Christ can forgive sin???? I say again, 1Timothy 2:5 says there is ONE MEDIATOR between man and God, who is Christ Jesus.

kelly1

keano_afc wrote:

I'm afraid that's bordering on heresy kelly1. Christ died to save us from sin, and saying the apostles had power to forgive sin completely demeams his death. How can you believe anyone other than Christ can forgive sin???? I say again, 1Timothy 2:5 says there is ONE MEDIATOR between man and God, who is Christ Jesus.

No, not at all. In fact you're denying the words of Christ when He said "whose sins you forgive, they are forgiven them". Mediator in 1 Tim 2:5 refers to Christ's mediation of redemption.

1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus: 6 Who gave himself a redemption for all

It was Christ's passion and death which allowed priests to forgive sins!

You can't pick one verse that suits your agenda and ignore the others...

PDN

Spyral wrote:

then your argument about confessing to priests not being in the bible is irrelevant as it explicitly states to confess sins to one another and Jesus explicitly states that the apostles have the powers to forgive sins.

The problem with trying to apply the passage in James 5:16 to the Catholic practice of confession is that the words "to one another" would appear to refer to a two-way confession, rather than the one-way stuff that occurs in the confessional booth.

Therefore, to justify the use of James 5:16, confession would have to be more along the following lines:

"Forgive me, Father, for I have sinned. I am constantly tormented by lustful thoughts."

"I known, my son, I suffer from the same problem myself. What works for you?"

"Well, Father, I find going for a good long walk helps."

"OK, my son, I'll try that once I've finished hearing all these confessions. Now, do you ever get tempted to run out of the Chinese restaurant without paying for your meal? I did it only last weak."

"Really, Father? No, I can't say that's one of my temptations, but I do the bit of shoplifting at Tesco, myself."

etc.

keano_afc

kelly1 wrote:

No, not at all. In fact you're denying the words of Christ when He said "whose sins you forgive, they are forgiven them". Mediator in 1 Tim 2:5 refers to Christ's mediation of redemption.

I would never deny the words of Christ. Just because I forgive someone who has sinned against me does that mean the sin is forgiven before Christ? No, of course not. By that logic all we would have to is confess sin to each other and there would be no need for Christ at all. By following that rationale you have eliminated Christ's death as neccessary for the forgiveness of sin. Its frustrating that you cant seem to grasp this very basic trait of Christianity.

kelly1 wrote:

It was Christ's passion and death which allowed priests to forgive sins!

So your basically saying that Christ's death is not enough to forgive sin, it merely enpowers others to do so on His behalf?

Spyral

to have your sins forgiven through God you must let him as we have free will. Simply saying "oh im sorry God for last nights murder rape session and tomorrows one aswell" is no good.
One must confess thier sins and ask through the appropraite channels (eg the apostles who were given the power to forgive sins THROUGH Jesus)

keano_afc

Spyral wrote:

to have your sins forgiven through God you must let him as we have free will. Simply saying "oh im sorry God for last nights murder rape session and tomorrows one aswell" is no good.
One must confess thier sins and ask through the appropraite channels (eg the apostles who were given the power to forgive sins THROUGH Jesus)

John 14:6 "I am the way the truth and the life. No man comes to the father but THROUGH ME.

Appropriate channels???

kelly1

keano_afc wrote:

I would never deny the words of Christ. Just because I forgive someone who has sinned against me does that mean the sin is forgiven before Christ? No, of course not. By that logic all we would have to is confess sin to each other and there would be no need for Christ at all. By following that rationale you have eliminated Christ's death as neccessary for the forgiveness of sin. Its frustrating that you cant seem to grasp this very basic trait of Christianity.

John 20:22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

Keano, the words above were spoken to the Apostles, not to the general public. Remember, this was just after Christ's resurrection and Jesus appeared in the room where the Apostles had locked themselves (for fear of the Jews). He gave them the authority to forgive sins in His name.

God bless,
Noel.

philologos

kelly1: What do you feel the other church that were around at the same time as the RC was. It's historical fact that there was a struggle for dominance between Eastern Gnosticism and Western Catholicism. The Gnostics had contact with the Apostles as well.

kelly1

Jakkass wrote:

kelly1: What do you feel the other church that were around at the same time as the RC was. It's historical fact that there was a struggle for dominance between Eastern Gnosticism and Western Catholicism. The Gnostics had contact with the Apostles as well.

I don't see how Gnosticism is relevant to the discussion. They were heretics who denied the truths revealed by Christ through the Apostles. They believed, for instance, that God didn't create the world.

PDN

Jakkass wrote:

kelly1: What do you feel the other church that were around at the same time as the RC was. It's historical fact that there was a struggle for dominance between Eastern Gnosticism and Western Catholicism. The Gnostics had contact with the Apostles as well.

The 'struggle' between Western Catholicism and Gnosticism was more a case of annoying heresies leading a few people astray. There was never any serious possibility of Gnosticism becoming dominant. Of course this struggle occurred long after the first apostles were all dead, there being no such entity as Roman Catholicism until several generations after Christ.

Far more important than Gnosticism are other varieties of Christianity that developed from the early Church - such as Orthodox, Coptic & Nestorian churches.

kelly1

PDN wrote:

...there being no such entity as Roman Catholicism until several generations after Christ.

PDN, the official name of the Church under Pope Benedict is the "Catholic Church", not the "Roman Catholic Church" which is a term which I believe was first used by Anglicans. The term Catholic seems to have come into use around the time of Iraneus circa 107AD. The Church has always been universal.

Matthew 28:19 Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.

God bless,
Noel.

keano_afc

kelly1 wrote:

Keano, the words above were spoken to the Apostles, not to the general public. Remember, this was just after Christ's resurrection and Jesus appeared in the room where the Apostles had locked themselves (for fear of the Jews). He gave them the authority to forgive sins in His name.

God bless,
Noel.

John 20:22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

There are 3 important words missing in this verse for your point of view to be acceptable. If it said "whose sins you shall forgive IN MY NAME" then yes, the apostles and indeed all of us would have the power to forgive sin. But I would interpret this verse as having the same sentiments as "forgive those who trespass against you." We can forgive others of sin committed AGAINST US, but not on behalf of God. One must confess sin to Him alone for it to be forgiven by Him.

kelly1

keano_afc wrote:

John 20:22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

There are 3 important words missing in this verse for your point of view to be acceptable. If it said "whose sins you shall forgive IN MY NAME" then yes, the apostles and indeed all of us would have the power to forgive sin. But I would interpret this verse as having the same sentiments as "forgive those who trespass against you." We can forgive others of sin committed AGAINST US, but not on behalf of God. One must confess sin to Him alone for it to be forgiven by Him.

Fine, have it your own way.

keano_afc

kelly1 wrote:

Fine, have it your own way.

Well, I think you'll find that's the bible's way, not mine.

Spyral

actually it is your way as you are relying on your own interpretations and ignoring the fact Confession is explicitly stated in the bible. Addionally it is just arrogance to assume you know better than the Church which has existed for 2000 years..

keano_afc

Spyral wrote:

actually it is your way as you are relying on your own interpretations and ignoring the fact Confession is explicitly stated in the bible. Addionally it is just arrogance to assume you know better than the Church which has existed for 2000 years..

I'll stick with the bible if thats ok with you, its been around a lot longer. I have never denied confession is mentioned in the bible. For example 1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he (God) is fatihful and just to forgive us our sins, and cleanse us from all unrighteousness". All I am trying to say is that if we sin before God, we confess before God. Its just that simple. If you're happy to go into a booth and confess your sins before a fellow sinner good luck to you. I believe in kneeling before God to confess my sin. Am I wrong?

philologos

keano_afc wrote:

I'll stick with the bible if thats ok with you, its been around a lot longer. I have never denied confession is mentioned in the bible. For example 1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he (God) is fatihful and just to forgive us our sins, and cleanse us from all unrighteousness". All I am trying to say is that if we sin before God, we confess before God. Its just that simple. If you're happy to go into a booth and confess your sins before a fellow sinner good luck to you. I believe in kneeling before God to confess my sin. Am I wrong?

I believe the simple answer is no keano it's perfectly reasonable and logical. However there is nothing wrong with repenting to a member of the ministry if you so wish.

Spyral

I'll stick with the bible if thats ok with you, its been around a lot longer.

er no it hasn't actually ......

admiralofthefleet

Spyral wrote:

er no it hasn't actually ......

huh?
catholic [church?] = 2000 years , old testament = pre 2000 years (bc)

Spyral

if you think the old testament was in a large slab like it is now then you are sadly mistaken. The bible as you know it today was complied by the catholic church. Additionally we are not jews, the new testament is a bit more important than the old

PDN

Spyral wrote:

if you think the old testament was in a large slab like it is now then you are sadly mistaken. The bible as you know it today was complied by the catholic church. Additionally we are not jews, the new testament is a bit more important than the old

No, of course it was not in a large slab, it consisted of a number of scrolls. But those scrolls comprised what we now recognise to be the 39 books of the Old Testament.

Some Jews, outside of Palestine, used the Septuagint - a Greek translation that had some extra apocryphal books added to it - but we know that Jesus used the Hebrew version of the Scriptures because he talked about a 'jot' and a 'tittle' (Hebrew punctuation) in Matthew 5:18.

The 39 books of the Old Testament were compiled by Judaism and were in use at the time of Jesus and so were adopted by the Christian Church.